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    Engine rattle/vibration noises

    Hi guys
    Sorry for the long post but I was wondering if anyone could help me troubleshoot a noise.

    Basically when the engine is at low rpm but under some load (low to medium throttle seems to make the worse noise) I'm getting a mild metallic rattling style noise from the front. Can hear it in the car and quieter outside the car. Doesn't do it at idle or revved up in neutral. Seems to do it worst in 4th and 5th gear. It can't be heard at all in 1st and 2nd gear, bit more in 3rd but much more noticeable the rest.

    It almost sounds like it's coming from the left (transmission) side. My drivetrain is very clunky anyway when changing gear and engaging the clutch but the clutch and bearing are all new Volvo 850r and bites fine no juddering.
    Engine is newly rebuilt now done 700 miles (500 of which were very light then oil change and now some full throttle and higher rpm driving). All bearings are Volvo and sized as per the markings on the crank and block. Engine is bored to the size of the Pistons (83mm now as bores were worn) and new rings. New forged rods (max speeding) and big end bearings (Volvo). Top end has only had lightly ground valves and new stem seals. Only other thing not replaced were gudgeon pins but they seemed to fit in with a light thumb pressure.
    New timing belt kit, damper and water pump from Volvo.
    Timing is apparently 7% advanced according to the tuners laptop. Knock sensors are not being activated at any point. No problem codes. Stock tune. Running shell optimal fuel. Using 5w30 Castro Gtx oil currently with an aim to go to Fuchs 5w40 in another few hundred miles.
    Engine runs fine no large vibrations or harsh knocking noises, compression is 150 over all cylinders and uses no oil or water to note.
    Changed oil in transmission (Volvo own) but not replaced driveshafts.

    I wonder if this noise is actually from the transmission or turbo rather than the engine. Turbo is stock and not been reconditioned but seemed to be working ok however Wastegate was quite loose/wobbly when disconnected so could this be rattling as it begins to open or close? Seems to make the most noise at low rpm but when boost is about neutral beginning to build into low positive figures. More throttle worsens the noise slightly and full throttle if anything may quieten it.
    Iv tried to get a video of the sound but it is so hard to hear it's hardly worth listening for.

    I'm fairly sure the old engine (which wasn't rebuilt just removed) made a similar sound but can't be sure.

    Do they just make this noise??

    Thanks very much!

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    Best way I can describe it is that it sounds a bit like an older diesel when accelerating under load and you get that tapping rattling noise

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsi15 View Post
    Best way I can describe it is that it sounds a bit like an older diesel when accelerating under load and you get that tapping rattling noise
    As you have rebuilt the engine did you remove the Knock Sensors as they have to be reassembled to the correct low torque of 7nm i believe? ...and should also be in the same aspect on the engine as when you removed them otherwise they won`t detect the knock?

    Only maybe a chance as i had trouble with my knock sensors on one of my 740`s and it gave the same symptoms as yours no error codes also.......of course only a chance?
    Last edited by 960kg; Thursday 19th May 2016 at 12:52.


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    Thanks for your reply and a good question! I definitely labelled the front and rear sensors and located them as such and tried to 'point' them the right way if that makes sense. Torque wise not so sure. Iv tried to use Haynes torques as much as possible. If they were incorrectly fitted and not sending right would it throw a code??

    Have another friend who is pretty convinced it is gearbox related and have to say I'm on those lines too but who knows! Lol

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    Two things jumped out at me reading your post,

    83mm pistons and stock tune.

    The 8mm pistons will make it a 2.4 so is the stock tune for a 2.3 or a 2.4 ?

    If it's a 2.3 then you are running lean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dant5r View Post
    Two things jumped out at me reading your post,

    83mm pistons and stock tune.

    The 8mm pistons will make it a 2.4 so is the stock tune for a 2.3 or a 2.4 ?

    If it's a 2.3 then you are running lean.
    ^^^^
    Could have a very good point there.

    Does sound like detonation from what you're saying. Metallic rattle especially.

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    Excellent point guys. I'm not sure to what what extent the ecu can adapt. Would this not cause activation of the knock sensors though and be present in all gear during load etc? My plugs despite being new are already quite black if that means anything?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsi15 View Post
    Excellent point guys. I'm not sure to what what extent the ecu can adapt. Would this not cause activation of the knock sensors though and be present in all gear during load etc? My plugs despite being new are already quite black if that means anything?
    You mean...'Would the Knock sensors not detect knock or pinking and their signal, interpreted by the ECU, cause the ECM to advance/retard the ignition accordingly???' Yes would be the answer to that question.

    It does sound like pinking or pre detonation in the cylinders and as you say, it IS more noticeable under light load rather than hard acceleration.
    If the timing belt was incorrectly fitted, even 1 tooth out either way, will cause the VVT to not function correctly, from my understanding.

    It sounds like everything is fine with the build, but you possibly have a Map issue?

    I'm afraid, with no fault codes I'm unable to help you further. If it is pre detonation, then I'm sure you know not to drive the car

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    Thanks lee, this was my worry at first so I took it to a tuner locally to me to see if anything could be detected and read codes as my reader won't read them. We found no codes at all, no usage of the knock sensors and the timing at 7% advanced which they seemed to think was a good thing if anything. How would I tell if I'm getting pre det or pinking or knock??

    Thanks again guys

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    And no vvt as far as I'm aware on the 850? Know what you mean though as when I did my s60 it was a right Arse pain to get the light to go away and all align! Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsi15 View Post
    And no vvt as far as I'm aware on the 850? Know what you mean though as when I did my s60 it was a right Arse pain to get the light to go away and all align! Lol
    Sorry, I didnt know it was an 850. Thought it was late V70 P1.

    Pinking is normally heard as a crackling sound under light load acceleration. Very distinct!

    Have you checked your turbo for play in the shaft? If there is too much play, the impeller will foul on the turbo housing and that also manifests itself as a tinkling noise. In fact, I went out to a Focus last week doing exactly that. he had no smoke and only a slight lack of power but when i removed the intake hose to the turbo is was shagged and the impeller vanes had worn on the edges.

    Worth a punt mate!?

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    Again a very good thought. My top 3 ideas were pinking/detonation etc, gearbox noise or turbo. Il try and have a look but when I removed it I didn't notice much other than some movement in and out as supposed to side to side. That being said having removed it and fiddled a bit it's plausible it's developed new play as it's the original as far as I know.

    Only reason I'm still leaning away from engine is something in my mind makes me think it did this a bit before the engine change. Could a different exhaust manifold (s60r) change any rattles from a turbo that were already there?

    Would any pinking etc show as a code or knock sensor usage?
    Il try uploading a vid to YouTube when I can but tbh it's so hard to hear probably won't show much!

    Thanks!

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    Ok so changed gearbox oil to no effect, checked turbo and tbh it has very little movement so unlikely. Found a lose clip on the air box which didn't solve it.
    I'm leaning more towards pinking again but I find it odd I'm getting no usage of the knock sensors as I would have thought they would be working on it when it does it?

    Are there any other ways to detect pinking or detonation other than knock sensor usage? Would faulty knock sensors throw a code?
    Other thing would be the timing. As the tuners said it was advanced by 7% at idle what does that actually mean in real life in relation to timing belt positions?
    Also wondering how to check the air fuel ratio??

    Thanks guys!

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    The ecu will being it's hardest to make the engine run at the correct air fuel ratio.

    The knock sensors detect knock and the ecu then either adds fuel or retards the ignition to overcome the knock but as you are running a 2.4 engine on a 2.3 ecu it can't add enough fuel to overcome the knock.

    I would strongly recommend fitting a afr gauge before you end up melting a piston.

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    Thanks dant5r any top tip on how to do this and what ratios are normal??

    Thanks again

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    So this is the best I can get video wise. Few clips rolled into one. One of harder driving with no noises present and the other of the noise as best I can record. Only there when accelerating, oddly though got a much better recording with the phone down by the footwell that up by the steering wheel where you can hear anything


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    Sorry first isn't really relevant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsi15 View Post
    Thanks dant5r any top tip on how to do this and what ratios are normal??

    Thanks again
    The sensor needs to be fitted to the downpipe with the aid of a weld on boss.

    The correct reading at idle and normal driving is 14.7 - 15.0

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    Thanks buddy il get on this when money allows. Other thing may be trying to adjust my timing, if I'm 7% advanced how does that correlate to timing belt positions or is it not that simple? Il happily give the timing another go to see if that helps


 

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