XC90 brakes on a V70 with 17" wheels... What do we recon? Worth a go? 336mm disks, mahoooosive calipers, 17" Ameltheas.... Hmmmmmm.....
Ermm.... why not measure the gap between the current discs and the wheel first?.. presuming it's got 302's on it (or where the later cars bigger?) then you have a starting point and you can work out your clearance.
Not to sure as the S60R with 17" Pegasus rims there is only a 3-4mm gap from rim to calipers.
[QUOTE=Tomcat;627738]Ermm.... why not measure the gap between the current discs and the wheel first?.. presuming it's got 302's on it (or where the later cars bigger?) then you have a starting point and you can work out your clearance.[/QUOTE] 305mm mate :) [QUOTE=Harvey;627740]Not to sure as the S60R with 17" Pegasus rims there is only a 3-4mm gap from rim to calipers.[/QUOTE] Indeed, this thought has crossed my mind...
305mm on the left, 336 on the right...
[QUOTE=M-R-P;627741]305mm mate :) Indeed, this thought has crossed my mind...[/QUOTE] But is the steel caliper smaller than the alloy ones on the R's or just get a set from a R !.
[QUOTE=M-R-P;627742]305mm on the left, 336 on the right...
[/QUOTE]
Do you have the calipers aswell
[QUOTE=Harvey;627745]Do you have the calipers aswell[/QUOTE] Maaaayyybe :D
I have 320's under my amaltheas and 336mm XC90 carriers ready for when they next need changing. Happy to send you the carriers if you want to try it (you will need the calipers obviously). Plod T5's (320mm) and 316mm or 336mm XC90 discs all used the same enormous calipers. There is a lot of room under amaltheas even with my 320's. Tim Williams sourced my current set and the set on my T5.
So, the main opinion is that I should give it a go...?
Hows this then?
I've painted the calipers since the test fit :D
Stay tuned, I'll be fitting them this week.
Did you have to drill the hub out ? was it alloy or steel ? Looking good :)
[QUOTE=oblark;627786]Did you have to drill the hub out ? was it alloy or steel ? Looking good :)[/QUOTE] It was just a test - fit mate. I put the 12mm bolts through and sat it on them. It'll need drilling tho, not a problem, there's plenty of meat on the hub. Still haven't decided if it's ally or steel - I didn't check lol.
Hub is aluminium and easy to drill. However, the steering deflectors are steel and I blunted several expensive 14mm bits before taking them to friend who used a very slow pillar drill which just glided through. All my drills at home are way to fast for steel.
336mm work well on my 850, people keep telling me its impossible to fit them under Volans..... Hope you get them sorted.
[QUOTE=jardon;627791]Hub is aluminium and easy to drill. However, the steering deflectors are steel and I blunted several expensive 14mm bits before taking them to friend who used a very slow pillar drill which just glided through. All my drills at home are way to fast for steel.[/QUOTE] Hehe! I have the steering deflectors to go with the calipers :D However... I work in maintenance for a big steel fabrication firm so I have access to a plethora of industrial-strength toys ;) [QUOTE=Nealevo;627792]336mm work well on my 850, people keep telling me its impossible to fit them under Volans..... Hope you get them sorted.[/QUOTE] Nothing's impossible, merely expensive (not always expensive - I got this kit for a very good price ;)) It's just a matter of drilling the hub and plumbing it all in. I hope to get at least one side done tonight. Pics to follow :) Good effort getting them under Volans, that must be bloody tight. I don't remember noticing the brakes when I saw your car tho mate - sorry.
Hope it all goes well mate, may have to look into doing this to the C70. BTW if you haven't already, it's the ideal opportunity to upgrade to braided hoses.
[QUOTE=stribo;627802]Hope it all goes well mate, may have to look into doing this to the C70. BTW if you haven't already, it's the ideal opportunity to upgrade to braided hoses.[/QUOTE] Do try to keep up mate lol... Linky I'm hoping that, since the new calipers have the hose connection in roughly the same place AND they are slightly closer to the inner arch, I can reuse my braided hoses and maintain the bling factor :)
Looking forward to seeing how you get on, hopefully no problems.
If I have any trouble, it'll be with the brake hoses. I have the XC90 hoses that came with the calipers but they look far too long for a lowered V70.
good mod. youll notice a huge difference.
[QUOTE=M-R-P;627807]Do try to keep up mate lol... Linky I'm hoping that, since the new calipers have the hose connection in roughly the same place AND they are slightly closer to the inner arch, I can reuse my braided hoses and maintain the bling factor :)[/QUOTE] I did day if you hadn't already done it, obviously you have.
Can you let us all know if the bigger brakes make any decernible different to steering and suspension feel? I don't know what the weight difference is (maybe you could weigh the items too and post up the comparative figures) but I'm just thinking of the increased unsprung weight and if it'll be at all noticeable.
[QUOTE=Gold 'N' Brown;627863]Can you let us all know if the bigger brakes make any decernible different to steering and suspension feel? I don't know what the weight difference is (maybe you could weigh the items too and post up the comparative figures) but I'm just thinking of the increased unsprung weight and if it'll be at all noticeable.[/QUOTE] At a guess, I'd say you'll be looking at about 1.5Kg extra per side but I'll try to weigh it all when I fit it. (although that means I'll have to finally put batteries in the scales and I'll have no excuse not to weigh myself lol)
I think they're gonna be a bit tight with my comets. Surely if Neal has managed with Volans? They are hoooge Martin, they'll do the job!
[QUOTE=Biff;627904]I think they're gonna be a bit tight with my comets. Surely if Neal has managed with Volans? They are hoooge Martin, they'll do the job![/QUOTE] I believe Mr. Evo has different calipers to the ones I'm using. Work will begin later tonight so I may have a result later, if I get it all finished :D. I won't be starting til after 8pm so I don't know how much I'll get done tbh.
Scrap yard to look at various cars me thinks. :) I like the lets see if they fit game. Lol
I prefer the "Make it fit" game ;)
anything can be made to fit. what did you use to clean and paint the calipers
Effort and a wire brush, followed by some Halfrauds High-temp paint. I did the hub section of the discs too, for effect :)
im disapointed that they arnt gay blue. whats going on mr mrp
I haven't used gay blue for over a year dude. Should've gone to specavers lol.
Do they fit? Lol I'm still researching & digging. Think a trip to wrexham motoring supplies is in order to see what wears big carriers & calipers. :)
they will fit. its a mod thats been done befor. might of been on t5d5
Did it work?
Here's tonight's fun...
First, got the old caliper and disk off and drilled the stub axle to 14mm (carefully)...
New caliper next to old...
Fitted and bled...
Well hells-bells, I had time to do the other side!
A quick test drive found that they were a bit soft. I put this down to 3 possibilities...
1. They need another bleed (I did only do a quick bleed)
2. They need bedding - in (they only had about 1000 miles on them but even if I put the right pads on the right disks, the positioning won't be the same and they were a bit rusty.)
3. The bigger piston means more pedal travel might be needed.
I'm inclined to think it's a combination of 1 & 2 but I do know that when you hit the stop-pedal hard, you leave dental records in the steering wheel!
Result!
Wanna see my new bling?
sure?
Nom nom!
Sweet.
[QUOTE=jardon;628071]Sweet.[/QUOTE] My thoughts exactly lol.
They look good, but I'd have painted the calipers a different colour so they stood out more.;)
I have got to get me some of these!! They look awesome & once theyre bedded in & bled properly i can see your front bumper doing endo's. Carriers can me made by my man in work so looking for some decent calipers now. :)
[QUOTE=stribo;628093]They look good, but I'd have painted the calipers a different colour so they stood out more.;)[/QUOTE] Thanks, I didn't want them to stand out too much (and the missus wouldn't let me paint them yellow lol) [QUOTE=Biff;628094]I have got to get me some of these!! They look awesome & once theyre bedded in & bled properly i can see your front bumper doing endo's. Carriers can me made by my man in work so looking for some decent calipers now. :)[/QUOTE] I believe Neal is using Audi calipers on his, might be worth some investigation.
Looking good mate, hopefully after bedding in properly they'll be spot on.
Excellent work Martin. Can't beat good brakes, can remember fitting escort cosworth brakes on my mk3 fiesta, made a right difference. Looks like I'll be searching local scrap yards soon
nice work sir...:bounce:
Still a little work to be done - the dust guards are rubbing a bit but that's nowt that I can't cure by hand. Mrs. M-R-P came out to inspect the work when I finished, and displayed her usual indifference to what I'd done. Although there was an air of concern regarding the reliability/safety of the setup. Bloody woman lol.
looks good and once bedded in i bet youll never look back.
[QUOTE=graemewelch;628126]looks good and once bedded in i bet youll never look back.[/QUOTE] Only when reversing mate lol. Must go and change my sig...
nice one mart! needs some nice wheels now! ;)
[QUOTE=M-R-P;628121]Still a little work to be done - the dust guards are rubbing a bit but that's nowt that I can't cure by hand. Mrs. M-R-P came out to inspect the work when I finished, and displayed her usual indifference to what I'd done. Although there was an air of concern regarding the reliability/safety of the setup. Bloody woman lol.[/QUOTE] Big noticeable modification you done there, on a serious note, have you declared it to your insurance company? When I fitted the Porsche setup on my old C70 the insurance didn't go up, but they said if I hadn't of declared it I wouldn't of been covered. Some companies apparently look at it that you may drive quicker due to thinking you can stop later etc. Mike.
Well done martin........a good upgrade..........welcome to the big brake club
nice one!
[QUOTE=T5RatherAmusin;628221]nice one mart! needs some nice wheels now! ;)[/QUOTE] Anybody wanna swap some sparkly black ameltheas for a set of 18" Ixions? :D [QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;628225]Big noticeable modification you done there, on a serious note, have you declared it to your insurance company? When I fitted the Porsche setup on my old C70 the insurance didn't go up, but they said if I hadn't of declared it I wouldn't of been covered. Some companies apparently look at it that you may drive quicker due to thinking you can stop later etc. Mike.[/QUOTE] Here's my logic with this one... All the parts are genuine Volvo, the calipers are what you'd find on any post-2004 P2 and the disks aren't noticeably larger than the 320mm ones you'd find on the later models too. Also, the V70R/S60R uses brakes (nearly) the same size so theoretically, I'm using parts that could have been fitted from the factory and therefore won't be considered a "performance upgrade" When you added the Porsche brakes, you were adding 3rd party performance parts, that's probably why they said they'd not validate the policy.
i know of some rs rims going cheap. youve realy turned that car into somthing very nice. the car is a credit to you and hard work youve put into it realy shows.
[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;628225]When I fitted the Porsche setup on my old C70 the insurance didn't go up, but they said if I hadn't of declared it I wouldn't of been covered. Some companies apparently look at it that you may drive quicker due to thinking you can stop later etc. [/QUOTE] You did the right thing. Insurance is never straight forward IMO. Some would see this as a positive measure, as it's improving safety (though probably wouldn't be gracious enought to lower your premium), some would simply see it as a performance mod and therefore increases risk, as per any performance mod :rolleyes: And some may take the attitude that such a critical safety aspect of the car should be either fitted, or at least approved (i.e. MOT) by a certified mechanic. If in doubt, call it out! [QUOTE=M-R-P;628229] Here's my logic with this one... All the parts are genuine Volvo, the calipers are what you'd find on any post-2004 P2 and the disks aren't noticeably larger than the 320mm ones you'd find on the later models too. Also, the V70R/S60R uses brakes (nearly) the same size so theoretically, I'm using parts that could have been fitted from the factory and therefore won't be considered a "performance upgrade" When you added the Porsche brakes, you were adding 3rd party performance parts, that's probably why they said they'd not validate the policy.[/QUOTE] That's a dangerous assumption. And you know what they say about assumptions being the mother of all f*** ups :wink: I assume you've already got a modified car policy as you've got quite a few changes made to your V70, so chances are this change wouldn't even make a difference to the policy. But if it's not declared, it gives them a get out clause. Now I know there's the old argument of "Not my fault guv, the car came like that when I bought it, I was none the wiser!" but has there ever been a precedent made for that holding up in the event of an insurer voiding a policy due to undeclared mods? Risky turf to be on. Unfortunately, the very bottom line of it is that regardless of whether the fitted parts are genuine Volvo, if it didn't roll off the production line like that, then the changes should be declared. In the real world, of course it's often unrealistic or impractical (should I declare the fact that I've just replaced my top mount with the later design with the square bush?). When I wrote my Saab off back in 2010, the assesor spent 5 minutes giving it a quick glance over. Never even opened the bonnet. I could have had anything going on under there! As it happens it was a bone stock car, but he wasn't to know that. So in the real world, it doesn't always make a bloomin bit of difference. But there's always the risk that you'll have to make a claim, and the car will be inpsected by a tw@tty little jobs worth who is fed up with his crappy life and hasn't had his end away in months, and he decides to pick up on your undeclared modifications. Just sayin :Handshake
Good point well made mate, thanks :)
[QUOTE=M-R-P;628236]Good point well made mate, thanks :)[/QUOTE] wasnt trying to put a downer on all your hard work, would just hate for you to get stung, we all know what insurance companies are like. Like I said, mine didn't go up anyway, so I'm sure yours wouldn't either, so best just to mention it. Re reading your thread though, wouldn't drilling out the housing to 14mm or whatever make the bracket or whatever it is weaker now?
This kit came from a S60R with 330+bhp which regularly slowed from high speeds very quickly ;) It was fitted in the same way as I fitted it to mine. Realistically, I've only removed 1mm of metal. I wouldn't have fitted it if I wasn't 100% sure it'll be safe.
[QUOTE=stribo;627802]Hope it all goes well mate, [COLOR="#FF0000"]may have to look into doing this to the C70.[/COLOR] BTW if you haven't already, it's the ideal opportunity to upgrade to braided hoses.[/QUOTE] The only big brakes that will fit the C70 is the renault brembos which I`m running.
Nice mod there Martin :D The 336s dwarf the 305 discs and calipers, makes you think how on earth the older 280mm discs actually manage to stop my car :S
ooooooohhhhh me likey!!!! maybe a good rear brake conversion for the volvaxo! ha ha :P well done m-r-p excellent result!
They've started bedding - in a bit :D Oh my! they're quite effective lol.
[QUOTE=M-R-P;628068]Did it work?
Here's tonight's fun...
First, got the old caliper and disk off and drilled the stub axle to 14mm (carefully)...
New caliper next to old...
Fitted and bled...
Well hells-bells, I had time to do the other side!
A quick test drive found that they were a bit soft. I put this down to 3 possibilities...
1. They need another bleed (I did only do a quick bleed)
2. They need bedding - in (they only had about 1000 miles on them but even if I put the right pads on the right disks, the positioning won't be the same and they were a bit rusty.)
3. The bigger piston means more pedal travel might be needed.
I'm inclined to think it's a combination of 1 & 2 but I do know that when you hit the stop-pedal hard, you leave dental records in the steering wheel!
Result!
Wanna see my new bling?
sure?
Nom nom![/QUOTE]
Nice mod u nutter.With the soft,let it bed in 1st and bleed again if needed.Great job there mate.
[QUOTE=Kingsford G;628378]Nice mod u nutter.With the soft,let it bed in 1st and bleed again if needed.Great job there mate.[/QUOTE] Thanks KG. I'll wait till the disks are clean (there's some faint pitting where they were stored somewhere damp for a while) then flush the system and fill it with dot 5.
[QUOTE=M-R-P;628379]Thanks KG. I'll wait till the disks are clean (there's some faint pitting where they were stored somewhere damp for a while) then flush the system and fill it with dot 5.[/QUOTE] I had a right nightmare with the pedal when changed my hoses,disks and pads and then thought sod it and lets run them in and a few hundred miles later the pedal is perfect and I only used DOT4.
[QUOTE=Kingsford G;628383]I had a right nightmare with the pedal when changed my hoses,disks and pads and then thought sod it and lets run them in and a few hundred miles later the pedal is perfect and I only used DOT4.[/QUOTE] Supposed to be dot 4.1 as standard mate. Although, I've got Dot 4 in mine at the moment lol.
...it does look good..
[QUOTE=JUDGENINJA;628398]...it does look good..[/QUOTE] ...but?... (there's usually a but and I recon I know what it is ;))
Nope... Honestly it does look good... I can do without sarcasm sometimes. (Although XC90 means you'll be putting your suspension back to ultra lift to give your 4x4 look)
Looking really cool Martin, I like it a lot :smile:
[QUOTE=JUDGENINJA;628409]Nope... Honestly it does look good... I can do without sarcasm sometimes. (Although XC90 means you'll be putting your suspension back to ultra lift to give your 4x4 look)[/QUOTE] Lol, I was wrong then :D Without wanting to sound like Frankie but I have the lowest P2 V70 on the forum and she's staying that way :B_steerin
[QUOTE=M-R-P;628429]Lol, I was wrong then :D Without wanting to sound like Frankie but I have the lowest P2 V70 on the forum and she's staying that way :B_steerin[/QUOTE] are you sure its not james whos the lowest. hes lowered his. oh no cant be hes left us
[QUOTE=M-R-P;628429]Lol, I was wrong then :D Without wanting to sound like Frankie but I have the lowest P2 V70 on the forum and she's staying that way :B_steerin[/QUOTE] I've got the lowest C70 on the forum.:D
[QUOTE=graemewelch;628436]are you sure its not james whos the lowest. hes lowered his. oh no cant be hes left us[/QUOTE] Nope - his wasn't as low as mine (we parked them side by side) only a few mm in it tho. [QUOTE=stribo;628438]I've got the lowest C70 on the forum.:D[/QUOTE] until the MOT man says no ;)
[QUOTE=M-R-P;628393]Supposed to be dot 4.1 as standard mate. Although, I've got Dot 4 in mine at the moment lol.[/QUOTE] From what I read recently, there's not a great deal of difference between 4 and 4.1, and 4 is fine for our cars. I wish I could dig out what I was reading as I can't remember the specifics now, and a quick google doesn't throw it up. Typical. I think it was something to do with 4.1 having a higher boiling point only at different levels of water saturation. Or in other words, it would be superior to DOT4 once moisture starts to get absorbed in to it. But I might be way off! I hapened across the info after having a brief panic when I realised I'd ordered DOT 4 fluid instead of DOT 4.1.
Well done........305mm were a bit small considering the cars weight ;-)
[QUOTE=M-R-P;628393]Supposed to be dot 4.1 as standard mate. Although, I've got Dot 4 in mine at the moment lol.[/QUOTE] Apparently Motul RBF600 is supposed to be good
Full system bleed yesterday with Dot 5.1 and I must say, considering it's only been in there 18 months, the brake fluid was rancid - dark and had bits in it (coagulated water?). Flushed it right through, including the clutch and the performance of the brake and clutch feels much cleaner and so far, I've not had the weird heavy clutch thing that I've been getting on random occasions. On the downside, It looks like the pads are shot in my new big brakes so there's yet another expense I can do without :( Hey - ho, onwards and upwards.
OUt of interest, what method did you use to bleed the clutch? I've read about the pitfalls of certain methods. Saw a very simple and interesting way recently called reverse flushing, where you pump fluid back in through the bleed nipple using one of those old handheld oil tins.
Gravity bleed mate - I had to because there was nobody else around to help. I also have access to a venturi bleeder that sucks the fluid out through a nipple attachment and dumps it in a sealed container. You can also use it to remove engine oil through the dipstick tube... Handy when you can't even get your arm under the engine.
[QUOTE=Gold 'N' Brown;630408]OUt of interest, what method did you use to bleed the clutch? I've read about the pitfalls of certain methods. Saw a very simple and interesting way recently called reverse flushing, where you pump fluid back in through the bleed nipple using one of those old handheld oil tins.[/QUOTE] NEVER vacuum bleed a clutch. i learnt the hard way. i siezes up the slave cylinder.
Funny you should say that, I had a similar problem when bleeding someone elses clutch. It didn't seize up but the pedal hit the floor and took ages to get it back. Thought I was right in the doo-doo :(
[QUOTE=M-R-P;630284]Full system bleed yesterday with Dot 5.1 and I must say, considering it's only been in there 18 months, the brake fluid was rancid - dark and had bits in it (coagulated water?). Flushed it right through, including the clutch and the performance of the brake and clutch feels much cleaner and so far, I've not had the weird heavy clutch thing that I've been getting on random occasions. On the downside, It looks like the pads are shot in my new big brakes so there's yet another expense I can do without :( Hey - ho, onwards and upwards.[/QUOTE] that's why volvo recommend brake fluid to be changed every 2 years as part of the servicing schedule.
[QUOTE=partsforvolvos.com;630688]that's why volvo recommend brake fluid to be changed every 2 years as part of the servicing schedule.[/QUOTE] I wasn't aware of that, thanks Jamie :) It's made a hell of a difference, just need to sort the pads now and I'm larfin'. There's rumors that the pads from the 320 setup will fit. Is that the case and if so, are they any cheaper? (I doubt it but times is 'ard lol)
i don't know if they would, i've never compared them to be honest. my mintex part numbers are different though , which probably means no. - the aftermarket pads often cover more than 1 volvo e number. classic example > there is no reason whatso ever for volvo to have 272343 and 9485267 for 302mm pads - they are the same size !!!!!! I'm sure we can sort something out for you. - will pads made out of jelly be ok?
I'd prefer pads made from Toblerone please :)
Shame mine don't fit, he could have had them, I don't go fast enough to use brakes :redface:
gearbox braking- that's an advanced driving technique as long as it is not 5th to first !!!
[QUOTE=partsforvolvos.com;630716]gearbox braking- that's an advanced driving technique as long as it is not 5th to first !!![/QUOTE] Doesn't work very well with the halfwit autobox on the starlet too :D
My new pads arrived this morning :)
Big thanks to Jamie at PFV for getting them here so quick.
Fitting them later, hopefully, it'll cure my clicky brake problem!
Ooooh, shiny! Try to get some detailed pics as to the old pads problem. That will give me a head start with trying to sort my clicky brakes.
So your bigger brakes don't a actually work properly. :slap: I guess 330mm discs, and 4 pot calipers are better then.:)
[QUOTE=stribo;631757]So your bigger brakes don't a actually work properly. :slap: I guess 330mm discs, and 4 pot calipers are better then.:)[/QUOTE] They work fine thanks, they just click a bit because the pads are a little damaged. [QUOTE=silverhorse;631752]Ooooh, shiny! Try to get some detailed pics as to the old pads problem. That will give me a head start with trying to sort my clicky brakes.[/QUOTE] Will do mate.
[QUOTE=M-R-P;631758]They work fine thanks, they just click a bit because the pads are a little damaged. Will do mate.[/QUOTE] i wanted to see that as well, what is wrong with them ?
[QUOTE=partsforvolvos.com;631798]i wanted to see that as well, what is wrong with them ?[/QUOTE] The "fin" on the outer pad, that locks into the retaining spring has been stretched, causing the pad to shift (I hope that's what it is any way or I've just wasted a few quid as there's loads of meat left on the old pads)
weird- i nearly did send you some new retaining springs as well. never heard of the pad doing that before
Reading this thread with great interest, need new brakes in the very,very near future....
its not so easy to do on the phase on. its needs some brackets. its something i was wanting to do but i scraped the bub cause couldnt get a caliper and wasnt much intrest
££££... I was wondering if it'd fit the ph1's, want bigger brakes but I dont want the expense of fitting Porsche stuff.
Oblark's running 230mm with brembo 4-pots from a megane 225. Just needs some brackets making up. Jamie - The pads look like someone tried forcing them out without removing the retaining clip - stretching the fin and nearly breaking the rivet.
[QUOTE=M-R-P;631834]Oblark's running 230mm with brembo 4-pots from a megane 225. Just needs some brackets making up.[/QUOTE] I'd sooner burn it than fit Renault stuff to it,lol..... It's got 302's fitted anyway, or did you mean to type 330?..
so the pads have been muppet'ed in the past. well, those spring clips are quite strong on the xc90 ............
oops - I mean 330 (doing 3 things at once lol) Ignore where they came from, they're still Brembo calipers and as such, good quality. I believe Neal is using some old Audi calipers for his 336mm conversion.
[QUOTE=partsforvolvos.com;631837]so the pads have been muppet'ed in the past. well, those spring clips are quite strong on the xc90 ............[/QUOTE] Yep. There's no way the pad can be removed without pulling the retaining spring as it locks through it.
As you can see, the old pad was forcing the retaining spring outward...
New pad fitted...
And the retaining spring correctly fitted...
The old pad...
You can see the broken rivet...
The annoying click has now gone which is brilliant but the best bit is, the Mintex pads are bloody amazing compared to the old ones. Loads of bite and a very precise feel.
Very pleased M-R-P.
Winner winner chicken dinner ! Glad your all sorted mate.
Me too. It was hard enough selling the idea to the missus but when the only notable difference was a worrying click... Bloody he'll are they good now!
[QUOTE=M-R-P;630692]I wasn't aware of that, thanks Jamie :) It's made a hell of a difference, just need to sort the pads now and I'm larfin'. There's rumors that the pads from the 320 setup will fit. Is that the case and if so, are they any cheaper? (I doubt it but times is 'ard lol)[/QUOTE] Same pads and calipers for 316, 320 and 336mm discs.