Engine.... what to do..

[AndysR]

Well as you all may know by now at the Essex meet Damiens' engine decided to develop a low down tapping noise which increases with engine speed disappears on overrun and then returns at idle. The car runs smoothly and without fault apart from the low down tapping noise which having reviewed a number of videos on youtube I believe to be a bent rod. I have been away for a few days but my brother managed to get down to the garage and film the engine from cold start.
There are two videos one is the noise from the engine from cold start up on Monday evening having sat in the garage since Sunday afternoon for the first few moments at this time the noise is not present, the only noise you can hear are the injectors if your wondering..

http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...t=100_3315.mp4

Then after about 5 minutes of running this is how it sounds, you can just about hear it with the bonnet open and it is easier to hear it with the bonnet down.

http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...t=100_3317.mp4

This video of someone elses engine is probably a better video to give you an idea of what it sounds like but perhaps slightly quieter..

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXx1o2liXHs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXx1o2liXHs[/ame]

I'm 99% sure it's a rod and based on this and after having a few days out to think it over I've come up with 3 conclusions.

1, Return the car mechanically to standard and sell the turbo, injectors, ecu etc seperately then sell the car complete with a noisy engine in an attempt to claw some of the money back I have invested but allow someone else to give the car a 2nd chance.

2, Break the car completely and sell off in parts. This being the way to claw the most back from what I have invested.

3, Strip the current engine, fit uprated rod's and clean/check all the other parts. Replace the oil pump, shells refitting with new h/gasket etc thus restoring the car to how it was with the added protection of having stronger rods.

As far as I view it there are no other options yes I could source another standard engine but there would be no guarantees with a second hand engine as to it's condition and it's likely to do the same again, plus with my engine having only done 109,000 miles with superb service history I know up until the tapping noise that this engine is sound. Up until Sunday it didn't even tap on start up regardless of whether it was hot cold or had been left for a month unused...

My thoughts on the options above are as below..

Repairing the engine: I invest the cash in the engine and something else decides to go pete tong. Perhaps the gearbox for example, I've had it suggested that I could convert it to manual whilst repairing the engine. Yes the car could be converted but I've driven a number of manual T5/850's and tbh I don't like them. I am sure this will start WW3 but I genuinely think the car lends itself more towards an auto than a manual. I find the manuals harsher and clunky, the whole idea behind what I've done with Damien is to have a 50/50 balance between comfort and performance. I came from the Orion which was hard to drive in traffic and generally harsh which is what made me change. I like the relaxed nature of Damien when your just making a journey but I also like to know that I have a good turn of smooth power and handling on demand. To remove or alter this would remove my enjoyment from the car and remove the purpose of having it. It's purely a leisure vehilce so I need to enjoy it to justify it. Another concern I have about repairing the existing engine is having split an engine apart will it actually be the same again.. Sounds silly but I've heard a number of stories about engines which just aren't the same again after being apart.. plus you've got the agro of possible oil and water leaks as a result of a faulty gasket it poor sealer join.

As it stands currently I have a folder full of receipts which total well into the £XX,XXX's that I've spent in proper maintainence, care and repairs which have helped me along to this point. I am not going to bore you with the details but to say that I've had a bumpy ride with this car over the last 4 1/2 years would be an understatment, if it could go wrong it did, why do you think it's called Damien! But that money is already spent and I know I won't get anywhere close to that value back, tbh it was written off along time ago. So as I said my views towards the car have changed and currently I feel to make any further investments would be poorly thought out. To counter the second hand engine point going down this route goes against anything I've done on the car before now and I know I wouldn't be happy.. Sounds strange I know but I just wouldn't.

So rather than invest the cash how about calling it a day?
So option 1 would allow Damien to have a "2nd chance" with someone else.. Maybe they would have more luck with than I have with the car... and I'd get a little something back for my efforts.

Option 2 would be the most finanically sound idea I am sure I could claw back a good sum for all the parts, except the engine, as I think it's fair to say they're in good condition That would mean destroying the car which right now I like the sound of.... Would help me vent my disappointment at the very least, I think I'd actually get some satisfaction out of it tbh...

I know it's a fair rant and it sounds like I am being petty, tbh I doubt many of you will understand as I've never really posted about the faults I've had to over come with the car but honestly this really feels like the straw that broke the camels back for me atm tbh...

[Kingsford G]

No: 3 Andy deffo plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz U can`t brake that car or sell it it`s Damien

[The Flying Moose]

I know how you feel Andy, these 850R's are getting to the point where things are starting to go wrong and where parts and repairs are often coming at a premium.

I cant possibly advise you on whether to strip it or not for the simple reason that I have stripped many a car when a substancial mechanical failure has occured, in all honesty I regret only one of them.

The only sound advice I can give is that if you are having doubts over whether to strip it or not in one word "dont". I know from my experience that I have always regretted something I have had to think twice about.

All that remains... heart or wallet?

[merc85]

Personally i wouldnt break the Car, Its Mint mate and even considering all the mods you have carried out (obviously i dont know every mod you have done) and maintenance i still dont think you would get back the time/effort/money that you have spent/put into her.

So i'd say dont break it.

Return it to standard and sell the moded parts off is a resonible option, for the sake of what a engine would cost id also buy and fit that. then sell a perfect working mint 850r.

Forge it etc etc would be the way i'd go but i'd still be very interested to have that aditional boost guage wired up Just to see what actual boost you are runing. (i know you have had proffesionals) set all that up but i would still be interested to see it on a Additional Gauge, for it to be proved 20.35psi, as i think it's quite a bit more imho.

Please Buddy i cant even emagine how gutted you must feel, i also feel S**tty too mate seeing i was presant at the time.

One thing you shouldn't do is break it,

I really hope you make the right decision, And my offer still stands.

Sorry its a long winded reply mate but i've been thinking about it too.

[mitchyboy01]

Hi Andy. Sounds more like a leaking exhaust manifold gasket to me. Especially if it get quieter when warm as the metal expands and seals the gap. Might be the DP flange gasket also. Mine was making a similar sound to yours. Don't make a rash decision before checking it out. The sound goes on overrun because there is no combustion forcing the exhaust gasses out.

[Jamest5r]

Depend's what you want out of the car mate, your lucky it's a 2nd car like mine is and ive been to hell and back with it and i know about the £XXXXX invested same as you lol, the route i would go down if i was you would be to put some rods in(£380ish) + fitting so i guess your talking a £1500 if you touch nothing else on the engine(im guessing you dont want to do it yourself lol)

Beautiful car though mate and worth keeping imho if you can.

1st dibs if you want to sell as is (before Dean or Pete get in lol)

[Kingsford G]

First I`d get gauge and compre all cyliders stroke.That`ll tell ya if the rod bend or not even if is by 0.1mm depending on gauge.

[t5 pete]

Deffinatly worth reparing

[T5frankie]

if you break it you never loved it, i dont agree with breaking all these t5's and "R"s they are running out guys

[s_cowen]

My scooby sounded like that when I melted a piston, must say I would defiantly try fix it as it would be a shame not to!

[merc85]

if you break it you never loved it, i dont agree with breaking all these t5's and "R"s they are running out guys

I know where your coming from frankie, But trust me mate he loves it, and rightly so.

It's all about the Next project, and how to get there/stay with the same one.

I Broke my Auto t5 and i loved that, but felt better knowing that most of her lives on in the one i have now. Many times i threaten to break mine but then someone always makes me see sense.

[M-R-P]

Think about something else for a few days (if you can) then go to the garage and walk round it. Look at the perfection you spent 4 years working/spending/trying to achieve. Then go sit in it and ask yourself "could I rip this thing apart?"
I don't want to talk you into or out of repairing or breaking the car. I just wouldn't like to see you do something you'll regret later.

[bigrotch]

Look at it this way Andy u either sell it or brake it then what are your planes!!! If it's to start another project then shorelly u must be prepared to spend the same sort of dolla what u spent on Damien... So if that's the case u mite aswel spend a 5th of that amount and get the engine forged then u can get the power u want safely 24/7...... Or if u not gunna get another car... I'll drop my washing and ironing off on the way past ok... Lol just trying to make ya smile at the shxt time mate ok choose the right path for you!!!

[mitchyboy01]

This was mine with a badly leaking manifold and down pipe gasket at idle!! I thought the engine was dead. It sounded fine once the leaks were sorted.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wipv6Sujb-E[/ame]

[t5steve]

andy for what its worth heres my bit
about 8 years ago i had to have surgery on both my hands which left me unable to maintain my beloved anglia when she needed some major chassis welding (think 350 bhp was too much for her).............so i decided to sell her and let someone else get some enjoyment from all my hard work and £xxxxxx.................after advertising the car the phone didn't stop ringing (advertised too cheep methinks)..............i told every caller the car was no longer for sale as i couldn't bear to let someone else have her after all my hard work...................so i decided to break her for spares ..........after several months of removing and selling parts it came time to get rid of the shell.................when the scrap man came and dragged my baby up onto the back of his lorry i had to walk away with tears in my eyes............how could i do this to my baby..................i have regretted this to this day and would give quite a lot to have her back...............the moral of all this waffle is don't do anything you may regret later......take time to think things through..............you will never get your money back that you have invested (but you didn't ever believe you would did you) .................thats just my rant on your issue
if i can help with anything you decide on you know where i am

[dalhousie2008]

Stick in a good engine then rebuild the other as time and money allows

[Wobbly Dave]

I think that if you wanted to keep the car long term then you can either replace the engine with a decent 2nd hand one (not forged) and leave it at that & forge the old one? I have some reservations about using the current one if it is damaged - as we don't know what state the bores are in.

TBH if this engine is as old as you say IMHO if you want to forge one - I'd look for something a bit younger (a late C70 manual engine around 1998) - as you should forge the best possible engine you can find.

Using a straight swap engine will be easier on your pocket & you will still be able to tune it & run decent power.

At the end of the day - if the car gives you pleasure then there shouldn't be any reason not to try to keep it going. Its only money when all said and done. CARpe diem

[viggen]

I ran an 850r auto for two years bent a rod with boost spikes on gear changes
I thrashed it for a week and it went quite!!!!
Changed the oil twice to remove any bits of metal and ran it for a further three years until I sold it.
The car is still running

[Mongo]

My bent rod taped all the time never disapeired id look at lifters if it stops on overrun also i done well over 9000 miles ona bent rod had mo problems at all just changed engine for peice of mind.

[T5rookie]

It's not an exhaust/mani/turbo gasket thats let go....I can assure that after listening to it.

The engine doesn't sound rough/farty at all...

Its a very tinny cricket type noise, fast high pitched tap. Exhaust/gasket issues emmit all sorts of wierd noises but not what we heard on Sunday....

I would forge it mate.

Otherwise its buy something else which will either be expensive from the outset or cheap but then you will spend over the price of rods and labour getting it the way you want it.

I would recommend not rushing...leave it alone for a few weeks(if you can as a second car) then look at it with a fresh mindset. It's a lot of awesome work to undo/let go.

I reckon you can get the labour charge way cheaper than stated. If you can get the engine out with the help of friends/forum members and then have it taken somewhere. It will save a few hundred notes.

If you want help pulling anything apart i'm happy to help if around