LeeT5's V70R Project

[LiamT4]

I think we are now getting around the ridiculus circle a bit more now.......

When the engine is cold starting and the heater flaps are on hot air supply...cold air is not drawn through from the outside of the car to let the interior heat up quicker!....so it has none or very minute effect on the warmup period of the coolant...

.......50 years ago ...yes, turn it off to stop coolant recirculating in the matrix well inside the car....

We are now ECC with some MCC units .............

I think you are getting confused regarding where the air actually comes from, yes it uses the heat from the engine to warm the air up, but where exactly do you think the air comes from originally?
Your attachment says nothing of the actual question, its just about the coolant constantly flowing. It says nothing about the temperature heating up at the same constant whether or not the fans are running.

Now with regards to having the fans off when the engine is cold in the winter and the heater warming up quicker, i'm not a car expert but i do know the basics when it comes to physics, so if you have a constant flow of cold air passing through the system then the energy is constantly being transferred from the hot area (heating system) to the cold area (air itself), thus the heating system itself will take longer to warm up than if it wasn't constantly being fed with cold air.

I don't know how it will work in practice (some cars have auxiliary heaters etc) but the theory is correct.

[LeeT5]

My understanding of the type of oil cooler Volvo fit on P2 models is this:

Coolant temp is kept pretty much constant, give or take a few degrees when the vehicle is moving, at about 88-91*C. I know this because my coolant temp sensor says so. Obviously I'm aware that this reading is only measured at the sensor. I'm also aware of a variation of about 10*C cooler, post Heater matrix. But essentially, with a cooling system that's functioning correctly (as mine is) then by and large, the coolant is running around the system at about 90*C. There will of course be hotter parts of the system, but I'm talking about the system as a whole.

Coolant, by it's very definition, is 50% water (I know this to because I put it in my car) and very good at convection.

Engine oil will always be much hotter than coolant, so when both mediums are passed through an Oil cooler (which really should be called a 'heat exchanger') then the heat from the hot oil will dissipate into the coolant, via the multitude of alloy plates housed within the cooler.
The larger the cooler, the more plates there are and therefore more surface area for the heat from the hot oil to exchange to the coolant and as the coolant flows faster than the oil, it will naturally take the excess heat away. The result will be cooler oil.

I do believe that the type of Heat exchanger Volvo use is a 'plate design', Like the ones found here:

http://www.thermex.co.uk/Plate-Type-Heat-Exchangers-3

[don kalmar union]

My understanding is that many professional motorsport teams now use the Laminova oil to water heat exchanger, certainly in most touring cars... not cheap, but apparently the most effective.

http://www.laminova.se/

Don.

PS should also be born in mind that the longer the pipes to any cooler the nearer you get to loosing maybe up to .5 bar pressure.

[jamesy12345]

My understanding is that many professional motorsport teams now use the Laminova oil to water heat exchanger, certainly in most touring cars... not cheap, but apparently the most effective.

http://www.laminova.se/

Don.

PS should also be born in mind that the longer the pipes to any cooler the nearer you get to loosing maybe up to .5 bar pressure.

Those look like some form of shell & tube exchangers rather than plate type. Very effective I bet.

Without the calcs to back all this up there’s nothing to say the D5 item isn’t up to the job though. I did heat transfer calcs at uni, & promptly left for a job in McDonalds when I realized they were far beyond me.

We are all over-thinking this IMHO

[Dream3r]

I based my heating comment on observations made on my car, unless the gauge lies or some other variable was in play it definitely heats up quicker. There's a point in a P2 where heating kicks in from a cold start, if it's off the coolant appears to warm up quicker from that point. Surely if there is less flow of air through a heat exchanger/radiator there will be more heat retained in the coolant.

My original thinking was a reverse of running the heater full blast when your car is overheating or you have a big hole in the radiator, granted this was on on a 1992 Ford and 1996 Golf VR6.

Sorry for going OT

[LeeT5]

The point is, the D5 Oil cooler isn't really an oil cooler, it's a Heat exchanger! If it were a dedicated cooler, then it would be mounted at the front of the car, in direct contact with air flow and it would be the cooler air that is employed to pass through the cooler/radiator and take away the heat from the oil, much the same as a coolant radiator, Turbo IC or a/c condenser.
The fact that the D5 cooler (heat exchanger) is mounted on the rear of the sump, directly out of contact with any airflow, especially, as in my case, if you have an underbelly tray - mine being aluminium, means it is really a 'Heat exchanger'. It may be one of the reasons why Volvo recommend the alloy protector plate is not fitted to an R model.
So, now I have fitted a 'larger' oil heat exchanger to my car, this should eliminate the problem of the oil running hotter.
I also, as you can see, removed the plastic shroud which would only act as an insulator and therefore, will also aid in it's ability to lose heat for both oil and coolant. Not by much granted, but every little helps!

[MIKESC70T5]

So you fitted a protector plate which causes the oil to get hotter and now a bigger cooler to keep the oil temp down. Why not just not fit the plate in the first place, especially if Volvo suggest you don't?

[stribo]

So you fitted a protector plate which causes the oil to get hotter and now a bigger cooler to keep the oil temp down. Why not just not fit the plate in the first place, especially if Volvo suggest you don't?

We've got the equivalent plastic one on ours, which I've removed, the problem is a lot of crap gets thrown up into the engine bay with it off.

[LeeT5]

So you fitted a protector plate which causes the oil to get hotter and now a bigger cooler to keep the oil temp down. Why not just not fit the plate in the first place, especially if Volvo suggest you don't?

That don't make sense??

Sorry Mike, I think you misunderstood me or maybe I didn't write it so well.

I never said my oil's running hot or hotter than normal, it was just a theory as to why Volvo say not to fit the alloy skid plate/protector plate/belly tray (whatever you wanna call it) to an R model. I don't actually know the reason.
Maybe someone with an 'Accessories' catalog can tell me?

Fact is, the plate protects my sump and as Stribo says, stops all the crap from coming up over the engine. So by fitting the larger heat exchanger it should run cooler anyway.

[Harvey]

So you fitted a protector plate which causes the oil to get hotter and now a bigger cooler to keep the oil temp down. Why not just not fit the plate in the first place, especially if Volvo suggest you don't?

I know they say not to be fitted if the car is used at high speeds , I guess cars that live on motorway / autobahn .
Here's what it looks like,there are a number of air intakes cut into the plate.

[Ettienne]

We've got the equivalent plastic one on ours, which I've removed, the problem is a lot of crap gets thrown up into the engine bay with it off.

I hit a big puddle 6 months ago and mines still dirty, has muddy water on plug cover

[LeeT5]

For the past year or so my RTi screen seemed to develop a fault where it would occasionally switch off but remain up. Then after a few seconds it would come back on. This has got steadily worse and more frequent until the point last month, when it was unusable. So, last week I removed my RTi screen and sent it away to be tested at Central Services in Ipswich.
They had it on a bench plugged in for over 36 hrs and not once did it switch off or go blank.
So, I've now had to remove my RTi unit from the rear of the car and sent that away too.

Bingo!!

Within 2 minutes of being plugged in the screen went blank. So they have confirmed the fault lies with the RTi unit.
One thing for sure and one that I'm glad about is they used all they're own cables and the fault was present. This rules out any fault with my car's cables (Thank fu ck) as that would be a nightmare to fix!

I just hope they can fix it!

[LeeT5]

UPDATE

Dave from Central Services in Ipswich phoned me today to tell me they have sussed the fault.
Faulty PCB in the RTi unit.
They have already replaced the board and tested and it now does not keep switching off. Result!

Hopefully get the units back Saturday.

[V70 Graham]

Great news, hopefully not too expensive.

[LeeT5]

Great news, hopefully not too expensive.

Thanks Graham. They had to replace the main board in the RTI unit, which is actually the RTI module.
It's all fitted back in the car now and works fine, only using the hand held remote thou!
The Steering wheel controls for the unit won't work and there are CEM - RTI no comms fault codes logged which will not clear until I take it to Volvo to have the RTI updated.

To fix the RTI was £275. I don't mind divulging that info because a new RTI unit is over £1100!!

[V70 Graham]

Just out of interest, it won't help me but might help others, do they offer any type of guarantee on their work ?

[Ettienne]

Have a read of your handbook to see what it says fluid wise,after Lee changing his I thought there's no harm to change mine looked in the book and gives a nice long number but no name.





I did Google the number but it didn't seem to cross reference to any other fluid. So it could be that 2006 cars on are different in some way ?.
So off to my Ford dealer less than £12 per bottle.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Millers-Oi...item234719ca1d

I found this says it's the same spec and millers make decent oil £8 per litre

[LeeT5]

Just out of interest, it won't help me but might help others, do they offer any type of guarantee on their work ?

Yes they do mate, 1 year guarantee, just like anyone else.

[LeeT5]

It would appear that since 2005> models of Volvo (V70/S60) specify Ford fluid. Earlier models, ie mine, specify 'Volvo power steering fluid' in the handbook.
It really doesn't matter guys what fluid type you use for 00-07 models as long as it's either:

Volvo power steering fluid (commonly known as Pentosin)
Ford spec fluid with the 'WS part#'
Comma - CHF 11S
...or the latest find by Etienne, Millers CHF.

CHF = Central Hydraulic Fluid.
Colour = GREEN

It's ALL the same stuff just in a different bottle!

[LeeT5]

Going back to the RTI fault, these were the faults I had after driving it for the week that the RTI unit and screen were removed from the car:



As you can see, it's checking but can't progress and there's no communication between CEM and RTI modules.

Once I cleared the faults I was left with this one that just would not clear:



Due to the fact that Central Services had replaced the main board in my RTI unit I released this was no different to replacing the entire unit and because the RTI unit is (as you can see on the screen shots) a 'module', I released that Volvo were going to have to step in and work their magic.

Had car booked into Volvo this morning for a 'RTI reload' on a waiting appointment. After 30 minutes all was good! The RTI and screen now function as they should and the steering control for the RTI, all work normally.



To say I'm chuffed is an understatement because not only does it all work normally, it's also much, much quicker!
The search function is 10x faster and when you set the route, it's almost instant!!