as i was only 2 miles away from this this morning i thought it would be rude not to have a gander, there was a couple of tuned s60rs making around 340bhp, chris made 330bhp and ed 275ish, my car made a nice 298.1 bhp which was nice lol ***Pictures Removed***
nice one, 1.9bhp from the magic 300bhp. Turn the boost up another notch lol
[quote=p fandango;424778]nice one, 1.9bhp from the magic 300bhp. Turn the boost up another notch lol[/quote] i did for the 2nd run (5 notches lol) but that run was in 4th and only made 290 bhp as opposed to the first run that was in 5th and 298bhp
man that blue beast is some sexy s*it mate
that laser blue one only did one run at 200bhp, something was wrong?
[quote=t5frankie;424780]i did for the 2nd run (5 notches lol) but that run was in 4th and only made 290 bhp as opposed to the first run that was in 5th and 298bhp[/quote] Why did they do the run in 5th?
[quote=p fandango;424784]my mistake, your only 0.9bhp off. Why did they do the run in 5th?[/quote] they was doing them all in 5th first then 4th after and it is 1.9 mate lol, some got better results in 4th some in 5th, it hit 162.5mph on the rollers lol
[quote=t5frankie;424785]they was doing them all in 5th first then 4th after and it is 1.9 mate lol, some got better results in 4th some in 5th, it hit 162.5mph on the rollers lol[/quote] sorry i'm on the Stella's already, i did edit my post but you must of been already replying lol. 4th is the closest to 1:1 which is why its normally done in that gear
What has been done to yours to get 300bhp? I need to find out what mine is putting out but scared of it being dissapointed... I have had 158mph on my sat nav though and it was still going before I thought I saw a police man and did a rasin in my super man boxer shorts. It's not an AWD unfortunately but she's got some poke with boost turned up and de-cat etc...
Nice figures mate, was you expecting more? Not bad for a second hand engine! Still... way to catch up with Dean yet :)
I'm confused here frankie, are these all at the flywheel figures apart from eds? As his is an auto, his has to be at the wheels.
[quote=The Flying Moose;424790]Nice figures mate, was you expecting more? Not bad for a second hand engine! Still... way to catch up with Dean yet :)[/quote] not really mate only 20 bhp and i reckon with my boost at 22psi i'll have that easy, getting it custom mapped soon enough. expecting less mate as its on a standard map now as swapped mine with adam280 last week
[quote=LiamT4;424799]I'm confused here frankie, are these all at the flywheel figures apart from eds? As his is an auto, his has to be at the wheels.[/quote] flywheel figures mate he told me 270 something when i asked him that will be bhp not whp. bring on the 1/4 mile next year should have an easy 330bhp+
[quote=p fandango;424787]sorry i'm on the Stella's already, i did edit my post but you must of been already replying lol. 4th is the closest to 1:1 which is why its normally done in that gear[/quote] hamish done them in 3rd
[quote=LiamT4;424799]I'm confused here frankie, are these all at the flywheel figures apart from eds? As his is an auto, his has to be at the wheels.[/quote] I'm pretty sure that ed's figure has not been measured at the wheels.....275 bhp come on!!! As not many people can do autos they work out a rough average and give you an estimated figure. Well done on your bhp figure frankie.
[quote=tim15888;424789]What has been done to yours to get 300bhp? I need to find out what mine is putting out but scared of it being dissapointed... I have had 158mph on my sat nav though and it was still going before I thought I saw a police man and did a rasin in my super man boxer shorts. It's not an AWD unfortunately but she's got some poke with boost turned up and de-cat etc...[/quote] fwd is better mate than awd
What sort of power figures did everyone else get? Do you know what sort of wheel horse power you and other people got.
So that means eds has more power than yours then as his is 275@wheels. I much prefer when these are done at the wheels, as theres enough variables as it is when it comes to dyno runs without not knowing the at the wheel figures. Remember that a dyno measures the power at the wheels, not the engine, then the software converts that into engine power.
[quote=Jim S70R;424803]I'm pretty sure that ed's figure has not been measured at the wheels.....275 bhp come on!!! As not many people can do autos they work out a rough average and give you an estimated figure. Well done on your bhp figure frankie.[/quote] I know it does sound high. All autos should be at the wheels, there shouldn't be any estimating involved, you stick it in 3rd and press the winter button, that way its locks into 3rd. As the dyno measures power at the wheel and not at the engine there should be only one figure you can use.
[quote=LiamT4;424806]So that means eds has more power than yours then as his is 275@wheels. I much prefer when these are done at the wheels, as theres enough variables as it is when it comes to dyno runs without not knowing the at the wheel figures. Remember that a dyno measures the power at the wheels, not the engine, then the software converts that into engine power.[/quote] i've already said that the runs were done in top gear flat out, and his car never in a million years has 275bhp at the wheels thats more than deans
[quote=t5frankie;424785]they was doing them all in 5th first then 4th after and it is 1.9 mate lol, some got better results in 4th some in 5th, it hit 162.5mph on the rollers lol[/quote] My first run was done in 3rd, my second in 5th. I think this was the same for everyone with the 5 speed boxes, except you it seems? Odd.
[quote=t5frankie;424804]fwd is better mate than awd[/quote] Yea... AWD saps alot of power spinning the transfer box and all them extra shafts up! FWD is better for power but not handeling, or getting off the line in the wet haha. Mine is useless in the rain
there was also a seat leon that made 208bhp
[quote=Stedman;424814]My first run was done in 3rd, my second in 5th. I think this was the same for everyone with the 5 speed boxes, except you it seems? Odd.[/quote] what was your best reading in 3rd or 5th?
Well done some very good results
[quote=t5frankie;424818]what was your best reading in 3rd or 5th?[/quote] 5th.
[quote=Stedman;424827]5th.[/quote] what did you get mate with what mods?
[quote=Stedman;424827]5th.[/quote] How did you get on buddy?
http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/17089-dyno-day-12th-november-2011-marlin-motor-engineers/page__st__220
[quote=bigrotch;424781]man that blue beast is some sexy s*it mate[/quote] ^This man speaks the truth. [quote=t5frankie;424782]that laser blue one only did one run at 200bhp, something was wrong?[/quote] The one run the AWD did was the "calibration" run. While the car was running back down after that there was a clunk and the car shuddered. I've noticed similar sometimes coming in to roundabouts and its definitely from the back of the car. The AWD system works perfectly though which is whats confusing me. Gonna run it past the friendly people at my local dealership on Monday. The last time the car was dynod it made 258.8WHP. Nothing has changed since then, so I was expecting a similar figure. Still, its good to know it made 200 just on the calibration ;)
[quote=Villan;424841]^This man speaks the truth. The one run the AWD did was the "calibration" run. While the car was running back down after that there was a clunk and the car shuddered. I've noticed similar sometimes coming in to roundabouts and its definitely from the back of the car. The AWD system works perfectly though which is whats confusing me. Gonna run it past the friendly people at my local dealership on Monday. The last time the car was dynod it made 258.8WHP. Nothing has changed since then, so I was expecting a similar figure. Still, its good to know it made 200 just on the calibration ;)[/quote] i heard that noise too mate, what mods you running for that power?
[quote=t5frankie;424844]i heard that noise too mate, what mods you running for that power?[/quote] BSR310 and Jetex from the mid-box back. Standard other than that. Would have been interesting to know what it is putting down, but hey, maybe next year!
Looks like a nice collection of cars attended. Good to see Ed's making good power, I'd have popped along to this, without the car obviously, for a lookie had I have known about it... Be nice to see what the wheel hp readings were for the cars, blue 2.4 AWD R looks lovely, shame you had to abort your run 258 hp at the wheels is very good especially with an AWD system zapping away at the power but then I guess it's a 2.4 not a 2.3 as it's lazer blue.
[quote=AndysR;424854] Be nice to see what the wheel hp readings were for the cars, blue 2.4 AWD R looks lovely, shame you had to abort your run 258 hp at the wheels is very good especially with an AWD system zapping away at the power but then I guess it's a 2.4 not a 2.3 as it's lazer blue.[/quote] Yep, 2.4L, 19T.
[quote=AndysR;424854]Looks like a nice collection of cars attended. Good to see Ed's making good power, I'd have popped along to this, without the car obviously, for a lookie had I have known about it... Be nice to see what the wheel hp readings were for the cars, blue 2.4 AWD R looks lovely, shame you had to abort your run 258 hp at the wheels is very good especially with an AWD system zapping away at the power but then I guess it's a 2.4 not a 2.3 as it's lazer blue.[/quote] you can get s reg 2.3 lazer blues
weldone peeps some nice figuires there and my car is normally done in 4th too.but still impressive figuires frankie
[quote=smithy;424864]weldone peeps some nice figuires there and my car is normally done in 4th too.but still impressive figuires frankie[/quote] i know mate watch this space lol
[quote=t5frankie;424865]i know mate watch this space lol[/quote] Power running in 5th will slightly exaggerated your power outputs, but then at least you have an excuse when you get beat ;) lol
[quote=t5frankie;424865]i know mate watch this space lol[/quote] yes im looking forward to it mate and the 940 will be ready too ,and i think we should set another charity dyno day at hlm in the new year too ,it would be nice to see what the cars are doing after the mods have been done over the winter period too.
[quote=AndysR;424869]Power running in 5th will slightly exaggerated your power outputs, but then at least you have an excuse when you get beat ;) lol[/quote] that aint true cos both the s60's got better results in 4th and you will never beat me again andy lol
[quote=t5frankie;424876]that aint true cos both the s60's got better results in 4th and you will never beat me again andy lol[/quote] You think...? lol S60's have 6 speed boxes, so the ratios will differ ;)
still good figuires for a none remapped car
[quote=AndysR;424878]You think...? lol S60's have 6 speed boxes, so the ratios will differ ;)[/quote] lol do they i was just assuming so it would have been 6th and then 5th?, somebody there told me thats what they were doing and i know my first run was in 5th and 2nd and4th stedmans was 3rd then 5th
[quote=smithy;424882]still good figuires for a none remapped car[/quote] Definately..
looks like u all ad a good day some nice figs to need to get my car back on the rollers ?
[quote=smithy;424882]still good figuires for a none remapped car[/quote] he cant admit that saffys are naturally more powerful mate lol
[quote=t5frankie;424884]lol do they i was just assuming so it would have been 6th and then 5th?, somebody there told me thats what they were doing and i know my first run was in 5th and 2nd and4th stedmans was 3rd then 5th[/quote] Probably just testing which gear was best to do the run in... Well done anyway, it's good to have a bench mark to work from :)
[quote=t5frankie;424888]he cant admit that saffys are naturally more powerful mate lol[/quote] Well naturally it was more powerful out of the factory, unfortunately the same can't be said for it's performance now ;) lol
[quote=AndysR;424892]Well naturally it was more powerful out of the factory, unfortunately the same can't be said for it's performance now ;) lol[/quote] we will see in the new year mate you up for santa pod in january? when is your car coming out of retirement
[quote=t5frankie;424903]we will see in the new year mate you up for santa pod in january? when is your car coming out of retirement[/quote] Not sure yet, might be Feb/March.. Could pop along for a viewing though, be good to see what you achieve, if it's correctly mapped then I'd expect you to do a 14 flat even without "driving it to perfection" :)
[quote=AndysR;424906]Not sure yet, might be Feb/March.. Could pop along for a viewing though, be good to see what you achieve, if it's correctly mapped then I'd expect you to do a 14 flat even without "driving it to perfection" :)[/quote] mine will still be off the road then too i forgot lol
[quote=t5frankie;424909]mine will still be off the road then too i forgot lol[/quote] Fool! lol
i will be testing my car in jan though ready for the new season
[quote=smithy;424916]i will be testing my car in jan though ready for the new season[/quote] January will be great, you should get some brilliant act's in the cold winter weather and some good times up the 1/4 mile........ Between snow showers and wheel spin through lack of traction on the track due to the reduced temps.. lol
I've got to ask though guys as it's been bugging me for sometime... What is the facsination with the 1/4 mile and nothing else? It's not exactly the Volvo's ace card when it comes to performance testing..
[quote=t5frankie;424812]i've already said that the runs were done in top gear flat out, and his car never in a million years has 275bhp at the wheels thats more than deans[/quote] The point i'm trying to make here is that an auto should be measured at the wheels as i don't see how they got engine power on an auto? Can someone please explain to me how you measure the engine power of an auto on a dyno? Why didn't you have the figures for the power at the wheels, every dyno i'v been to, everyone had both? Did they say why?
[quote=AndysR;424928]I've got to ask though guys as it's been bugging me for sometime... What is the facsination with the 1/4 mile and nothing else? It's not exactly the Volvo's ace card when it comes to performance testing..[/quote] i know what you mean it's the buzz and the adrenaline for me i love nothing more than wringing the neck out of my car, and its quite a skillful thing getting a good time (in a manual one lol)
[quote=AndysR;424928]I've got to ask though guys as it's been bugging me for sometime... What is the facsination with the 1/4 mile and nothing else? It's not exactly the Volvo's ace card when it comes to performance testing..[/quote] But what is a volvo suited too when it comes to performance testing? Only thing i can think of 30-130mph type stuff.
[quote=LiamT4;424931]The point i'm trying to make here is that an auto should be measured at the wheels as i don't see how they got engine power on an auto? Can someone please explain to me how you measure the engine power of an auto on a dyno? Why didn't you have the figures for the power at the wheels, every dyno i'v been to, everyone had both? Did they say why?[/quote] yes 252whp mate ffs lol
[quote=t5frankie;424939]yes 252whp mate[/quote] Ok then, you wouldn't happen to know what eds was then?
[quote=AndysR;424928]I've got to ask though guys as it's been bugging me for sometime... What is the facsination with the 1/4 mile and nothing else? It's not exactly the Volvo's ace card when it comes to performance testing..[/quote] i will only be testing if its dry and dont forget im rwd too and will be running 1.8 bar lol
[quote=LiamT4;424943]Ok then, you wouldn't happen to know what eds was then?[/quote] no ask him mate
[quote=t5frankie;424935]i know what you mean it's the buzz and the adrenaline for me i love nothing more than wringing the neck out of my car, and its quite a skillful thing getting a good time (in a manual one lol)[/quote] I find that offensive, I'll have you know it takes alot of skill to select sport mode and switch off the traction control whilst eating a ham sandwich and drinking a can of coke.. and that's all before you've mocked your opponent with a hand guesture as you cross the line in front of him... [quote=LiamT4;424937]But what is a volvo suited too when it comes to performance testing? Only thing i can think of 30-130mph type stuff.[/quote] Yeah that's what the MLR do at Marham and looks like a good competitive way of testing a car and helps to remove driver error slightly too.. In terms of launching anyway.. [quote=t5frankie;424939]yes 252whp mate ffs lol[/quote] That's good... [quote=LiamT4;424943]Ok then, you wouldn't happen to know what eds was then?[/quote] PM him, he only comes on the site from time to time but I know he replies to PM's ;)
[quote=smithy;424953]i will only be testing if its dry and dont forget im rwd too and will be running 1.8 bar lol[/quote] Hang on a minute... Is that an excuse before you've even arrived at the event? Next we'll be hearing about clutch faults.. lol ;)
Ok let me get this right Frankie, your car made 298bhp on a standard map?? what boost were you running? i thought a standard ecu would of cut out at just over a bar(16psi ish) and there is no way you would get 298 at 16psi, also think Ed's figure is a bit optamistic being an auto im guessing his was done in 4th(auto) flat out??. Not dissing anyone just think they are a bit high ish :)
[quote=jamest5r;424964]Ok let me get this right Frankie, your car made 298bhp on a standard map?? what boost were you running? i thought a standard ecu would of cut out at just over a bar(16psi ish) and there is no way you would get 298 at 16psi[/quote] i'm sure TFFM (the flying fridge mover) got 294bhp on the standard map. There are ways to raise the boost above the 15psi fuel-cut ;)
Obviously its just me, but i much prefer it when everyone uses power at the wheels :D
[quote=jamest5r;424964]Ok let me get this right Frankie, your car made 298bhp on a standard map?? what boost were you running? i thought a standard ecu would of cut out at just over a bar(16psi ish) and there is no way you would get 298 at 16psi, also think Ed's figure is a bit optamistic being an auto im guessing his was done in 4th(auto) flat out??. Not dissing anyone just think they are a bit high ish :)[/quote] If the run on Ed's was anything like mine then it was probably done in 3rd gear from about 3,500 to prevent kickdown to 2nd gear right to the limiter. The flywheel figure on an auto is purely calculated and is by no means a true accurate reading.. But then you could argue that no dyno result is truely 100% accurate regardless of the rolling road manufacturer or transmission type, but manual calculated flywheel power is always going to be a more accurate reading than that of the auto due to the auto's fluid coupling preventing "direct drive"
[quote=AndysR;424928]I've got to ask though guys as it's been bugging me for sometime... What is the facsination with the 1/4 mile and nothing else? It's not exactly the Volvo's ace card when it comes to performance testing..[/quote] That's the whole point...they should'nt be fast on the 1/4 mile but the buzz of racing and getting there fat arse's to shift and beating the chav's is such a high and it's also the only form of motorsport i can afford at the moment :)
[quote=p fandango;424969]i'm sure TFFM (the flying fridge mover) got 294bhp on the standard map. There are ways to raise the boost above the 15psi fuel-cut ;)[/quote] Back in 1895 I bet that was a really impressive power reading. What did you do for fuel as I am sure they wouldn't have had V-Power or it's equivalent back then... pmsl
[quote=jamest5r;424964]Ok let me get this right Frankie, your car made 298bhp on a standard map?? what boost were you running? i thought a standard ecu would of cut out at just over a bar(16psi ish) and there is no way you would get 298 at 16psi, also think Ed's figure is a bit optamistic being an auto im guessing his was done in 4th(auto) flat out??. Not dissing anyone just think they are a bit high ish :)[/quote] oi oi jealous i have the proof and adam the bloke who i got the ecu off can vouch its standard and i had to drill out the ecu strap to get it out, i didnt get fuel cut, think about it james with my knackered 18t that peaked at 4000rpms it got 262bhp since then its had injectors decat and a 19t
[quote=LiamT4;424970]Obviously its just me, but i much prefer it when everyone uses power at the wheels :D[/quote] When I had mine done they gave me a print out for wheel horse power. They also worked out a "flywheel" figure too but said that it wouldn't be 100%, though it gives you an idea.
[quote=AndysR;424958]Hang on a minute... Is that an excuse before you've even arrived at the event? Next we'll be hearing about clutch faults.. lol ;)[/quote] my car was playing up last season but now thats sorted so will be doing testing getting ready for the new season ,then time to finish the body off and the car should look nice and well as go well.
[quote=jamest5r;424975]That's the whole point...they should'nt be fast on the 1/4 mile but the buzz of racing and getting there fat arse's to shift and beating the chav's is such a high and it's also the only form of motorsport i can afford at the moment :)[/quote] Not a criticism just a question as so many on here love it and I wondered what it was that sparked the whole interest off ;)
[quote=jamest5r;424975]That's the whole point...they should'nt be fast on the 1/4 mile but the buzz of racing and getting there fat arse's to shift and beating the chav's is such a high and it's also the only form of motorsport i can afford at the moment :)[/quote] well you must of saved a fortune this year mate lol
[quote=smithy;424983]my car was playing up last season but now thats sorted so will be doing testing getting ready for the new season ,then time to finish the body off and the car should look nice and well as go well.[/quote] Your joking surely? From what I remember the car was mint when I last saw it at Shakespeare... :)
[quote=t5frankie;424985]well you must of saved a fortune this year mate lol[/quote] Ouch! lol
[quote=AndysR;424973]If the run on Ed's was anything like mine then it was probably done in 3rd gear from about 3,500 to prevent kickdown to 2nd gear right to the limiter. The flywheel figure on an auto is purely calculated and is by no means a true accurate reading.. But then you could argue that no dyno result is truely 100% accurate regardless of the rolling road manufacturer or transmission type, but manual calculated flywheel power is always going to be a more accurate reading than that of the auto due to the auto's fluid coupling preventing "direct drive"[/quote] Yeah i get that mate but i thought dyno's read the whp therefore why not just quote the whp fig and not try and convert it into bhp which we all know is subjective(like dyno's), if evryone just took the whp and did'nt add on 15%/20%..whatever % it would make more sense imho :)
[quote=AndysR;424984]Not a criticism just a question as so many on here love it and I wondered what it was that sparked the whole interest off ;)[/quote] its the getting together and racing your mates legally all the talking up beforehand and slanging matches that we have funny as fook
[quote=LiamT4;424970]Obviously its just me, but i much prefer it when everyone uses power at the wheels :D[/quote] That's all us "mear" auto's can go by ;)
[quote=jamest5r;424988]Yeah i get that mate but i thought dyno's read the whp therefore why not just quote the whp fig and not try and convert it into bhp which we all know is subjective(like dyno's), if evryone just took the whp and did'nt add on 15%/20%..whatever % it would make more sense imho :)[/quote] its all about keeping the customer happy, the higher the number you can give him the more likely it is he'll come back. Thats why some dyno operators will do exactly what the customer wants, even tho they know it will give false figures
[quote=p fandango;424969]i'm sure TFFM (the flying fridge mover) got 294bhp on the standard map. There are ways to raise the boost above the 15psi fuel-cut ;)[/quote]no mate think it was maped because it was running 22psi to 25 with no fuel cut
[quote=smithness;424995]no mate think it was maped because it was running 22psi to 25 with no fuel cut[/quote] i think you've got the wrong car, i helped him do alot of the work & defo no mapped or running boost anything like that (think even HLM turned it upto 15psi). Had got a 19t, decat & RIP kit
[quote=p fandango;424993]its all about keeping the customer happy, the higher the number you can give him the more likely it is he'll come back. Thats why some dyno operators will do exactly what the customer wants, even tho they know it will give false figures[/quote] what a load of crap
[quote=t5frankie;424978]oi oi jealous i have the proof and adam the bloke who i got the ecu off can vouch its standard and i had to drill out the ecu strap to get it out, i didnt get fuel cut, think about it james with my knackered 18t that peaked at 4000rpms it got 262bhp since then its had injectors decat and a 19t[/quote] What was your n/m been quiet on that one, less than 455?? [quote=AndysR;424984]Not a criticism just a question as so many on here love it and I wondered what it was that sparked the whole interest off ;)[/quote] Beating Frankie :) [quote=t5frankie;424985]well you must of saved a fortune this year mate lol[/quote] You seen my spec list lol, most expensive season yet for a garden ornament, glad to see you have one as well but green looks better in front of the house :) [quote=AndysR;424987]Ouch! lol[/quote] Expect nothing less from the git.
[quote=AndysR;424986]Your joking surely? From what I remember the car was mint when I last saw it at Shakespeare... :)[/quote] i have some new ideas for the car mate and it will look wild mate
[quote=smithy;425000]i have some new ideas for the car mate and it will look wild mate[/quote] to put it into perpective a seat leon cuopra got 208bhp and they are 210 standard and a honda accord type r got 212bhp and they are 210bhp standard
[QUOTE=jamest5r;424999]What was your n/m been quiet on that one, less than 455?? Beating Frankie :) You seen my spec list lol, most expensive season yet for a garden ornament, glad to see you have one as well but green looks better in front of the house :) i'd prefer a manual t5-r mate to be honest as long as it had a 16t and a m59
[quote=t5frankie;424997]what a load of crap[/quote] so as asked, why don't they quote whp which is the direct number measured?
[quote=t5frankie;424989]its the getting together and racing your mates legally all the talking up beforehand and slanging matches that we have funny as fook[/quote] i have to agree mate
[QUOTE=jamest5r;424999]What was your n/m been quiet on that one, less than 455?? yeah mate wasn't running at 22psi was i like last time so it got 405nms
[quote=p fandango;424996]i think you've got the wrong car, i helped him do alot of the work & defo no mapped or running boost anything like that (think even HLM turned it upto 15psi). Had got a 19t, decat & RIP kit[/quote]doh must a got other car then with his number plates on?????????????/or yeah and full stainless zorst bleed valve,,,,,
[quote=t5frankie;425005][QUOTE=jamest5r;424999]What was your n/m been quiet on that one, less than 455?? yeah mate wasn't running at 22psi was i like last time so it got 405nms[/quote] So with less torque it's slower pmsl :) Got to jump in the bath will be back in 1/2 hour to give you more crap :)
[quote=jamest5r;424988]Yeah i get that mate but i thought dyno's read the whp therefore why not just quote the whp fig and not try and convert it into bhp which we all know is subjective(like dyno's), if evryone just took the whp and did'nt add on 15%/20%..whatever % it would make more sense imho :)[/quote] [quote=p fandango;425003]so as asked, why don't they quote whp which is the direct number measured?[/quote] This is the point i'v been making. A dyno measures the power at the wheels, not the engine, that has to be calculated from the wheel power. Thats why i like to see whp.
[quote=smithness;425006]doh must a got other car then with his number plates on?????????????/or yeah and full stainless zorst bleed valve,,,,,[/quote] lmao, nope MBC & standard angled exhaust off C70. Actually didn't you buy it off him the blue estate, you took the 16/19t hybrid off it
[quote=jamest5r;425008][quote=t5frankie;425005] So with less torque it's slower pmsl :) Got to jump in the bath will be back in 1/2 hour to give you more crap :)[/quote] nut last year it was mapped and now it aint but will be soon.
[quote=t5frankie;424989]its the getting together and racing your mates legally all the talking up beforehand and slanging matches that we have funny as fook[/quote] I think it's fair to say you do get into it on the approach to any event.... Quite well in advance too... lol [quote=jamest5r;424999]What was your n/m been quiet on that one, less than 455?? Beating Frankie :) You seen my spec list lol, most expensive season yet for a garden ornament, glad to see you have one as well but green looks better in front of the house :) Expect nothing less from the git.[/quote] That's as good a reason as any I guess :)
[quote=AndysR;425016]I think it's fair to say you do get into it on the approach to any event.... Quite well in advance too... lol That's as good a reason as any I guess :)[/quote] well i have nothing else in my life lol :worried:
How was your AFR? Did it seem to fueling ok with the 19t and blues on the the standard map?
[quote=p fandango;425011]lmao, nope MBC & standard angled exhaust off C70. Actually didn't you buy it off him the blue estate, you took the 16/19t hybrid off it[/quote]Thats right mbc but no decat on it and I did take the turbo off it.....
[quote=t5frankie;425024]well i have nothing else in my life lol :worried:[/quote] http://youtu.be/-EQ6eHeBrhM
[quote=AndysR;425031]http://youtu.be/-EQ6eHeBrhM[/quote] cheers mate gonna go and hang myself no lol :scared:
[quote=t5frankie;425041]cheers mate gonna go and hang myself no lol :scared:[/quote] Well if you do can I have your V70R, I'd like to know what all the fuss is about :)
[quote=AndysR;424958]Hang on a minute... Is that an excuse before you've even arrived at the event? Next we'll be hearing about clutch faults.. lol ;)[/quote] Clutch failures happen to the best of us (and to me lol).
[quote=AndysR;425050]Well if you do can I have your V70R, I'd like to know what all the fuss is about :)[/quote] no it's coming with me lol
[quote=AndysR;425050]Well if you do can I have your V70R, I'd like to know what all the fuss is about :)[/quote] Frankie will be buried in that car he will never let it go lol
it is not possible to do a drag back calculation for an automatic as the transmission is never truly disconnected. The torque converter is bolted to the flywheel.
[quote=t5frankie;425069]no it's coming with me lol[/quote] lol, why doesn't that surprise me... lol
[quote=jamest5r;425079]Frankie will be buried in that car he will never let it go lol[/quote] im the same mate lol
[quote=smithy;425097]im the same mate lol[/quote] Is this a new type of cryostasis?.... Well with the build quality of a Volvo as good as it is, it's going to take decades for you to discolour when buried in one let alone start to decompose... lol
[quote=jamest5r;425079]Frankie will be buried in that car he will never let it go lol[/quote] no mate i aint going in with the flesh eating worms, i'm i mean we're going into the fire lol
[quote=AndysR;424869]Power running in 5th will slightly exaggerated your power outputs, but then at least you have an excuse when you get beat ;) lol[/quote] Hi Andy the 5th gear run was to check calibration and wheel position the runs where then done in 4th! Steadman yours was done the same as every one else's 5th then 3rd!
[quote=AndysR;425102]Is this a new type of cryostasis?.... Well with the build quality of a Volvo as good as it is, it's going to take decades for you to discolour when buried in one let alone start to decompose... lol[/quote] i will be dust before my volvo disappears lol
[quote=smithy;425110]i will be dust before my volvo disappears lol[/quote] you are already dusty mate cos you iz old.... lol
[quote=GregE102;425109]Hi Andy the 5th gear run was to check calibration and wheel position the runs where then done in 4th! Steadman yours was done the same as every one else's 5th then 3rd![/quote] ?? I see, 4th is the better gear.
[quote=t5frankie;425116]you are already dusty mate cos you iz old.... lol[/quote] yes but still better looking than you and a faster car too lol
[quote=p fandango;425003]so as asked, why don't they quote whp which is the direct number measured?[/quote] They did give wheel power as well Pedro! even car manufactures quote fly figures! My Engine power was 319.8 bhp & wheel power was 235.9 bhp Torque was 441.8Nm Greg
[quote=t5frankie;425116]you are already dusty mate cos you iz old.... lol[/quote] In fairness... he's got a point...! lol
[quote=smithy;425120]yes but still better looking than you and a faster car too lol[/quote] better looking than "handsome Frank" i doubt that very very much lol
[quote=GregE102;425121]They did give wheel power as well Pedro! even car manufactures quote fly figures! My Engine power was 319.8 bhp & wheel power was 235.9 bhp Torque was 441.8Nm Greg[/quote] That's brilliant Greg! I wonder if mine is over the 300 hp barrier as mine achieved 231 hp at the wheels :)
[quote=AndysR;425130]That's brilliant Greg! I wonder if mine is over the 300 hp barrier as mine achieved 231 hp at the wheels :)[/quote] don't think so mate lol
[quote=t5frankie;425138]don't think so mate lol[/quote] Why not, by the time the powers hit the wheels the auto's already zapped more power from the engine than a manual would do and Greg's did ;)
[quote=t5frankie;425125]better looking than "handsome Frank" i doubt that very very much lol[/quote] well somebody has to feel sorry for you mate lol
[quote=smithy;425146]well somebody has to feel sorry for you mate lol[/quote] These guys should do a good job of sympathising... http://www.samaritans.org/
[quote=AndysR;425130]That's brilliant Greg! I wonder if mine is over the 300 hp barrier as mine achieved 231 hp at the wheels :)[/quote] I recon so you have extensive mods as well! it all just comes down to the mapping really!
[quote=GregE102;425172]I recon so you have extensive mods as well! it all just comes down to the mapping really![/quote] Indeed, no point in doing the mod's if you can't match them with the software. Who does your mapping? Is it still Marco?
[quote=AndysR;425180]Indeed, no point in doing the mod's if you can't match them with the software. Who does your mapping? Is it still Marco?[/quote] lol i've read his message to marco on t5d5
[quote=t5frankie;425183]lol i've read his message to marco on t5d5[/quote] I don't go on T5D5... Have I missed something?
[quote=GregE102;425184][/quote]
That's nice and smooth!
[quote=AndysR;425180]Indeed, no point in doing the mod's if you can't match them with the software. Who does your mapping? Is it still Marco?[/quote] LOL No mate Marko has never mapped my car! And never will the mapping is done by a combo of Tim & Ben at brunters 1.8 mile runway so just data logging and then altering the map to suit. It took them 4 runs of logging then with adjustments between each time, then a 5th run and reduction of boost and final tweak job done. took them just over an hour Marco would have taken a very long time and charged you a small fortune. As you can see live mapping carries over to a dyno very nicly
[quote=GregE102;425192]LOL No mate Marko has never mapped my car! And never will the mapping is done by a combo of Tim & Ben at brunters 1.8 mile runway so just data logging and then altering the map to suit. It took them 4 runs of logging then with adjustments between each time, then a 5th run and reduction of boost and final tweak job done. took them just over an hour Marco would have taken a very long time and charged you a small fortune. As you can see live mapping carries over to a dyno very nicly[/quote] Indeed, a lot to be said for live mapping. Sorry didn't realise I thought he had. Tim (Williams?) Ben (V70Ben off the VOC?) they've done a good job of it, do you have a turbo tuner or is your ecu flash mapped as an MTE would be?
[quote=AndysR;425196]Indeed, a lot to be said for live mapping. Sorry didn't realise I thought he had. Tim (Williams?) Ben (V70Ben off the VOC?) they've done a good job of it, do you have a turbo tuner or is your ecu flash mapped as an MTE would be?[/quote] No turbo tunner! Just Tim & Ben working together they are the ones responsible for the whole car! Ben agreed to write a one off map for me to see how it went! I am not sure what equipment he has they just did it from scratch and uploaded the map on to the ecu not sure if that is flashing or not? But what a job they did!
[quote=GregE102;425217]No turbo tunner! Just Tim & Ben working together they are the ones responsible for the whole car! Ben agreed to write a one off map for me to see how it went! I am not sure what equipment he has they just did it from scratch and uploaded the map on to the ecu not sure if that is flashing or not? But what a job they did![/quote] Must have been flashed in the same way the MTE's are done as I doubt they'd have "chipped" it.. Very good effort for a trial run as it were :) At Coombe this year you'll have to take me for a run, didn't get a chance last year as you were always busy :(
[quote=AndysR;425220]Must have been flashed in the same way the MTE's are done as I doubt they'd have "chipped" it.. Very good effort for a trial run as it were :) At Coombe this year you'll have to take me for a run, didn't get a chance last year as you were always busy :([/quote] Yes come along! just come over and say hi next time! wish we had meet up!! my head was spinning last year and i had butter flies being my first proper track day lets hope the hole day is dry as well! as the fedral track tyres are really hard to get heat in to in the wet, but when its hot and they get sticky it amazing you can brake a few car lengths later and the combo of the side walls and turn in with the gripper diff is something else!
[quote=GregE102;425121]They did give wheel power as well Pedro! even car manufactures quote fly figures! My Engine power was 319.8 bhp & wheel power was 235.9 bhp Torque was 441.8Nm Greg[/quote] Nice figure's mate, and please dont take this the wrong way but i just dont get the way dyno's come to the bhp figure, similar set-up to you i got 269whp but calculated to 287bhp(on Hlm rr)going on the difference in your's to mine i would of got 350ish(too many beers to work out exact fig lol). Edit.. http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8257&d=1267369274
Wow, I think I have come in late... where on earth do you start to comment on a thread like this eh? ;)
[quote=jamest5r;425259]Nice figure's mate, and please dont take this the wrong way but i just dont get the way dyno's come to the bhp figure, similar set-up to you i got 269whp but calculated to 287bhp(on Hlm rr)going on the difference in your's to mine i would of got 350ish(too many beers to work out exact fig lol). Edit.. http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8257&d=1267369274[/quote] I am new to RR's! Is the drag figure not taken from engine power to give wheel bhp? I asked the operator about drag and he told me every car is different and anything in the drive train will make a difference! size of calipers, state of bearings, diff everything! I was not so bothered about the figure but more about what the graph looks like its a very responsive car and the pull feels like the graph shows just a massive serge all the way through! I think its more down to if your happy with how your car feels at the end of the day! After all any of us could come up against a racing driver with a 100 bhp and they would beat us every time at the end of the day Different RR's give different figures for a start, But Mo had been to a different place a few weeks before in his T4 and made 370 bhp and yesterday made almost the same all but +2 bhp but his engine has been rebuilt and is new so will loosen up over time!
Dynos measure the power directly at the wheels, then engine power is calculated from the wheels "winding" down. Fwds tend to have the least losses with 4wd having the most, autos have higher losses than manuals. From what i'v seen the losses usually range from 10-25% with it usually being around 15%. But here we have two cars that are outside of that, gregs is about 27% and james is about 7%. Theres so many variables that trying to compare different cars on different dynos on different days, is very difficult and often ends up with arguments, so no point in it really. Best not to get too hung up on numbers as things like having a nice smooth power delivery are probably more important as thats what you'll feel on the road. Twin rollers will also give slightly higher losses to single rollers... or is it the other way round???? lol
[QUOTE=LiamT4;425305]Dynos measure the power directly at the wheels, then engine power is calculated from the wheels "winding" down. Fwds tend to have the least losses with 4wd having the most, autos have higher losses than manuals. From what i'v seen the losses usually range from 10-25% with it usually being around 15%. But here we have two cars that are outside of that, gregs is about 27% and james is about 7%. Theres so many variables that trying to compare different cars on different dynos on different days, is very difficult and often ends up with arguments, so no point in it really. Best not to get too hung up on numbers as things like having a nice smooth power delivery are probably more important as thats what you'll feel on the road. Spot on Liam It's how it drives on the road that counts, and the feel matches the graph just one big continuation of acceleration and surge all the way. Thats the first time i have ever been on a RR, its nice to know what power it is, but quoting figures is all i hear in the pub by all the young lads lol pub talk and makes no difference! it all comes down to the driver at the end of the day And now I know my bhp i do not need to go again until I change something like my Zorst, I may de-cat it and get a miltek fitted so it would be good to see how much difference it would make! But figures aside it was a good day out for meeting up with everyone, and a good laugh
Thats when a dyno will be able to help, i.e seeing the differences any future mods will make. Anyway the best bit about dyno days is seeing all the cars and having a laugh.
[quote=LiamT4;425321]Thats when a dyno will be able to help, i.e seeing the differences any future mods will make. Anyway the best bit about dyno days is seeing all the cars and having a laugh.[/quote] Could not agree more with you Liam! Cheers Greg
[quote=GregE102;425325]Could not agree more with you Liam! Cheers Greg[/quote] You wouldn't have anymore pics of the cars that were there would you?
Sorry Liam i did not take any pics, some of the guys over on T5D5 took vids and pic's but weather they post them who knows? pop over and have a look some time I am sure after the weekend there will be some more posted up! Thanks Greg
[quote=GregE102;425333]Sorry Liam i did not take any pics, some of the guys over on T5D5 took vids and pic's but weather they post them who knows? pop over and have a look some time I am sure after the weekend there will be some more posted up! Thanks Greg[/quote] Cheers.
I will be posting a few pictures of videos on t5' after I speak to the owners for permission :) Frankie, you dyno proves either you're lying about a map or that standard V70Rs are pretty good ;)
[quote=Stedman;425367]I will be posting a few pictures of videos on t5' after I speak to the owners for permission :) Frankie, you dyno proves either you're lying about a map or that standard V70Rs are pretty good ;)[/quote] why would i lie about a map? i had a hlm 310 map in i bloody exchanged it last week with adam280 off this site he paid me cash on top, why would he of done that if he already had a mapped ecu? of which incidently i had to drill out the original ecu strap to get it out of his car, you are only jealous cos mine was better than yours lol
I can confirm I had frankies ecu last week and he had my standard one, we had to drill the ecu cover strap to get to it.
All, The pictures at the begining of the thread have been removed by request from multiple members. This is as some members were unhappy to have pictures of their cars published with numberplates. If you would like to see any pictures please contact Frankie or others in attendance. Frankie, if you like you can photoshop the reg plates and re-post. All the best The Flying Moose :)
[quote=The Flying Moose;425464]All, The pictures at the begining of the thread have been removed by request from multiple members. This is as some members were unhappy to have pictures of their cars published with numberplates. If you would like to see any pictures please contact Frankie or others in attendance. Frankie, if you like you can photoshop the reg plates and re-post. All the best The Flying Moose :)[/quote] nah mate can't be bothered i really don't know why people freak out about such things
Evening all, I made 271bhp, 375nm and 221whp. The runs in my car were done in 3rd as the print out shows my max speed as 183km/h which is roughly where the car would change up to 4th. Andy is spot on, revs were built up to 3500rpm to avoid kick down. The dyno was fairly accurate as one of the other runners made almost identical numbers to powerstation where he ran a couple of weeks before. The Leon made 208bhp which... for a 1.9 TDi FR with just a remap is shocking. Its 'supposed' to be 150bhp from factory but has always felt quicker than the figures suggested. Frank, your car might have a std map on it, but your car is no where near factory spec :) Ed
[quote=Ed.;425538]Evening all, I made 271bhp, 375nm and 221whp. The runs in my car were done in 3rd as the print out shows my max speed as 183km/h which is roughly where the car would change up to 4th. Andy is spot on, revs were built up to 3500rpm to avoid kick down. The dyno was fairly accurate as one of the other runners made almost identical numbers to powerstation where he ran a couple of weeks before. The Leon made 208bhp which... for a 1.9 TDi FR with just a remap is shocking. Its 'supposed' to be 150bhp from factory but has always felt quicker than the figures suggested. Frank, your car might have a std map on it, but your car is no where near factory spec :) Ed[/quote] exactly ed the amount of mods i have done seem to mean nothing, to most people its either you are mapped or not mapped and nothing else matters r.e post 148 lol
[quote=Ed.;425538]Evening all, I made 271bhp, 375nm and 221whp. The runs in my car were done in 3rd as the print out shows my max speed as 183km/h which is roughly where the car would change up to 4th. Andy is spot on, revs were built up to 3500rpm to avoid kick down. The dyno was fairly accurate as one of the other runners made almost identical numbers to powerstation where he ran a couple of weeks before. Ed[/quote] Thats a good power figure you've got Ed :B_thumb:, did you see any increase in the temps on the auto box when running??
All unrelated posts have been removed, they were not required really in an otherwise interesting thread. Lets keep it on topic chaps :)
[quote=Jim S70R;425565]Thats a good power figure you've got Ed :B_thumb:, did you see any increase in the temps on the auto box when running??[/quote] I was hoping for more power than that, but in hindsight i think its about right. I didn't check the autobox temps when on the rollers unfortunately. I wouldn't have thought it would have got very high though. The only time i have really seen significant temperature rises is when on track. Normal driving with the odd spurt of wot won't get the temps any higher than 75c, even in the summer. I think the gearbox warning arrow will only light up once you hit 130c. Ed
[quote=Ed.;425579]I was hoping for more power than that, but in hindsight i think its about right. I didn't check the autobox temps when on the rollers unfortunately. I wouldn't have thought it would have got very high though. The only time i have really seen significant temperature rises is when on track. Normal driving with the odd spurt of wot won't get the temps any higher than 75c, even in the summer. I think the gearbox warning arrow will only light up once you hit 130c. Ed[/quote] what mods you running ed?
[quote=t5frankie;425580]what mods you running ed?[/quote] stage 1 mte, rip kit, ported throttle body, 16t, me7 manifold, angled dp, straight pipe, catback, whites. Ed
[quote=Ed.;425587]stage 1 mte, rip kit, ported throttle body, 16t, me7 manifold, angled dp, straight pipe, catback, whites. Ed[/quote] sounds spot on to me thats +50bhp
[quote=Ed.;425579]I was hoping for more power than that, but in hindsight i think its about right. I didn't check the autobox temps when on the rollers unfortunately. I wouldn't have thought it would have got very high though. The only time i have really seen significant temperature rises is when on track. Normal driving with the odd spurt of wot won't get the temps any higher than 75c, even in the summer. I think the gearbox warning arrow will only light up once you hit 130c. Ed[/quote] How did the chart look? was it smooth did you get a power graph print out?
Got a print out, not had chance to scan. The graph is quite smooth though, similar power curve to my old sw autos map. Torque curve is a bit flatter compared to the last one, i think this is thanks to the breathing mods on the car. It now holds over 340nm from 3200rpm to 5400rpm. Ed
[quote=Ed.;425594]Got a print out, not had chance to scan. The graph is quite smooth though, similar power curve to my old sw autos map. Torque curve is a bit flatter compared to the last one, i think this is thanks to the breathing mods on the car. It now holds over 340nm from 3200rpm to 5400rpm. Ed[/quote] Sounds good Ed, making the torque where it matters then ;)
[quote=t5frankie;425370]why would i lie about a map? i had a hlm 310 map in i bloody exchanged it last week with adam280 off this site he paid me cash on top, why would he of done that if he already had a mapped ecu? of which incidently i had to drill out the original ecu strap to get it out of his car, you are only jealous cos mine was better than yours lol[/quote] Alright, chill Winstan. I'm jealous of the colour, get it right ;)
[quote=Ed.;425538]Evening all, I made 271bhp, 375nm and 221whp. The runs in my car were done in 3rd as the print out shows my max speed as 183km/h which is roughly where the car would change up to 4th. Andy is spot on, revs were built up to 3500rpm to avoid kick down. The dyno was fairly accurate as one of the other runners made almost identical numbers to powerstation where he ran a couple of weeks before. The Leon made 208bhp which... for a 1.9 TDi FR with just a remap is shocking. Its 'supposed' to be 150bhp from factory but has always felt quicker than the figures suggested. Frank, your car might have a std map on it, but your car is no where near factory spec :) Ed[/quote] Sounds like good power to me and as you say later the fact the torque curve is flat is a very good thing. It's very difficult to get power figures from auto's and we all know your car performs well on the road going by the figures you acheive on the strip ;)
[quote=t5frankie;425370]why would i lie about a map? i had a hlm 310 map in i bloody exchanged it last week with adam280 off this site he paid me cash on top, why would he of done that if he already had a mapped ecu? of which incidently i had to drill out the original ecu strap to get it out of his car, you are only jealous cos mine was better than yours lol[/quote] carm down calm down lad lol in a liverpool accent
1st run
2nd run
[quote=BlackBeast;425725]1st run
2nd run
No idea why the graphs have changed size as they are fine on t5d5?[/quote]
Bloody hell that's a good power figure!!!
[QUOTE=Ed.;425538]Evening all, I made 271bhp, 375nm and 221whp. The runs in my car were done in 3rd as the print out shows my max speed as 183km/h which is roughly where the car would change up to 4th. Andy is spot on, revs were built up to 3500rpm to avoid kick down. The dyno was fairly accurate as one of the other runners made almost identical numbers to powerstation where he ran a couple of weeks before. The Leon made 208bhp which... for a 1.9 TDi FR with just a remap is shocking. Its 'supposed' to be 150bhp from factory but has always felt quicker than the figures suggested. Frank, your car might have a std map on it, but your car is no where near factory spec :) Ed[/QUOTE] At the risk of repeating myself - it is not possible to get a crank power figure for an automatic transmission. As Liam pointed out - the flywheel figure is calculated on the drag back figure once the clutch is disengaged. Given that this is not possible on an automatic as the torque converter with all that spinning ATF in it is BOLTED to the flywheel - the transmission is never truly disengaged - even if the selector is put into N - the stator is still spinning. The given figure is there for the flywheel, torque converter, input shaft/stator + ATF figure. Bit of a mouthful when you try to explain it down the pub! WHP only for autos - the rest is pure guess work.
[quote=Jim S70R;425727]Bloody hell that's a good power figure!!![/quote] Drag Power 143.1 ...........somebody is cheating !
[quote=hamish;425747]Drag Power 143.1 ...........somebody is cheating ![/quote] Well on your dyno then that would of been about 591 Bhp:) Maybe then if your so wise and clever, you can explain what it should be? and if there is a set figure? and why Steve's was so high? when mine was only 84Bhp? We where told it all comes down to brakes, diffs, bearings, drive shafts! anything in the drive train can have a profound affect! And what makes you think some one was cheating?
[quote=GregE102;425749]Well on your dyno then that would of been about 591 Bhp:) Maybe then if your so wise and clever, you can explain what it should be? and if there is a set figure? and why Steve's was so high? when mine was only 84Bhp? We where told it all comes down to brakes, diffs, bearings, drive shafts! anything in the drive train can have a profound affect! And what makes you think some one was cheating?[/quote] Greg, 143.1hp / 105.3kW of Drag Power would generate a huge amount of heat. 84hp would also generate an awful lot of heat. As neither of your transmission systems have caught on fire I think is safe to assume that neither car has anything like that amount of drag loss from the transmission. Why are the figures for the 2 cars so different? Surely the transmission is nearly identical and they are both in good order I would expect the Drag losses to be nearly identical too. Regards, Hamish.
[quote=hamish;425756]Greg, 143.1hp / 105.3kW of Drag Power would generate a huge amount of heat. 84hp would also generate an awful lot of heat. As neither of your transmission systems have caught on fire I think is safe to assume that neither car has anything like that amount of drag loss from the transmission. Why are the figures for the 2 cars so different? Surely the transmission is nearly identical and they are both in good order I would expect the Drag losses to be nearly identical too. Regards, Hamish.[/quote] I am not sure? But Mo's T4 made 2Bhp less than it did @ Power station 2 weeks before and his drag figures where almost identical? Steve's has a Queef diff, Big red brakes, I have a gripper & 928GTS brakes But i can assure you the dyno guy was not cheating! why would he? What is the correct drag then for an 850/70 both our engines are nearly new with complete bearings, rods, pistons, the lot head flowed, lightweight flys, Diff's Gbox's shot & Pend and big brake kits, all bearings are in good condition as are drive shaft's What should the correct figure be then? Thanks Greg
Theres something wrong if your getting losses that high and you should look into things really, doesn't matter if its the dyno or your drivetrain, those losses are very high. Put if this way if bmw/audi/whoever had a an engine producing 450bhp that when fitted to the car only 320bhp was being transmitted to the road, they would be looking into why the drivetrain is being so inefficient. Remember this also, its whp that moves you down the road. I'm not trying to argue here, i'v said before that i'v been to a few dyno meets over the years (volvo, vw/audi/seat, 200sx, etc) and i have never personnally seen losses that high. Unfortunatly, i know what will be coming next.
[quote=GregE102;425759]I am not sure? But Mo's T4 made 2Bhp less than it did @ Power station 2 weeks before and his drag figures where almost identical? Steve's has a Queef diff, Big red brakes, I have a gripper & 928GTS brakes But i can assure you the dyno guy was not cheating! why would he? What is the correct drag then for an 850/70 both our engines are nearly new with complete bearings, rods, pistons, the lot head flowed, lightweight flys, Diff's Gbox's shot & Pend and big brake kits, all bearings are in good condition as are drive shaft's What should the correct figure be then? Thanks Greg[/quote] Greg, Unfortunately this dyno and its operator does have a reputation for cheating. Back in June this year he was caught fudging Air Intake Temps to give a hugely inflated Corrected Power on a Focus ST225. I can assure you with Drag losses of 84 hp and 101hp and 143hp the guy is cheating. Your cars are both in good order and of very similar spec they shouldn't have excessive drag losses and they should have very similar drag losses. Regards, Hamish.
[quote=hamish;425774]Greg, Unfortunately this dyno and its operator does have a reputation for cheating. Back in June this year he was caught fudging Air Intake Temps to give a hugely inflated Corrected Power on a Focus ST225. I can assure you with Drag losses of 84 hp and 101hp and 143hp the guy is cheating. Your cars are both in good order and of very similar spec they shouldn't have excessive drag losses and they should have very similar drag losses. Regards, Hamish.[/quote] Oh Right! So can you tell me what drag figures should be for our cars then? ballpark figures? Thanks Greg
Basically going on a dyno is like asking someone how good your band is! Pure opinion :) Aside from perhaps a Maha Dyno which I've heard good things about. When I had mine done ages ago It was 228whp but the fella said it was 250 crank.
[quote=t5_monkey;425798]Basically going on a dyno is like asking someone how good your band is! Pure opinion :) Aside from perhaps a Maha Dyno which I've heard good things about. When I had mine done ages ago It was 228whp but the fella said it was 250 crank.[/quote] this is a maha dyno mate
[quote=GregE102;425795]Oh Right! So can you tell me what drag figures should be for our cars then? ballpark figures? Thanks Greg[/quote] Hi, I would have thought 20hp +/-5hp is more realistic for these cars. Some Volvos might be a tiny bit more but not these crazy figures you were given at the weekend. If those Drag losses are true it would explain why your fuel consumption is so poor :) Regards, Hamish.
[quote=hamish;425802]Hi, I would have thought 20hp +/-5hp is more realistic for these cars. Some Volvos might be a tiny bit more but not these crazy figures you were given at the weekend. If those Drag losses are true it would explain why your fuel consumption is so poor :) Regards, Hamish.[/quote] So drag loss should be 20Bhp ish? thanks My fuel consumption is down to fuel coming through the top of the sender unit where the wiring was bodged and then a filler used many years ago! So when the pump is running it quite happily pumps it out and then it drain's away to the road, people have been telling me for ages now its my driving or my right foot I used 22 gallons the other day doing 2 runs and 430 miles Could you post up a graph of an 850 with around 300 Bhp so i can have a look at the graph please? if you have one? Thanks Greg
Not quite 300bhp but it gives you an idea mate, on a 16t as well. http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8257&d=1267369274 269whp = 288bhp = 456n/m
[quote=jamest5r;425822]Not quite 300bhp but it gives you an idea mate, on a 16t as well. http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8257&d=1267369274[/quote] think i'll be having that map for my 850 lol
[quote=jamest5r;425822]Not quite 300bhp but it gives you an idea mate, on a 16t as well. http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8257&d=1267369274[/quote] Thanks James Not sure i quite understand that graph right? but can't see the run down on it? Cheers Greg
[quote=t5frankie;425825]think i'll be having that map for my 850 lol[/quote] Cool i get £20 referal fee :)
[quote=jamest5r;425827]Cool i get £20 referal fee :)[/quote] split 50/50?
[quote=hamish;425774]Greg, Unfortunately this dyno and its operator does have a reputation for cheating. Back in June this year he was caught fudging Air Intake Temps to give a hugely inflated Corrected Power on a Focus ST225. I can assure you with Drag losses of 84 hp and 101hp and 143hp the guy is cheating. Your cars are both in good order and of very similar spec they shouldn't have excessive drag losses and they should have very similar drag losses. Regards, Hamish.[/quote] My T4 made 370.8 bhp at Powerstation 2 weeks ago, and 372 bhp at Marlin on Saturday. Drag loss for both runs were around 84bhp (don't have the exact figures to hand). Should I suspect both dyno operators of 'cheating'?
[quote=afzalmj;425836]My T4 made 370.8 bhp at Powerstation and 372 bhp at Marlin, 2 weeks apart. Drag loss for both runs were 84bhp.[/quote] that's a pokey t4 you have there mate, bet it's a handfull?
[quote=t5_monkey;425798]Basically going on a dyno is like asking someone how good your band is! Pure opinion :) Aside from perhaps a Maha Dyno which I've heard good things about. When I had mine done ages ago It was 228whp but the fella said it was 250 crank.[/quote] It is possible to adjust things on a dyno, theres hardware and software involved. [quote=afzalmj;425836]My T4 made 370.8 bhp at Powerstation 2 weeks ago, and 372 bhp at Marlin on Saturday. Drag loss for both runs were around 84bhp (don't have the exact figures to hand). Should I suspect both dyno operators of 'cheating'?[/quote] Your losses are almost 10% less than the blokes who's running 459bhp though, the losses seem to have a wide range of variation. Heres a question, what were the power at the wheels and the flywheel for any of the s60rs?
[quote=afzalmj;425836]My T4 made 370.8 bhp at Powerstation 2 weeks ago, and 372 bhp at Marlin on Saturday. Drag loss for both runs were around 84bhp (don't have the exact figures to hand). Should I suspect both dyno operators of 'cheating'?[/quote] Should mention that my tyre's are 235/40/17 quite wide for an 850, but I have been reading further in to Drag, The MAHA drag figure is mainly based on tyre drag distortion between the two rollers and that the drag curve is a mathematically exponential calculus calculation! so can't be wrong! "Quoted by the wise old Owl" who wiser than most!!!!!
hi greg wot mods is your car running if u don't mind me asking.
think theres a few pics of the car over on t5d5 smithness m8y , proper car aswell
[quote=GregE102;425963]Should mention that my tyre's are 235/40/17 quite wide for an 850, but I have been reading further in to Drag, The MAHA drag figure is mainly based on tyre drag distortion between the two rollers and that the drag curve is a mathematically exponential calculus calculation! so can't be wrong! "Quoted by the wise old Owl" who wiser than most!!!!![/quote] Gregg, On that basis my V70 2.0D left the factory on 245/40 x 18 's and 136hp it has bigger tyres than your 850 and a 6 speed gearbox if it had say 86 hp of drag losses that would leave 50hp at the wheels. That is 50 hp to drag it along and it would need a huge radiator to keep the gearbox/transmission cool. As it happily does 120mph and doesn't have a transmission cooler I think we can safely assume that the drag losses aren't anything like 86 hp. If it is a "mathematically exponential calculus calculation" why does it change between runs? :) Oops, just realised I'm logged in as Nats !! Regards, Hamish.
[quote=hamish;425747]Drag Power 143.1 ...........somebody is cheating ![/quote] [quote=hamish;425756]Greg, 143.1hp / 105.3kW of Drag Power would generate a huge amount of heat. 84hp would also generate an awful lot of heat. As neither of your transmission systems have caught on fire I think is safe to assume that neither car has anything like that amount of drag loss from the transmission. Why are the figures for the 2 cars so different? Surely the transmission is nearly identical and they are both in good order I would expect the Drag losses to be nearly identical too. Regards, Hamish.[/quote] [quote=hamish;425774]Greg, I can assure you with Drag losses of 84 hp and 101hp and 143hp the guy is cheating. Your cars are both in good order and of very similar spec they shouldn't have excessive drag losses and they should have very similar drag losses. Regards, Hamish.[/quote] Hamish, I am glad you are not accusing me of cheating! However, I do start to worry when a so called specialist/tuner doesn't know how to read a full power graph properly. Before my car went on to the dyno, Martin the operator asked what sort of power was I expecting, I said the turbo was rated between 400-450bhp depending on the application, but I wasn't sure so I stated 400bhp. As you can clearly see, the maximum attained RPM was 7150 at a speed of 297.5kmh, that equates to roughly 186mph, we can clearly ascertain that the run was done in 5th gear, thus avoiding wheel spin. I will come back to this point later by answering your question. Once the maximum RPM was reached you can see the car made 309.6Whp at 6380rpm at a speed of 165mph, the operator presses the clutch and selects neutral and lets the car coast to a stop. During the coast down, the dyno measures the accumulated losses of the transmission system, which includes driveshafts, wheels and tyres (143.1bhp). The drag of the tyres on the rollers has a huge and much greater effect than those on the road due to each tyre sitting between two small rollers. After the coast down is complete it is a simple calculation, add the wheel horse power (309.6) to the drag horse power (143.1) and you get 452.7bhp. You asked 'Why are the figures for the 2 cars so different?' The drag curve is exponential. The faster you go the higher the drag loss. My car hit it's maximum power at 165mph in 5th gear with a maximum drag loss of 143.1bhp, Gregs hit maximum power at 132mph at 6445rpm with a maximum drag loss of 84bhp. Clearly Gregs was run in 4th gear. At 132mph, there is far less drag than at 165mph. Needless to say, both cars are not doing the same speed at the same RPM, which is why the figures for the two cars are so different. As a tuner/specialists, you would have known that though right?
[quote=smithness;425965]hi greg wot mods is your car running if u don't mind me asking.[/quote] No Secrets here!! Replaced with: 16T with different wheel & slightly lager housing about the same as a 19T Block and liners dipped in Liquid nitrogen bath and strengthened China Rods Standard Volvo pistons & rings Standard Crank bearing's standard valves and lifters Standard T5 Cams Uprated lightened & Balanced flywheel R Clutch Flowed head 75mm IC Reverse IC pipe work Setrab oil cooler Volvo 960 throttle body 470cc injectors 3" DP with 100 cel cat BSR cone Heat soaking chandelier going back to standard air box though! Custom one of map And the thing which made the most difference was the Water Injection, once that was fitted the gains where amazing has to be said! Before i would have been willing to bet my genitals on it making no difference? But then i would have been a unique! Other mods Gripper Diff Short shift 928 GTS front brakes, Porsche Cayenne rear brakes 330mm S60 R disks all round And pro race 1.2's all round Koni yellows IPD ARB's Polly bushed Pretty standard really! just a simple recipe put together by Tim williams who built it and custom mapped it with Ben The thing that makes all the difference is the WI and the map. The mapping was done on a runway with data logging then adjustments made! with 320 bhp Its a very usable car right across the rev range, to want more power you could use a 19T from owens or a KKK24 they will give you closer to 350 bhp if you get it mapped properly, if you want massive power like Steve then Garrett it is! GT series I think is the best option for our cars, the GT28 or the GT30, which is what steve uses, We have seen the Peril has the GT35 which is to big for our cars and produces a lot of lag and with the poor mapping of shoving every thing it has at it in one go, once it comes on boost! It munches gear box's! its all about how it drives in the real world at the end of the day on the road or on the track/quarter what ever takes your fancy! Thanks Greg
[quote=BlackBeast;426044] You asked 'Why are the figures for the 2 cars so different?' The drag curve is exponential. The faster you go the higher the drag loss. My car hit it's maximum power at 165mph in 5th gear with a maximum drag loss of 143.1bhp, Gregs hit maximum power at 132mph at 6445rpm with a maximum drag loss of 84bhp. Clearly Gregs was run in 4th gear. At 132mph, there is far less drag than at 165mph. Needless to say, both cars are not doing the same speed at the same RPM, which is why the figures for the two cars are so different. As a tuner/specialists, you would have known that though right?[/quote] You beat me to it Steve. Drag is proportional to the cube of your speed - hence the very wide distribution of drag losses. I'm not going to venture into the "Marlin Motorsport are cheats" debate as that would be sinking quite low without evidence. Dynos are not equal as they all use different physical methods and software algorithms. However, the (very basic) maths still stands. With respect to drag it applies in the real world just as much e.g A hypothetical car needs 100bhp to acheive 100mph top speed and will need roughly 800bhp for 200mph ie: drag (air, tyre, transmission etc) does NOT increase linearly with speed but is proportional to the cube of speed. HTH
[quote=Nathlm;426021]Gregg, If it is a "mathematically exponential calculus calculation" why does it change between runs? Regards, Hamish.[/quote] Did you not just answer your own question?
[quote=hamish;425802]Hi, I would have thought 20hp +/-5hp is more realistic for these cars. Some Volvos might be a tiny bit more but not these crazy figures you were given at the weekend. If those Drag losses are true it would explain why your fuel consumption is so poor :) Regards, Hamish.[/quote] You know how I feel about dynos Hamish but where are you getting this information from? If you are going to make an argument that rubbishes another tuning company on a public forum then how about some substance?
[quote=BlackBeast;426044]Hamish, I am glad you are not accusing me of cheating! However, I do start to worry when a so called specialist/tuner doesn't know how to read a full power graph properly. Before my car went on to the dyno, Martin the operator asked what sort of power was I expecting, I said the turbo was rated between 400-450bhp depending on the application, but I wasn't sure so I stated 400bhp. As you can clearly see, the maximum attained RPM was 7150 at a speed of 297.5kmh, that equates to roughly 186mph, we can clearly ascertain that the run was done in 5th gear, thus avoiding wheel spin. I will come back to this point later by answering your question. Once the maximum RPM was reached you can see the car made 309.6Whp at 6380rpm at a speed of 165mph, the operator presses the clutch and selects neutral and lets the car coast to a stop. During the coast down, the dyno measures the accumulated losses of the transmission system, which includes driveshafts, wheels and tyres (143.1bhp). The drag of the tyres on the rollers has a huge and much greater effect than those on the road due to each tyre sitting between two small rollers. After the coast down is complete it is a simple calculation, add the wheel horse power (309.6) to the drag horse power (143.1) and you get 452.7bhp. You asked 'Why are the figures for the 2 cars so different?' The drag curve is exponential. The faster you go the higher the drag loss. My car hit it's maximum power at 165mph in 5th gear with a maximum drag loss of 143.1bhp, Gregs hit maximum power at 132mph at 6445rpm with a maximum drag loss of 84bhp. Clearly Gregs was run in 4th gear. At 132mph, there is far less drag than at 165mph. Needless to say, both cars are not doing the same speed at the same RPM, which is why the figures for the two cars are so different. As a tuner/specialists, you would have known that though right?[/quote] Cheers for that, but just a few things. It was me asking why the % of loss was so varied. Is your car 6spd then? Just wondering why you did it it 5th. The size of the tyres doesn't have a huge effect on the drag. Of course it will have an effect, just like many things do, but not as much as you are saying and certainly not expentially as someone else has said. Bloody hell, if that was the case, i can't imagine what the losses would be on a super car running 335s?? If that is true, then i'm gonna tell someone i know that next time he takes his skyline to a dyno, that he should take his 275 18s off and fit some smaller tyres. As noone has answered me, i'm assuming that the s60rs had the highest losses?
[quote=BlackBeast;426044]Hamish, I am glad you are not accusing me of cheating! However, I do start to worry when a so called specialist/tuner doesn't know how to read a full power graph properly. Before my car went on to the dyno, Martin the operator asked what sort of power was I expecting, I said the turbo was rated between 400-450bhp depending on the application, but I wasn't sure so I stated 400bhp. As you can clearly see, the maximum attained RPM was 7150 at a speed of 297.5kmh, that equates to roughly 186mph, we can clearly ascertain that the run was done in 5th gear, thus avoiding wheel spin. I will come back to this point later by answering your question. Once the maximum RPM was reached you can see the car made 309.6Whp at 6380rpm at a speed of 165mph, the operator presses the clutch and selects neutral and lets the car coast to a stop. During the coast down, the dyno measures the accumulated losses of the transmission system, which includes driveshafts, wheels and tyres (143.1bhp). The drag of the tyres on the rollers has a huge and much greater effect than those on the road due to each tyre sitting between two small rollers. After the coast down is complete it is a simple calculation, add the wheel horse power (309.6) to the drag horse power (143.1) and you get 452.7bhp. You asked 'Why are the figures for the 2 cars so different?' The drag curve is exponential. The faster you go the higher the drag loss. My car hit it's maximum power at 165mph in 5th gear with a maximum drag loss of 143.1bhp, Gregs hit maximum power at 132mph at 6445rpm with a maximum drag loss of 84bhp. Clearly Gregs was run in 4th gear. At 132mph, there is far less drag than at 165mph. Needless to say, both cars are not doing the same speed at the same RPM, which is why the figures for the two cars are so different. As a tuner/specialists, you would have known that though right?[/quote] As I thought you haven't ot a clue how to operate a Dyno Correctly and get accurate data. If Martin at Marlin is doing some of the things you say he is then he is also clueless. Knocking the car into neutral? Using 5th Gear ? Using 5th gear to avoid wheelspin !! Drag losses of 145hp are simply not credible the heat generated would be sufficient to melt metal in a very short space of time.
[quote=LiamT4;426133]Cheers for that, but just a few things. It was me asking why the % of loss was so varied. Is your car 6spd then? Just wondering why you did it it 5th. The size of the tyres doesn't have a huge effect on the drag. Of course it will have an effect, just like many things do, but not as much as you are saying and certainly not expentially as someone else has said. Bloody hell, if that was the case, i can't imagine what the losses would be on a super car running 335s?? If that is true, then i'm gonna tell someone i know that next time he takes his skyline to a dyno, that he should take his 275 18s off and fit some smaller tyres. As noone has answered me, i'm assuming that the s60rs had the highest losses?[/quote] Hi Liam, just to clarify - tyre drag will increase exponentially (cubicly) with speed not width ie: a tyre with double the width won't have 8 times more drag. Armed with the maths/physics it should be easier to understand that drag is going to soar with increasing speed which is why the power needed to overcome it appears to increase wildly out of proportion with speed itself. We should not be expecting to see identical outcomes on drag loss between vehicles if peak power occurs at different rpms - even if peak power is the same for 2 vehicles. I think it's worth digging deeper when spurious information is thrown into the mix by the apparently skilled amongst us. Ta, Huw.
[quote=LiamT4;426133]Cheers for that, but just a few things. It was me asking why the % of loss was so varied. Is your car 6spd then? Just wondering why you did it it 5th. The size of the tyres doesn't have a huge effect on the drag. Of course it will have an effect, just like many things do, but not as much as you are saying and certainly not expentially as someone else has said. Bloody hell, if that was the case, i can't imagine what the losses would be on a super car running 335s?? If that is true, then i'm gonna tell someone i know that next time he takes his skyline to a dyno, that he should take his 275 18s off and fit some smaller tyres. As noone has answered me, i'm assuming that the s60rs had the highest losses?[/quote] no some of the lowest mate
the best way to sort this is to sort a charity dyno run in the new year with the permission of hlm bromsgrove and lets take all our cars there .that should see some good results again all on the same rollers .hlm uses a single roller too .lets see who would be up for that you cannot beat a inter forum challenge lol.and it would be good because a charity will get some money and it would be a nice saturday out and meet some new faces.
[quote=jardon;426089]You know how I feel about dynos Hamish but where are you getting this information from? If you are going to make an argument that rubbishes another tuning company on a public forum then how about some substance?[/quote] Huw, Some of us don't need to reference an internet search engine everytime they think about something technical. Lets just think about this shall we before we start fighting like Welsh Girls on a Friday Night. ......say we jack up the front wheels of your T5 so they are both clear of the ground. We then start it up and drive it through the gears how much power is it going to need to drive the wheels upto 150 mph ? Not much ? Now lets simulate the drag losses of the tyres on the road by putting the car onto a large diameter roller and for the purpose of this experiment the roller has minimal mass and perfect bearings. How much power will we need to drive your T5 wheels at 150mph on the roller? Not much more ? What do you think Huw? 20hp perhaps 25hp for the second part of the experiment ? .........
[quote=jardon;426157]Hi Liam, just to clarify - tyre drag will increase exponentially (cubicly) with speed not width ie: a tyre with double the width won't have 8 times more drag. Armed with the maths/physics it should be easier to understand that drag is going to soar with increasing speed which is why the power needed to overcome it appears to increase wildly out of proportion with speed itself. We should not be expecting to see identical outcomes on drag loss between vehicles if peak power occurs at different rpms - even if peak power is the same for 2 vehicles. I think it's worth digging deeper when spurious information is thrown into the mix by the apparently skilled amongst us. Ta, Huw.[/quote] Huw, No one is expecting them to be identical just similar and realistic. Come on use your brain man. I doubt you would need 140hp to turn the engine over at 7000rpm.
[quote=smithy;426171]the best way to sort this is to sort a charity dyno run in the new year with the permission of hlm bromsgrove and lets take all our cars there .that should see some good results again all on the same rollers .hlm uses a single roller too .lets see who would be up for that you cannot beat a inter forum challenge lol.and it would be good because a charity will get some money and it would be a nice saturday out and meet some new faces.[/quote] I would be up for that Smithy! Not sure how many other people would though! So what Spec where you running in relation to that graph you posted? Cheers Greg
[quote=GregE102;426200]I would be up for that Smithy! Not sure how many other people would though! So what Spec where you running in relation to that graph you posted? Cheers Greg[/quote] ive never posted a graph mate and i drive a slow low powered 940 dont forget
[quote=smithy;426202]ive never posted a graph mate and i drive a slow low powered 940 dont forget[/quote] My Bad who posted the graph then? lol! Ah I see sorry James!!!
[quote=GregE102;426205]My Bad who posted the graph then? lol! Ah I see sorry James!!![/quote] it would be good to do though you never know i might get higher than 136 bhp mate lol
[quote=hamish;426178] ......say we jack up the front wheels of your T5 so they are both clear of the ground. We then start it up and drive it through the gears how much power is it going to need to drive the wheels upto 150 mph ? Not much ? Now lets simulate the drag losses of the tyres on the road by putting the car onto a large diameter roller and for the purpose of this experiment the roller has minimal mass and perfect bearings. How much power will we need to drive your T5 wheels at 150mph on the roller? Not much more ? What do you think Huw? 20hp perhaps 25hp for the second part of the experiment ? .........[/quote] I was under the impression that some Dyno rollers had a form of drag applied to them to simulate road conditions. Therefor every dyno can and will give different results, yes? Also, the Dyno at Marlin technically has 4 rollers, not one. (2 per wheel. Thats 8 for the AWD cars!) I also note (little earlier in the thread) that you are accusing the guys at Marlin of "cheating" ... Would you like to suggest a Dyno operator that doesn't supposedly "cheat"? Can you explain to me what they would have to gain by increasing a power output of a car when they aren't doing any tuning work to the car? I would understand it if they promised someone a custom map with XXHP Gain, but when a club is running cars with no tuning happening, they have nothing to gain. Is someone willing to run their car at RT/HLM/Whatever its called, and then on the dyno at Marlin. That would show if theres a difference in results.
[quote=hamish;426154]As I thought you haven't ot a clue how to operate a Dyno Correctly and get accurate data. If Martin at Marlin is doing some of the things you say he is then he is also clueless. Knocking the car into neutral? Using 5th Gear ? Using 5th gear to avoid wheelspin !! Drag losses of 145hp are simply not credible the heat generated would be sufficient to melt metal in a very short space of time.[/quote] Why not educate yourself on the MAHA dyno, which is a completely different system to what you are used to? Whether you can't understand it, really isn't my problem. That is how it works. Phone Maha themselves. How does your dynojet measure drag?
[quote=Villan;426209] the Dyno at Marlin technically has 4 rollers, not one. (2 per wheel. Thats 8 for the AWD cars!)[/quote] so what loses did the AWD boys get?
[quote=smithy;426208]it would be good to do though you never know i might get higher than 136 bhp mate lol[/quote] They are all Volvo's at the end of the day! thats what counts! plus it would be for charity!
[quote=GregE102;426205]My Bad who posted the graph then? lol! Ah I see sorry James!!![/quote] "when i get it running" it now has a t35 hybrid/s60r mani/forged rods/81.4mm pistons(volvo)/3" DP and 3" TB, everything else same as before lol, dont really care what the fig's say just want to be able to drive it nicely on the road's and get down the 1/4 mile in under 13secs lol.
[quote=p fandango;426217]so what loses did the AWD boys get?[/quote] Go have a look over on T5D5 there are graphs posted up there! Don't worry I don't bite! Hard! xxx
[quote=jamest5r;426220]"when i get it running" it now has a t35 hybrid/s60r mani/forged rods/81.4mm pistons(volvo)/3" DP and 3" TB, everything else same as before lol, dont really care what the fig's say just want to be able to drive it nicely on the road's and get down the 1/4 mile in under 13secs lol.[/quote] Thats sounds interesting spec! What make and spec is the T35 and what other turbo's could you compeer it to? Like you said Dyno's mean nothing at the end of the day its how it goes down the road/track/ 1/4 at the end of the day what ever takes your fancy! Cheers Greg
[quote=GregE102;426222]Go have a look over on T5D5 there are graphs posted up there! Don't worry I don't bite! Hard! xxx[/quote] as i'm not worthy of posting i'll give it a miss thanks ;)
[quote=p fandango;426227]as i'm not worthy of posting i'll give it a miss thanks ;)[/quote] Oh come on I will show you mine if you show me your's! Every one is welcome on any forum! As long as you not band i suppose? Greg
[quote=GregE102]Every one is welcome on any forum! As long as you not band i suppose?[/quote]
not banned. Despite already having made 885 posts my account needs moderator validating again for some reason, funny that lol
[quote=GregE102;426225]Thats sounds interesting spec! What make and spec is the T35 and what other turbo's could you compeer it to? Like you said Dyno's mean nothing at the end of the day its how it goes down the road/track/ 1/4 at the end of the day what ever takes your fancy! Cheers Greg[/quote] I can only tell you the basic's of the turbo mate, Smithy had it built by turbo technics as a one off a couple of years ago for his V70 he will give you the full spec as i cant remember exactly, it is a garret that has a cossie compressor wheel and a pulsar exhaust side rated at 2.2 bar max, Smithy got 300WHP @ 1.3bar on Hlm r/r on a custom map by Adam/Hamish. The only reason i got my mitts on it is Smithy now has a T38 so beware of his "slow" 940 lol :) No idea what to compare it to but im guessing in the GT3071 area ??
[quote=p fandango;426246]not banned. Despite already having made 885 posts my account needs moderator validating again for some reason, funny that lol
[/quote]
Send one of the Mods a PM then?
I only play on the swings there!
So what spec are your car's and what have you made on the Random number generators over the years? with your cars?
[quote=GregE102;426250]Send one of the Mods a PM then?[/quote] nah, i'm alright thanks
So what spec are your car's and what have you made on the Random number generators over the years? with your cars?BT made 250bhp on a dyno at place in Leicester (19t, few other little tweaks but nothing special back then), & Bonny made 174bhp at Powerstation despite being standard. I'm more interested in the 1/4mile times
[quote=jamest5r;426249]I can only tell you the basic's of the turbo mate, Smithy had it built by turbo technics as a one off a couple of years ago for his V70 he will give you the full spec as i cant remember exactly, it is a garret that has a cossie compressor wheel and a pulsar exhaust side rated at 2.2 bar max, Smithy got 300WHP @ 1.3bar on Hlm r/r on a custom map by Adam/Hamish. The only reason i got my mitts on it is Smithy now has a T38 so beware of his "slow" 940 lol :) No idea what to compare it to but im guessing in the GT3071 area ??[/quote] 2.2 bar? Holy Sh*t!!!! Mine little turbo is only running just under 1.2 bar and my wheel power is 235 Hp! what mods will you have for running that kind of turbo then? As for the 940? RWD! He should not struggle to get a better launch than a T5 (FWD = Grip = ?) and with a T38 which i take it is same as but bigger than what he had sounds like it will easily do 13's as he hopped lol I think Tez told me he had a T28 and that was supposed to be a good turbo! Cheers Greg
[quote=GregE102;426046]No Secrets here!! Replaced with: 16T with different wheel & slightly lager housing about the same as a 19T Block and liners dipped in Liquid nitrogen bath and strengthened China Rods Standard Volvo pistons & rings Standard Crank bearing's standard valves and lifters Standard T5 Cams Uprated lightened & Balanced flywheel R Clutch Flowed head 75mm IC Reverse IC pipe work Setrab oil cooler Volvo 960 throttle body 470cc injectors 3" DP with 100 cel cat BSR cone Heat soaking chandelier going back to standard air box though! Custom one of map And the thing which made the most difference was the Water Injection, once that was fitted the gains where amazing has to be said! Before i would have been willing to bet my genitals on it making no difference? But then i would have been a unique! Other mods Gripper Diff Short shift 928 GTS front brakes, Porsche Cayenne rear brakes 330mm S60 R disks all round And pro race 1.2's all round Koni yellows IPD ARB's Polly bushed Pretty standard really! just a simple recipe put together by Tim williams who built it and custom mapped it with Ben The thing that makes all the difference is the WI and the map. The mapping was done on a runway with data logging then adjustments made! with 320 bhp Its a very usable car right across the rev range, to want more power you could use a 19T from owens or a KKK24 they will give you closer to 350 bhp if you get it mapped properly, if you want massive power like Steve then Garrett it is! GT series I think is the best option for our cars, the GT28 or the GT30, which is what steve uses, We have seen the Peril has the GT35 which is to big for our cars and produces a lot of lag and with the poor mapping of shoving every thing it has at it in one go, once it comes on boost! It munches gear box's! its all about how it drives in the real world at the end of the day on the road or on the track/quarter what ever takes your fancy! Thanks Greg[/quote]nice mods mate similar spec to my car cheers
[quote=p fandango;426254]nah, i'm alright thanks BT made 250bhp on a dyno at place in Leicester (19t, few other little tweaks but nothing special back then), & Bonny made 174bhp at Powerstation despite being standard. I'm more interested in the 1/4mile times[/quote] Tracks are my thing, even having only done one since the car was finished, I have been a passenger quite a few times and just love the speed going in out and round the bends especially with a diff. Never done a quarter mile? not really my thing? but each to their own! I may have a go one day when my clutch has well and truly bedded in!
[quote=smithness;426257]nice mods mate similar spec to my car cheers[/quote] Thanks it was a culmination of seeing what other mods people had used and what worked? A lot of guys gave me loads of info on what they had tried as well, and with the Help of suggestion Tim he has built a very tough & fast little car!!! Of course the mapping is down to Tim & Ben. As you saw in my graph the power curve is fantastic and shows on a RR Between them they they have aced mapping the 4.3 Your sounds like it will be fast when you get the turbo all done and fitted!!!! Cheers Greg
[quote=GregE102;426255]2.2 bar? Holy Sh*t!!!! Mine little turbo is only running just under 1.2 bar and my wheel power is 235 Hp! what mods will you have for running that kind of turbo then? As for the 940? RWD! He should not struggle to get a better launch than a T5 (FWD = Grip = ?) and with a T38 which i take it is same as but bigger than what he had sounds like it will easily do 13's as he hopped lol I think Tez told me he had a T28 and that was supposed to be a good turbo! Cheers Greg[/quote] I will only be running it at max of about 1.6bar all depends on how the power is put down as i said not after any max figs just want it to be at the max point of grip/drivability and because of the small pulsar housing/wheel it spools up early :) If Smithy get's everything hooked up properly as he also has a fully forged engine to go in i can see him breaking the 13sec barrier.
[quote=GregE102;426260]Tracks are my thing, even having only done one since the car was finished, I have been a passenger quite a few times and just love the speed going in out and round the bends especially with a diff. Never done a quarter mile? not really my thing? but each to their own! I may have a go one day when my clutch has well and truly bedded in![/quote] done a few laps myself (never in my own car lol) & yeh they are very good. Already promised a few friends we'll do some trackdays when BT's done, can't see it being too many tho because of the costs. Most people are surprised how addictive 1/4mile can be even tho its only a straight line
[quote=hamish;426178]Huw, Some of us don't need to reference an internet search engine everytime they think about something technical. ? Lets just think about this shall we before we start fighting like Welsh Girls on a Friday Night. ......say we jack up the front wheels of your T5 so they are both clear of the ground. We then start it up and drive it through the gears how much power is it going to need to drive the wheels upto 150 mph ? Not much ? Now lets simulate the drag losses of the tyres on the road by putting the car onto a large diameter roller and for the purpose of this experiment the roller has minimal mass and perfect bearings. How much power will we need to drive your T5 wheels at 150mph on the roller? Not much more ? What do you think Huw? 20hp perhaps 25hp for the second part of the experiment ? .........[/ Why would you assume no load on the transmission? quote]
[quote=jamest5r;426266]I will only be running it at max of about 1.6bar all depends on how the power is put down as i said not after any max figs just want it to be at the max point of grip/drivability and because of the small pulsar housing/wheel it spools up early :) If Smithy get's everything hooked up properly as he also has a fully forged engine to go in i can see him breaking the 13sec barrier.[/quote] Thats like my turbo comes in quite early then builds nicely all the way to the top any more would lose traction I think, I use Federal RS-R 235 40 17 tyres and when they got hot on track last year they where amazing just no spin what so ever! I am betting smithy breaks the 13's barrier by a good margin, as you say if he hooks it all up!!! Cheers Greg
[quote=GregE102;426265]Thanks it was a culmination of seeing what other mods people had used and what worked? A lot of guys gave me loads of info on what they had tried as well, and with the Help of suggestion Tim he has built a very tough & fast little car!!! Of course the mapping is down to Tim & Ben. As you saw in my graph the power curve is fantastic and shows on a RR Between them they they have aced mapping the 4.3 Your sounds like it will be fast when you get the turbo all done and fitted!!!! Cheers Greg[/quote]cheers greg my one is running t5-tez`s bits off his old red 850 barring the turbo used as a 19t polished and ported works well with the mte map that marco has ad his hand on running a round 320plus.
[quote=p fandango;426267]done a few laps myself (never in my own car lol) & yeh they are very good. Already promised a few friends we'll do some trackdays when BT's done, can't see it being too many tho because of the costs. Most people are surprised how addictive 1/4mile can be even tho its only a straight line[/quote] I built my car for the track with extra cooling mods large IC Extra Oil cooler and WI for intake temps I also have 2 sets of pro race wheels 1 with road tyres and the other with Track tyres so its really just down to Fuel, which i hope will come down? lol But saying that I am not sure how much a run down a strip is and how much fuel a run uses as your giving it the beans? so in terms of track to quarter I wonder what the difference in cost is?
[quote=GregE102;426277]I built my car for the track with extra cooling mods large IC Extra Oil cooler and WI for intake temps I also have 2 sets of pro race wheels 1 with road tyres and the other with Track tyres so its really just down to Fuel, which i hope will come down? lol But saying that I am not sure how much a run down a strip is and how much fuel a run uses as your giving it the beans? so in terms of track to quarter I wonder what the difference in cost is?[/quote] dont use much fuel on the 1/4 mile
[quote=t5frankie;424775]as i was only 2 miles away from this this morning i thought it would be rude not to have a gander, there was a couple of tuned s60rs making around 340bhp, chris made 330bhp and ed 275ish, my car made a nice 298.1 bhp which was nice lol ***Pictures Removed***[/quote] I bet your really glad you went along now !!!
[quote=smithness;426273]cheers greg my one is running t5-tez`s bits off his old red 850 barring the turbo used as a 19t polished and ported works well with the mte map that marco has ad his hand on running a round 320plus.[/quote] That was a quick car! I was chatting about it with him on Saturday! That sounds very nice!!! Cheers Greg
So who made the highest torque figure ?
[quote=GregE102;426277]I built my car for the track with extra cooling mods large IC Extra Oil cooler and WI for intake temps I also have 2 sets of pro race wheels 1 with road tyres and the other with Track tyres so its really just down to Fuel, which i hope will come down? lol But saying that I am not sure how much a run down a strip is and how much fuel a run uses as your giving it the beans? so in terms of track to quarter I wonder what the difference in cost is?[/quote] if you break it down to track time per £ then i have no doubt trackdays will work out better value, but its the intial costs of £100ish to do it. Best i've had is 11runs in 1 day, but put into the equation that you still get a full day out with the group & fact its only cost £35 makes the overall spend alot easier on the wallet
[quote=BlackBeast;425725]1st run
2nd run
[/quote]
Looks like good power there, bet your pleased. One thing I would check out is the spikes along the power graph. It looks like the management may be detecting det and retarding the ignition slightly? Might be worth checking, other than that good job :)
[quote=Wobbly Dave;425729]At the risk of repeating myself - it is not possible to get a crank power figure for an automatic transmission. As Liam pointed out - the flywheel figure is calculated on the drag back figure once the clutch is disengaged. Given that this is not possible on an automatic as the torque converter with all that spinning ATF in it is BOLTED to the flywheel - the transmission is never truly disengaged - even if the selector is put into N - the stator is still spinning. The given figure is there for the flywheel, torque converter, input shaft/stator + ATF figure. Bit of a mouthful when you try to explain it down the pub!
WHP only for autos - the rest is pure guess work.[/quote]
Agreed, that is a downside to doing a power run on an auto, flywheel power is guess work, although as with everything it's the power at the wheels that counts not the power at the flywheel on any car be it manual or auto because that's the part that gets the car moving :)
[quote=smithy;426202]ive never posted a graph mate and i drive a slow low powered 940 dont forget[/quote]
Yeah right...
[quote=smithy;426208]it would be good to do though you never know i might get higher than 136 bhp mate lol[/quote]
;)
[quote=Villan;426209]I was under the impression that some Dyno rollers had a form of drag applied to them to simulate road conditions. Therefor every dyno can and will give different results, yes? [/quote] They all work differently and cross comparison is futile. Maha wheel bhp results are meaningless - perhaps they would be better off calling it roller bhp so as to avoid confusion when comparing with other dyno whp results? Coming back to drag/coast/transmission/tyre or whatever losses none of these machines are perfect at measuring them - some even make a percentage "guess" based on FWD/RWD etc. I must confess to a touch of googlitis in fleshing out Hamish's claim that poor Marlin were liars and came across this from a Powerstation Maha operative - the car involved made stock flywheel power as expected but the owner couldn't get his head around the huge disparity between wheel and flywheel power. I found that really helpful and I am dismayed that Hamish's first response was "cheats" when he likely knew the answer all along. [COLOR="Red"]As you will have seen, when your car was on the rolling road, it is gently accelerated and progressed into the appropriate gear for the run. This gear is determined by the power of your car and the speed achieved when peak rpm is reached. If we tried to run your car in say third gear we would not be able to stop it wheel spinning and also the acceleration of the vehicle would be far to quick. In sixth gear the run would take much to long and the terminal speed would be too high, so we chose 5th gear (Andy will make this choice almost instantly through experience). Once he is in 5th gear he will push the accelerator to the floor. The car will be allowed to accelerate at a fixed rate by the dyno’s power absorber varying the resistance at the rollers. Once the power starts to drop away on the graph the operator will clutch in and select neutral. He then lets the vehicle coast to a standstill. Whilst the coast down phase in operation the dyno measures the drag caused by the accumulated losses of gearbox, diff bearings and (much more than anything else) by the tyres on the rollers. The drag of the tyres on the rollers as huge and much greater than those experienced on the road. This is because on the road the tyre sits on a flat surface whereas on the rollers it is deformed by two, fairly small radius, contact patches. It is important to note that on the Maha dyno the drag curve is not calculated it is measured, it is real. The fly wheel figure is calculated by adding the wheels figure and drag figure together, both of which are real world measurements. Some things to consider when looking at your graph. 1. The drag curve is exponential. The faster you go the steeper the curve. This how you ended up with a very high drag figure, your car will have hit over 140mph. 2. The wheels figure is meaningless without a drag curve. If I ran your car in 4th gear you may have 140bhp/120mph at the wheels. If I then ran it in 5th gear you would have around say 125bhp/145mph. The engine is still producing the same power so why are the two figures different? It is because of our old friend the drag curve. At 120mph there is a far lower drag than at 145mph so the wheels figures will differ. 3. Some dyno’s do not have the ability to measure drag so they are forced to try and calculate it (dyno dynamics etc.). In my experience this calculation is always flawed for the simple reason that the drag curve rises exponentially. The favourite way they calculate this is by adding a percentage to the wheels figure. This can never work as the drag of the tyres is not influenced by the power of the engine in any way. A good little check you can do with your graph is to look at the peak power rpm at the wheels. Because of the shape of the drag curve this will always be at a lower point than the peak power rpm at the flywheel. If they are the same then the calculation used is fatally flawed and must, by the laws of physics, be giving you incorrect information. I hope this is of use to you and has given an incite into how the dyno works. I have great faith in our Maha dyno and this faith is shared by a number of vehicle manufacturers and major race teams who use this unit. Best regards Rich Powerstation UK Ltd. [/COLOR]
[quote=BlackBeast;426212]Why not educate yourself on the MAHA dyno, which is a completely different system to what you are used to? Whether you can't understand it, really isn't my problem. That is how it works. Phone Maha themselves. How does your dynojet measure drag?[/quote] Owned a Maha Dyno before the Dynojet. Wouldn't go back. I'm not the one that's cheating the power figures by giving people dyno sheets with huge drag losses.
[quote=hamish;426326]Owned a Maha Dyno before the Dynojet. Wouldn't go back. I'm not the one that's cheating the power figures by giving people dyno sheets with huge drag losses.[/quote] I think you are at crossed purposes with Steve Hamish - or are you being deliberately misleading? I think you know that Maha WHP and drag measurements are nothing like the same as Dynojet or DD etc - particularly as you say you have experience of Maha dynos. Hardly professional or responsible as a trader to put forward "liars/cheats/welsh girls" nonsense rather than an explanation that would be really helpful for anybody using a dyno. Try to see further than your till man!!! I await the next instalment.
[quote=jardon;426321]They all work differently and cross comparison is futile. Maha wheel bhp results are meaningless - perhaps they would be better off calling it roller bhp so as to avoid confusion when comparing with other dyno whp results? Coming back to drag/coast/transmission/tyre or whatever losses none of these machines are perfect at measuring them - some even make a percentage "guess" based on FWD/RWD etc. I must confess to a touch of googlitis in fleshing out Hamish's claim that poor Marlin were liars and came across this from a Powerstation Maha operative - the car involved made stock flywheel power as expected but the owner couldn't get his head around the huge disparity between wheel and flywheel power. I found that really helpful and I am dismayed that Hamish's first response was "cheats" when he likely knew the answer all along. [COLOR="Red"]As you will have seen, when your car was on the rolling road, it is gently accelerated and progressed into the appropriate gear for the run. This gear is determined by the power of your car and the speed achieved when peak rpm is reached. If we tried to run your car in say third gear we would not be able to stop it wheel spinning and also the acceleration of the vehicle would be far to quick. In sixth gear the run would take much to long and the terminal speed would be too high, so we chose 5th gear (Andy will make this choice almost instantly through experience). Once he is in 5th gear he will push the accelerator to the floor. The car will be allowed to accelerate at a fixed rate by the dyno’s power absorber varying the resistance at the rollers. Once the power starts to drop away on the graph the operator will clutch in and select neutral. He then lets the vehicle coast to a standstill. Whilst the coast down phase in operation the dyno measures the drag caused by the accumulated losses of gearbox, diff bearings and (much more than anything else) by the tyres on the rollers. The drag of the tyres on the rollers as huge and much greater than those experienced on the road. This is because on the road the tyre sits on a flat surface whereas on the rollers it is deformed by two, fairly small radius, contact patches. It is important to note that on the Maha dyno the drag curve is not calculated it is measured, it is real. The fly wheel figure is calculated by adding the wheels figure and drag figure together, both of which are real world measurements. Some things to consider when looking at your graph. 1. The drag curve is exponential. The faster you go the steeper the curve. This how you ended up with a very high drag figure, your car will have hit over 140mph. 2. The wheels figure is meaningless without a drag curve. If I ran your car in 4th gear you may have 140bhp/120mph at the wheels. If I then ran it in 5th gear you would have around say 125bhp/145mph. The engine is still producing the same power so why are the two figures different? It is because of our old friend the drag curve. At 120mph there is a far lower drag than at 145mph so the wheels figures will differ. 3. Some dyno’s do not have the ability to measure drag so they are forced to try and calculate it (dyno dynamics etc.). In my experience this calculation is always flawed for the simple reason that the drag curve rises exponentially. The favourite way they calculate this is by adding a percentage to the wheels figure. This can never work as the drag of the tyres is not influenced by the power of the engine in any way. A good little check you can do with your graph is to look at the peak power rpm at the wheels. Because of the shape of the drag curve this will always be at a lower point than the peak power rpm at the flywheel. If they are the same then the calculation used is fatally flawed and must, by the laws of physics, be giving you incorrect information. I hope this is of use to you and has given an incite into how the dyno works. I have great faith in our Maha dyno and this faith is shared by a number of vehicle manufacturers and major race teams who use this unit. Best regards Rich Powerstation UK Ltd. [/COLOR][/quote] Oh dear Huw, Your expert is making 2 school boy errors : 1) Always use the most direct gear which is nearly always 4th. 2) Don't select neutral when measuring the drag losses. So Maha's wheel power figure isn't really wheel power it is a sufficiently deflated figure that when added to the excessively high drag loss figure caused by the double tyre deflection on the twin roller gives something close to a manufacturers on standard cars.
[quote=hamish;426344]Oh dear Huw, Your expert is making 2 school boy errors : 1) Always use the most direct gear which is nearly always 4th. 2) Don't select neutral when measuring the drag losses. So Maha's wheel power figure isn't really wheel power it is a sufficiently deflated figure that when added to the excessively high drag loss figure caused by the double tyre deflection on the twin roller gives something close to a manufacturers on standard cars.[/quote] Agree to disagree on the first 2 points. I think in a roundabout way you've grasped how a Maha works.
One thing to Take into account is! ChrisH took his relatively new totally standard Alpine B3 along and put it on the RR! It made almost the exact figures quoted by the the Manufacture BHP & Torque! So on them grounds how could the rolling road be wrong? can't remember his drag figure? But it all worked out spot on? So how can the operator of been cheating or the RR of been wrong? Cheers Greg
Just looked Again Chris's figures matched exactly for "everything" quoted by the Manufacture, So guess the drag figures are unique to that RR and are spot on for the Calculation!
[quote=jardon;426333]I think you are at crossed purposes with Steve Hamish - or are you being deliberately misleading? I think you know that Maha WHP and drag measurements are nothing like the same as Dynojet or DD etc - particularly as you say you have experience of Maha dynos. Hardly professional or responsible as a trader to put forward "liars/cheats/welsh girls" nonsense rather than an explanation that would be really helpful for anybody using a dyno. Try to see further than your till man!!! I await the next instalment.[/quote] Huw, Deliberately misleading. Giving out a dyno sheet with 143hp of Drag Loss is deliberately misleading. Professional or responsible. Is giving out a dyno sheet with 143hp of Drag Loss proffessional or responsible ? Cheating. Adding 143hp of drag losses to a Wheel power figure IS CHEATING. Simple.
[quote=GregE102;426353]One thing to Take into account is! ChrisH took his relatively new totally standard Alpine B3 along and put it on the RR! It made almost the exact figures quoted by the the Manufacture BHP & Torque! So on them grounds how could the rolling road be wrong? can't remember his drag figure? But it all worked out spot on? So how can the operator of been cheating or the RR of been wrong? Cheers Greg[/quote] I'm guessing a dyno operator could aim for a known stock figure by manipulating drag etc. I'd be disappointed if that were true and going by the on-road performance of Saturdays cars the fly figures are not inflated. However, Hamish is confident enough in his convictions about Marlin that he's willing to label them as cheats on a public forum.
[quote=hamish;426371]Huw, Deliberately misleading. Giving out a dyno sheet with 143hp of Drag Loss is deliberately misleading. Professional or responsible. Is giving out a dyno sheet with 143hp of Drag Loss proffessional or responsible ? Cheating. Adding 143hp of drag losses to a Wheel power figure IS CHEATING. Simple.[/quote] Did you read the explanation of how Maha arrive at their figures. If you did you haven't understood. Why are you still digging?
[quote=jardon;426351]Agree to disagree on the first 2 points. I think in a roundabout way you've grasped how a Maha works.[/quote] Huw, You really are something special... The Maha is good rolling road but like any measuring device it needs to be used correctly to be accurate. If they do things like run cars in 5th gear I'm not surprised they get crazy drag losses.
[quote=jardon;426374]I'm guessing a dyno operator could aim for a known stock figure by manipulating drag etc. I'd be disappointed if that were true and going by the on-road performance of Saturdays cars the fly figures are not inflated. However, Hamish is confident enough in his convictions about Marlin that he's willing to label them as cheats on a public forum.[/quote] So, a dyno operator just happens to know the stock hp/torque/wheel drag of every make and model of every car out there? I was watching the operator most of the day, watching how the dyno works etc. and other than selecting OBD readouts, and FWD/RWD/AWD he didn't touch the settings for most of the day. Believe me, the on-the-road performance of some of those cars is staggering. I kept up for the first 2 roundabouts, got seperated from a few by some traffic, and they disappeared. I stand by my earlier call: Will someone have their car dyno'd at by both Hamish and Marlin? Frankie? We can then compare the graphs and see if any results have been "fudged"
Is there any real reason why this thread is now spanning 13 pages other than to cause unrest? Can we not all agree to disagree, I think we all agree that no two dynos are the same and that dyno results can only be described as rough guides at the best of times and that wheel power is the only "accurate", if you can use such a word, reading from any result. The fact is the car owners in question are happy with what their cars acheived end of story...
Look who has been cheating. :) +24hp of Corrected Power ?!! Look at the Air Intake Temp......63 DegC !!!!! Martin must have put the Air Intake Temp Sensor in his Cup of Tea and that is definately cheating. [ATTACH]11830[/ATTACH] Oops.
[quote=Villan;426388] I stand by my earlier call: Will someone have their car dyno'd at by both Hamish and Marlin? Frankie? We can then compare the graphs and see if any results have been "fudged"[/quote] Been there, done it, worn the T shirt. Shall we just say the results were very flattering.
Dyno debates have been keeping car forums busy for years. Read hitchhikers guide to the galaxy and the origin of '42' kinda the same thing :)
[quote=Villan;426388] Believe me, the on-the-road performance of some of those cars is staggering. I kept up for the first 2 roundabouts, got seperated from a few by some traffic, and they disappeared. [/quote] That has never been in question. I'm sure without any doubt that these cars are VERY fast on the road. Which in itself proves their Drag Losses aren't 84hp or 101hp or 123hp or 143hp !
[quote=hamish;426410]That has never been in question. I'm sure without any doubt that these cars are VERY fast on the road. Which in itself proves their Drag Losses aren't 84hp or 101hp or 123hp or 143hp ![/quote] Yes But! Drag figures aside! He got the Bhp Whp and torque exactly right on Chris's BMW! So surly it's part of an equation which unique to that RR which works? Just like pie, or Mc2, you may not be clever enough to understand why it works, i am not! But it just works! On one of your dyno charts earlier in this thread, it had no drag/run out graph! Some one could say your figures are wrong because they don't know or understand the equation your using to get to that figure? So can you tell/type what the figures should have quoted with them numbers? and show the equation/method you use to come to the conclusion then? And what our RR figures would have really been with your drag loss of around 20bhp +/-5 Bhp you told me earlier on then? Regards Greg
[quote=AndysR;426318]Looks like good power there, bet your pleased. One thing I would check out is the spikes along the power graph. It looks like the management may be detecting det and retarding the ignition slightly? Might be worth checking, other than that good job :) [/quote] Hi Andy, I need to do some datalogging to see if it does it on the road as that's where it counts. An electric fan that blows at 20-30mph is no substitute when doing those sorts of speeds on a dyno.
[quote=GregE102;426418] On one of your dyno charts earlier in this thread, it had no drag/run out graph! Some one could say your figures are wrong because they don't know or understand the equation your using to get to that figure? Regards Greg[/quote] Greg, It does show Drag Loss. You will see Power & Torque on the main graph. That is what you probably refer to as Wheel Power and Torque. The next graph shows Clutch Power or what some people call Flywheel power. At the end of the run the dyno operator dips the clutch and lets the car decelerate back down to say 75mph. Now we know the Mass of the Drum (Roller) we know the Diameter of the Drum ( Roller) and we know the time it takes to decelerate the Roller. So at any given road speed or RPM we have measured deceleration or Drag and we can apply this over the wheel power graph giving a very accurate Clutch power figure. You must also consider Dynojet's use a large diameter Roller giving the tyre an almost flat surface to sit on which replicates the road more closely. Easy as apple PIE using Pi 3.1416 !
[quote=hamish;426394]Look who has been cheating. :) +24hp of Corrected Power ?!! Look at the Air Intake Temp......63 DegC !!!!! Martin must have put the Air Intake Temp Sensor in his Cup of Tea and that is definately cheating. [ATTACH]11830[/ATTACH] Oops.[/quote] Hamish, you still haven't answered my question. I'll ask again and make it easy for you by not discussing the various differences between single/dual rollers: Should I suspect both operators at Powerstation and Marlin of 'cheating'? Also, whilst I'm here, can you explain how a certain T4 with standard exhaust, standard injectors, standard turbo (14T), 1.4bar map of some sort, claims to have reliably dyno'd in excess of 290bhp on your dyno? If I had known this before, I would've not spent the £££s on mine getting it to 370 bhp and come to you instead :) Edit: oooh I forgot, the car in question does have a FMIC which makes ALL the difference on the dyno ;)
STOP EVERYTHING!!!! I've run out of popcorn!
Got more now, CARRY ON! :buttkick:
[quote=martinrpeachey;426477]STOP EVERYTHING!!!! I've run out of popcorn![/quote] hahahaha
[quote=Villan;426388]Believe me, the on-the-road performance of some of those cars is staggering. I kept up for the first 2 roundabouts, got seperated from a few by some traffic, and they disappeared. [/quote] Sorry Villan that was me directly in front of you, keeping up with one of the S60R's, in my lowly but rare T-5R lol, running a standard 15g, I did wait for you though after having a little rag so you knew where we were going!!! Good to meet you by the way.. Scott..
[QUOTE=GregE102;426260]Tracks are my thing, even having only done one since the car was finished, I have been a passenger quite a few times and just love the speed going in out and round the bends especially with a diff. Never done a quarter mile? not really my thing? but each to their own! I may have a go one day when my clutch has well and truly bedded in![/QUOTE] Are you coming to WD40?
[quote=afzalmj;426447]Hamish, you still haven't answered my question. I'll ask again and make it easy for you by not discussing the various differences between single/dual rollers: Should I suspect both operators at Powerstation and Marlin of 'cheating'? Also, whilst I'm here, can you explain how a certain T4 with standard exhaust, standard injectors, standard turbo (14T), 1.4bar map of some sort, claims to have reliably dyno'd in excess of 290bhp on your dyno? If I had known this before, I would've not spent the £££s on mine getting it to 370 bhp and come to you instead :) Edit: oooh I forgot, the car in question does have a FMIC which makes ALL the difference on the dyno ;)[/quote] Mo would this be a bad time to mention, the last time you took me out in your car i could REALLY feel the water injection ****ing up your engine. You may need a trip to Bromsgrove to get it sorted. HTH.
[quote=afzalmj;426447]Hamish, you still haven't answered my question. I'll ask again and make it easy for you by not discussing the various differences between single/dual rollers: Should I suspect both operators at Powerstation and Marlin of 'cheating'? Also, whilst I'm here, can you explain how a certain T4 with standard exhaust, standard injectors, standard turbo (14T), 1.4bar map of some sort, claims to have reliably dyno'd in excess of 290bhp on your dyno? If I had known this before, I would've not spent the £££s on mine getting it to 370 bhp and come to you instead :) Edit: oooh I forgot, the car in question does have a FMIC which makes ALL the difference on the dyno ;)[/quote] Using Crazy High Drag Losses is cheating end of. I thought you lot were all for exposing cheats. With regards the 290hp T4....I have no idea what the hell you a talking about. I think you have been fed a story ! Wasn't on my dyno. I would have remembered clearing up the mess !:smile::finger:
[quote=hamish;426394]Look who has been cheating. :) +24hp of Corrected Power ?!! Look at the Air Intake Temp......63 DegC !!!!! Martin must have put the Air Intake Temp Sensor in his Cup of Tea and that is definately cheating. [ATTACH]11830[/ATTACH] Oops.[/quote] Nice try Hamish. I have seen my IAT's that high on the road before WI - some folks get 70+ with the HLM hybrid. I have also seen you state "corrected to DIN" - my dyno plot from you has a correction factor applied. I don't know what Martin has done to upset you here but all he has done is correct to standard atmospheric conditions e.g DIN or SAE. The greater the difference between standard conditions and your actual IAT the higher the correction - useful to some extent for keeping a track of actual power differences if you dyno in summer at ambient 30C and then winter -10C. Isn't this abuse of your trader status - who do you think you are helping with such blatant mis-information?
Every thread I have read about RR always ends up with hand bags at dawn or toys being thrown out of prams. I don't understand the 1st thing about RR or how they work but I do understand common sense. At least two stnd cars ran and got figures near to as manufacturer’s specs as you would reasonably expect, yet a Trader who is well known to know FA about FA spouts foul play remarks! To me the mods that each car ran with achieved figures that you would expect, maybe His Loud Mouth can explain what figures people should have expected using His Less Measured aproach, on the run down using an average of 20bhp what should have the people who have posted figures made using your calculations? Some say you have the measure of a man when he opens his mouth in your case it is when your fingers do the typing Ed well done on good results you have roughly the same type of mods I have, always fancied doing a dyno run just for fun.
I think this is getting a little heated...
So, I'm gonna contact the complaint department...
And if that don't work, I'm gonna hire this guy...
So, please, play nicely children!
[quote=st5ve;426512]Every thread I have read about RR always ends up with hand bags at dawn or toys being thrown out of prams. I don't understand the 1st thing about RR or how they work but I do understand common sense. At least two stnd cars ran and got figures near to as manufacturer’s specs as you would reasonably expect, yet a Trader who is well known to know FA about FA spouts foul play remarks! To me the mods that each car ran with achieved figures that you would expect, maybe His Loud Mouth can explain what figures people should have expected using His Less Measured aproach, on the run down using an average of 20bhp what should have the people who have posted figures made using your calculations? Some say you have the measure of a man when he opens his mouth in your case it is when your fingers do the typing Ed well done on good results you have roughly the same type of mods I have, always fancied doing a dyno run just for fun.[/quote] I don't get it either. In one breath, Steve, you say "I don't like all these arguementative stuff & I don't know what I am talking about" & in the next statement you're getting all personal making up new acronymns to vilify HLM. Just rant & have done with it
[quote=jardon;426508]Nice try Hamish. I have seen my IAT's that high on the road before WI - some folks get 70+ with the HLM hybrid. I have also seen you state "corrected to DIN" - my dyno plot from you has a correction factor applied. I don't know what Martin has done to upset you here but all he has done is correct to standard atmospheric conditions e.g DIN or SAE. The greater the difference between standard conditions and your actual IAT the higher the correction - useful to some extent for keeping a track of actual power differences if you dyno in summer at ambient 30C and then winter -10C. Isn't abuse of your trader status - who do you think you are helping with such blatant mis-information?[/quote] HUW, STOP STOP HUW. STOP TRYING TO MAKE OUT YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE YOU MAKE YOURSELF LOOK EVEN MORE FOOLISH. "CORRECTED TO STANDARD ATMOSPHERIC CONDITIONS". Intake Air Temp for the purpose of a correction factor should be measured at the Air INTAKE PRE turbo NOT POST Turbo as Milton Keynes is not in Death Valley, Nevada it is quite safe to assume that these temps where nothing close to 63 DegC as we should see a value that is very similar to Ambient. Normally you would expect the Corrected power to be ITRO +/- 2hp in the UK. UNLESS OF COURSE YOU CHEATING by inputing high values. HUW Stop being so condescending.
[quote=st5ve;426512]Every thread I have read about RR always ends up with hand bags at dawn or toys being thrown out of prams. I don't understand the 1st thing about RR or how they work but I do understand common sense. At least two stnd cars ran and got figures near to as manufacturer’s specs as you would reasonably expect, yet a Trader who is well known to know FA about FA spouts foul play remarks! To me the mods that each car ran with achieved figures that you would expect, maybe His Loud Mouth can explain what figures people should have expected using His Less Measured aproach, on the run down using an average of 20bhp what should have the people who have posted figures made using your calculations? Some say you have the measure of a man when he opens his mouth in your case it is when your fingers do the typing Ed well done on good results you have roughly the same type of mods I have, always fancied doing a dyno run just for fun.[/quote] Steve, I can see you have issues.
[quote=hamish;426523]HUW, STOP STOP HUW. STOP TRYING TO MAKE OUT YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE YOU MAKE YOURSELF LOOK EVEN MORE FOOLISH. "CORRECTED TO STANDARD ATMOSPHERIC CONDITIONS". Intake Air Temp for the purpose of a correction factor should be measured at the Air INTAKE PRE turbo NOT POST Turbo as Milton Keynes is not in Death Valley, Nevada it is quite safe to assume that these temps where nothing close to 63 DegC as we should see a value that is very similar to Ambient. Normally you would expect the Corrected power to be ITRO +/- 2hp in the UK. UNLESS OF COURSE YOU CHEATING by inputing high values. HUW Stop being so condescending.[/quote] Surely "air intake temperatures" are the temperature the car is taking the air in to the throttle body ... on mine, I know for a fact that my intake temps are taken from AFTER the turbo, as it is AFTER the intercooler too. I don't think any of the cars there this weekend, nor any of the graphs I've seen, have massively inflated intake temps like your Focus ST example. I may not be looking in the right place though. Surely if you're going to accuse Martin of cheating (Which, IMHO, is badmouthing his business, and an honest trustworthy trader such as yourself would never badmouth another company, would they?) you could show some current and valid proof? What would Marlin stand to gain from inflating figures? I still don't quite understand why you even bought that up ... I'm sorry Frankie, your car only made 120hp at the wheels because Hamish doesn't like the maths that Martins Dyno did.
[quote=Villan;426533]Surely "air intake temperatures" are the temperature the car is taking the air in to the throttle body ... on mine, I know for a fact that my intake temps are taken from AFTER the turbo, as it is AFTER the intercooler too. I don't think any of the cars there this weekend, nor any of the graphs I've seen, have massively inflated intake temps like your Focus ST example. I may not be looking in the right place though. Surely if you're going to accuse Martin of cheating (Which, IMHO, is badmouthing his business, and an honest trustworthy trader such as yourself would never badmouth another company, would they?) you could show some current and valid proof? What would Marlin stand to gain from inflating figures? I still don't quite understand why you even bought that up ... I'm sorry Frankie, your car only made 120hp at the wheels because Hamish doesn't like the maths that Martins Dyno did.[/quote] just double checked my dyno figures and my fly power was 298.1 and at the wheels was 197.8 so ive lost 33% of my power have i? rubbish, last year it made 253bhp at the wheels with an 18t
Surely these Dyno Days are more a bit of fun? A benchmark, if you like. Or to put it crudely, a who's got the biggest knob competition. To get a TRUE reading of engine power, surely it would be a case of removing the engine (and possibly gearbox), mounting on a jig, connecting it to a calibrated dyno unit and running several tests under different conditions.
If we're trying to calculate the difference 20mm of tyre rubber makes, are we calculating it to include the compound of the rubber as well? and the vast array of environmental and mechanical variables too?
This thread has gone from a nice little "who's got what" to yet another catfight and you've left me with no alternative but to bring out my picture of Anne Widdecombe!
There, look what you made me do. Happy now?
[quote=t5frankie;426542]just double checked my dyno figures and my fly power was 298.1 and at the wheels was 197.8 so ive lost 33% of my power have i? rubbish, last year it made 253bhp at the wheels with an 18t[/quote] If that's on the fifth gear run it will be because of the measured drag loss. Your running on twin rollers which make two contact points, therefore more friction, and you wheels were spinning at a higher speed exponentially increasing the loss due to friction.
[quote=martinrpeachey;426543]Surely these Dyno Days are more a bit of fun? A benchmark, if you like. Or to put it crudely, a who's got the biggest knob competition. To get a TRUE reading of engine power, surely it would be a case of removing the engine (and possibly gearbox), mounting on a jig, connecting it to a calibrated dyno unit and running several tests under different conditions.
If we're trying to calculate the difference 20mm of tyre rubber makes, are we calculating it to include the compound of the rubber as well? and the vast array of environmental and mechanical variables too?
This thread has gone from a nice little "who's got what" to yet another catfight and you've left me with no alternative but to bring out my picture of Anne Widdecombe!
There, look what you made me do. Happy now?[/quote]
She is a fox!
Quite indeed. They are a bit of fun and thats the only reason I ran my S60R. Everything is working as it should so I'm happy.
On the dyno it makes 343hp and 471nM torque, stock head and stock turbo.
I can tell you it shifts and anyone who drives it will tell you the same including the RS4 Avant driver who looked rather upset a while back.
Good enough for me.
[quote=GazT4R;426545]If that's on the fifth gear run it will be because of the measured drag loss. Your running on twin rollers which make two contact points, therefore more friction, and you wheels were spinning at a higher speed exponentially increasing the loss due to friction.[/quote] my car is 2wd mate
[quote=t5frankie;426547]my car is 2wd mate[/quote] think he meant the dyno having 2 rollers per wheel
[quote=p fandango;426550]think he meant the dyno having 2 rollers per wheel[/quote] I did. Maha dynos have two rollers per wheel.
[quote]
Originally Posted by hamish 
[I]Oh dear Huw,
Your expert is making 2 school boy errors :
1) Always use the most direct gear which is nearly always 4th.
2) Don't select neutral when measuring the drag losses.
So Maha's wheel power figure isn't really wheel power it is a sufficiently deflated figure that when added to the excessively high drag loss figure caused by the double tyre deflection on the twin roller gives something close to a manufacturers on standard cars.[/I]
[QUOTE=jardon;426351]Agree to disagree on the first 2 points. I think in a roundabout way you've grasped how a Maha works.[/quote]
[/QUOTE]
In the same way you cannot measure clutch power on an automatic, surely if you use neutral - & the dog teeth are disengaged then surely all that will spin is the diff and maybe parts of the output shaft.
Certainly the parts that would contribute to drag in the gearbox will be different to when it was left in gear.
I am certain it takes some skill and accuracy to get the clutch down to avoid engine braking too.
And lastly common sense would surely dictate that these drag losses are at the very least questionable. I mean to find losses equivalent to that of the power of a decent hatchback - could that not at least raise eyebrows/alarm bells?
I would like to hear from Marlin about the intake temp thing - and clear things up - as it stands it sounds like the value that is input to the software (not measured). However until this is clear I think this will only lead to more confusion.
From my experience I have only used 2 dynos. I have never seen drag losses higher than ~25 bhp.
The main reason for not using more dynos is for baseline comparitive reasons.
[quote=Wobbly Dave;426556]In the same way you cannot measure clutch power on an automatic, surely if you use neutral - & the dog teeth are disengaged then surely all that will spin is the diff and maybe parts of the output shaft. Certainly the parts that would contribute to drag in the gearbox will be different to when it was left in gear. I am certain it takes some skill and accuracy to get the clutch down to avoid engine braking too. And lastly common sense would surely dictate that these drag losses are at the very least questionable. I mean to find losses equivalent to that of the power of a decent hatchback - could that not at least raise eyebrows/alarm bells? I would like to hear from Marlin about the intake temp thing - and clear things up - as it stands it sounds like the value that is input to the software (not measured). However until this is clear I think this will only lead to more confusion. From my experience I have only used 2 dynos. I have never seen drag losses higher than ~25 bhp. The main reason for not using more dynos is for baseline comparitive reasons.[/quote] my intake temp was 21 degrees
Earlier cars are not measured but just use ambient temperature iirc. (I don't run an earlier car so someone else will have to post a dyno sheet to see). Cars such as my S60R are a measured intake temperature along with timing and Lamda etc. through the OBDII port. Drag losses are not static and increase with speed, most of them being due to the friction created by the tyres rather than the actual gearbox. Higher the gear the higher the wheel speed and drag loss. Clutch is disengaged immeadiately at the top of the run and a measured run down is used.
ive used 3 different dynos 1 said 350 bhp,hlm said 294 bhp and the other one my car was overfueling on rev;it solihull and it made 260 bhp at 4 k rpm.i will use hlm so it gives me a good idea what my mods and increase in power is doing.what counts is what the car does on the road or track or strip.
Couldn't agree more Smithy. It's only a bit of fun, on the track is where it's at :)
[quote=hamish;426427]Greg, It does show Drag Loss. You will see Power & Torque on the main graph. That is what you probably refer to as Wheel Power and Torque. The next graph shows Clutch Power or what some people call Flywheel power. At the end of the run the dyno operator dips the clutch and lets the car decelerate back down to say 75mph. Now we know the Mass of the Drum (Roller) we know the Diameter of the Drum ( Roller) and we know the time it takes to decelerate the Roller. So at any given road speed or RPM we have measured deceleration or Drag and we can apply this over the wheel power graph giving a very accurate Clutch power figure. You must also consider Dynojet's use a large diameter Roller giving the tyre an almost flat surface to sit on which replicates the road more closely. Easy as apple PIE using Pi 3.1416 ![/quote] Thanks Hamish So what do you recon my true RR figures should have been then? Do you think the Fly & Wheel power will be the same? regardless of the drag figure! After all I am running the Original HLM Hybrid turbo built by your bike mate! If your saying the figures are all wrong then what power do you think with your great knowledge of tuning and mechanics, Should I have made? My Mods are posted further back in this thread! And i am running just under 1.2 bar of boost What power would you expect it to make on your RR then?
Hamish and Nat - I apologise for hounding you through this thread. It is my understanding that the Marlin dyno is perhaps a more modern one than the older Maha you had - a good reason to upgrade to the Dynojet. To compare these Maha results with your Dynojet (and any other dyno) would not be productive as they are measuring things so differently - especially drag. That does not mean they cannot all have a stab at flywheel figures but we shouldn't even consider comparing wheel figures. I don't buy that the high drag is cheating but just a different method of calculating fly power. If you did not intend to mislead on this issue then I apologise. I'm out of my depth on the neutral/clutch in/IAT measurements - I apologise for whatever I posted at Hamish earlier on those issues as I may be mis-informed. I am absolutely not one for confrontation in real life but I appear to have slipped into forum nutter mode recently.
[quote=st5ve;426512]Every thread I have read about RR always ends up with hand bags at dawn or toys being thrown out of prams. I don't understand the 1st thing about RR or how they work but I do understand common sense. At least two stnd cars ran and got figures near to as manufacturer’s specs as you would reasonably expect, yet a Trader who is well known to know FA about FA spouts foul play remarks! To me the mods that each car ran with achieved figures that you would expect, maybe His Loud Mouth can explain what figures people should have expected using His Less Measured aproach, on the run down using an average of 20bhp what should have the people who have posted figures made using your calculations? Some say you have the measure of a man when he opens his mouth in your case it is when your fingers do the typing Ed well done on good results you have roughly the same type of mods I have, always fancied doing a dyno run just for fun.[/quote] You must of been given that speech from the mod's on t5d5 lol
[quote=Wobbly Dave;426519]I don't get it either. In one breath, Steve, you say "I don't like all these arguementative stuff & I don't know what I am talking about" & in the next statement you're getting all personal making up new acronymns to vilify HLM. Just rant & have done with it[/quote] You have quoted me saying "I don't like all these arguementative stuff & I don't know what I am talking about" That is incorrect I did not say or imply that, what I did imply was: There are a few big girls’ blouses on this thread who like swinging handbags and little boys who throw their toys, as a customer of tuning products and services for my Volvo cars I have enough common sense to know when a trader avoids answering direct questions or turn on the BS tap then they are best avoided. The 1st person who got personal was Hamish with His Limited Mindset accusing somebody of cheating, His Lord and Master is still to answer very basic questions put to him. Using his calculations, product knowledge what would he expect to see the members cars (who have posted a graph) realistically achieve? Beyond any reasonable doubt I have already ascertained that Heap Loud Mouth will carry on with BS and avoid direct questions with Heap Load of Manure. No rant there just statement of fact and casual observation
[quote=hamish;426531]Steve, I can see you have issues.[/quote] Ok I will discuss those issues the next time I speak to my therapist if it will make you happy.
[quote=st5ve;426633]You have quoted me saying "I don't like all these arguementative stuff & I don't know what I am talking about" That is incorrect I did not say or imply that, what I did imply was: There are a few big girls’ blouses on this thread who like swinging handbags and little boys who throw their toys, as a customer of tuning products and services for my Volvo cars I have enough common sense to know when a trader avoids answering direct questions or turn on the BS tap then they are best avoided. The 1st person who got personal was Hamish with His Limited Mindset accusing somebody of cheating, His Lord and Master is still to answer very basic questions put to him. Using his calculations, product knowledge what would he expect to see the members cars (who have posted a graph) realistically achieve? Beyond any reasonable doubt I have already ascertained that Heap Loud Mouth will carry on with BS and avoid direct questions with Heap Load of Manure. No rant there just statement of fact and casual observation[/quote] What childish nonsense !! You sound like a playground bully.
[quote=8501970;426618]You must of been given that speech from the mod's on t5d5 lol[/quote] No I have my own mind and it was all my own work. I am more active on VOC than T5D5 and VPCUK, I have not seen HLM on VOC or T5D5 for a long time not sure why, I am sure their must be a perfectly good reason for that?
[quote=Nathlm;426648]What childish nonsense !! You sound like a playground bully.[/quote] Well I am in the correct location! meet you behind the bike shed after 4 then :haha:
[quote=st5ve;426652]No I have my own mind and it was all my own work. I am more active on VOC than T5D5 and VPCUK, I have not seen HLM on VOC or T5D5 for a long time not sure why, I am sure their must be a perfectly good reason for that?[/quote] We chose not to join the t5d5 although they did ask us! Hamish was banned from the VOC because he wouldn't give out any indepth information on the turbo he developed. Although we are highly recommended on the VOC by members, just do a search and the majority of posts are praise for the work we have done.
[quote=st5ve;426657]Well I am in the correct location! meet you behind the bike shed after 4 then :haha:[/quote] you have got to be kidding my husband is more of a man then you are!!! I pity any woman meeting you behind the bike sheds. I would put you down as a 'kiss and tell' type of bloke
[quote=Nathlm;426659]you have got to be kidding my husband is more of a man then you are!!! I pity any woman meeting you behind the bike sheds. I would put you down as a 'kiss and tell' type of bloke[/quote] I have heard He Likes Men so on second thoughts I may avoid the bike sheds. I think you may have opened a can of worms re VOC and T5D5 are you sure you really want to go there
[quote=Nathlm;426658]We chose not to join the t5d5 although they did ask us! Hamish was banned from the VOC because he wouldn't give out any indepth information on the turbo he developed. Although we are highly recommended on the VOC by members, just do a search and the majority of posts are praise for the work we have done.[/quote] Are you sure you didn't get banned for another reason? Why would a forum ban someone for not telling about a turbo? Thats not how the real world works. As for "highly Recomended" well ... Uhm. I've never seen that! Bear in mind I'm a regular on VOC, I've NEVER seen ANY posts by yourself, hamish, or anyone saying "Go to HLM, they're GREEEEAAAT!!" Never. I've seen "moderately indifferent" postings though.
[quote=GregE102;426582]Thanks Hamish So what do you recon my true RR figures should have been then? Do you think the Fly & Wheel power will be the same? regardless of the drag figure! After all I am running the Original HLM Hybrid turbo built by your bike mate! If your saying the figures are all wrong then what power do you think with your great knowledge of tuning and mechanics, Should I have made? My Mods are posted further back in this thread! And i am running just under 1.2 bar of boost What power would you expect it to make on your RR then?[/quote] Gregg, I think you are getting carried away here. I was never debating the power of your car. I wasn't trying to get into a "my dyno is better than your dyno" and I am well aware that the Maha dyno gives very different readings to some other dynos. But if you give people drag losses of 143hp from any dyno you are cheating end of. Unless of course the gearbox has run out of oil and siezed ! I thought you had Chris Greenfield's turbo ? If so that was Designed and Built by Turbo Dynamics not Dave (fastest man in Europe on a Street Bike) Smith. And I know exactly how must power that turbo should make on a T5. What power will it make on my dyno ? It will make whatever it makes!!
[quote=Nathlm;426658]We chose not to join the t5d5 although they did ask us! Hamish was banned from the VOC because he wouldn't give out any indepth information on the turbo he developed. Although we are highly recommended on the VOC by members, just do a search and the majority of posts are praise for the work we have done.[/quote] You are not highly recommended on VOC or T5D5 and that was not the reason for the ban. You are only recommended on one UK Volvo forum and even that is open to debate
[quote=Villan;426670]Are you sure you didn't get banned for another reason? Why would a forum ban someone for not telling about a turbo? Thats not how the real world works. As for "highly Recomended" well ... Uhm. I've never seen that! Bear in mind I'm a regular on VOC, I've NEVER seen ANY posts by yourself, hamish, or anyone saying "Go to HLM, they're GREEEEAAAT!!" Never. I've seen "moderately indifferent" postings though.[/quote] Im perfectly sure thanks very much Well I suggest you go and do a search on the VOC there are lots of recommendations here's one http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?p=1006038&highlight=hlm#post1006038 opps here is another one http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?p=1003654&highlight=hlm#post1003654 oh and blow me down heres another one http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?p=981973&highlight=hlm#post981973 and there are many more and you will find the only bad press is by Don and other t5d5 members (most haven't steped foot in our workshop)
[quote=st5ve;426666]I have heard He Likes Men so on second thoughts I may avoid the bike sheds. [/quote] You are disgusting with absolutely no class at all - quite frankly I will not respond to any more comments from you.
This thread is spiraling out of control... don't make me get Anne Widdecombe out again! Really though, this is not what any of us joined VPCUK for. MODS!
[quote=Nathlm;426684]You are disgusting with absolutely no class at all - quite frankly I will not respond to any more comments from you.[/quote] No Class! I am not the one married to He Likes Men:confused:
[quote=martinrpeachey;426691]This thread is spiraling out of control... don't make me get Anne Widdecombe out again! Really though, this is not what any of us joined VPCUK for. MODS![/quote] I know. Lots of little bits of info and i had many questions but, alas, i can't remember any of it anymore! lol
This thread is called "Dyno day at marlin motors in milton keynes" Not have a go at people over what was originally a bit of a larf at Milton Keynes. Nat, you won't gain any support by thanking my complaint first, st5ve, you won't gain any friends by casting aspersions on somebody's sexuality. This has been at least 10 pages of mudslinging and bullsh1t. give it a rest you lot, FFS.
[quote=st5ve;426693]No Class! I am not the one married to He Likes Men:confused:[/quote] Bloody hell, i know your just thinking of words that go with hlm, but come on, you sound like a teenager that can't think up anything better to say.
Yesterday this thread was bordering on slightly heated but controlled now some of the comments on this thread are absolutely appauling to the point where offence can easily be taken, the tags at the bottom are also just as bad. Can we please refrain from childish personal insults and mods can we get this thread cleaned up? Please?
[quote=martinrpeachey;426700]This thread is called "Dyno day at marlin motors in milton keynes" Not have a go at people over what was originally a bit of a larf at Milton Keynes. Nat, you won't gain any support by thanking my complaint first, st5ve, you won't gain any friends by casting aspersions on somebody's sexuality. This has been at least 10 pages of mudslinging and bullsh1t. give it a rest you lot, FFS.[/quote] I wasn't after support - I can hold my own thank you !!!! I just agreed with you.
Well said Andy. No offence to the mods but I would have thought they'd have stepped in earlier. I would have. This forum shouldn't be used as an excuse to be childish. I suggest everybody involved should go back through the thread, read what you've said and ask yourself "is this right"? Fair enough Nat, no offence intended, I was just getting my point across.
Ok folks... time to end the show the curtains are now drawn. Time to take a stance, some may say harsh others may agree however you look at it the decision has been made. Member st5ve has been banned for breaching forum policy. [quote]We take the "be polite" rule very seriously! We do not tolerate any rudeness. Any member who is intentionally unpleasant or disruptive will receive one warning (at our discretion). And if the member offends again the member will be banned without warning. [/quote] Be warned... intensional abuse wont be tolerated. Those who want to make a legitimate point can do so, however if you are simply here to slag each other off I suggest you go elsewhere.