Electoral corruption in England sugar coated

Post 772277 by S40kieran on 2015-05-09 21:39:40

I mentioned a few days ago how I went into my local polling booth and on the table I was confronted by 3 bits of paper, one for the mayor one for general election once for the council elections, the two other papers had 3 choices first, 2cnd, 3rd if you just made one choice the paper was deemed as spoilt talk about corruption no wonder we woke up with the tory's on Friday morning, we also lost a really really good mp because of it did this kind of thing happen in other people's constituencies, should be a re election immediately I.m.o. Here is a extract from local voters to where I live. Amy Bennett So why are some votes being deemed invalid due to there only being 1 vote? 2 · 6 hrs Mike MrErgo Lister They are not invalid. The first vote applies to the first count but if there is no 2nd vote it is only 'spoilt' for the 2nd vote. 1st pref still stands. 2 · 5 hrs Marie Tanton So it's the terminology of "spoilt ballots" that's at fault. That still suggests that, like me, a lot of people didn't know that putting the same person twice was a valid option. 9 mins Liz Pippett I was informed a the poling station that you did not have to make a second choice.. It was up to me. If I had know this would lead to a spoilt ballot paper I would not have chosen only one. 10 · 7 hrs 1 Reply Cathy-Cuddles Griffiths How can 4500 papers be discarded just because they did not choose a "second option". If you strongly support someone why the hell would you want a second choice. I would be intrigued to know if the majority of these were for Brewer as people were clearly behind him and saw no reason to have a back up vote and by discounting these papers put oliver in the lead! 8 · 6 hrs · Edited 2 Replies · 5 hrs Corinne Gwilliams Can someone please tell me why pencils are supplied instead of biro's? 7 · 7 hrs 5 Replies · 4 hrs Lucy Collings The wording definitely suggested that "up to 3" was optional! I'm staggered that Gordon Oliver has been re-elected, there was a petition to get him fired a few months ago! 7 · 6 hrs 2 Replies · 19 mins Lyn Page Re vote please.... 6 · 7 hrs Dave Clemo Clement I phoned the council prior to voting . I asked how it works and what to do. At no point during this conversation or at the polling station was i told that i had to make 2 votes . I even spoke to a councillor in the carpark on the way in before voting ...See More 6 · 6 hrs 2 Replies · 18 mins Stephen Parsons Or "Torbay Electorate too stupid to place two crosses on form" 6 · 7 hrs Pat Borrett Not if you are told otherwise !!!! 1 · 6 hrs Cathy-Cuddles Griffiths Don't see why you should need two choices. You have someone you support strongly enough.... Just going to lead to people tactically second voting the most unpopular one! Mind you, if that gets oliver out then let's do it! 6 hrs Stephen Parsons The anti Oliver brigade had two opportunities to oust him. He still won. It was a democratic vote, he won. Time to move forward, simples. 3 · 6 hrs Cathy-Cuddles Griffiths Re vote. No two ways about it 5 · 6 hrs 2 Replies · 3 hrs Darren Illman With that amount of confusion why isn't there a re vote? make the ballot papers easy to understand and then get the right result. Typical Tory wouldn't want that though! Democracy??? who are they laughing at? 4 · 7 hrs Charlotte Allen I agree a re vote should be arranged if many voters were mislead in the voting system x 4 · 7 hrs Sharon Noble People were misled! It clearly said UP TO three choices __________________

Post 772288 by Jimmie on 2015-05-09 22:43:55

Now now Keiron or should it be Keiran ! Its over!lol

Post 772290 by MoleT-5R on 2015-05-09 22:51:46

not into politics take it to FB or the like as it has nothing to do with VOLVO .

Post 772293 by Jimmie on 2015-05-09 23:16:12

[QUOTE=MoleT-5R;772290]not into politics take it to FB or the like as it has nothing to do with VOLVO .[/QUOTE] But you cant take politics out of day to day life. Even Volvo themselves get involved. But I can see where you are coming from in a way.

Post 772295 by stribo on 2015-05-09 23:27:08

It's a democracy mate, the majority won, if you're not happy with that, then bad luck. Having said that, the system needs a rehaul, as 55 seats for the SNP got less votes than 1 seat for UKIP.

Post 772296 by MoleT-5R on 2015-05-09 23:28:05

[QUOTE=Jimmie;772293]But you cant take politics out of day to day life. Even Volvo themselves get involved. But I can see where you are coming from in a way.[/QUOTE] I think this little e-space should a politics/bull££££ free zone, especially as it is all over now....:)

Post 772299 by Jimmie on 2015-05-09 23:35:38

Post 772300 by S40kieran on 2015-05-09 23:36:03

Noted but the tory's may have scrapped in but they don't represent me and millions of other people Stribo ;) remember that mate 5 years time we can kick you out :) if the scots don't first lol, I was just merely pointing out the corruption and it's wholescale

Post 772301 by S40kieran on 2015-05-09 23:43:02

Anyway weres the orca :)

Post 772319 by jdavis on 2015-05-10 07:55:43

[QUOTE=stribo;772295]It's a democracy mate, the majority won, if you're not happy with that, then bad luck. Having said that, the system needs a rehaul, as 55 seats for the SNP got less votes than 1 seat for UKIP.[/QUOTE] The problem with ukip was they spread them self sonthin across the whole country instead of focusing on certain areas. Also, there policies where to much to please all, something that wouldn't be sustainable if (God forbid) they ever got in. They'll be dead in the water now Farage has gone. At the end of the day, democracy won. Personally I think it was the right outcome. The country have voted with the mind and not necessarily the heart.

Post 772323 by stribo on 2015-05-10 08:05:42

[QUOTE=S40kieran;772300]Noted but the tory's may have scrapped in but they don't represent me and millions of other people Stribo ;) remember that mate 5 years time we can kick you out :) if the scots don't first lol, I was just merely pointing out the corruption and it's wholescale[/QUOTE] Maybe they don't represent you, but they represent the majority that voted them in. How could the Scots kick them out? Independence? There was a referendum, and the majority wanted to stay in the union.

Post 772337 by claymore on 2015-05-10 09:36:54

I voted ukip, but it was more a protest vote, I'm glad the torries got in with a majority, at least we haven't got the likes of the lib dems holding them back now.

Post 772340 by Santa on 2015-05-10 10:23:45

[QUOTE=stribo;772295]It's a democracy mate, the majority won, if you're not happy with that, then bad luck. Having said that, the system needs a rehaul, as 55 seats for the SNP got less votes than 1 seat for UKIP.[/QUOTE] Back in 2011 the UK were given the chance to vote for an alternative voting system, the majority of those that bothered to vote (40 odd % turnout) had voted to keep the system as is. Democracy wins again

Post 772341 by stribo on 2015-05-10 10:43:15

[QUOTE=Santa;772340]Back in 2011 the UK were given the chance to vote for an alternative voting system, the majority of those that bothered to vote (40 odd % turnout) had voted to keep the system as is. Democracy wins again[/QUOTE] True, although AV is a joke, and no sane person would want that.

Post 772343 by Jimmie on 2015-05-10 10:58:01

[QUOTE=stribo;772341]True, although AV is a joke, and no sane person would want that.[/QUOTE] Ah therefore what you are suggesting that everybody must have been mad that voted against it.? There must be an awfull lot of mad people in this country. Maybe that is the reason why a lot of people on here buy a Volvo instead of a Beemer.:mischievo But at least in this country people have the freedom to vote as they please without i hope any harrasment.

Post 772344 by no1tosh on 2015-05-10 11:05:31

well plebs like me are stuffed and if you were stupid enough to fall for there scare tatic's then well done youve screwwed it up for all of us! [video=youtube;0YBumQHPAeU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YBumQHPAeU[/video]

Post 772345 by stribo on 2015-05-10 11:14:57

[QUOTE=Jimmie;772343]Ah therefore what you are suggesting that everybody must have been mad that voted against it.? There must be an awfull lot of mad people in this country. Maybe that is the reason why a lot of people on here buy a Volvo instead of a Beemer.:mischievo But at least in this country people have the freedom to vote as they please without i hope any harrasment.[/QUOTE] Not harrassing anyone, just stating a fact, AV is just too complicated, and a lot harder to administer than the current system.

Post 772346 by stribo on 2015-05-10 11:21:46

[QUOTE=no1tosh;772344]well plebs like me are stuffed and if you were stupid enough to fall for there scare tatic's then well done youve screwwed it up for all of us! [/QUOTE] No scare tactics needed, history is enough to show us that Labour can't run an economy, having left the country virtually bankrupt twice after their last two administrations. [video=youtube;zeQjH65Rvgw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeQjH65Rvgw[/video]

Post 772354 by S40kieran on 2015-05-10 13:34:18

[QUOTE=no1tosh;772344]well plebs like me are stuffed and if you were stupid enough to fall for there scare tatic's then well done youve screwwed it up for all of us! [video=youtube;0YBumQHPAeU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YBumQHPAeU[/video][/QUOTE] You're not alone conservatives only got in on 20% of the country's vote :), anyway like youre name they are tosh and hoo ray Henry's and we just have too wait 5 years and they will implode and be out. I've had a great time down the labour club playing darts and snooker had to leave the volvo behind and used the bike due to the Guinness and whiskey chasers people like me and you mate will have the snp to cheer on so it's not all bad.

Post 772363 by Orca2 on 2015-05-10 15:49:45

Just for anyone who is interested, the SNP won 56 out of 59 seats in Scotland under first past the post , and they won over 50% of the votes cast which would have delivered them an absolute majority under any PR system too. AV or STV would have awarded the Liberals and Ukip , and the greens with a much greater number of seats than they currently have. First past the post only delivers democracy in a two party system, so there is no chance Cameron will be allowing any more referendums to change the voting system any time soon You missed your chance. We use AV to elect MSP's to the Scottish parliament , it has a fair mix of tories, liberals , labour and greens. And it means the leading party has to seek cross party agreement for the laws it brings forward. Unlike Westminster, where you can look forward to five years of social engineering being foisted upon you by a Government that won about 20% of the votes. Democracy it aint!

Post 772366 by Orca2 on 2015-05-10 15:59:01

[QUOTE=S40kieran;772301]Anyway weres the orca :)[/QUOTE] Sorry Codfather.. Was out on the batter celebrating a big SNP win on Thursday. Just came up for air now.

Post 772396 by MIKESC70T5 on 2015-05-10 18:43:10

I really don't follow politics, but one thing that winds me up is why in Scotland is higher education free? The rest of the Country has to pay £1000's to send there kids to Uni, but they don't. They don't like the English but happy to take our money to give them free education, or have I got it wrong? Mike

Post 772399 by stribo on 2015-05-10 18:51:28

[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;772396]I really don't follow politics, but one thing that winds me up is why in Scotland is higher education free? The rest of the Country has to pay £1000's to send there kids to Uni, but they don't. They don't like the English but happy to take our money to give them free education, or have I got it wrong? Mike[/QUOTE] No, you haven't Mike, our taxes pay for their free higher education, and their free prescriptions.

Post 772406 by Orca2 on 2015-05-10 19:25:43

Fraid not chaps ,, this is a big lie that The Daily Mail has been telling for years.. The facts are that Scotland has contributed more tax per capita to the UK for each of the last 55 years on the trot. The Barnett formula is a mechanism that repatriates a proportion of our taxes to Scotland , largely in recognition that it is more costly to run public services here than in England ,as we have a much less densely populated larger land mass. We make up a third of the UK as land mass , but only a tenth of the population. the NHS and education are devolved to Holyrood and tuition fees are free up here because we forego other spending . England could do the same thing if they allocatedtheir education budget differently . Free education is a priority for the Scots , and clearly is not for the English. Where only the rich can really afford to access it. If the next Einstein happens to be born on a council estate in Newcastle , it is unlikely we will ever know he existed. If you want free university education , you should make your opinion heard. We did years ago . They can afford to hand over 100 billion pounds to America to pay for a nuclear deterrent, which is not fit for the threats we face , but they cannot pay to educate your children .? If you keep letting them get away with it , they will keep doing it. You have a struggle on your hands , cos the new government dont give a toss about you , just their rich arms manufacturing buddies in America. Good luck.

Post 772413 by Jimmie on 2015-05-10 19:58:58

Orca you saved me the time posting similar already written out but I had left it on another page. I'll bet you are glad you COULD print an explanation.

Post 772416 by Orca2 on 2015-05-10 20:09:34

Tbh I have been knocking this lie down for about twelve years now . And I don't really blame people in England for believing it because the Tories have been repeating it over and over and the press have backed them up again and again . But it is a flat lie. Last New Year I was at a neighbours party and an ex Tory MPwho was a guest tried to sell this baloney to Mrs Orca . She is not political at all and she tore his argument to shreds right in front of everyone . He didn't have any arguments to bring either , he was so used to trotting out this tripe and having it accepted as truth.And this guy was an ex cabinet minister.

Post 772459 by S40kieran on 2015-05-10 22:28:46

I don't blame you mate we had a bit of a Scottish thing going on here and I'll be cheering them on in pmq's, 5 years will soon come and go ;), I'd like to see the snp fielding candidates in England and Wales orca tbh, sturgeon has said very generously she's not in Westminster just for the scots but all the down trodden in the uk I really like her and Welldone you guys up there, I may have a job up that way fingers crossed, I can escape this austerity and lies in England with any luck.

Post 772463 by Orca2 on 2015-05-10 22:36:51

I think change is coming for the whole UK Kieran , Pretty much everyone is sick of this busted system . I think another fuve years of this crap is about as much as anyone will be able to take. Cameron , with the help of The Daily Mason , and Rupert Murdoch , has stirred up animosity between Scotland and England , to suit his own ambitions. He has either sealed the fate of the Union he says he defends or his own fate .

Post 772465 by S40kieran on 2015-05-10 22:45:46

[QUOTE=Orca2;772463]I think change is coming for the whole UK Kieran , Pretty much everyone is sick of this busted system . I think another fuve years of this crap is about as much as anyone will be able to take. Cameron , with the help of The Daily Mason , and Rupert Murdoch , has stirred up animosity between Scotland and England , to suit his own ambitions. He has either sealed the fate of the Union he says he defends or his own fate .[/QUOTE] Yep I thought his media daily mail style attacks on fellow British people and his campaign was very distasteful, as his attacks on the most vulnerable in society who have been blamed for the mistakes of the bankers. We won't be comming out of Europe now :( because all the angry voters out there will swing that referendum in favour of a no vote, to punnish the tory's. My fellow countrymen down here in places must be barmy you wouldn't vote for a ten year pay cut at work would you lol. Yep youre right change is comming and it's lead by the scots if you want my opinion.one good thing to come out of it the Tory that was corruptly voted in here has big shoes to fill and he won't be able to do it he will be out in 5 years time :). The mayor is astonishing everyone here mate because over his term he has been fricken useless tbh, there's been calls for him and his office to be scrapped. I think what happend people panicked at the thought of scots pouring over raiding the coffers and just voted Tory they didn't want to but that's what happend.

Post 772468 by stutgart69 on 2015-05-10 22:53:06

[QUOTE=S40kieran;772459]I may have a job up that way fingers crossed, I can escape this austerity and lies in England with any luck.[/QUOTE] You are thinking of moving up here? From the Riviera?? You will freeze to death man! :)

Post 772471 by S40kieran on 2015-05-10 22:58:34

[QUOTE=stutgart69;772468]You are thinking of moving up here? From the Riviera?? You will freeze to death man! :)[/QUOTE] Hahahahahaha I will have to ditch the swimming trunks and tshirt lol and buy myself a down coat, and yes maybe Stutgart if I get this job at pgl, I'll miss everyone down here family and friends but won't miss other aspects, working in a country that is fantastic and beautiful you never know I may get bored without my volvo and buy that v70 I keep promising myself lol, (Edinburgh way it is mate)

Post 772472 by Orca2 on 2015-05-10 23:00:23

Ha ha You beat me to it Stoots, its frickin freezing up here Mr Bigglesworth. You wouldnt last ten minutes Kieran, i have a foot of blubber to keep out the cold and I'm freezing.

Post 772475 by Orca2 on 2015-05-10 23:04:15

Only joking Kieran you would love it up here, you have just the right sense of humour, and the fishing is good, not to mention all those wee Edinburgh lassies with their sexy accents! As I am wont to say" i like a wee tartan skirt , but I prefer a wee tart in bed" Plus point is for what your house is worth you could buy yourself a country estate with a castle , I can see you now . Laird Kieran of Cockpen.

Post 772476 by S40kieran on 2015-05-10 23:06:22

[QUOTE=Orca2;772472]Ha ha You beat me to it Stoots, its frickin freezing up here Mr Bigglesworth. You wouldnt last ten minutes Kieran, i have a foot of blubber to keep out the cold and I'm freezing.[/QUOTE] Lmao I saw to Eritrean immigrants on the news talking about their new life in the UK, I was thinking come the winter those guys are goona feel it lol.

Post 772477 by S40kieran on 2015-05-10 23:09:38

[QUOTE=Orca2;772475]Only joking Kieran you would love it up here, you have just the right sense of humour, and the fishing is good, not to mention all those wee Edinburgh lassies with their sexy accents! As I am wont to say" i like a wee tartan skirt , but I prefer a wee tart in bed" Plus point is for what your house is worth you could buy yourself a country estate with a castle , I can see you now . Laird Kieran of Cockpen.[/QUOTE] Lol and orca if I was a multi millionaire I couldn't be bothered with a great big house lol, a nice bungalow with enough space too have a big barn for some toys. Plenty of parking. You can't live in 13 rooms can you lol

Post 772482 by stutgart69 on 2015-05-10 23:28:40

Edinburgh way Kieran? Hmm... Bunch of dour faced gits lol , you would be better veering left a bit lol

Post 772483 by Orca2 on 2015-05-10 23:33:08

The traditional greeting in Embra is " you will have had your tea ? " you would love Glesca Kieran . Would you count as an asylum seeker, given your country has been taken over by a dangerous nazi regime ?

Post 772490 by stutgart69 on 2015-05-11 00:03:34

[QUOTE=Orca2;772483]The traditional greeting in Embra is " you will have had your tea ? "[/QUOTE] As opposed to the Glesga one "Its your round". :D

Post 772491 by jamesy12345 on 2015-05-11 00:16:49

[QUOTE=Orca2;772475]...not to mention all those wee Edinburgh lassies with their sexy accents! ...[/QUOTE] Like!

Post 772498 by zoidberg on 2015-05-11 00:57:11

I was just merely pointing out the corruption and it's wholescale corruption' So Kieran.......................................... where's the corruption. If you are too thick to understand the voting system, then don't vote and keep your trap shut about it Simple as that , don't assume other folk have a low IQ and can't understand something which is easy to follow !

Post 772500 by stribo on 2015-05-11 06:29:37

[QUOTE=S40kieran;772459]I don't blame you mate we had a bit of a Scottish thing going on here and I'll be cheering them on in pmq's, 5 years will soon come and go ;),[COLOR="#FF0000"] I'd like to see the snp fielding candidates in England and Wales [/COLOR]orca tbh, sturgeon has said very generously she's not in Westminster just for the scots but all the down trodden in the uk I really like her and Welldone you guys up there, I may have a job up that way fingers crossed, I can escape this austerity and lies in England with any luck.[/QUOTE] I don't know what you've been smoking Kieran, but you do know that SNP stands for Scottish National Party, which limits them to Scotland. I know you're not happy with the result ofn the election, but you can't change it, so rather than banging on about how much you hate the Conservatives, why not get on with life, you never know, you might enjoy it.

Post 772512 by Orca2 on 2015-05-11 09:09:25

There is technically no reason why the SNP couldn't field candidates in England Particularly in the North which has suffered industrial decline and neglect on a similar scale to Scotland. It is unlikely they will ever field a candidate as far south as Kieran is, lol. But you never know, one of the most googled questions last week in England was " can I vote for Nicola Sturgeon .

Post 772514 by jdavis on 2015-05-11 09:41:30

In the UK (it doesnt split down further than that) on the 7th may Nicola Sturgeon was the 11th highest search on google, just in front if the monster raving loony party, I feel there's some irony there.

Post 772516 by Orca2 on 2015-05-11 09:50:26

He he it doesn't surprise me that people were looking into voting Monster Raving Loony This timeRound they almost looked like a real alternative.

Post 772524 by S40kieran on 2015-05-11 10:41:46

[QUOTE=stribo;772500]I don't know what you've been smoking Kieran, but you do know that SNP stands for Scottish National Party, which limits them to Scotland. I know you're not happy with the result ofn the election, but you can't change it, so rather than banging on about how much you hate the Conservatives, why not get on with life, you never know, you might enjoy it.[/QUOTE] Brilliant time was had with union men and labour men yesterday mate :) you should of joined in playing darts and throwing darts at conservative peers :). The snp will eventually be a uk wide party and all hail the day when that comes. The Scottish have my full support. Anyway yes youre right we need to stop moaning and look foward we have elections for the mayor of London next year and the year after that the eu elections :) can't wait. Goona be a concerted effort into the yes stay in vote, also for anyone who's interested we have protests lined up on the 20th of June against austerity. So lots to enjoy in life. Added bonus I can even build my volvo and do the work she needs I hope Stribo, but that will be put on the back burner if I get this job up in bonnie Scotland.have to store the parts and the car in a lock up.

Post 772543 by MIKESC70T5 on 2015-05-11 12:59:58

I lived in Inverness from the age of 9-13 after spending the first 9 years living in England. After two years in Australia we came back to the UK and finished my education on the South Coast, Bournemouth. Been here ever since. Scotland would be the last place I'd want to live now. Bloody cold most the time and the women compared to what's down South are generally minging lol. Poor complexions and very overweight, probably due to the lack of nice weather lol. My brother who stayed up there until he graduated, married a Scots girl, they then moved to the States to live and work lol.

Post 772546 by Orca2 on 2015-05-11 15:17:43

For most of the year it is very difficult to tell what Scottish Women look like They only take off their duffel coats and balaclavas for ten days in August.

Post 772548 by S40kieran on 2015-05-11 15:57:14

[QUOTE=Orca2;772546]For most of the year it is very difficult to tell what Scottish Women look like They only take off their duffel coats and balaclavas for ten days in August.[/QUOTE] Except for jo Wilson orca :) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VWDnm6VTujg ain't she a fit Scottish lassie I don't know what region she's from though lol https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=grvIMh8r5dg awwwwwww mummy

Post 772553 by Orca2 on 2015-05-11 16:29:54

Well you wouldnt move here to get a sun tan Kieran , there has to be some compensation.

Post 772554 by S40kieran on 2015-05-11 16:39:30

Where's that little sex pot from lol xxx can you tell from her regional dialect orca.

Post 772561 by jamesy12345 on 2015-05-11 17:57:18

[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;772543]I lived in Inverness from the age of 9-13 after spending the first 9 years living in England. After two years in Australia we came back to the UK and finished my education on the South Coast, Bournemouth. Been here ever since. Scotland would be the last place I'd want to live now. Bloody cold most the time and the women compared to what's down South are generally minging lol. Poor complexions and very overweight, probably due to the lack of nice weather lol. My brother who stayed up there until he graduated, married a Scots girl, they then moved to the States to live and work lol.[/QUOTE] there must be no fat birds in England where you are from then, cos I'm from Durham and I can see loads. Fat is socially acceptable now, cannot believe the aisles and aisles of ££££ty food in Asda/Tesco/whatever. Too easy to eat badly.

Post 772565 by stribo on 2015-05-11 18:08:24

[QUOTE=jamesy12345;772561]there must be no fat birds in England where you are from then, cos I'm from Durham and I can see loads. Fat is socially acceptable now, cannot believe the aisles and aisles of ££££ty food in Asda/Tesco/whatever. Too easy to eat badly.[/QUOTE] Mike get's his food shop delivered by Fortnum and Mason, so all healthy, apart from maybe the foie gras. ;)

Post 772571 by stutgart69 on 2015-05-11 18:40:18

Farage remains as leader http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32696505

Post 772573 by S70T5Chris on 2015-05-11 18:59:36

[QUOTE=Orca2;772406] They can afford to hand over 100 billion pounds to America to pay for a nuclear deterrent, which is not fit for the threats we face....[/QUOTE] Precisely the reason that the SNP worry me. I for one am incredibly glad that there wasn't a coalition that the SNP were part of.

Post 772574 by S70T5Chris on 2015-05-11 19:01:08

££££ it, I'm moving to Scotland, fat birds are in vogue at the moment :saythat: :uglyhamme:uglyhamme:uglyhamme:uglyhamme

Post 772575 by Orca2 on 2015-05-11 19:02:06

Who rejected his resignation , was it Mr N. Farage perhaps ? Good Ol Nige I knew he wouldn't let us down.

Post 772576 by Orca2 on 2015-05-11 19:05:36

[QUOTE=S70T5Chris;772573]Precisely the reason that the SNP worry me. I for one am incredibly glad that there wasn't a coalition that the SNP were part of.[/QUOTE] Why would anyone actually want a £100 billion pounds weapon that doesnt do what it says on the tin. Wouldn't it be better to re staff the army And have a flexible reaction capability that can be used to counter the threat we actually face these days It's a bit difficult to deploy Trident against some radicalised teenager living in Bradford

Post 772579 by S70T5Chris on 2015-05-11 19:09:16

[QUOTE=Orca2;772576]Why would anyone actually want a £100 billion pounds weapon that doesnt do what it says on the tin. Wouldn't it be better to re staff the army And have a flexible reaction capability that can be used to counter the threat we actually face these days It's a bit difficult to deploy Trident against some radicalised teenager living in Bradford[/QUOTE] We live in the most dangerous time in this planets existence IMO. What happens if we don't have that deterrent? I for one would not like to find out.

Post 772580 by stribo on 2015-05-11 19:10:08

[QUOTE=Orca2;772576]Why would anyone actually want a £100 billion pounds weapon that doesnt do what it says on the tin. Wouldn't it be better to re staff the army And have a flexible reaction capability that can be used to counter the threat we actually face these days [COLOR="#FF0000"]It's a bit difficult to deploy Trident against some radicalised teenager living in Bradford[/COLOR][/QUOTE] I've seen Bradford, I think Trident would improve it. :D

Post 772581 by Orca2 on 2015-05-11 19:12:39

We know exactly what happens when we have it. 911 happens , and 7/7 and the Fakkkands invasion and Charli Hebdo and the killing of Lee Rigby and the Glasgow Airport attack . Maybe we should have nuked Paisley where those guys lived . Don't believe the hype. Ps as above Paisley could use a makeover too.

Post 772582 by S70T5Chris on 2015-05-11 19:22:46

[QUOTE=Orca2;772581]We know exactly what happens when we have it. 911 happens , and 7/7 and the Fakkkands invasion and Charli Hebdo and the killing of Lee Rigby and the Glasgow Airport attack . Maybe we should have nuked Paisley where those guys lived . Don't believe the hype. Ps as above Paisley could use a makeover too.[/QUOTE] My question was, what would happen IF we didn't have it? That's a crazy attitude IMO.

Post 772583 by Orca2 on 2015-05-11 19:29:47

What is crazy about it , Trident is supposed to be a deterrent to our enemies attacking us. Given that the biggest threat we face is terrorist attack, largely perpetrated by home grown nutters , Trident offers no deterrent to them. However it does suck up a huge part of our military budget , which could be much better spent on beefing up our borders and our conventional forces, and our intel services. Trident is simply not fit for the threats we face these days. Mr Putin has no need to ever threaten us with nuclear weapons , he only has to shut off the gas supply to cripple the whole of Western Europe. Unless the Trident replacement can switch big valves back on it aint going to be much help.

Post 772621 by Harvey on 2015-05-11 21:57:56

I see the thread title about sugar, even Lord Sugar said he's had enough of Labour....Can't say much more.:saythat:

Post 772627 by Orca2 on 2015-05-11 22:04:26

Hes fired himself , Hes a tosser anyway, but even the tossers are fleeing the sinking shio .

Post 772667 by jamesy12345 on 2015-05-11 23:13:48

[QUOTE=Orca2;772583]What is crazy about it , Trident is supposed to be a deterrent to our enemies attacking us. Given that the biggest threat we face is terrorist attack, largely perpetrated by home grown nutters , Trident offers no deterrent to them. However it does suck up a huge part of our military budget , which could be much better spent on beefing up our borders and our conventional forces, and our intel services. Trident is simply not fit for the threats we face these days. Mr Putin has no need to ever threaten us with nuclear weapons , he only has to shut off the gas supply to cripple the whole of Western Europe. Unless the Trident replacement can switch big valves back on it aint going to be much help.[/QUOTE] George Orwell's book 1984 tells about the government scaring the population by inventing enemies - the bogeyman - to keep people in check. Just saying :)

Post 772672 by Orca2 on 2015-05-11 23:26:59

I wonder if there is any remote possibility that those nice chaps at Lockheed Martin have any friends in the media , if I was one of them I might be tempted to push a couple of stories about the Russian Bear probing our air defences or some other such tosh. As previously posted , Putin doesnt need to send one plane over , we are much more easily destroyed by turning off the gas supply, and we cant nuke him if there is a problem with the pipeline , but the lights will go off all over Europe in about a week and a half. Industry will grind to a halt as will banking and transport ,, and not a single shot will have been fired or returned.

Post 772674 by Kingsford G on 2015-05-11 23:37:11

Now if any other party came to the power they would be blaming Conservatives for the promises they couldn`t fulfill cos Torys left the country in a deep $$$$.Lets see what happens and hope for the best.As now its all over lets wish the Conservatives best of luck building the brighter future.

Post 772677 by Orca2 on 2015-05-11 23:43:12

The Tories have been building a brighter future for the last five years , the top ten percent have doubled their wealth.

Post 772678 by jamesy12345 on 2015-05-11 23:46:47

[QUOTE=Orca2;772672]I wonder if there is any remote possibility that those nice chaps at Lockheed Martin have any friends in the media , if I was one of them I might be tempted to push a couple of stories about the Russian Bear probing our air defences or some other such tosh. As previously posted , Putin doesnt need to send one plane over , we are much more easily destroyed by turning off the gas supply, and we cant nuke him if there is a problem with the pipeline , but the lights will go off all over Europe in about a week and a half. Industry will grind to a halt as will banking and transport ,, and not a single shot will have been fired or returned.[/QUOTE] could well happen although the press are quite capable of making up their own BS. About the gas taps...also possible but Russia needs the cash & know that Qatar & Norway can't supply enough. In fact, it's ALMOST as if there are loads of £££££ ('people') making big money from the status quo....amazing. If we just keep paying our taxes & buying gear made cheaply in the EU, all this can continue for as long as we let it :). So that makes us, Joe Public, in charge. Feels good, no?

Post 772679 by Orca2 on 2015-05-11 23:49:52

Aint democracy grand .... We should really get one.

Post 772680 by S40kieran on 2015-05-12 01:50:24

[QUOTE=Orca2;772575]Who rejected his resignation , was it Mr N. Farage perhaps ? Good Ol Nige I knew he wouldn't let us down.[/QUOTE] Brilliant news time to launch the 2020 ukip comeback because dave is going to fail on that referendum, as a ukip voter orca I thought there was no hope there is a light at the end of the tunnel there is a way foward :) roll on 2020 god it's a life sentence in it lol.

Post 772684 by stribo on 2015-05-12 06:25:56

[QUOTE=S40kieran;772680]Brilliant news time to launch the 2020 ukip comeback because dave is going to fail on that referendum, as a ukip voter orca I thought there was no hope there is a light at the end of the tunnel there is a way foward :) roll on 2020 god it's a life sentence in it lol.[/QUOTE] What a hypocrite, if it had been Cameron who had said he'd resign if he lost, and then lost but didn't resign, you'd be calling him all the names under the sun, but because it's the leader of the party you support (and also I suspect you know UKIP would fade into obscurity without him) it's good news. Really does show how skewed your view of politics is.

Post 772694 by MIKESC70T5 on 2015-05-12 07:58:42

Politics and religion should be banned on car forums lol.

Post 772696 by Orca2 on 2015-05-12 08:29:00

Nah just religion Politics is more fun , the god botherers take it ver personally if you challenge any of their beliefs. A sime question like .. Show me some proof of the existence of this imaginary being you worship .

Post 772716 by S40kieran on 2015-05-12 12:22:51

[QUOTE=stribo;772684]What a hypocrite, if it had been Cameron who had said he'd resign if he lost, and then lost but didn't resign, you'd be calling him all the names under the sun, but because it's the leader of the party you support (and also I suspect you know UKIP would fade into obscurity without him) it's good news. Really does show how skewed your view of politics is.[/QUOTE] He did step down the party didn't want that I think that shows how fair ukip is. Nigel did a brilliant job we got a large proportion of votes I didn't see why he should have lost his job, what the conservatives and other party's choose to do holds no interest to me Stribo, I don't think clegg should have gone. 2020 is going to be very exciting mate :), I think once the dust settles in a few years clegg will be seen in a different light.

Post 772732 by Orca2 on 2015-05-12 15:14:17

If there was no Nigel who would kick Cameron's arse to make the EU referendum straight and fair? Clegg will be back after the summer , he is a straight bloke.

Post 772738 by jamesy12345 on 2015-05-12 17:23:58

[QUOTE=Orca2;772732]If there was no Nigel who would kick Cameron's arse to make the EU referendum straight and fair? Clegg will be back after the summer , he is a straight bloke.[/QUOTE] an EU referendum..can't wait...you can hear them wriggling already. Is Cameron up to it, to be leader of a separate UK? Not IMO.

Post 772747 by stribo on 2015-05-12 18:14:13

[QUOTE=jamesy12345;772738]an EU referendum..can't wait...you can hear them wriggling already.[COLOR="#FF0000"] Is Cameron up to it, to be leader of a separate UK? Not IMO.[/COLOR][/QUOTE] So who is, in your opinion?

Post 772753 by Harvey on 2015-05-12 18:35:00

[QUOTE=Orca2;772732]If there was no Nigel who would kick Cameron's arse to make the EU referendum straight and fair? Clegg will be back after the summer , he is a straight bloke.[/QUOTE] Clegg is going nowhere as he's on the payroll for the next 5 years..

Post 772757 by Orca2 on 2015-05-12 18:58:53

[QUOTE=stribo;772747]So who is, in your opinion?[/QUOTE] Someone who is elected by a majority of the votes cast would be a good start. Yet again the country is being run by a leader who can only muster a small percentage of the vote, the majority of those who were eligible to vote either voted against him or didn't vote at all. This ain't no democracy .

Post 772762 by Harvey on 2015-05-12 19:03:25

[QUOTE=Orca2;772757]Someone who is elected by a majority of the votes cast would be a good start. Yet again the country is being run by a leader who can only muster a small percentage of the vote, the majority of those who were eligible to vote either voted against him or didn't vote at all. This ain't no democracy .[/QUOTE] But the PM did get the most votes to win his seat !.

Post 772767 by jamesy12345 on 2015-05-12 19:19:24

[QUOTE=Harvey;772762]But the PM did get the most votes to win his seat !.[/QUOTE] true but they 'only' got 51% of the seats https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=election%20results I don't know about numbers of votes but the above means a good portion of the population didn't vote for the guy. If Labour hadn't made stupid comments about the SNP they would have got more votes their way.

Post 772769 by stribo on 2015-05-12 19:23:22

[QUOTE=Orca2;772757]Someone who is elected by a majority of the votes cast would be a good start. Yet again the country is being run by a leader who can only muster a small percentage of the vote, the majority of those who were eligible to vote either voted against him or didn't vote at all. This ain't no democracy .[/QUOTE] Who was the last leader voted in by the majority of voters?

Post 772772 by Harvey on 2015-05-12 19:30:12

[QUOTE=jamesy12345;772767]true but they 'only' got 51% of the seats https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=election%20results I don't know about numbers of votes but the above means a good portion of the population didn't vote for the guy. If Labour hadn't made stupid comments about the SNP they would have got more votes their way.[/QUOTE] But it's now water under the bridge. Just wondering if we could keep the up for the next 4 years 360 days or we might all get tired of this.

Post 772775 by Orca2 on 2015-05-12 19:36:28

[QUOTE=stribo;772769]Who was the last leader voted in by the majority of voters?[/QUOTE] Nicola Sturgeon . The point is the electoral system delivers leaders who the majority of voters specifically did not want . This is not a political point , it is a constitutional one. Our electoral system is an ancient relic that only ever worked when there were two parties. Case in point .. UKIP got nearly 4 million votes and one seat. It takes on average 24,000 votes to elect a Tory MP and 4 million to elect a UKIP MP. No matter what your political leanings are this doesn't sound fair. Ps I never get bored with politics,

Post 772778 by Harvey on 2015-05-12 19:40:23

Post 772779 by Orca2 on 2015-05-12 19:42:44

I will try harder lol.

Post 772780 by Harvey on 2015-05-12 19:44:13

I know the last government did put to vote to change the way the votes are worked but it was voted to stay the same as it's been. So surely that is part of a democratic process.

Post 772783 by Orca2 on 2015-05-12 19:50:28

I dont think an awful lot of people actually knew what they were voting for, I run into people all the time who dont even know that we have not had a government that actually represents the votes of an actual majority for about fifty years or more. The whole PR debate will ignite a bit now , but Cameron aint gonna change it , he has already set about the boundary changes to ensure he wins another. 20 seats next time around , getting the contentious stuff done at the start of his term .

Post 772784 by stribo on 2015-05-12 19:50:47

[QUOTE=Orca2;772775]Nicola Sturgeon . The point is the electoral system delivers leaders who the majority of voters specifically did not want . This is not a political point , it is a constitutional one. Our electoral system is an ancient relic that only ever worked when there were two parties. Case in point .. UKIP got nearly 4 million votes and one seat. It takes on average 24,000 votes to elect a Tory MP and 4 million to elect a UKIP MP. No matter what your political leanings are this doesn't sound fair. Ps I never get bored with politics,[/QUOTE] Nicola Sturgeon? a majority in a country that only has a devolved government, and still answers to Westminster. Maybe if all the Scots were that keen on having their leader actually lead them, they'd have voted for independence, or was that vote rigged too? Did you happen to bring up these constitutional points when the SNP were nowhere, or Blair was voted in, I doubt it.

Post 772787 by Orca2 on 2015-05-12 20:05:15

I have always, seen the unfairness of the first past the post system, you presume that I am Left wing in my outlook. I am not. I was a member of the Scottish Conservative party twenty five years ago. I have levelled every criticism of our system against every government since , not least of All Blair, who was imho one of the most slimy creatures ever to crawl out of the swamp into Westminster. And I will keep criticising this system until it is replaced with one that is democratic. FYI the SNP would have won the majority of the Scottish seats under any electoral system, they won more than 50 % of the votes cast. And MSP's are elected using a PR system which gives a much fairer share of the seats to each party. Are you really arguing that a system that gives a party one seat when they polled 4 million votes is democratic? Really? Ps I have not suggested that the vote was rigged, perhaps you have more information than I. I am stating that the electoral system is undemocratic. Pps Scotland doesnt "just have a devolved government " we have a devolved government in addition to Westminster government, we are for the time being still equal members of the Union. Our MP's are still voted for under FPP. and that is why 56 out of 59 seats were won on just over 50% of the vote.. Which is no fairer than Cameron or Blair winning a majority on about 30% of the vote.

Post 772841 by Jimmie on 2015-05-12 22:08:57

[QUOTE=Orca2;772787]. I was a member of the Scottish Conservative party twenty five years ago./QUOTE] I didn't realise you were that old. I thought you were still a spring chicken.:)

Post 772847 by Orca2 on 2015-05-12 22:13:07

I am 51 this year , but I look and feel about 70, I know it is better to burn out than fade away, Just couldnt get the matches to work .

Post 772849 by Jimmie on 2015-05-12 22:15:11

Oh well at 51 you still haven't lived yet!!

Post 772851 by Orca2 on 2015-05-12 22:18:07

Actually I hadnt even noticed what an old fart I had become , but I have a teenager, they tell you about eight times a day. What with the constant repetition and all , I find it easier to just agree. Little barsteward.

Post 772862 by S40kieran on 2015-05-12 22:43:06

[QUOTE=jamesy12345;772738]an EU referendum..can't wait...you can hear them wriggling already. Is Cameron up to it, to be leader of a separate UK? Not IMO.[/QUOTE] James I think that EU vote will be the unravelling of them he's talking about reform and has been for ages, so we are going to have another Scottish referendum thing all over again and we know how that's panned out not good for the rest of the uk, he can't debate which is another issue, he ducks open debates I think in the commons were going to see his metal, now salmond is in there he's swimming with a shark and someone who can debate and hold his ground. Personally I think they will implode the next leader osbourne is another that can't debate. He can be sarcastic and we all know that's the lowest form of wit.