2000 p2 V70 T5 not starting

[Dave_T5]

Turn the engine over at the crank by hand with ignition on, listen for fuel being injected into chamber. If no fuel being injected, is it not the crank position sensor that controls this?

It could be to do with the crank sensor, as i've said before, the lack of EML could be a red herring (and to be fair, i've been going down that route so far)

[LeeT5]

It could be to do with the crank sensor, as i've said before, the lack of EML could be a red herring (and to be fair, i've been going down that route so far)

Lack of EML with ignition 'ON' (engine 'OFF') normally means that the ECM is not powered up. It won't be a red herring but more likely the cause of your non start problem.
A faulty crankshaft sensor will not cause the EML to not light up.
You also said that your unable to read codes with a generic code reader. Can you elaborate on that? When you plug in the code reader, does it power up?
A lack of EML will normally mean that you cannot read codes from the EOBD port because there's no power to it. Having no power at the EOBD and no EML means your likely fault is a blown fuse, bad earth or faulty ECM (in that order).

Have you checked fuse 6 and 23 in the underbonnet fuse box? Ones a 5A the other is a 15A IIRC. Both should be live with ignition 'ON'. Other than that.....triple check ALL the fuses including the ones on the REM (Rear of the car).

Make sure the battery is fully charged. Have a battery charger connected all the time (at the battery). This will ensure stable voltage whilst carrying out diagnosis.
Some ECU's and modules are programmed to enter 'sleep mode' if the voltage drops below a preset amount. They 'awake' when the voltage is correct. Not sure if Volvo's do this but it's best to prevent it from happening in the first place, rather than pissing in the wind!

Basic rule of thumb when diagnosing a Non start:

1. Battery voltage above 12.5v
2. Plenty of fuel in the tank
3. Correct key - recognised by the car (no Immobiliser messages)
4. Using a Voltmeter and Ignition in pos.II, check for 12v and 5V at the MAF (this means ECU is powered up)
5. Check fuel pump fuse is 'live' (both sides) and Amp draw on crank is between 4-8amps. You can check for good fuel delivery at the rail. It should gush out not dribble!
6. Check for 12v at Injector harness (ignition 'ON')
7. Check for 'switching signal' at the Injector harness (during crank) - a switching pulse will confirm ECU powered up and crankshaft sensor is working.
8. Check for 12v, earth, 'switching signal' at the Coil harness (disconnected) - You will have a spark if all present (unless ALL your coils are open circuit - Very Unlikely)
9. Check throttle flap is not seized shut. (If this is stuck shut the car definately wont start - however, you will have EML 'ON' when ignition 'ON')
10. All fuses present and correct.

If you have ALL the above, then the car really should start. If not, then it's either severely flooded and bore washed with fuel OR there's something more serious wrong ie Timing belt jumped a tooth or mechanical failure. You could also have a faulty FPS. This will prevent the car from starting but won't give you the symptoms you have (just something to consider).

You must be methodical in your diagnosis, otherwise you'll keep treading on your toes.
If I've missed anything then I apologise. It's late and that's all off the top of my head.

Hope that helps

[Dave_T5]

LeeT5, thanks for your comprehensive guide. I am very much aware of a methodical approach to fault finding and have probably checked half of your list in roughly the same order (as much as I can do on my driveway in the odd hour here and there I get to spend on it!)

The obd reader powered up and scanned for faults, but didn't detect any, nor could it read any 'live' data. There is supply and earth to the diag socket, plus appears to be CAN communication to the ECM.

Will let you know how it goes when I next get a look

[LeeT5]

LeeT5, thanks for your comprehensive guide. I am very much aware of a methodical approach to fault finding and have probably checked half of your list in roughly the same order (as much as I can do on my driveway in the odd hour here and there I get to spend on it!)

The obd reader powered up and scanned for faults, but didn't detect any, nor could it read any 'live' data. There is supply and earth to the diag socket, plus appears to be CAN communication to the ECM.

Will let you know how it goes when I next get a look

Fair enough. Will be very interested to know what's wrong.

[Dave_T5]

Bit of an update...

Still waiting to get codes read with VIDA, but in the meantime i've checked a couple of other things.

Firstly, I can confirm there is a 12v and a 5v feed to the MAF sensor (also on the boost pressure sensor/intake temp sensor - whichever it is on the pipe under the inlet manifold)

Also tried checking for DTC's using the DIM. Pretty much every module has DTCs present, the only exceptions are:
TCM - just says 'checking'
ECM - says 'not checked'
DIM - says 'ready'
(See pictures)








Will let you know how it goes when i've read the codes

[LeeT5]

Using the DIM to check codes is pointless and misleading.

[Dave_T5]

Using the DIM to check codes is pointless and misleading.

Yeah, i kind of got that impression after seeing them - no good unless you actually know what the codes are...

[Dave_T5]

Well I now have Vida/Dice, and have read the codes. As predicted, there is no communication possible with the ECM, with code CEM-1A62 (communication with ECM control module signal missing) stored.



There were plenty of other faults before I cleared them down, many I suspect due to a flat battery, but will see if any return later when/if I get the car running.



The description for this fault points to:
- No power supply to the engine control module (ECM) - Tested and OK
- Open-circuit in the ground lead to the engine control module (ECM) - Tested and OK
- Contact resistance in the terminals - Disconnected/cleaned/reconnected several times, should be OK
- Open-circuit in the wiring for the CAN high speed network to the engine control module (ECM) - Checked CAN voltage going in/out of ECM, TCM and CEM, all the same (2.4v + 2.6V), plus the CEM is communicating with the TCM and ETM which are either side of the ECM on the CAN network.
- The engine control module (ECM) is not intended for this car (for example a used control module with different software/hardware). - Possible but unlikely, so I am assuming the ECM is cooked / lost it's software somehow (especially as I know it has had water ingress, although dried out now).

[LeeT5]

Don't shoot me as I'm only asking, but when you checked all the fuses in the fuse boxes with the multimeter......you did have the ignition in pos.ll, didn't you?.....and the fuses that were live (12v) had 12v on both sides of the fuse?

[Dave_T5]

I can clone a suitable replacement if you find a doner ECM, assuming the old one boots ok.

If it's had ingress then there could be a world of problems with it. CAN voltage is about right, there should be two pairs though?

Can you read the ECM codes with VIDA? If not it's toast/not booting/corrupt.

Also make sure the ECM is seated correctly.

So, it looks as if my ECM is not booting up (does not light up on Vida), what would you suggest is my best option?

If I was to send my ECM with another doner unit and you were unable to clone it, would you be able to make the doner unit virgin so it could be programmed by a Volvo dealer?

Cheers

[Dave_T5]

Don't shoot me as I'm only asking, but when you checked all the fuses in the fuse boxes with the multimeter......you did have the ignition in pos.ll, didn't you?.....and the fuses that were live (12v) had 12v on both sides of the fuse?

No worries, i did check the voltage on both sides of every fuse in the under bonnet fuse box and the drivers side dash fuse box with the ignition on, all live (12v ish)

Edit: also worth noting that the ECM is at least earthing out relay FMA2, providing feeds to coils/injectors etc..

[Harvey]

One thing I do when testing power supply is to use a headlight bulb on the earth & live pins on a plug, as if testing with a test meter it's easy to get a ghost voltage present Eg voltage but no amps.
Just wonder if you got a ecu from a second car would vida come back with a not coded to the car fault or if the software would just not boot up like you have.

[Dave_T5]

One thing I do when testing power supply is to use a headlight bulb on the earth & live pins on a plug, as if testing with a test meter it's easy to get a ghost voltage present Eg voltage but no amps.
Just wonder if you got a ecu from a second car would vida come back with a not coded to the car fault or if the software would just not boot up like you have.

That's a good shout, and exactly the reason why it's important to test for voltage / volt drop with the system connected and switched on - open circuit (ie component disconnected) voltage readings are pretty meaningless.

As for the donor ECU, I may end up getting a 'used' one to send away for cloning or recoding, so will probably have a go at plugging it in before i send it away to see what happens...

[Dream3r]

So, it looks as if my ECM is not booting up (does not light up on Vida), what would you suggest is my best option?

If I was to send my ECM with another doner unit and you were unable to clone it, would you be able to make the doner unit virgin so it could be programmed by a Volvo dealer?

Cheers

Sorry been busy, yes both possible.

[Dave_T5]

Well, finally got hold of a spare ECM... Tried plugging it to see if it communicates - obviously it still doesn't start but it does at least bring the EML on with the ignition now, proving it is now communicating. Haven't bothered plugging it into Vida, next step is to send them off for cloning/programming etc.

Thanks for everyone's input so far, will let you know once it's running (fingers crossed)

[Dave_T5]

Well, Dream3r (ECM-tech) confirmed the old ECM was cooked (the water ingress had affected the immobiliser chip inside the unit, hence why it couldn't communicate), unfortunately this meant he couldn't get the immobiliser codes from my ECM to clone to the donor ECM.

So, he flashed the donor ECM (made 'virgin') for me, I refitted and got the car recovered to the local dealer who have reprogrammed it.

It now starts..... however it is running very rough sometimes and won't idle correctly (hunts). Also it won't rev up correctly, feels like it's misfiring. The tech who worked on the car seemed to believe it was the ETM causing this, which I probably agree with.

The good news is the engine sounds smooth, with no knocks or rattles, so now that i've towed it home (considered driving it, but knowing my luck it would give up on a busy junction or something!) the next mission is to remove and clean the throttle module.

[Harvey]

A result to get it running ,well done.

[Dream3r]

Well, Dream3r (ECM-tech) confirmed the old ECM was cooked (the water ingress had affected the immobiliser chip inside the unit, hence why it couldn't communicate), unfortunately this meant he couldn't get the immobiliser codes from my ECM to clone to the donor ECM.

So, he flashed the donor ECM (made 'virgin') for me, I refitted and got the car recovered to the local dealer who have reprogrammed it.

It now starts..... however it is running very rough sometimes and won't idle correctly (hunts). Also it won't rev up correctly, feels like it's misfiring. The tech who worked on the car seemed to believe it was the ETM causing this, which I probably agree with.

The good news is the engine sounds smooth, with no knocks or rattles, so now that i've towed it home (considered driving it, but knowing my luck it would give up on a busy junction or something!) the next mission is to remove and clean the throttle module.

Great news on it starting! If you want I can send you my software to re-read out the software Volvo flashed, it uses DiCE and takes about 10 mins. I can then compare to what was on the ECM before if you like, no charge. It intrigues me this and I would certainly like to see it resurrected.

[Dave_T5]

Great news on it starting! If you want I can send you my software to re-read out the software Volvo flashed, it uses DiCE and takes about 10 mins. I can then compare to what was on the ECM before if you like, no charge. It intrigues me this and I would certainly like to see it resurrected.

I removed and cleaned the throttle module yesterday morning, still no improvement. Went to read the codes (if any) and reset adaptions if possible with Vida, but my DiCE unit decided it didn't want to work - typical. Will try again soon, but had other things to be getting on with...

Would be good to do this if I can get my DiCE working, or get hold of another.

[Dream3r]

Check with the DiCE diagnostic software first, it might be a VIDA issue.

Also, check the USB<>DiCE lead.