building an alloy plenum
Posts
Post 779825 by t5 pete on 2015-07-31 15:55:47
Since seeing Rob's thread on his plenum it's gave me the itch to start sourcing parts for the 240 first off tho I understand you need to get the volume of the chamber to the same or above the ltr of the engine? and runners regarding length I've searched the net but not come up with any decent info or at least any in layman's terms just a shot are sweet answer.
The ltr of the engine is 2.3 looking at other plenums people just seem to make them to any size some 2ltr engines have huge chambers then others like cosworth tiny ones.
Any Info would be much appreciated
Post 779826 by claymore on 2015-07-31 16:11:09
Short runners will give you more at the top end, like mine, long runners will give you more bottom end torque.
Post 779827 by LiamT4 on 2015-07-31 16:26:37
[QUOTE=claymore;779826]Short runners will give you more at the top end, like mine, long runners will give you more bottom end torque.[/QUOTE]
It says the opposite on this site Colin (near the middle of the page)
http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/tech-feature-custom-racing-intake-manifolds/
Post 779829 by t5 pete on 2015-07-31 16:32:07
Lol this is the problem there's just so much conflicting info but most I've read it that longer runners give more low and mid range tourque and short runner higher top end power read a really good article from jaguar designing their manifold which said what I've just wrote.
Post 779831 by LiamT4 on 2015-07-31 16:45:18
I've found plenty of info on a site called physicsforums.......................too much though lol
Post 779832 by t5 pete on 2015-07-31 16:55:02
Mine field or what I'm currently looking at a plenum of 3.5 ltrs then just need to source some bell mouths
Post 779834 by jamesy12345 on 2015-07-31 17:12:01
A bit of basic BS here fella
http://www.sdsefi.com/techinta.htm
"Short runners are good for high rpm torque as in a racing situation. Long runners are more applicable for street use at lower rpms."
as Colin said
Post 779835 by claymore on 2015-07-31 17:15:00
Mine wouldn't rev to 9000rpm on the standard manifold, but with my manifold it has an extra power band from 7000 to 9000 rpm, you can here it on some of the incar footage at prescott
Post 779836 by claymore on 2015-07-31 17:17:30
standard 850 t5 manifold looks quite short runners, but when you unfold then (virtually) they're quite long
Post 779837 by smithy on 2015-07-31 17:32:06
Short runners more top end long runners more bottom end
Post 779847 by classicswede on 2015-07-31 19:17:40
To a fair extent you want to match teh runner length to the cam. As short cam wants long runners and a longer duration cam will normally want long runners. The engine stroke length also has an effect on what length runners are going to be more ideal. The space available in the engine bay is going to be your biggest restrication and limitation.
I have not seen any side by side comparisions for the Volvo engine with different legth runners not even on Swedish sites
Post 779849 by stribo on 2015-07-31 19:35:32
My Cougar, well all Cougar and Mondeo V6s had different length inlets on the manifold, at up to 4500 rpm, only the long pipes were open, after 4500 rpm butterflies in the manifold opened the short ones as well. Take from that what you will, but I tied the butterflies open, so it was running both all the time, I also had the quickest Cougar from 0-60 on the forum. :D
Post 779883 by MoleT-5R on 2015-08-01 05:02:14
[QUOTE=claymore;779836]standard 850 t5 manifold looks quite short runners, but when you unfold then (virtually) they're quite long[/QUOTE]
so the later p1 v70 onwards (me7) manifolds should give gains at top end then as they look to have shorter runners compared to the older style 850 type
Post 779938 by oblark on 2015-08-01 16:17:42
[QUOTE=MoleT-5R;779883]so the later p1 v70 onwards (me7) manifolds should give gains at top end then as they look to have shorter runners compared to the older style 850 type[/QUOTE]
The ME7 inlet manifold is one of the worse manifolds to use, the plenum chamber is to small, the air has to travel in two directions and not all the runners are straight. I've only found this out after doing research for my plenum chamber.
Post 779946 by t5 pete on 2015-08-01 17:14:33
[QUOTE=oblark;779938]The ME7 inlet manifold is one of the worse manifolds to use, the plenum chamber is to small, the air has to travel in two directions and not all the runners are straight. I've only found this out after doing research for my plenum chamber.
[/QUOTE]
Did you work on any theroy regarding the size of your chamber or was it just a case make it to fit and then you worked out the ltr
Post 779949 by 960kg on 2015-08-01 18:58:28
[QUOTE=LiamT4;779827]It says the opposite on this site Colin (near the middle of the page)
http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/tech-feature-custom-racing-intake-manifolds/[/QUOTE]
This LINK is great reading and is correct to all my knowledge of tuning manifolds!
[QUOTE=claymore;779835]Mine wouldn't rev to 9000rpm on the standard manifold, but with my manifold it has an extra power band from 7000 to 9000 rpm, you can here it on some of the incar footage at prescott[/QUOTE]
For you to make this statement about being opposite to the correct length of runner you must of altered something else at the same time and not only the manifold to make it run better!
[QUOTE=classicswede;779847]To a fair extent you want to match teh runner length to the cam. As short cam wants long runners and a longer duration cam will normally want long runners. The engine stroke length also has an effect on what length runners are going to be more ideal. The space available in the engine bay is going to be your biggest restrication and limitation.
I have not seen any side by side comparisions for the Volvo engine with different legth runners not even on Swedish sites[/QUOTE]
This members logic is the correct one as other things effect the runner length for performance.
The cam timing has to be altered to suit a particular length of runner so as not to give bogging down performance.
Ok so look at the first pic. a standard T5 manifold ......in anybody`s terms those are Long runners which is partly why the motor does a fast 150mph.
Now look at the second pic. as it`s an ME7 manifold and has already said the design to some is crap .....so why does the later T5 still do a fast 150mph?
Simples:... `cos it has VVT which alters the cam timing to suit the manifold.
You can all go around in circles all day wandering which is best but until you understand the logic no where will be arrived at...only posts saying opposite to others answers!
Post 779951 by t5 pete on 2015-08-01 19:27:44
[QUOTE=960kg;779949]This LINK is great reading and is correct to all my knowledge of tuning manifolds!
For you to make this statement about being opposite to the correct length of runner you must of altered something else at the same time and not only the manifold to make it run better!
This members logic is the correct one as other things effect the runner length for performance.
The cam timing has to be altered to suit a particular length of runner so as not to give bogging down performance.
Ok so look at the first pic. a standard T5 manifold ......in anybody`s terms those are Long runners which is partly why the motor does a fast 150mph.
Now look at the second pic. as it`s an ME7 manifold and has already said the design to some is crap .....so why does the later T5 still do a fast 150mph?
Simples:... `cos it has VVT which alters the cam timing to suit the manifold.
You can all go around in circles all day wandering which is best but until you understand the logic no where will be arrived at...only posts saying opposite to others answers![/QUOTE]
In regards to the last comment regarding understanding the logic do you understand the logic and a principle of what is needed regarding building the plenum as I do not know and would like to.
I would roughly estimate 80 to 90 percent of what I have read stated that the longer runner give the better low down power and tourque.
If you do have good knoledge on this I would be great full if you can expand on it and info on what is needed regarding volume and length.
Post 779955 by 960kg on 2015-08-01 19:43:41
[QUOTE=t5 pete;779951]In regards to the last comment regarding understanding the logic do you understand the logic and a principle of what is needed regarding building the plenum as I do not know and would like to.
I would roughly estimate 80 to 90 percent of what I have read stated that the longer runner give the better low down power and tourque.
If you do have good knoledge on this I would be great full if you can expand on it and info on what is needed regarding volume and length.[/QUOTE]
Because these type of threads turn into real arguments and abuse the best thing to do is read this link about Husseins motor. Somewhere around page 60 to 70 he goes into detail why he fitted and why he removed it and also mentions altering the cam timing when he removed it back to his normal!
Smithys shape plenum is the ideal on Oblarks thread so have a look....i cannot say actual lengths but can only say that the homework has already been done these others because of the room available between engine and the slam panel.
I have copied my post over to here so i don`t have to rewrite and this explains the difference and why the length of the runners matter:
[I]I think it is good to have varying discussion so why remove posts as they are still to do with Plenums on performance motors as this is what this forum is about!
There are not many that have been there with actual tuning methods and my apprenticeship was at Brands in the `60`s, as i have said before whatever is useful to an N/A engine also useful for the turbo as it is all about airflow....whether boosted or not.
The plenum has to be tapered at the furthest end so to equalise more or give the last cylinder in line a chance of the same air pressure as the forced or ambient air is pushed up the plenum it will still compress at the narrow end more that at the larger end and so will cover the space quicker to the last cylinder to balance out the amount to each cylinder.
You can see the bolt up line on that Cosworth engine Plenum as that too is tapered inside but is rectangular outside. The inside technology is the important thing.
We used to call them inlet trumpets but the but the later term seems to be "runners" which the ends of (bellmouth) inside the plenum should still be tuned because of the vortices around them.......the longer they are the higher top speed because when the air enters the runner the air waves accelerate faster down a longer tube and the higher the speed of the air will be when entering the combustible space thus packing more charge for a higher top speed.
With shorter runners the opposite is the effect as the charge will then be slower down the tubes but as the boost is nearer the combustion chamber the motor will accelerate quicker as it gets it`s charge quicker.
One thing on the turbo motor will be where to put exactly the boost vacuum pipe for best performance as even though the boost supplied may be 15psi but in the plenum it will vary because of it`s shape and delivery?
Of course this is not the all and be all as the cam timing amongst others effects things also but then as you know this is why some other motors are faster as they have done there homework!
Just trying to help and not hinder...Lol[/I]
One thing that has been overlooked is the fact that the runners MUST be tuned on the end of them as a bellmouth is on a carb. for example. The air around these runners causes vortices which must be the correct shape and flow etc. to travel down the runner.
If still not understanding why the length of runners just think why did motorbike companies bolt the carb directly on the barrel .....it was to give max. acceleration while the larger cubic capacity gave the power for top speed.
Post 779956 by claymore on 2015-08-01 20:04:52
I can certainly find just as much info that contradicts the above post, I calculated my plenum capacity to be 2.6ltrs which as far as I'm concerned works for me, I was deliberately tuning for low torque to protect the rods, but I don't really know what I'm doing, I've never won any races or rallies in the 30 years I've built and raced cars.
Post 779959 by t5 pete on 2015-08-01 20:19:50
Thank you for that im just currently reading his thread it is very interesting one thing he did point out it the improvement of low end power on the stock manifold and then felt it was running out of steam high up well to quote
Makes sense, for you, with the shorter runners you'd be losing bottom end. There is no doubt the stock runners, which are around 13", are useless for good top end breathing. I felt an immediate difference the first time I put it on. Finally have all the welding & port issues resolved, so I'm looking forward to getting mine back on the car.
Ill shortly put a picture up of the plenum im looking at as I do like the design and being cast not so prone to cracks as Hussein had problems with his plate design.
Post 779962 by claymore on 2015-08-01 20:41:33
Without reading all that, I don't think it's as critical on a turbo engine as a N/A, I'm assuming that document relates to N/A engines?
Post 779963 by t5 pete on 2015-08-01 20:43:50
Post 779965 by t5 pete on 2015-08-01 20:45:02
[QUOTE=claymore;779962]Without reading all that, I don't think it's as critical on a turbo engine as a N/A, I'm assuming that document relates to N/A engines?[/QUOTE]
TBH I haven't started to read it but yes I would have thought so I will be going with bellmouths in the plenum tho
Post 779971 by claymore on 2015-08-01 21:00:02
I think that casting will work fine, I'm using a late V50 manifold for the base of my new one, the runners are really short and just unbolt from the Plenum, interestingly there are no bellmouths on them.
Post 779974 by LiamT4 on 2015-08-01 21:03:44
[QUOTE=claymore;779962]Without reading all that, I don't think it's as critical on a turbo engine as a N/A, I'm assuming that document relates to N/A engines?[/QUOTE]
A couple of quick quotes from the site i posted a link to
"Application differences.
A key player in manifold design is whether an engine is naturally aspirated, or uses some form of forced induction.
Naturally Aspirated
Naturally aspirated engines tend to be far more sensitive to the smallest design changes than forced induction applications.
Forced induction.
Forced induction manifolds tend to be more forgiving than naturally aspirated manifolds in terms of their tolerance to design change. Boost pressure filling the manifold plenum typically keeps the engine well fed from the time it leaves the starting line until it shuts down."
Post 779978 by LiamT4 on 2015-08-01 21:13:19
As we know, what works for N/A doesn't automatically mean it will be beneficial for forced induction and vice versa.
Post 779979 by t5 pete on 2015-08-01 21:17:32
[QUOTE=claymore;779971]I think that casting will work fine, I'm using a late V50 manifold for the base of my new one, the runners are really short and just unbolt from the Plenum, interestingly there are no bellmouths on them.[/QUOTE]
That is true none of the original have them but from what I have seen from builders they tent to use bellmouths
Post 779981 by claymore on 2015-08-01 21:22:38
Yea, I'll be doing the same as last time and run a bead of weld around the inside then shape it.
Post 779982 by 960kg on 2015-08-01 21:28:11
[QUOTE=t5 pete;779979]That is true none of the original have them but from what I have seen from builders they tent to use bellmouths[/QUOTE]
As you can see it is all logic manufacturers don't need the ultimate but the tuner or builder does.
Airflow is airflow no matter where it comes from!
Post 779983 by t5 pete on 2015-08-01 21:28:43
What do you use to weld colin tig or oxy acetylene
Post 779984 by claymore on 2015-08-01 21:31:24
Tig mate
Post 779985 by LiamT4 on 2015-08-01 21:36:13
[QUOTE=960kg;779982]As you can see it is all logic manufacturers don't need the ultimate but the tuner or builder does.
Airflow is airflow no matter where it comes from![/QUOTE]
Why do you use the exclamation mark so much! Its as though you're shouting all the time!
You do realise that there are differences in the way N/A and forced induction work? It does expalain a little on that link i posted, which you agree'd with.
Post 779989 by classicswede on 2015-08-01 23:17:52
To answer the runner length to best power band here is a rule of thumb for runners
1. / One Formula: David Vizard's Rule for IM Runner Length
The general rule is that you should begin with a runner length of 17.8 cm for a 10,000 rpm peak torque location, from the intake opening to the plenum chamber. You add 4.3 cm to the runner length for every 1000 rpm that you want the peak torque to occur before the 10,000 rpm.
So, for instance, if peak torque should occur at 4,000 rpm the total runner length should be 17.8 cm + (6 x 4.3 cm) = 43.6 cm.
Vizard also suggests that you can calculate the ideal runner diameter by the equation :
SQRT [ (target rpm for peak torque x Displacement x VE)/ 3330 ]
SQRT = square root
VE = Volumetric Efficiency in %
Displacement in Liters
eg.
So if we want peak torque at 5800 rpm at 95% VE in a teg, VE = 0.95
SQRT [ (5800x 1.8 L x 0.95)/3330]
= 1.73 in. or 43.8 mm (1,73 x 25.4 mm/in.) is the ideal runner diameter.
I have always found info from David Vizard to be reliable
Here is some good reading that all reads right to me
http://www.team-integra.net/forum/blogs/michaeldelaney/130-intake-manifold-tech-runner-size-calculations.html
you need to look at the info for FI (forced induction)
Post 780019 by 960kg on 2015-08-02 15:51:07
[QUOTE=LiamT4;779985]Why do you use the exclamation mark so much! Its as though you're shouting all the time!
You do realise that there are differences in the way N/A and forced induction work? It does expalain a little on that link i posted, which you agree'd with.[/QUOTE]
Obviously as you are not writing the post you do not know how i feel about what i write .........so also obviously you don`t know the explanation of the exclamation mark?
I agree with that link but what gets me is members like claymore thinks that nobody else knows anything and he even states that he can explain an opposite to every thing i say!
It simply has ALL been done before as the physics or whatever you want to call them cannot change just like in the post below.
I learned early in my tuning of motors that you don`t give away secrets otherwise you will never beat the opposition...why do you think even now F1 keep things secret.
Probably claymore is just trying to confuse the opposition instead of being truthful!
[QUOTE=classicswede;779989]To answer the runner length to best power band here is a rule of thumb for runners
1. / One Formula: David Vizard's Rule for IM Runner Length
The general rule is that you should begin with a runner length of 17.8 cm for a 10,000 rpm peak torque location, from the intake opening to the plenum chamber. You add 4.3 cm to the runner length for every 1000 rpm that you want the peak torque to occur before the 10,000 rpm.
So, for instance, if peak torque should occur at 4,000 rpm the total runner length should be 17.8 cm + (6 x 4.3 cm) = 43.6 cm.
Vizard also suggests that you can calculate the ideal runner diameter by the equation :
SQRT [ (target rpm for peak torque x Displacement x VE)/ 3330 ]
SQRT = square root
VE = Volumetric Efficiency in %
Displacement in Liters
eg.
So if we want peak torque at 5800 rpm at 95% VE in a teg, VE = 0.95
SQRT [ (5800x 1.8 L x 0.95)/3330]
= 1.73 in. or 43.8 mm (1,73 x 25.4 mm/in.) is the ideal runner diameter.
I have always found info from David Vizard to be reliable
Here is some good reading that all reads right to me
http://www.team-integra.net/forum/blogs/michaeldelaney/130-intake-manifold-tech-runner-size-calculations.html
you need to look at the info for FI (forced induction)[/QUOTE]
.....and there is none better than Vizard and he goes back to my Mini days of tuning and Small Fords also having articles in Car & Car Conversions. I still have one of his books.
............................................................................
............................................................................
Yes, N/A is more critical for tuning but as i have said before whatever goes in general for N/A is also good for a blown engine.
Don`t forget boost in psi is NOT air speed.
Post 780021 by claymore on 2015-08-02 16:30:20
[QUOTE=960kg;780019]Obviously
Probably claymore is just trying to confuse the opposition instead of being truthful!
[/QUOTE]
WAW, why the hell would I want to hide anything when you have already stated on a previous post that I couldn't build a powerful engine so I had to put an extra engine in the car. I don't hide anything, on the contrary I post everything I do up on here, warts and all, your arrogance astounds me, but that statement certainly tells me the way your mind works.
Pete, my runner length is 31cm from valve stem to bell mouth, if that's any use to you, and as my on board videos show, you can hear the second power band come in at around 7k rpm
Post 780026 by 960kg on 2015-08-02 16:48:12
[QUOTE=claymore;780021]WAW, why the hell would I want to hide anything when you have already stated on a previous post that I couldn't build a powerful engine so I had to put an extra engine in the car. I don't hide anything, on the contrary I post everything I do up on here, warts and all, your arrogance astounds me, but that statement certainly tells me the way your mind works.
Pete, my runner length is 31cm from valve stem to bell mouth, if that's any use to you, and as my on board videos show, you can hear the second power band come in at around 7k rpm[/QUOTE]
Ha ha ha........i don`t call it arrogance, only yooooo would...Lol
I call it persuasive posting......at least you stating the 31cm length is a bit more help for Pete.....
Post 780032 by t5 pete on 2015-08-02 17:33:43
Thank you one thing I will say unless your a business there should be no reason as to keep secrets on a forum as that is what they are originally intended for I for one have no knoledge on actually building a custom manifold to a correct spec or formula that's why I ask and as said a big thank you to people who have helped.
Post 780042 by oblark on 2015-08-02 19:14:11
[QUOTE=t5 pete;779946]Did you work on any theroy regarding the size of your chamber or was it just a case make it to fit and then you worked out the ltr[/QUOTE]
My runners are 215mm long (thats from valve hand to plenum chamber.
Post 780048 by claymore on 2015-08-02 19:37:32
So, let me get this right, David Vizard says shorter runners for higher revs, strange that, as that's what I said in post 2, then 960kg jumped in with his convoluted post to tell me I was wrong?
Post 780057 by ExternalError on 2015-08-02 20:16:06
Tbh I have to agree with Liam and claymore you do come over as being a bit arogent
Post 780064 by LiamT4 on 2015-08-02 20:30:22
[QUOTE=960kg;780019]Obviously as you are not writing the post you do not know how i feel about what i write .........so also obviously you don`t know the explanation of the exclamation mark?[/QUOTE]
Firstly, i know exactly what an exclamation mark means, but i wasn't sure if you did. That is why i was asking.
Because of your often usage of the exclamation mark, It makes it sound that you are getting angry. This is not a good way to debate.
From your answer, am i to infer that this is correct? Do you have some sort of personality issue that means you can't have a debate with someone who disagrees with you without shouting?
Do you not realise that the way you come across is very "i'm right and your wrong"? I see many people on here give their opinions without resorting to the responses (in terms of the way they come across) that you do. From where we are, it seems as though you are the one that seems to think other members know nothing.
This comment "Don`t forget boost in psi is NOT air speed." i do not understand??? Who actually thinks that??
Post 780074 by LiamT4 on 2015-08-02 20:58:03
[QUOTE=claymore;780048]So, let me get this right, David Vizard says shorter runners for higher revs, strange that, as that's what I said in post 2, then 960kg jumped in with his convoluted post to tell me I was wrong?[/QUOTE]
"The general rule is that you should begin with a runner length of 17.8 cm for a 10,000 rpm peak torque location, from the intake opening to the plenum chamber. You add 4.3 cm to the runner length for every 1000 rpm that you want the peak torque to occur before the 10,000 rpm."
Thats what that seems to state, yes.
Post 780086 by 960kg on 2015-08-02 21:51:01
[QUOTE=LiamT4;780064]Firstly, i know exactly what an exclamation mark means, but i wasn't sure if you did. That is why i was asking.
Because of your often usage of the exclamation mark, It makes it sound that you are getting angry. This is not a good way to debate.
From your answer, am i to infer that this is correct? Do you have some sort of personality issue that means you can't have a debate with someone who disagrees with you without shouting?
Do you not realise that the way you come across is very "i'm right and your wrong"? I see many people on here give their opinions without resorting to the responses (in terms of the way they come across) that you do. From where we are, it seems as though you are the one that seems to think other members know nothing.
This comment "Don`t forget boost in psi is NOT air speed." i do not understand??? Who actually thinks that??[/QUOTE]
Why should I be angry?......I know what I know how a lot of others learnt, I am no different.
The main thing I do not like rudeness or abuse from others and as soon as they make the first move then I will follow.
My post are all politely relevent until the first one pulls it to bits and my posts are for the op'S information and not for abusing by others ......they are my opinions only.
[QUOTE=LiamT4;780074]"The general rule is that you should begin with a runner length of 17.8 cm for a 10,000 rpm peak torque location, from the intake opening to the plenum chamber. You add 4.3 cm to the runner length for every 1000 rpm that you want the peak torque to occur before the 10,000 rpm."
Thats what that seems to state, yes.[/QUOTE]
If one reads properly what is written in some of the links you will then understand that the results the runner length gives is dependant also on the engine package.....what type of engine and what type of cams and design of combustion chamber......nothing is Gospel!
Even the design of cam and it's timings will give higher revs whatever the length of runner.
......and so the saga will go on and on and the best thing is to read oneself all the info on the net about the subject and then there will be no more questions.
.
Post 780095 by oblark on 2015-08-02 22:32:59
I wish I'd not started my plenum chamber thread on here and just put it facebook as all it caused is a load of aggro.
Post 780096 by claymore on 2015-08-02 22:52:12
[QUOTE=oblark;780095]I wish I'd not started my plenum chamber thread on here and just put it facebook as all it caused is a load of aggro.[/QUOTE]
I think nearly everyone is loving your manifold build mate. but you always get some keyboard warrior who knows better but doesn't show any of his own build threads or modifications.
Post 780100 by Ettienne on 2015-08-02 23:01:47
[QUOTE=claymore;780096]I think nearly everyone is loving your manifold build mate. but you always get some keyboard warrior who knows better but doesn't show any of his own build threads or modifications.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that always the truth!
Post 780189 by LiamT4 on 2015-08-03 20:44:14
[QUOTE=960kg;780086]Why should I be angry?......I know what I know how a lot of others learnt, I am no different.
The main thing I do not like rudeness or abuse from others and as soon as they make the first move then I will follow.
My post are all politely relevent until the first one pulls it to bits and my posts are for the op'S information and not for abusing by others ......they are my opinions only.[/QUOTE]
I don't know why or if your getting angry, and i don't really care either, i'm just pointing out how you're coming across.
Often it just seems as though you may as well go the whole way AND START TYPING EVERYTHING WITH THE CAPS LOCK ON!
Post 780210 by 960kg on 2015-08-03 22:41:12
[QUOTE=LiamT4;780189]I don't know why or if your getting angry, and i don't really care either, i'm just pointing out how you're coming across.
Often it just seems as though you may as well go the whole way AND START TYPING EVERYTHING WITH THE CAPS LOCK ON![/QUOTE]
Life is TOUGH on a forum isn't......... get over it!
Post 780339 by LiamT4 on 2015-08-04 20:42:28
[QUOTE=960kg;780210]Life is TOUGH on a forum isn't......... get over it![/QUOTE]
Please, keep going, i find your responses quite amusing because its only proving my point.
Post 781274 by barkster1971 on 2015-08-11 08:07:09
If this is for the 16vt in the 240 the space available will be the main deciding factor for the shape of the thing. Also are you placing the throttle body on the short end near the thermostat or in the middle of the plenum like the stock one. Routing the intercooler to throttle body pipe is a lot easier with the tb ner the thermostat. kg trimning do inlet manifolds, copy one of theirs.
Post 786667 by classicswede on 2015-09-23 21:52:23
Any progress?
Post 786669 by t5 pete on 2015-09-23 22:17:37
[QUOTE=classicswede;786667]Any progress?[/QUOTE]
It will be winter time when I start building it as I need to order pistons and rods first and get the engine and head sat in place vertically so I know how much room ive got to play with.
The plan of attack will making it out of 4mm sheet alloy rolled and then taper it down to the last port
Post 786670 by claymore on 2015-09-23 22:23:55
4mm blimey, I was going to use 3mm for mine.
Post 786671 by t5 pete on 2015-09-23 22:48:19
[QUOTE=claymore;786670]4mm blimey, I was going to use 3mm for mine.[/QUOTE]
If it's worth doing its worth doing right ive read a few things about thin metal ballooning causing the welds to crack also the more rounded the better
Post 794177 by Basil on 2016-01-01 13:27:21
For what it's worth here is a link to some photos of one of my projects, it's a Formula Atlantic 1.6 litre Toyota 4A-GE race motor converted from wild N/A to fairly wild turbo charged. The plenum was made from a band sawed up alloy fire extinguisher bottle,and the manifold is the original for twin side draught Webers. It runs a single Jenvey throttle body. The injector stubs were welded into the carburettor style manifold pointing at the backs of the intake valves. Fire extinguisher bottles make a cheap and easy to weld starting point for plenums. It has full radius bell mouths on each intake within the plenum
Turbo is a GT2860, on a custom Inconel manifold.
http://www.chriswilson.tv/4AGEbuild/build.html
Post 794179 by claymore on 2016-01-01 13:56:10
Mine all done.
Post 794278 by barkster1971 on 2016-01-02 21:14:45
When I got the injector bungs welded into my kjet manifold the angle was set so the injectors spray more or less onto the back of the valve. With the 16v head having oval ports and two valves the tricky bit will be at the bottom flange and injector bung angle. I'll probably get 38-39mm inlet valves put in and the ports enlarged which will make the runners a greater diameter. Just debating whether to have the runners oval or round or have them change half way down.
