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    Water leak rear of engine T5

    Hi All,

    I've got a water leak at the back of engine.

    When the engine is shut off when hot, a hiss is audible from the rear of engine. Water is dripping from bottom of exhaust manifold, but does not appear to be running down back of engine. Looking up I can see coolant marks on the bottom of the head overhang, but on the exhaust manifold side, not the head-gaskett side.

    There is no mixing of oil & coolant, and the engine is running really well (no smoke / steam in exhaust or any other bad signs).

    The lack of water on the back of the block makes me think the leak is above the head gasket. The metal water line to the turbo appears to be intact. Therefore the only thing this could be is a cracked head I'm thinking.

    Is it worth trying out some coolant additive to eak this out a bit?

    Thanks in advance for any advice / opinions.

    Cheers

    Chris

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    There is a connection on the back of the head to the top right the manifold, it comes off the main water pipe. This is really sneaky as it sits right in the corner underneath the bit that sticks out for the cams and has a paper gasket which is difficult to position when replacing due to its position down the back of the engine

    Also check where the main water pipe goes into the back of the waterpump with a seal which may have degraded. Or even the main water pipe itself may have corroded and sprung a leak.

    This is the pipe in silver, top right is where it connects to the head



    Otherwise check the rubber hoses that connect to the metal lines from the turbo, one at the back of the engine by the timing cover (above manifold), and one under the turbo (which connects back the the main water pipe). I had the one under the turbo split on my 850 some years ago (arrived home at 1am and heard water hissing out, needed the car for work the next morning so repaired it there and then).
    Last edited by Dangerous Dave; Saturday 25th April 2020 at 19:55.
    1996 Olive Green 850 AWD - Follow the Project - Forged rods, 19T, big blue injectors, 960 TB, 3.25" MAF, Ostrich, 608 binary, arduino data display, active exhaust control with Focus RS tips, 320mm front brake conversion.
    1996 Nautic Blue 850 AWD - Failed its MOT, now it's a donor for the green thing.

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    Hi Dave,

    Thanks for the picture.

    Here's some photos:

    Name:  IMG_20200426_104131.jpg
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    Name:  IMG_20200426_104113.jpg
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Size:  1.55 MB

    I'm fairly sure we can exclude the turbo water pipes as they are visibly intact. Also the top right (on photo) connection to cylinder head seems to be OK. Therefore, I guess it must either be the main metal coolant pipe spraying upwards, or a cracked head (possibly cylinder head gasket).

    A few of questions
    1. Is it even possible to replace the metal pipe without removing the engine?
    2. What options are there to repair cracked head?
    3. Is something like this worth a shot? https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/holts...00ml-550770330

    Thanks again for you help.

    Cheers

    Chris
    Last edited by TenaciousC; Sunday 26th April 2020 at 10:56.

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    Hi Chris, from the looks of it the main pipe has got a pinhole (going on the rust covering it and considering there is no water on the block and elsewhere).

    1) It should be possible to remove that pipe though access to that bolt under the manifold will be difficult and you would have to remove that bracket that bolts to the manifold and block. You would then need to rotate the pipe so the top right connection comes away from the head and clears the manifold so you can then pull it out of the water pump (goes in something like 40mm). But then it may foul on the bulkhead.

    2) Best get another head (but make certain that is the issue), that way you can recon the new head (cleaned, skimmed, tested, new stem seals, etc) and swap them straight over.

    3) Never use that stuff, it will clog the rest of the system up (all those little channels through the engine, radiator and heater matrix)
    1996 Olive Green 850 AWD - Follow the Project - Forged rods, 19T, big blue injectors, 960 TB, 3.25" MAF, Ostrich, 608 binary, arduino data display, active exhaust control with Focus RS tips, 320mm front brake conversion.
    1996 Nautic Blue 850 AWD - Failed its MOT, now it's a donor for the green thing.

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    Thanks Dave

    Would it be reasonable to say, that having cleaned coolant off the bottom of the manifold, if it reappears there again without the engine running, the source can not be the metal coolant pipe (as that would take heat and pressure to spray upwards) ?

    Any idea where I might look for a new head? I guess they're not as ubiquitous as they used to be?

    Cheers

    Chris

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    It's worth a try, does it leak when not run for a while too?

    eBay or Volvo forums for a head, any 20 valve turbo head up to 1999 (or whichever year the inlet manifold was changed) should fit as AFAIK they are all the same but just check to make sure.
    1996 Olive Green 850 AWD - Follow the Project - Forged rods, 19T, big blue injectors, 960 TB, 3.25" MAF, Ostrich, 608 binary, arduino data display, active exhaust control with Focus RS tips, 320mm front brake conversion.
    1996 Nautic Blue 850 AWD - Failed its MOT, now it's a donor for the green thing.

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    Chris,

    Not meaning to tread on Dave's toes, as he has given you sound advice, but before you go buying a new cylinder head it's best to try and confirm what it is that's leaking.
    Do you have access to a 'Cooling system pressure tester'?

    ...If the answer to that is 'No', then do you have Breakdown cover with the AA?

    All patrols carry a CSPT kit and would be able to pressurize your cooling system up to a safe maximum of 15 psi without the need to run the engine (which would create heat, making it more difficult to see the leak).

    Like Dave said, it looks like the metal pipe is porous and that pipe is a real PITA to remove.

    It is very unlikely the head has a crack on the outside. Stress cracks, caused by heat, are normally internal not external.

    2004 V70R 6spd manual:: Custom JRtuning REMAP @ peak 21psi :: Custom 2.75" exhaust :: TTV SMF + 07 Clutch :: WG 5.0 psi :: Tints :: IPD R gauge Rev.3 :: CFWerks door pod :: Forge CBV + yellow spring :: Windowed stock housing + blue filter :: Powerflex :: Superpro Engine mount :: Brembo Dot 5.1 :: TW FMIC :: Eibach 5mm spacers :: Brembo 330mm drilled discs :: iMiV 'Classic'+ BT :: D2R XENARC 5500k + LED H7 + LED H3 :: VolvoTech CFE OBD-V1 :: See garage for full mod list

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    Indeed, I should have mentioned that.
    1996 Olive Green 850 AWD - Follow the Project - Forged rods, 19T, big blue injectors, 960 TB, 3.25" MAF, Ostrich, 608 binary, arduino data display, active exhaust control with Focus RS tips, 320mm front brake conversion.
    1996 Nautic Blue 850 AWD - Failed its MOT, now it's a donor for the green thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerous Dave View Post
    It's worth a try, does it leak when not run for a while too?
    Actually there is no leak when cold and not run.

    I might try wrapping the metal coolant pipe in foil and seeing if coolant appears on the bottom of the manifold (when run). If it doesn't, then it must be the pipe :-).

    C

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    Yup, that would certainly narrow it down
    1996 Olive Green 850 AWD - Follow the Project - Forged rods, 19T, big blue injectors, 960 TB, 3.25" MAF, Ostrich, 608 binary, arduino data display, active exhaust control with Focus RS tips, 320mm front brake conversion.
    1996 Nautic Blue 850 AWD - Failed its MOT, now it's a donor for the green thing.

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    If I peer up I can just see coolant beading on what looks to be the cylinder head. Centre of this picture. That was after nunging some foil around the pipe (which I removed for the photo) Name:  IMG_20200428_121910.jpg
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    Last edited by TenaciousC; Tuesday 28th April 2020 at 12:38.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeT5 View Post
    Chris,

    Not meaning to tread on Dave's toes, as he has given you sound advice, but before you go buying a new cylinder head it's best to try and confirm what it is that's leaking.
    Do you have access to a 'Cooling system pressure tester'?

    ...If the answer to that is 'No', then do you have Breakdown cover with the AA?

    All patrols carry a CSPT kit and would be able to pressurize your cooling system up to a safe maximum of 15 psi without the need to run the engine (which would create heat, making it more difficult to see the leak).

    Like Dave said, it looks like the metal pipe is porous and that pipe is a real PITA to remove.

    It is very unlikely the head has a crack on the outside. Stress cracks, caused by heat, are normally internal not external.
    Hi Lee,

    Thanks for your input.

    No I don't have a CSPT, but do have AA membership (just not homestart) . Interesting point about the heads not fracturing externally.

    It might be pertinent to mention other work that has been done on the car in the last few months in case this has a bearing.

    1. September - Tightened exhaust manifold bolts as some were loose.
    2. Jan - Replaced thermostat as old one had failed open and engine was not heating up. I chose the hotter of the two options 90C (as opposed to 87C)

    Just a thought, but could the cooling system be over pressurizing?

    Cheers

    Chris
    Last edited by TenaciousC; Tuesday 28th April 2020 at 13:04.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TenaciousC View Post
    Hi Lee,

    Thanks for your input.

    No I don't have a CSPT, but do have AA membership (just not homestart) . Interesting point about the heads not fracturing externally.

    It might be pertinent to mention other work that has been done on the car in the last few months in case this has a bearing.

    1. September - Tightened exhaust manifold bolts as some were loose.
    2. Jan - Replaced thermostat as old one had failed open and engine was not heating up. I chose the hotter of the two options 90C (as opposed to 87C)

    Just a thought, but could the cooling system be over pressurizing?

    Cheers

    Chris
    Mmmm, not sure I would have chose the hotter opening stat.

    You'll never know that without a CSPT kit. Removing the Header tank cap once hot is not an option, as this is both dangerous and counter productive. It won't prove anything and you'll lose coolant in the process (as well as risk scalding yourself).

    Only way to confirm 100% is by carrying out both a CSPT when cold then monitoring the tester whilst carrying out a system function test.
    Then you'll need a Sniffer tester to confirm HG integrity.

    2004 V70R 6spd manual:: Custom JRtuning REMAP @ peak 21psi :: Custom 2.75" exhaust :: TTV SMF + 07 Clutch :: WG 5.0 psi :: Tints :: IPD R gauge Rev.3 :: CFWerks door pod :: Forge CBV + yellow spring :: Windowed stock housing + blue filter :: Powerflex :: Superpro Engine mount :: Brembo Dot 5.1 :: TW FMIC :: Eibach 5mm spacers :: Brembo 330mm drilled discs :: iMiV 'Classic'+ BT :: D2R XENARC 5500k + LED H7 + LED H3 :: VolvoTech CFE OBD-V1 :: See garage for full mod list

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