Join Today
Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    This user has no status

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    29
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts

    Tuned 850 T5 - Split liner or HG?

    Morning all, after getting the 850 T5 to where I wanted it last year it has been quietly working away for me for the last 12 months or so without any complaint. It currently rungs a 16T, downpipe, map etc.

    In the last couple of weeks however I have noted that the coolant level has become extremely unstable, when cold it can all but disappear from the tank and when driven hard it fills the tank to the brim, I suggest very close to blowing! Gentle driving does also get some expansion, but only within normal bounds. It's using a small amount but nothing excessive, it seems more like the system is being pressurised based on how hard the car is driven.

    If the system is pressurised to the brim of the tank and I switch the engine off it immediately begins to drain with a gurgling sound and the tank returns to normal levels, this will also happen if I crack the tank cap when the car is hot.

    Last year I replaced the water pump and thermostat as part of a overall service and of course replaced the coolant. I did the coolant again on Friday paying extra attention to bleeding and ensuring the thermostat was opening correctly (which it was).

    I guess at this point I am looking at either a failing HG or even worse a split liner. Can anyone suggest some diagnostic methods to determine this either way?

  2. #2
    Whiny Old Git
    Aching bones :(
    claymore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Shrewsbury
    Posts
    9,045
    Thanks
    4,340
    Thanked 4,980 Times in 3,002 Posts
    850 2.3 is very unlikely to split a liner, I'd guess HG
    PIC][/SIGPIC]
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaa

    Facebook^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Old T-5 Kompressor Thread^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ New TT-10 Kompressor Thread

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Enjoying owning a P2....never
    thought I'd ever say that!!
    Shinsplintz 101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Baldock, Hertfordshire
    Posts
    781
    Thanks
    353
    Thanked 415 Times in 269 Posts
    +1 with Colin

    What about oil in coolant & visa-versa? You don't mention it. I'd not be driving that car until you've figured out what's amis.

    Sniff test will tell you if the HG had gone.

    Also found this thread that may help (or not):

    http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/showthre...il-and-Trouble

    Cheers, Morgan
    Last edited by Shinsplintz 101; Monday 27th March 2017 at 16:02.

  4. #4
    Trader
    This user has no status

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    coalville
    Posts
    451
    Thanks
    68
    Thanked 295 Times in 174 Posts
    You won't split a liner with an 81mm block with standard rods, as already said it's most likely the head gasket. Get the head skimmed and also change the coolant cap.

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    This user has no status

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    29
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinsplintz 101 View Post

    What about oil in coolant & visa-versa? You don't mention it. I'd not be driving that car until you've figured out what's amis.
    No sign of either, both look nice and clean (although as mentioned I did change the coolant a few days ago - but I have done a couple of hundred miles since then.)

    Thanks for the input otherwise gents.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    This user has no status
    Mental Wealth Doctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    372
    Thanks
    32
    Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
    Make sure you've got the right coolant in her. Head gasket symptoms can be caused by the wrong coolant. Also as stated already try changing the coolant cap. Before doing the head obviously. Hope it's not the head mate

  7. #7
    Junior Member
    This user has no status

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    29
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Mental Wealth Doctor View Post
    Make sure you've got the right coolant in her. Head gasket symptoms can be caused by the wrong coolant. Also as stated already try changing the coolant cap. Before doing the head obviously. Hope it's not the head mate
    Thanks for the comment. I have done some further investigation and found that there is a tiny split in the tank so I'm going to replace that and the cap at the same time. With regard to coolant I wish I could find a definitive answer on what type the car takes, even the Volvo dealer couldn't tell me - I have currently used the blue silicate type from Halfrauds?

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Enjoying owning a P2....never
    thought I'd ever say that!!
    Shinsplintz 101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Baldock, Hertfordshire
    Posts
    781
    Thanks
    353
    Thanked 415 Times in 269 Posts
    .... from the Volvo workshop manual....

    LUBRICATION SPECIFICATIONS TABLE
    Application Fluid Specifications
    Coolant ............................. 50/50 Mix Ethylene Glycol
    and Distilled Water
    Brake Fluid ....................... DOT 4 Or DOT 4+ Brake Fluid
    Engine Oil
    Ambient Temperature
    Less Than 68 F (20 C) .................. SAE 5W-30 API SH/CD -4 F To 100 F (-20 To 38 C) .......... SAE 10W-30 API SH/CD Greater Than 14 F (-10 C) ............. SAE 15W-40 API SH/CD
    Power Steering Fluid (1) ............. Dexron-IIE or Mercon ATF
    Automatic Transaxle (AW50-42) ............ Dexron-IIE or Mercon
    Manual Transmission (2) ......... Volvo Synthetic (P/N 1161423)
    Or Type F/G ATF Wheel Bearings .................... NLGI Grade 2 Category GC-LB Steering Linkage (3)(4) ........... NLGI Grade 2 Category GC-LB Ball Joints (3)(5) ................ NLGI Grade 2 Category GC-LB Weatherstrip ....................... Dielectric Silicone Grease
    (1) - At temperatures below -4 F (-20 C) Volvo oil (P/N1161001-1) can be used.
    (2) - DO NOT use Dexron fluid in manual transmissions.
    (3) - Use low pressure grease gun to prevent seal damage.
    (4) - Fill until lubricant squeezes out from the base of seals.
    (5) - Fill ball joint until seal starts to swell.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    I've no idea what halfords put in their own brand coolant...But it looks ok!?!? Suitable for pre 98 cars. Think the trick is not to put an OAT based coolant in the older cars as it has the potential to eat the internals. Silicate based IATs like the one you've gone for are preferable. Allegedly. Christ, I thought engine oil could be a mine field
    Last edited by Shinsplintz 101; Tuesday 28th March 2017 at 22:32.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    The daRk knight
    LeeT5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    4,880
    Thanks
    935
    Thanked 1,248 Times in 954 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Williams View Post
    You won't split a liner with an 81mm block with standard rods, as already said it's most likely the head gasket. Get the head skimmed and also change the coolant cap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mental Wealth Doctor View Post
    Make sure you've got the right coolant in her. Head gasket symptoms can be caused by the wrong coolant. Also as stated already try changing the coolant cap. Before doing the head obviously. Hope it's not the head mate
    What they both said! If the cap is leaking (ie, not holding pressure) then the system cannot pressurise, so the coolant will just expand with heat and then fill the expansion tank too much and leak out. Then when its cold, it will almost disappear because your losing a slight amount of fluid each time it gets very hot.
    The split tank will cause identical symptoms to a leaking cap, so change them both!!!

    If, after replacing the tank and cap, your still losing fluid and the level rises too much (ie, same symptoms, then it's most likely your HG leaking)

    You will not be able to perform a Cooling system pressure test or Sniffer test properly until you've replaced the split header tank, so change these first.

    Quote Originally Posted by pingpong View Post
    Thanks for the comment. I have done some further investigation and found that there is a tiny split in the tank so I'm going to replace that and the cap at the same time. With regard to coolant I wish I could find a definitive answer on what type the car takes, even the Volvo dealer couldn't tell me - I have currently used the blue silicate type from Halfrauds?
    The Volvo fluid is 'Pentosin' and is a blue colour. i'd advise you use the correct fluid as using incorrect fluid can have a detrimental affect on the engines internals long term and more importanatly, it can affect running temps.

    Just buy it from Volvo! You don't need much and it's not that expensive.

    2004 V70R 6spd manual:: Custom JRtuning REMAP @ peak 21psi :: Custom 2.75" exhaust :: TTV SMF + 07 Clutch :: WG 5.0 psi :: Tints :: IPD R gauge Rev.3 :: CFWerks door pod :: Forge CBV + yellow spring :: Windowed stock housing + blue filter :: Powerflex :: Superpro Engine mount :: Brembo Dot 5.1 :: TW FMIC :: Eibach 5mm spacers :: Brembo 330mm drilled discs :: iMiV 'Classic'+ BT :: D2R XENARC 5500k + LED H7 + LED H3 :: VolvoTech CFE OBD-V1 :: See garage for full mod list

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to LeeT5 For This Useful Post:

    pingpong (Thursday 30th March 2017)

  11. #10
    Junior Member
    This user has no status

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    29
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts
    Thanks for the comments guys, I will let you know the outcome.

  12. #11
    Senior Member
    Enjoying owning a P2....never
    thought I'd ever say that!!
    Shinsplintz 101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Baldock, Hertfordshire
    Posts
    781
    Thanks
    353
    Thanked 415 Times in 269 Posts
    http://www.pentosin.net/f_antifreeze.asp

    Pentafrost NF.

    Can't find a UK supplier. But the Volvo branded stuff can be had for 10/L or less so it's probably not worth shopping about.
    Last edited by Shinsplintz 101; Thursday 30th March 2017 at 20:23.

  13. #12
    Junior Member
    This user has no status

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    29
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts
    So just to follow this up, changed the tank, cap, thermostat and coolant and no improvement sadly. Its clear to me now that if driven gently the coolant level stays normal, once you start boosting about the level rises dramatically which would correlate with increased cylinder pressures = leaking HG or cracked head.

    I've got a head being cleaned up as we speak to next stop HG change. Will do stem seals and valve seats whilst I am there. All needs to be ready for LM24 in a few weeks time!

  14. #13
    Junior Member
    This user has no status

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    29
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts
    So I had a head cleaned up and skimmed and I then fitted it to the car along with a new HG. Also replaced the two large coolant lines, coolant tank + cap, thermostat, gaskets, coolant etc - all Volvo original parts and...... its still got the issue!

    Name:  IMG_8197_zpsnikhapgc.jpg
Views: 0
Size:  158.8 KB

    Name:  IMG_8213_zpsb35uz47d.jpg
Views: 0
Size:  168.8 KB

    Name:  IMG_8216_zpsb0mzfs4w.jpg
Views: 0
Size:  182.6 KB

    I took great care cleaning the block to ensure a good seat for the HG, as well as cleaning all the coolant deposits from the various coolant line fittings. I also carefully inspected each cylinder and there was no evidence of cracking etc. Compression test all ok.

    So... what am I looking at now - heater matrix? Radiator? Water pump? Any ideas because I'm stumped!
    Last edited by pingpong; Thursday 22nd June 2017 at 10:01.

  15. #14
    Senior Member
    The daRk knight
    LeeT5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    4,880
    Thanks
    935
    Thanked 1,248 Times in 954 Posts
    It may help if you explain the symptoms. Have they changed or have they stayed the same?

    Now the engine is reassembled, all you can do is retest everything.
    So, Coolant sniffer test and Cooling system pressure test.

    Both need to done to rule out combustion gases in coolant and excess pressure caused by a leaking head.
    Use a thermo probe to ascertain whether the thermostat is opening correctly and then, that the Radiator fans come on.
    Ensure Aircon is off when testing.
    Last edited by LeeT5; Thursday 22nd June 2017 at 13:43.

    2004 V70R 6spd manual:: Custom JRtuning REMAP @ peak 21psi :: Custom 2.75" exhaust :: TTV SMF + 07 Clutch :: WG 5.0 psi :: Tints :: IPD R gauge Rev.3 :: CFWerks door pod :: Forge CBV + yellow spring :: Windowed stock housing + blue filter :: Powerflex :: Superpro Engine mount :: Brembo Dot 5.1 :: TW FMIC :: Eibach 5mm spacers :: Brembo 330mm drilled discs :: iMiV 'Classic'+ BT :: D2R XENARC 5500k + LED H7 + LED H3 :: VolvoTech CFE OBD-V1 :: See garage for full mod list

  16. #15
    Senior Member
    Enjoying owning a P2....never
    thought I'd ever say that!!
    Shinsplintz 101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Baldock, Hertfordshire
    Posts
    781
    Thanks
    353
    Thanked 415 Times in 269 Posts
    Have you checked the coolant lines to the back of the turbo? It's just you mentioned it only occurring on boost - perhaps there is an issue with the turbo or the coolant lines.

    https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/fo...ic.php?t=53962

    Have a quick read, might/might not prove useful!

    Cheers, Morgan
    Last edited by Shinsplintz 101; Thursday 22nd June 2017 at 20:07.

  17. #16
    Junior Member
    This user has no status

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    29
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts
    Thanks for the comments guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinsplintz 101 View Post
    Have you checked the coolant lines to the back of the turbo? It's just you mentioned it only occurring on boost - perhaps there is an issue with the turbo or the coolant lines.

    https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/fo...ic.php?t=53962

    Have a quick read, might/might not prove useful!

    Cheers, Morgan
    I was just reading exactly that thread! I've changed the turbo return pipe but not the supply pipe, although the previous owner had had it done in the past. I'll definitely get the car up in the air and have a good poke around tomorrow with this in mind.

    Symptoms wise if you drive it fairly calmly everything is fine, start using more erpms and the issue appears (coolant totally fills the tank and is purged by the cap). Starting to think this is erpm related (=water pump speed = pumping pressure) than boost pressure.

    I'm happy I've done the head regardless as it's stopped using a small amount of oil due to valve stem seals.

    Will report back.

  18. #17
    Senior Member
    855r 6sp lives
    Ettienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Waterlooville
    Posts
    4,516
    Thanks
    515
    Thanked 997 Times in 783 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pingpong View Post
    Thanks for the comments guys.



    I was just reading exactly that thread! I've changed the turbo return pipe but not the supply pipe, although the previous owner had had it done in the past. I'll definitely get the car up in the air and have a good poke around tomorrow with this in mind.

    Symptoms wise if you drive it fairly calmly everything is fine, start using more erpms and the issue appears (coolant totally fills the tank and is purged by the cap). Starting to think this is erpm related (=water pump speed = pumping pressure) than boost pressure.

    I'm happy I've done the head regardless as it's stopped using a small amount of oil due to valve stem seals.

    Will report back.
    Sounds a bit like waterpump, normal driving normal, driving fast would over heat as impeller was mishapened and inefficient.

    Is it a gen pump? Maybe a blocked rad? Correct head gasket?

  19. #18
    Senior Member
    The daRk knight
    LeeT5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    4,880
    Thanks
    935
    Thanked 1,248 Times in 954 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Ettienne View Post
    Sounds a bit like waterpump, normal driving normal, driving fast would over heat as impeller was mishapened and inefficient.

    Is it a gen pump? Maybe a blocked rad? Correct head gasket?
    Definately not! The car would overheat in minutes and boil itself over, even whilst gentle driving.

    2004 V70R 6spd manual:: Custom JRtuning REMAP @ peak 21psi :: Custom 2.75" exhaust :: TTV SMF + 07 Clutch :: WG 5.0 psi :: Tints :: IPD R gauge Rev.3 :: CFWerks door pod :: Forge CBV + yellow spring :: Windowed stock housing + blue filter :: Powerflex :: Superpro Engine mount :: Brembo Dot 5.1 :: TW FMIC :: Eibach 5mm spacers :: Brembo 330mm drilled discs :: iMiV 'Classic'+ BT :: D2R XENARC 5500k + LED H7 + LED H3 :: VolvoTech CFE OBD-V1 :: See garage for full mod list

  20. #19
    Senior Member
    855r 6sp lives
    Ettienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Waterlooville
    Posts
    4,516
    Thanks
    515
    Thanked 997 Times in 783 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeT5 View Post
    Definately not! The car would overheat in minutes and boil itself over, even whilst gentle driving.
    My s60r didn't, drove normal sat 45 minutes running for mot and drove home, when you boosted it it got hot.

    Cause mishapen impeller on the waterpump, it wasnt efficient at moving water and was a "Halfords special" I thought it may have been a plastic one that fell off but it was just a rubbish metal impeller

  21. #20
    Senior Member
    This user has no status

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    874
    Thanks
    135
    Thanked 348 Times in 268 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Ettienne View Post
    My s60r didn't, drove normal sat 45 minutes running for mot and drove home, when you boosted it it got hot.

    Cause mishapen impeller on the waterpump, it wasnt efficient at moving water and was a "Halfords special" I thought it may have been a plastic one that fell off but it was just a rubbish metal impeller

    Very true .......even if the water pump did hardly work the coolant still circulates due to the Thermo Siphon System (Effect) which all engines have built in.

    Which is so long as the thermostat is open the water will circulate from the top of the rad to the bottom etc. .....hot water rises cooler water sinks.

    If this type of system was not operational when turning off the engine the coolant would boil due to it not circulating.

    But when booting it ...a different matter as said.


    Mercedes C320CDI Sport Estate 3 litre V6 7 Gear Auto
    Remap 290bhp 628Nm torque @ 1600revs 45.1mpg


 

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
ipv6 ready