T5 problems continue...

[jez.w]

Well I'm glad you've said that as that's the same person I used to repair mine although the running is almost as bad as before.

Mine idles poorly and drives without any poke, it's very flat most of the time.

The Volvo Diagnostic chap claims you don't need to reset anything, but I'm unsure now...


...do you think this could be my fault?



Yes sadly my DIM is out otherwise could've checked the codes bloody car!

Sounds like the same problems and symptoms as mine, but mine is ok most of the time.

I wonder if it is same problem too... as i said the ETM repair did fix my erratic idle and stalling problems and did turn off the EML, so no problems there, the repair did fix what they said it would. But maybe my ETM still has another fault, or has a software issue as I have had this intermitant rough running issue ever since the repair. Could be my ETM software doesnt work 100 percent perfectly with the contactless repair? Or something else is wrong with my ETM? I'm almost willing to pay £300 for a new ETM and reprogramming from Volvo just to find out, but i will loose my remap in the process........

Do you get any other symtoms apart from lumpy running?

[Leeds_finest]

So does £300 include a new TB and programming?

Well mine started off just being a slight pain when engine was freezing cold. It would idle fine and drive ok but until engine came upto temperature it was a little hesitant.

It gradually got worse and got to the point where idle was ok but driving at any speed, any engine temperature it was hesitant on/off driving and my girlfriend lost all hope and refused to drive the thing on the basis it was dangerous pulling out of junctions.

Then got so bad that it would switch on and idle but if left to idle for 5-10 minutes the engine would cut out.

Since ETM fix, the engine doesn't appear to cut out anymore, so I believe it has helped... But still plays up at present.

[LeeT5]

Refitted my overhauled throttle body and my car runs just as bad, if not worse.

On automatic choke it seemed fine, as soon as the revs settled on idle it just seemed to misfire and splutter.

Typically, no EML - yet there's quite clearly a problem (it's not even registering a misfire).

Getting sick of this car I cannot believe I bought another P2 Volvo, my first one was unreliable and now this is too.

I can understand your frustration, but i do feel that your §§§§ed off with your car and claiming its unreliable ONLY because you've spent sooo much time, energy and effort in trying to fix a fault that, lets be honest, was totally over your head and you had no chance right from the outset, without the proper diagnostic equipment. If you had only done what most of us were saying to you, which was to just drive to a dealer or HLM and with the correct diagnostics, they could of saved you the headache and maybe your opinion would be different and you'd not be so fed up.

Generic code readers are great as a quick (plug in and see why my EML is on) but, if you have no EML on then it just means that the upper or lower limits of the ECU's software ave not been reached and therefore, will not display an EML.
This, however, does not mean you won't have any codes. You will only be able to read those codes using VIDA/DICE or a code reader that has specific VOLVO software to read them, ie BSR diagnostic reader.

When you spend you £75 at the Dealer, that will include 30 minutes labour + the cost of the software (normally about £30).
If you have a new ETM fitted by the dealer then the £300 includes software + fitting as they are very easy to get to.

P1 Cars are not the same as P2's. Very close, but as MRP said...P2's are ME7.1

Jez.w ....Yes, you do get other symptoms of a faulty ETM. Namely the car will cut out and restart and in a worse case (as i had) it will cut out and completely not restart! My P1 did it to me as i came off the M20 at Junc 5 in lane 2.

Me personally, i think you have a faulty O2 sensor. However, i'm not going to speculate as with reading the cars ECU's for codes...You really are pis s ing in the wind!

DICE/VIDA will automatically read EVERY single ecu on the vehicle when its plugged in. I bet you have lots of faults, not just one.

[LeeT5]

Good luck guys. I reckon you've got an air leak somewhere personally.

Nah...its §§§§ in the carburetor!

[LeeT5]

Moving forwards....

I think a very valuable lesson will be learned here, when the Dealer actually get to the bottom of the fault and fix it.

Don't get me wrong, i'm all for mates helping each other out and lending a hand etc, but if neither of you are trained vehicle Technicians with the correct diagnostics equipment then you really should be leaving well alone. Stick to replacing ball joints and wishbones, things that are physically obvious and can be replaced at fairly low cost.
Doing my job i've come across so many wannabe home mechanics that think they can diagnose and fix their cars with little more than a socket set from Halfrauds and the internet. Most of the time they make matters worse and then expect us to come along, wave a magic wand and fix it. You should see their faces when i tell them that it can't be repaired anymore because they've broken this or short circuited that and then tell them that their car has gotta go to a dealer and could cost hundreds if not thousands!!

Anyone got a Merc here? You may or may not know about the SAM units on these cars are ultra sensitive. I know a few ppl that have tried to jump start their car which only had a flat battery, only to do irreversible damage to one of the SAM units. Dealer fix = £1500. Worse thing is, they didn't even know they had blown the SAM unit cos there was no symptoms other than (when i arrive) the headlights don't work or the car won't lock/unlock. They then tell you 'Well it worked before...' before what, before you did something you shouldn't have and caused more damage.

I'm not trying to take anything away from what you've done in the past, indeed, i admire your hard work and effort on stuff you've done previous but as someone said, sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet....and this time i know they are right.

If you wanna be able to see the whole picture when your car is not playing ball, then with Volvo P2's you gotta own a proper diagnostics tool. Whether that be DICE/VIDA or BSR diags or some other reader with Volvo specific software that can read ALL the ECU's and modules.

[LeeT5]

It's not a software update or a reload, it's more a reset of the engine ECU . Or a adaption procedure

But before this can be done all fault codes must be removed from the engine then the reset can be done which is easier said than done.

The engine ECU has learnt how to get the emissions correct when there's a worn component it just adjust it self to bring it back into line,so it just needs to be told there is a new component then it just goes back to day one and relearns what it needs to do.

It's actually an ECM reload - Engine Control Module.

Volvo will plug in VIDA/DICE which will read all the ecu's/modules and report. They will then log, erase and restart car, Possibly even road test to have faults re occur. Then once they know what the fault is, if it requires an ECM reload then they will Wipe the stored data from the ECM and then reload the latest file from Volvo Sweden. Then start the car and retest/read faults.

Any additional faults will then be reported back to yourself for you to say yes or no to have them fix.

[LeeT5]

UPDATE:

The overall outcome of yesterday afternoon is that the car is not fixed.

However, we did manage to rule out a fair few bits which, in my eyes, made the time spent on the car worthwhile...


1. Tested all coil packs with spare units.

2. Swapped ETM's. This is the interesting part as my car started and ran with James ETM and therefore would suggest that these units do not need any kind of re-flash or reload. Albeit the running problem remained, so we can probably rule the ETM out as being the issue, as my car behaved this way prior to my ETM overhaul, after my ETM overhaul and with James ETM too... but it started and drove which possibly puts that point to rest.

3. Swapped MAF's. Wow, those anti tamper screws, I really love those things anyway, swapped them over and no change.

4. Swapped one of the air sensors from the intercooler to throttle body pipe - admittedly it would've been a better idea to swap James whole pipe onto my car but this is in hindsight. One thing we noticed was, the sensor pulled out of my boost pipe very easily, almost too easily, but James removed his with great trouble (as you would imagine for a sensor that's meant to be air tight). Anyway, fitted this and gave it a good bit of movement while the engine was running but it didn't really make any difference at all.

5. Got part of the way to swapping the valve/solenoid/sensor that is attached to the side of the airbox. Sadly, beaten by the smell of steak and chips on the dinner table (red wine sauce, mushrooms, garlic bread). So we didn't manage to get this swapped over although was interesting to have a mess with those vac pipes and it seems they are a bit worn but no splits or cracks - I don't think anyway?!


Across the whole of our test the car threw no fault codes. Great. To add insult to inury, after the day was over I reversed my car off the driveway to let James off and as I took the car down the road opposite my house, gave it 'WOT' and the car took off like a rocket. There was me thinking 'wow maybe something has fixed itself'... spun the car round and drove back and it began to splutter again, pulled onto the driveway and it cut out. So we know it's intermittent which probably doesn't help matters. When we test drove the car throughout the day, James said it felt like some kind of boost problem as at times it seems to pull then it stutters... pulls... stutters and feels very on/off when driven. Air leak? Who knows!

Massive thanks to JamesT5 who cam two hours from Wales to West Mids to help me out. He's a good person to know.

I think I've reached the end of the line for what I can do and the time I can spend on the car. With running my own business and currently house hunting, I haven't got the time or energy to be bent over with my head stuck inside the engine bay. So it's off to a Volvo specialist maybe this week or next...

...all I know is it needs sorting out quickly, my work van doesn't have heated seats!


Thanks Ed

wow!!

All you needed was a multimeter and you could have checked your own MAF, Coils, ETM, MAP (that's the one on the turbo pipe) in about 30 minutes without swapping parts from car to car.

nevermind eh

[Leeds_finest]

I can understand your frustration, but i do feel that your §§§§ed off with your car and claiming its unreliable ONLY because you've spent sooo much time, energy and effort in trying to fix a fault that, lets be honest, was totally over your head and you had no chance right from the outset, without the proper diagnostic equipment. If you had only done what most of us were saying to you, which was to just drive to a dealer or HLM and with the correct diagnostics, they could of saved you the headache and maybe your opinion would be different and you'd not be so fed up.

No, completely DISAGREE.

A problem is only over your head once you've exhausted every option yourself, with all the knowledge and tools you have whether youre a Volvo master tech or average Joe at home on his driveway. Its only over your head from the outset if you choose to pass on trying to fix it yourself.

I take everyone's point on the whole Volvo specific equipment ad yes I agree it does need to be read by VIDA however I have fixed misfires before with a generic code reader and the will to do something simple, in that instance, swapping coil packs ad fitting a new one fixed the problem. Money saved from NOT visiting a dealer? Well - the quote for a genuine Volvo coil pack alone was ridiculous let alone labour on top...

I agree, that now is the time to wave the white flag and it will be going to the dealers this week hopefully as I have reached the limits of what I can do myself. Up until this point, it was not over mine or anybody else's heads.

I take on board what you say about those Mercedes units... Some components are sensitive!

Just a thought to leave you with... My 'money bags' neighbour drives a 335 D coupe. His parking sensors packed up an so he took it to a dealership to be fixed. £100 bill and the parking sensors work again. Shortly after, they stopped working again and he went back to the dealers and complained. The chap on the service desk popped outside with him, sat in the car, fiddled through the idrive and switched them back on with a simple on/off function. My neighbour had basically been accidentally switching them off each time and was charged first time for switching them back on...

If you're the kind of person that likes to try and avoid POTENTIALLY unnecessary cost, I suggest you get your spanners out first and take it to a garage last.

Yes I completely 150% agree, in hindsight, the problem is above me. Was it above me from the outset? Of course not. The amount of times many of us have fixed faults at home at zero cost - I'm sure we all couldn't count on both hands.

[JamesT5]

LeeT5, Ed has not wasted his time because like me, he wants to avoid a garage bill which may not be needed.

I'm getting really fed up of all the jumped up "know it all's" on this forum criticising other members for having a go themselves when doing so may actually solve the problem. If it's a complex job or requires special equipment or an engine remap that requires specialist software then fair enough, take it to a garage. But I fixed my misfire problem on my own driveway without an expensive session on Vida.

[claymore]

LeeT5, Ed has not wasted his time because like me, he wants to avoid a garage bill which may not be needed.

I'm getting really fed up of all the jumped up "know it all's" on this forum criticising other members for having a go themselves when doing so may actually solve the problem. If it's a complex job or requires special equipment or an engine remap that requires specialist software then fair enough, take it to a garage. But I fixed my misfire problem on my own driveway without an expensive session on Vida.

Who's criticizing, we all have opinions, and the majority of opinions was to get the car onto a proper diagnostic, as far as I can see, 10 days have been wasted faffing about in the dark for nothing.

[JamesT5]

Who's criticizing, we all have opinions, and the majority of opinions was to get the car onto a proper diagnostic, as far as I can see, 10 days have been wasted faffing about in the dark for nothing.

It's not what people do/say, it's the way they do it!

[M-R-P]

LeeT5, Ed has not wasted his time because like me, he wants to avoid a garage bill which may not be needed.

I'm getting really fed up of all the jumped up "know it all's" on this forum criticising other members for having a go themselves when doing so may actually solve the problem. If it's a complex job or requires special equipment or an engine remap that requires specialist software then fair enough, take it to a garage. But I fixed my misfire problem on my own driveway without an expensive session on Vida.

Your misfire problem was a physical problem that you could see and subsequently fix.
The problem you have now, going by the vast amount of descriptions of not only the symptoms but your efforts to resolve them, isn't something that can be sorted without a proper diagnostic. Fair play for trying James, I've nothing but respect for your efforts but you should realise when you're beat mate.

I've seen no criticism so far other than asking why you've not done the obvious and plug the bloody thing into vida and get it sorted!

Are we being jumped - up knowitalls or are you being pig-headed and blind to the facts?

Personally, I'm fed up with banging my head against a brick wall with this - I'm out.

[Leeds_finest]

Personally, I'm fed up with banging my head against a brick wall with this - I'm out.

Hold on a second, we've tried, we've failed... and now it's being taken to a dealer this week as suggested - what's your problem????



James is fed up with people for knocking other peoples efforts. I sympathise with him. Admittedly you did say try MRG from the start but even you suggested swapping the FPR so you must have thought there was a point in trying ourselves first?

Some people won't say anything at all, until you fail, then come out with silly comments like "I knew all along you should've had a Volvo diagnostic"... easy to say afterwards isn't it?

Will update once has been plugged into VIDA.

[M-R-P]

Hold on a second, we've tried, we've failed... and now it's being taken to a dealer this week as suggested - what's your problem????



James is fed up with people for knocking other peoples efforts. I sympathise with him. Admittedly you did say try MRG from the start but even you suggested swapping the FPR so you must have thought there was a point in trying ourselves first?

Some people won't say anything at all, until you fail, then come out with silly comments like "I knew all along you should've had a Volvo diagnostic"... easy to say afterwards isn't it?

Will update once has been plugged into VIDA.

That's not my problem mate. It's having said (along with many others) to get the thing (s) (yours and James' cars) plugged in some time ago, and being ignored, then having said it again and again but getting an attitude back for my efforts.
I don't recall mentioning the fuel pressure regulator (I have a spare if you want it) but I could list a load of stuff you haven't tried but you probably wouldn't be able to test those things without specialist equipment.

I just don't like to see people waste their time and I feel I've wasted mine, constantly saying the same thing, only to get it knocked back. I did sympathise with James but he's not doing himself any favors by gobbing - off at the people who have been trying to help him and you for months now.

I hope you guys get your cars sorted, I honestly do. I've done all I can so I'm gonna leave it there as I don't want any animosity between us all.

[Leeds_finest]

That's not my problem mate. It's having said (along with many others) to get the thing (s) (yours and James' cars) plugged in some time ago, and being ignored, then having said it again and again but getting an attitude back for my efforts.
I don't recall mentioning the fuel pressure regulator (I have a spare if you want it) but I could list a load of stuff you haven't tried but you probably wouldn't be able to test those things without specialist equipment.

I just don't like to see people waste their time and I feel I've wasted mine, constantly saying the same thing, only to get it knocked back. I did sympathise with James but he's not doing himself any favors by gobbing - off at the people who have been trying to help him and you for months now.

I hope you guys get your cars sorted, I honestly do. I've done all I can so I'm gonna leave it there as I don't want any animosity between us all.

You haven't been ignored by me at all. I acknowledge people's points but this weekend was the first opportunity to actually put pen to paper and try and figure the problem out.

Given that there's no codes or EML showing whatsoever it actually defies logic to plug a computer into it doesn't it... When you stop and think about it? I do see that there maybe something in resetting the throttle body, however.

There's no animosity at all, some people (excluding yourself) just need to realise that negative input doesn't solve a problem. We can all sit on the fence until the end and then say 'told you so' but that's doesn't help anyone.


Thanks

[LeeT5]

Given that there's no codes or EML showing whatsoever it actually defies logic to plug a computer into it doesn't it... When you stop and think about it?


Thanks

Actually, NO. As i have said and others before, just because you don't have an EML and no generic codes from your generic code reader, does not mean there aren't any fault codes logged.

A generic code reader will only interrogate the main engine ECU and it's only as accurate as the software that is built into the reader to enable it to correctly decipher the ECU's codes in the first place.
So you read the car with your code reader and as said (the blind leads the blind) assume there is nothing serious or faulty with your car and crack on trying to fix it by swapping bits out, just because your code reader says "No fault codes logged".

As Claymore said, a complete waste of time and effort when all you needed to do was have VIDA plugged in. So it would of cost you £75 at the dealer, so what! At least you would have put this to bed ages ago. Also, not knowing what the actual fault was, how do you know you weren't doing more damage by continuing to drive/use the car? I have seen a catalyst on a Citroen glow cherry red because of a faulty coil pack and the bloke only drove 3 miles!! He has probably done irreversible damage to the catalyst but we will never know until its next MOT.

Gone are the days that most problems can be fixed by hitting them with a hammer. In this day an age, ALL garages have to rely on Diagnostic equipment to be able to accurately interrogate vehicle ECUs and Modules. You both own P2 cars and thus you must, at the very least, have them code read (properly) before you undertake trying to fix them.

Cast your mind back to Martyns P2R with his running problems when he had the AMS system fitted. I don't know who else he spoke to but i know he regularly rang me for advice, which i willingly gave. He had tried everything and for months the saga went on. I kept saying to him, get your codes read and live readings checked! He was even raping parts from his Dad's car in a vain effort to eliminate components.

At the end of the day he admitted defeat and drove the epic journey to MRG where i actually drove 230 miles myself to meet him. Once there MRG plugged into his car to get MAF readings (live), as my car also has the AMS system and drove perfect, they would also compare his readings to mine. They correctly diagnosed a faulty MAF and when plugged into mine, this was confirmed and it was plain to see his MAF was just out of operating limits but not enough to put on an EML. Due to the increased airflow from the AMS S/S filter the faulty MAF was not able to accurately measure air flow and therfore the ECU was doing its own adjustments causing the car to run rich/lean (i can't remember). One new MAF later and Martyn was a happy bunny.......well, until his Angle gear blew up on the way home

The point is, you cannot own a P2 or any car post 2001 without relying heavily on Diagnostics, good ones at that. Also being able to decipher what they mean! Then apply that to accurately diagnosing and rectifying the fault.

If that's not above your head then i've no idea why it's taken so long to sort and why so much time and effort was wasted in trying to cure the problem.

MRP is right too. JamesT5 fault was physical and relatively easy to fix. Well done James!! Thou, it would have been diagnosed a lot quicker if he had VIDA.

Leeds Finest, i'm afraid, yours was never going to be obvious and that is what we've all been trying to say all along.

CODES< CODES< CODES!!!!

Am interested to find out what the problem was!

[LeeT5]

LeeT5, Ed has not wasted his time because like me, he wants to avoid a garage bill which may not be needed.

I'm getting really fed up of all the jumped up "know it all's" on this forum criticising other members for having a go themselves when doing so may actually solve the problem. If it's a complex job or requires special equipment or an engine remap that requires specialist software then fair enough, take it to a garage. But I fixed my misfire problem on my own driveway without an expensive session on Vida.

No offense taken!

[jardon]

£80 for a DiCE!!!!!

It will show you stuff that's "half broken" - pending/soft faults as well as hard faults (the type your generic code reader spots).

[Leeds_finest]

If it is the case that VIDA can pick up codes that a generic code reader can't and can in fact pick up codes that don't show an EML then I have got the wrong end of the stick.

I was under the impression that VIDA picks up on the codes just as a normal code reader does but can also provide live data (which some detailed generic code readers do too)... It would seem this is not the case.

I still stand by what I said before - it wasn't over our heads from the outset as it couldve been something simple like a loose clip or plug - had it have been that which was a perfectly conceivable idea - would it have been over our heads then? No.

Our efforts cost us nothing but a Saturday afternoon (and I replaced a fuel filter which was probably due anyway). I don't rely on my car as I use a work van...

...nothing lost if you ask me.

[Leeds_finest]

£80 for a DiCE!!!!!

It will show you stuff that's "half broken" - pending/soft faults as well as hard faults (the type your generic code reader spots).

I know mate I had the VIDA/dice but sold it and didn't think I would need to reinvest.

Just out of interest which throttle body does yours have? The original one?