Car won't start.....beginning to look expensive !

[JamesT5]

At least it's not the fuel pump or sender unit. Good luck with it, unfortunately electronics are not my strong point...

Regards

James

[V70 Graham]

Right, I'm home.....

Car was collected at 0900 this morning and taken to the garage, around 1430 I had a phone call.

They had checked for flooding and found no sign this was my problem, the compression was good, so they plugged in the code reader and found the 'ECM not found' code which I had been told about previously.

They suggested flashing the ECM I had, cheapest option, and so thats what they did.....no luck.

They are now 99% sure it is the actual ECM, and they have given me 2 choices, as they do not have and cannot source a reconditioned unit I can either send mine away to be tested and possibly fixed (approx 2 weeks) at a cost of £400.00 or go for a new unit from Volvo at £700.00

Obviously whichever way I go I will need to flash the new unit as well.

BUT.....take a look at this (last post)

http://volvoforums.com/forum/volvo-v...t-start-55375/

NOW what should I do ? Also where would I stand if I gave them the go ahead and it turned out not to resolve the problem ?

.....any feedback GREATLY appreciated.

[M-R-P]

How much will a new car (with all it's possible foibles) cost?

That's the question that's kept the Big Sweed out of the scrappy for the last 18 months.

Like I've said before, the car is perfect, I'd spend the money.

[V70 Graham]

How much will a new car (with all it's possible foibles) cost?

That's the question that's kept the Big Sweed out of the scrappy for the last 18 months.

Like I've said before, the car is perfect, I'd spend the money.

That's not my main worry.....I just don't want to spend the money and STILL have the problem !

[JUDGENINJA]

Can't a broken car ECM be used? I'm sure there are few being broken.

[M-R-P]

Press them for some sort of guarantee... they're a volvo specialist after all. It may be a complicated car but it's still a car and it's built by Volvo specialists.
If they can't say yes or no then they may be in the wrong business.

(this is the angle I'd go from any-hoo)

[V70 Graham]

Forgot to mention.....the second auto electrician that looked at the car on Thursday rang me this evening, he said he had sent the cars 'log' to Autologic and they had come back with either wiring to the ECM (checked and ok) or the ECM itself.

[Dangerous Dave]

Could you buy another ecu off a breaker and get the specialist to clone yours? Got to be cheaper than a 'reconditioned' one?

[V70 Graham]

Could you buy another ecu off a breaker and get the specialist to clone yours? Got to be cheaper than a 'reconditioned' one?

Not the ECU mate, it's the ECM, will look into it though.

[Dangerous Dave]

D'oh, that'll teach me to read posts properly

[ajc106]

hi have had this same thing on my 96 850r started her up moved 2 foot turned off would not start sounded like there was no compression called the AA very nice man, connected battery boost pack and put foot flat to the floor after a few minutes she started up fine, has happened again since so i did the same and she started up ok just a thought this might help

[glock19]

If there's no communication to the ECM, it's the ECM itself.
I've repaired a few units for a small fee but I'm a great distance from you guys, so that's out of the equation.
You can take a CEM, ECM and the car keys from a donor (scrapped) vehicle of the same year and make and use them though.

[Kingsford G]

No communication means its not working or no connection.If the wires ok than the actual unit.

[LeeT5]

I am not a one for hanging on a starter with a modern motor as if our cars don`t start quick there is something wrong, with my T4 the plugs were soaking wet when taken out and so were the combustion chambers, the reason i let to dry out all day was the fact that holding open the throttle is suppose to do the opposite of an N/A engine with a carburretor.

If flooded on a carb. unit you open the throttle WOT and let more air in to dilute the petrol to start but with an ECU and MAF engine the MAF will say put more petrol in as the throttle is WOT so you should not open the throttle.

It says this in the handbook...don`t touch the throttle when starting... it is very difficult not to as we are creatures of habit so i always keep away from it and have no trouble starting since even on my V70 T5. But now i have two batteries, a new one and another always fully charged just in case.

In my experience this is not always the case. I forget which make but some of the cars out there are actually programmed to switch off the injectors when WOT, if the engine is not actually running. This can be advantagious when a car engine is flooded because it prevents further fuel being injected.

I too have never heard of the 'Lawnmower effect'. In the trade, a car that is flooded with fuel and doesn't start is commonly known as being 'borewashed'. Anyway...as far a Graham's V70 is concerned, i would be checking the following:

1: Battery voltage above 12.2v and cranks the engine
2: Check for 12v and 5v references at injectors / MAF (this will rule out ECU fault/if 5v is present then the ECU is powered up and working)
3: Injectors switching on crank? (This will eliminate ECU, crankshaft sensor fault and immobilisor)
4: Fuel pump current draw? (check at the fuse - should be between 5 - 8amps)

If i found the above to be all present and correct and the car does not start, then as far as i'm concerned the car is flooded as Graham has already admitted to starting and switching off the car in a very short time.

You do not need to pour oil into cylinders to irradicate this issue. Simply remove the spark plugs then clean and dry. Then with car battery connected to either a powerful boost pack/doner car with good jump leads that can carry 200AMPS without melting or a battery charger that has a boost start facility, crank the engine over for no more than 10 seconds each time with a minute inbetween to cool down. This will irradicate the borewash and prevent overheating the starter motor. You only need do this a few times. Refit the spark plugs, refit the fuel pump fuse then crank her over (without touching the throttle). Car should start.

I find it very hard to believe that the dealer are pinning this down to a faulty ecu. (BTW, ECM and ECU in Volvo speak are the same thing. Engine control Module or Unit are both the same thing).

If the RAC man did his job properly, the above 4 checks take no more than 15 minutes. Tools needed are a Multi meter and a Noid light or LED tester for switching at the injectors and an AMP clamp.

Just throwing this out there, but nobody has mentioned doing a battery reset! If any of the ECU's has had a hissy fit it stops working or freezes. SImply removing the earth off the battery for 5 minutes then refitting often cures the problem and restores everything back to normal.

Works on all makes and models (you just have to becareful when reconnecting the battery as some cars have a certain procedure ie Volvo P2 models - you MUST have the ignition ON before reconnecting the earth)

EXAMPLE: Volvo V50 2.0D, cut out halfway up the driveway after driving home from work. Car was an AUTO and was also stuck in D. After a minute the customer managed to get the gear select into P but then it still wouldn't start. I arrived and carried out a few simple checks including checking for any fault codes, none were stored. Disconnected battery.....refitted and vehicle started. Everything restored to normal operation. Conclusion was the car's Gearbox ecu had a hissy fit causing car to cut out. The reason why the car wouldn't start was because the ECU thought it was still in D, therefore preventing the engine from starting (built in safety). After powering down the ECU and rebooting...the correct gear was selected, ie P and the car would then start. Mechanically all was well as i followed the car to the garage, just incase there was an inherent gearbox fault.

You should be asking the Dealer these Q's Graham before you shell out £700 for a new ECU!!

As far as the Diagnostic codes...They are there as an aid to diagnostics and not the Be ALL and END all to the inherent fault. It does pi@@ me off when ppl and or dealers jump to the wrong conclusion and assume that just because a diagnostics reader says: ECM - No communication, does NOT mean that your ECM if ££££ed! You need to do the basics first and always assume that its something simple.

I hope that the dealer find the fault and that it doesn't cost you dear.

[Chad]

Won't be long now... he's due home from work in a sec...

you make it sound like your married!!! lmao!!!

[M-R-P]

you make it sound like your married!!! lmao!!!

Oops! outed!

[Harvey]

Just to ask if you fitted a second hand unit that is not coded to the car would you get a not coded to car fault if you did then you would know that power was getting there , just a idea ?.

[V70 Graham]

In my experience this is not always the case. I forget which make but some of the cars out there are actually programmed to switch off the injectors when WOT, if the engine is not actually running. This can be advantagious when a car engine is flooded because it prevents further fuel being injected.

I too have never heard of the 'Lawnmower effect'. In the trade, a car that is flooded with fuel and doesn't start is commonly known as being 'borewashed'. Anyway...as far a Graham's V70 is concerned, i would be checking the following:

1: Battery voltage above 12.2v and cranks the engine
2: Check for 12v and 5v references at injectors / MAF (this will rule out ECU fault/if 5v is present then the ECU is powered up and working)
3: Injectors switching on crank? (This will eliminate ECU, crankshaft sensor fault and immobilisor)
4: Fuel pump current draw? (check at the fuse - should be between 5 - 8amps)

If i found the above to be all present and correct and the car does not start, then as far as i'm concerned the car is flooded as Graham has already admitted to starting and switching off the car in a very short time.

You do not need to pour oil into cylinders to irradicate this issue. Simply remove the spark plugs then clean and dry. Then with car battery connected to either a powerful boost pack/doner car with good jump leads that can carry 200AMPS without melting or a battery charger that has a boost start facility, crank the engine over for no more than 10 seconds each time with a minute inbetween to cool down. This will irradicate the borewash and prevent overheating the starter motor. You only need do this a few times. Refit the spark plugs, refit the fuel pump fuse then crank her over (without touching the throttle). Car should start.

I find it very hard to believe that the dealer are pinning this down to a faulty ecu. (BTW, ECM and ECU in Volvo speak are the same thing. Engine control Module or Unit are both the same thing).

If the RAC man did his job properly, the above 4 checks take no more than 15 minutes. Tools needed are a Multi meter and a Noid light or LED tester for switching at the injectors and an AMP clamp.

Just throwing this out there, but nobody has mentioned doing a battery reset! If any of the ECU's has had a hissy fit it stops working or freezes. SImply removing the earth off the battery for 5 minutes then refitting often cures the problem and restores everything back to normal.

Works on all makes and models (you just have to becareful when reconnecting the battery as some cars have a certain procedure ie Volvo P2 models - you MUST have the ignition ON before reconnecting the earth)

EXAMPLE: Volvo V50 2.0D, cut out halfway up the driveway after driving home from work. Car was an AUTO and was also stuck in D. After a minute the customer managed to get the gear select into P but then it still wouldn't start. I arrived and carried out a few simple checks including checking for any fault codes, none were stored. Disconnected battery.....refitted and vehicle started. Everything restored to normal operation. Conclusion was the car's Gearbox ecu had a hissy fit causing car to cut out. The reason why the car wouldn't start was because the ECU thought it was still in D, therefore preventing the engine from starting (built in safety). After powering down the ECU and rebooting...the correct gear was selected, ie P and the car would then start. Mechanically all was well as i followed the car to the garage, just incase there was an inherent gearbox fault.

You should be asking the Dealer these Q's Graham before you shell out £700 for a new ECU!!

As far as the Diagnostic codes...They are there as an aid to diagnostics and not the Be ALL and END all to the inherent fault. It does pi@@ me off when ppl and or dealers jump to the wrong conclusion and assume that just because a diagnostics reader says: ECM - No communication, does NOT mean that your ECM if ££££ed! You need to do the basics first and always assume that its something simple.

I hope that the dealer find the fault and that it doesn't cost you dear.

1. Battery voltace checked and over 12.2v and cranking fine.
2. NO 12v at injectors, power IS getting to ECM.
3. Injectors NOT switching on crank.
4. Fuel pump seems fine, fuel under pressure at rail.

[V70 Graham]

Latest update, part ordered, will take 2-3 days to arrive.....should know one way or the other by Friday !

[Kingsford G]

[QUOTE=LeeT5;54 It does pi@@ me off when ppl and or dealers jump to the wrong conclusion and assume that just because a diagnostics reader says: ECM - No communication, does NOT mean that your ECM if ££££ed! You need to do the basics first and always assume that its something simple.[/QUOTE]

U would expect all the basic checks done prior concluding a £700 needs replacing,wouldn`t u?Tbh I don`t know the set up of me7 so can`t really comment but all the facts indicate on ECM so lets wait and c.I know it`s a bit of money tp spend Graham but u won`t find the same one thats for sure so it`s worth it.