LeeT5's V70R Project

[stribo]

who said diesel engines run colder oil....?

In petrol (gasoline) engines, the top piston ring can expose the motor oil to temperatures of 160 °C (320 °F). In diesel engines the top ring can expose the oil to temperatures over 315 °C (600 °F). Motor oils with higher viscosity indices thin less at these higher temperatures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

I didn't say diesels run cooler oil, I said diesels run cooler as an engine. Sit in a diesel engined car on a cold day, and wait for the heater to work, you'll be sitting there a long time, an equivalent petrol engine will warm up far quicker. So I ask the question again, is the D5 oil 'cooler' actually an oil warmer?

[jamesy12345]

I didn't say diesels run cooler oil, I said diesels run cooler as an engine. Sit in a diesel engined car on a cold day, and wait for the heater to work, you'll be sitting there a long time, an equivalent petrol engine will warm up far quicker. So I ask the question again, is the D5 oil 'cooler' actually an oil warmer?

Maybe cos the oil cooler is bigger

Refer to post #209, we're going round in circles now

[stribo]

Maybe cos the oil cooler is bigger

Refer to post #209, we're going round in circles now

I wasn't talking Volvos specifically, but diesel engines in general.

[Sperm1980]

Coolant gets up to temperature before the oil does...maybe we should make a separate thread here

Hey, if that's what most think that's fine, but many years of testing heavy Diesel engines tells me otherwise. But I guess that's for another thread.

Nice car by the way Leet5, a credit to your ownership.

Cheers

[jamesy12345]

I wasn't talking Volvos specifically, but diesel engines in general.

no I was being serious...you right they do take longer to warm up....and that left me with the impression that they ran cooler also. If that wikipedia link is correct then maybe they are 'overcooled' no idea

Hey, if that's what most think that's fine, but many years of testing heavy Diesel engines tells me otherwise. But I guess that's for another thread.

Nice car by the way Leet5, a credit to your ownership.

Cheers

I was talking about cars....my Volvo 480 had nice digital oil & water temperature read outs...you are correct this could make its own thread

Sorry Lee!!

[Ettienne]

I suppose one thing to remember is they do make uprated oil coolers from places like ipd and you'd hope they are of benefit.

I just removed the plastic guard from mine for the moment.

[Dream3r]

I think Polestar run the D5 cooler on their C30, which answers that.

I've got one in the garage to fit when I have more time.

[Dream3r]

The D5 oil cooler is noticeably bigger than a stock T5/R oil cooler or any cooler fitted to a petrol P2.
It's been compared by trusted sources and the differences are most excellent IMH and worth changing.
Notably, the car's engine oil will warm up 1-2 miles sooner and the temperature of the oil will be much closer to that of the coolant. Also, when driven hard, the oil will be 10 - 15*C cooler than a stock cooler.

You can buy a new cooler from Volvo for about £200 or get a get used one on eBay for around £40.
I, luckily have a mate with a D5 engine that he just scrapped, so he gave me the cooler for free!



You'll need to purchase two new 'O' rings from Volvo. Part# 30637339 £5.70 ea:



Firstly, remove the plastic cowling. This aids cooling as the cooler is made of aluminium and the plastic jacket acts just like....'a jacket!'



Then, give the old girl a good clean up with some GUNK and a plastic brush, not forgetting to rinse out the cooler with petrol, making sure you don't pour petrol down the coolant hoses!!




Then very gently, clean the face of the cooler with a razor blade getting all the hard deposits off until it's smooth:



Then you can fit to the car.

You'll need two new 16-25mm Hose clips, two good hose clamps, a T40 and a flat blade screw driver to remove the non reuseable clip and safety glasses.

remove the black coolant hose from the oil cooler....you'll be using the hose on your car!

I had my car on quality ramps for this job. Make sure the engine is cold as you don't want to burn your arms on hot oil or coolant!
Undo the 4 x T40 bolts partially and use the flat blade screwdriver to crack the seal on the cooler and Sump. Have a catch can ready for the escaping oil. You'll only lose about 400ml of oil. Do NOT drain the sump!!

Then break the non reusable seal on the hose. Clamp off both coolant lines and use a small screwdriver to break the seal of the coolant hoses. The hoses are lined and very sticky when warm, so they grip very well. Getting a clamp on the right hand hose is a real PITA but is possible with care.
Once clamped and hose clamps removed, gently pull off the old cooler.

Wipe away any oil from the sump and remove the two old GREEN 'O' rings replacing them with the new BLACK 'O' rings.

Fit new cooler and tighten hose clamps.
Remove hose clamps.
Fit T40 bolts and tighten in the same fashion as doing up wheel bolts.....ie, top left, bottom right, top right, bottom left. Do them by hand first, then tighten securely but do not overtighten!! The sump is Alloy and if you strip the thread it will cost you around £400 for a new sump!

Here you can see the D5 cooler fitted versus the old one:



Once complete, start the engine and drive off your ramps then switch off!

Go and make a cuppa tea (not a beer cos you'll need to road test) as you'll need the oil level to settle....................10 minutes later..........

Check your oil level and top up accordingly. I had to add 0.5 litre.
Check your coolant level...initially, mine didn't move but I knew that it would be low in the morning.

ROAD TEST........then check for any oil/coolant leaks.

Park car on level ground because you will need to top up coolant the next day. I topped up mine by about 0.5 litre with 50/50 mix.

Good write up mate.

[oblark]

As your on the subject of oil coolers.

The focus ST & RS boys use a oil cooler from penta engine.

Its thicker than the D5 oil cooler.

[LeeT5]

OK, so everyone to there own....but i do think Volvo know a bit more than the average owner about there products ....which is why the Diesel oil cooler is larger than the Petrol version!

I do believe that you could be walking a tightrope doing this mod as the oil temperature in a diesel engine engine does run a fair bit cooler than in a petrol engine hence the larger cooler...

There is always blowpast in an engine and so therefore with blowpast a lot of the combustible materials can be circulating the sump which is why we have service intervals for changing the oil...

Along with those chemicals produced from combustion is water and the oil temperature has to be above the coolant temperature so the hot oil will have the least amount of water contained in it.

If the oil temp. is allowed to be cooler than recommended then the water may not evaporate completely and rather than just good synthetic oil going to the bearings then an oil water blend that may well boil the water out at the bearing surface and do damage!!.......

There will always be water present if oil temps aren't kept high enough!...

Now I do think think you're being ridiculous. That may well be the case about blowpast and I'm not disputing that fact. However, you're implying that I only drive my car 2 miles to the shops once a week and therefore, it that were true, Yes! I would be running the risk of high levels of condensation build up in my oil and possible engine damage caused by the said emulsified oil.
However, I don't! So

The most common way to see if an engine is not getting up to temperature is infact by just checking for emulsified oil being present around the oil filler cap. My missus's TT used to suffer with this because the Thermostat was partially jammed open and therefore would not allow the engine to get up to temp (unless I gave it a really good thrashing) in the 20 miles she drove to work and back, 40 mile round trip.
I knew the thermostat was stuck because the gauge rarely went over 70*C and it was nearly 6 months before I had a chance to sort it out. I was always wiping mayonnaise off the oil cap.
Now I have replaced the Thermostat and oil dipstick assy and replaced the engine oil and filter (6 months ago) the emulsified oil has not returned and the oil cap remains clean. The temp gauge gets up to 90*C a lot quicker than it used to get to 70*C too.

Ppl often confuse this with a failing head gasket when buying a car. Not so. It is evidence of sustained short journeys where the engine is not getting up to temperature, school runs, local shop trips etc.

Coolant gets up to temperature before the oil does...maybe we should make a separate thread here

That's a good idea, but I don't mind as long as ppl keep to the point and don't babble on about stuff that is not relevant.

[Dream3r]

One thing I do on short trips is keep the heating off, the coolant warms up a lot faster in the winter this way obviously

Bosch think of oil temp as a function of coolant temp, if that makes sense.

[LeeT5]

One thing I do on short trips is keep the heating off, the coolant warms up a lot faster in the winter this way obviously

Bosch think of oil temp as a function of coolant temp, if that makes sense.

No it doesn't make sense?

[Dream3r]

There is a clear relationship in turbocharged engines between coolant temp and oil temp, you can mathematically calculate an estimated oil temp value if you measure coolant temp and you can get more accurate if you measure some of the oil properties.

[960kg]

Now I do think think you're being ridiculous. That may well be the case about blowpast and I'm not disputing that fact. However, you're implying that I only drive my car 2 miles to the shops once a week and therefore, it that were true, Yes! I would be running the risk of high levels of condensation build up in my oil and possible engine damage caused by the said emulsified oil.
However, I don't! So

The most common way to see if an engine is not getting up to temperature is infact by just checking for emulsified oil being present around the oil filler cap. My missus's TT used to suffer with this because the Thermostat was partially jammed open and therefore would not allow the engine to get up to temp (unless I gave it a really good thrashing) in the 20 miles she drove to work and back, 40 mile round trip.
I knew the thermostat was stuck because the gauge rarely went over 70*C and it was nearly 6 months before I had a chance to sort it out. I was always wiping mayonnaise off the oil cap.
Now I have replaced the Thermostat and oil dipstick assy and replaced the engine oil and filter (6 months ago) the emulsified oil has not returned and the oil cap remains clean. The temp gauge gets up to 90*C a lot quicker than it used to get to 70*C too.

First of all i am not being rediculous and you can ridicule all you like.........you were probably still in your dad`s ball bag when i was doing laps around the Hatch in Kent in the `60`s

You said you only do 7k a yr which is not that much as you must use your AA van most of the time!

You have actually knocked the nail on the head and others have so far not even gone there, they just rant ridicule without thinking about a discussion.....yes, we can ALL ridicule!.........

The fact is if one mounts an oil cooler as an extra to the front of the motor it is not connected in any way to the coolant system and is purely put there to keep a check on the temps. of the oil in performance testing ,races , rallying ........i used to do rallying in the late `60`s so i do have some idea!

The oil cooler on the front bumper of a motor as said is not connected to the coolant system so in no way can it be controlled only by the ambient air temp., but the larger oil cooler with coolant pipes circulating within it fitted directly to the engine block is to some large extent controlled by the temp. of the coolant!...

Even if the bigger oil cooler is fitted in the standard place on the C30 as the V70 who know`s if the oil thermostat has been rated differently for that model?......

The oil thermostat on the V70 opens at 95 C and up to about 150 C.........but "Harvey" says the water temp on an R is around the 88-90 deg mark...which is worse or colder than i said at 92 C which is X40 T4 temp.......so therefore yes, the coolant will help raise the temp. of the oil quicker but only if the actual thermostat of the coolant is working ok!.......and furthermore if the engine only reaches 88 C then the oil will be kept at a operating lower temp. than it should be and not just because of the coolant but because the oil cooler is larger!

So basically if one knows what they are doing with race or track motors then that is a good conversion but NOT for the average Volvo owner or road car even if it has 300+.......

My Merc. has just had a remap which has resulted in 290bhp with a whopping 626Nm of torque and it still runs at 100 C coolant temp.......there is quite some leeway (excuse the pun) on standard running gear of all motors which is one reason remaps are got away with relatively easy...

All engines have to run as near to boiling point of the coolant as possible for economy, wear and performance which as we all know is why the coolant reservoir is pressurised to up the boiling point to stop coolant from boiling as the engine is best run at 100 C.

So therefore Diesels do run at the same operating temp. as Petrols BUT the diesel takes a lot longer to warm up because of the bulk of metal in a diesel engine to sustain the higher compression and give higher torque figures...

My V70 T5 was up to temp. in about half a mile on the guage but the Merc. takes at least five miles.......in fact it says in my handbook don`t dip the oil level until after 20 minutes of running otherwise you will get a low reading!

One thing I do on short trips is keep the heating off, the coolant warms up a lot faster in the winter this way obviously

I can`t quite believe just what you have written and i have just read!.....you do all these complicated maps or whatever and you don`t know that the Volvo heating coolant system cannot be turned off.....the coolant circulates the WHOLE system and is turned hot or cold air by electrically operated or vacuum operated flaps!

The coolant warms up exactly the same whether the heater controls are on or off....just because the flap on the dash maybe shut the heated air is still all in the pipes & hoses behind the dash!

[Ettienne]

I think that having the heater controls on hot does reduce engine temp as your drawing air through the matrix cooling it down and taking heat away from the engine.

It's just the laws thermal dynamics and conservation of energy surely?

[960kg]

I think that having the heater controls on hot does reduce engine temp as your drawing air through the matrix cooling it down and taking heat away from the engine.

It's just the laws thermal dynamics and conservation of energy surely?

I think we are now getting around the ridiculus circle a bit more now.......

When the engine is cold starting and the heater flaps are on hot air supply...cold air is not drawn through from the outside of the car to let the interior heat up quicker!....so it has none or very minute effect on the warmup period of the coolant...

.......50 years ago ...yes, turn it off to stop coolant recirculating in the matrix well inside the car....

We are now ECC with some MCC units .............

[LeeT5]

First of all i am not being rediculous and you can ridicule all you like.........you were probably still in your dad`s ball bag when i was doing laps around the Hatch in Kent in the `60`s

Change the record will ya! We've all heard that line too many times in the past from you.

Just because you're older, doesn't make you wiser or more knowledgeable! ...and please don't think I'm dissing you, cos I'm not. I've gotta lot of respect for 'old school engineering', heck I should know.
My old man's old school and I was taught by some of the best Engineers in the country back in 1990-92.

Technology moves on and so should you (or at least keep up).

As S70T5Chris and Oblark say, it's already been tried and tested in the field and is, without question, a good mod to do, regardless of whether I track my car or not. It will have no negative affect whatsoever on my engine.
So I don't give a rats about what you say with regards to 'water in my oil', cos as far as I'm concerned, it's irrelevant.
I have no 'mayonnaise' around my filler cap and I drop my oil every year regardless of mileage.

To suggest that I'm looking for brownie points on this thread too is utterly ridiculous. I modify, others modify and we all take from it what we want. If someone praises me for a good write up - then so be it, if they don't then I don't really give a ££££. Otherwise, what's the point of a project thread in the first place?

....and can you STOP keep pressing the bloody full stop key on your keyboard, when you mean to press the comma! It makes reading your posts even harder.

[LeeT5]

One thing I do on short trips is keep the heating off, the coolant warms up a lot faster in the winter this way obviously

Bosch think of oil temp as a function of coolant temp, if that makes sense.

In his defence 960kg, he's NOT a mechanic so wouldn't understand this.

[S70T5Chris]

My Merc. has just had a remap which has resulted in 290bhp with a whopping 626Nm of torque and it still runs at 100 C coolant temp.......there is quite some leeway (excuse the pun) on standard running gear of all motors which is one reason remaps are got away with relatively easy...

You can't have it all ways! Continually attacking what people do to their car more often than not, in a pretentious and condescending manner. Commonly quoting how a manufacturer spends millions developing xyz, and how could anyone know better? Yet on the other hand you have your car remapped by god knows who and choose to justify it, yet by your own logic, how could the pissy little garage that bunged their software on your car with their £300 laptop know better than Mercedes who undoubtedly spent millions developing the original tune?

I know you're supposed to respect your elders and all that but it works both ways mate. Let someone else have an opinion for once, especially one that is proven unlike your "theory" on the subject. And in this instance whilst you prove your knowledge on such matters to be vast (or at least to the untrained eye), you must concede that you are just wrong in this case of fitting a D5 oil cooler to a P2R (or varient)?!! Or are you just one of those narrow minded old duffers who can't stand to be told different by someone younger because "you're years make you far wiser and more knowledgeable". Eventually you have to move with the times!

[960kg]

Change the record will ya! We've all heard that line too many times in the past from you.

Just because you're older, doesn't make you wiser or more knowledgeable! ...and please don't think I'm dissing you, cos I'm not. I've gotta lot of respect for 'old school engineering', heck I should know.
My old man's old school and I was taught by some of the best Engineers in the country back in 1990-92.

Technology moves on and so should you (or at least keep up).

As S70T5Chris and Oblark say, it's already been tried and tested in the field and is, without question, a good mod to do, regardless of whether I track my car or not. It will have no negative affect whatsoever on my engine.
So I don't give a rats about what you say with regards to 'water in my oil', cos as far as I'm concerned, it's irrelevant.
I have no 'mayonnaise' around my filler cap and I drop my oil every year regardless of mileage.

To suggest that I'm looking for brownie points on this thread too is utterly ridiculous. I modify, others modify and we all take from it what we want. If someone praises me for a good write up - then so be it, if they don't then I don't really give a ££££. Otherwise, what's the point of a project thread in the first place?

....and can you STOP keep pressing the bloody full stop key on your keyboard, when you mean to press the comma! It makes reading your posts even harder.

I am really pleased you find it hard to read my posts and i do intentionally press the stop key...it is my way............................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..............I am also glad that for once something has got under your skin as YOU undoubtedly get under a lot of others by the way you talk or treat them .....your not in the army now mate your a mere AA mechanic that only just about gets people home and then probably on the back of a truck......Lol

Why don`t you calm down with others threads and treat them like members instead of "i know better " attitude......then perhaps members may not pick on yourself!

You also cannot obviously read or understand my posts properly as you would not answer the way you do!

You can't have it all ways! Continually attacking what people do to their car more often than not, in a pretentious and condescending manner. Commonly quoting how a manufacturer spends millions developing xyz, and how could anyone know better? Yet on the other hand you have your car remapped by god knows who and choose to justify it, yet by your own logic, how could the pissy little garage that bunged their software on your car with their £300 laptop know better than Mercedes who undoubtedly spent millions developing the original tune?

I know you're supposed to respect your elders and all that but it works both ways mate. Let someone else have an opinion for once, especially one that is proven unlike your "theory" on the subject. And in this instance whilst you prove your knowledge on such matters to be vast (or at least to the untrained eye), you must concede that you are just wrong in this case of fitting a D5 oil cooler to a P2R (or varient)?!! Or are you just one of those narrow minded old duffers who can't stand to be told different by someone younger because "you're years make you far wiser and more knowledgeable". Eventually you have to move with the times!

Chris...it is no good throwing stones back as your mob all do remaps and you know why all car manufacturers use one map for all over the world......

Also i did NOT say that this conversion was wrong YOU chose to tell me that..........read properly and not answer back just for the sake of....

You have all turned this into something that it isn`t through pigheadedness or should we say "inner circle" again!