Affordable 4 pot brake kit

[T4Rick]

Could we not use the xc90 callipers with sliders?

[Alan M]

No.

[bubba_1986]

Interested as c70 going back on road soon. Been away for too long.

[Wobbly Dave]

Aye wee man tis too long.

[JezF]

Guys,

Just make sure the seals are ok on the calipers as some aren't designed to take a life of salt on public roads.

If you come across Gosdpeed, avoid - the bloke was an absolute nightmare when I bought a 325mm Brembo caliper kit for my old Saab.

Jez

[dalhousie2008]

I saw Porsche calipers sell for 120 the other day, but you've carriers and discs on top so min £400

[Dan850r]

My dads got these in his garage, came off a benetton that schumacher was testing with apparently! 8 pot brembos with carbon disks, he worked for brembo for a while and got these to show to customers

[GregE102]

My dads got these in his garage, came off a benetton that schumacher was testing with apparently! 8 pot brembos with carbon disks, he worked for brembo for a while and got these to show to customers

Sexual is the only thing to say about them!!!!!!!

I will give you £25 for them lol If! he has both calipers and disks! Oh and the bells as well lol

Cheers Greg

[Dan850r]

Sexual is the only thing to say about them!!!!!!!

I will give you £25 for them lol If! he has both calipers and disks! Oh and the bells as well lol

Cheers Greg

Hes got 2 disks that have been used but only 1 caliper, they weigh nothing at all, dont think our cars can get anywhere near enough heat in them to start to work!

[GregE102]

Hes got 2 disks that have been used but only 1 caliper, they weigh nothing at all, dont think our cars can get anywhere near enough heat in them to start to work!

It would be funny if you could fit them to an 850 though!
At the very least it would be fun trying to bring them up to Temp like you say!!! LOL

[Keri-WMS]

I'm just waiting to find out 100% how things work here on VPCUK, but I thought I'd just say Hi in the meantime! :-) Keri (WMS Brakes)

[Wobbly Dave]

Very keen to see what you think about how your brake upgrade will affect the bias.

[Keri-WMS]

:-) Thanks!

I'll need all the numbers (piston diameters etc) before I can be exact about the bias, but here's how we normally do it using the BMW E30 as an example:

Standard E30 with 260mm front discs:


Biggest E30 kit we do, 298.5mm front discs:


So while the disc size has gone up, the piston area is dropped to compensate, and the front torque went from 66.7% to 67.6%.

The aim is normally to increase the front bias slightly, or not at all. Of course the main upsides of a big disc/4-pot setup are increased disc thermal mass, reduced caliper mass, increased cooling area, improved pad control from the 4pot design, improved pedal feel/feedback due to the reduced smaller piston area and the elimination of OEM caliper slider frictional losses.

(...oh, and the far cheaper motorsport format performance pads do help!)

[Wobbly Dave]

Sound like what I have been waiting for. One of the biggest issues for me with the Porsche kit - is that it is ultimately a bodge. AP Kits are lovely but horrendously expensive plus the rotors are not cheap or long lasting.

Given that I am doing far more track days now - I am very interested in this, whilst retaining the fast road reliability & longevity.

What is the planned disk size? 330mm I hope?

[Keri-WMS]

There's a bit of detail for two probable options on page 2 of this thread: http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/showpost...9&postcount=31

I try to get the parts as cross-compatible as possible, so the 302x26 disc would have 298.5mm swept by the pads on the normal T20 caliper, and if there's demand later we could add a retro-fit 298.5x32 (or x20.5) rotor+bell. The trouble with the 330x32 S60 R disc is the larger rotor I would normally match it to is 323x32...and that's too much of a step for the larger T30x caliper.

But in any case the larger kit would be 323x32 or larger, with the bigger caliper. We plan a radial-mount version of the T30x, this would fix the problem!

[GregE102]

Sound like what I have been waiting for. One of the biggest issues for me with the Porsche kit - is that it is ultimately a bodge. AP Kits are lovely but horrendously expensive plus the rotors are not cheap or long lasting.

Given that I am doing far more track days now - I am very interested in this, whilst retaining the fast road reliability & longevity.

What is the planned disk size? 330mm I hope?

Not wanting to start a barney!

But how is the Porsche set up a bodge WD?
I have 928 GTS Big Blacks on the front and use Porsche Cayenne on the rear.
4 pot all round, use DS2500 for road and track and they work all day long!

Cant see how you would class them as a bodge mate?

AP are a joke in the like span of the rota as i think they are 28 mm thick and AP claim they are no good at 27 mm, 1mm is pants!

I look forward to seeing what this company comes up with it will be interesting!!!

Cheers Greg

[Wobbly Dave]

I have DS2500 all round, 5.1 brake fluid & braided lines. Were it not for the quasi-motor sport use on track days, I'd say that was enough. Issue I have is that more often than not - I am finding that the disks are getting warped. I am hoping that the larger rotors will be able to cope a bit better on the track.

Greg - Bodge has derisory overtones - don't take offence - I am not trying to poo-poo anyone elses' setup. Just I don't feel particularly comfortable putting stuff together without fully understanding the affect it has on brake bias.
It seems a bit cobbled together, if you don't mind me saying so - how do we really know what affect the Porsche caliper volume has, based on the standard master cylinder, in terms of piston force & brake bias? I'd be more than happy to eat my words if that has already been done? So on that basis I am not happy to use the Porsche conversion.

I agree with what you say on the AP Kit. I think that the AP kit is well engineered, but it is too race-use focused - I have heard some stories about the rotors being 300 a pair & with very little longevity built in. The initial outlay is also a big turn off.


For many years I've said BBK was a waste of space. I still believe that is the case for fast road applications. The set up I have currently is more than adequate for road use.

I am hoping this kit will offer the security of the formal testing & the value for money that I seek.

[GregE102]

I have DS2500 all round, 5.1 brake fluid & braided lines. Were it not for the quasi-motor sport use on track days, I'd say that was enough. Issue I have is that more often than not - I am finding that the disks are getting warped. I am hoping that the larger rotors will be able to cope a bit better on the track.

Greg - Bodge has derisory overtones - don't take offence - I am not trying to poo-poo anyone elses' setup. Just I don't feel particularly comfortable putting stuff together without fully understanding the affect it has on brake bias.
It seems a bit cobbled together, if you don't mind me saying so - how do we really know what affect the Porsche caliper volume has, based on the standard master cylinder, in terms of piston force & brake bias? I'd be more than happy to eat my words if that has already been done? So on that basis I am not happy to use the Porsche conversion.

I agree with what you say on the AP Kit. I think that the AP kit is well engineered, but it is too race-use focused - I have heard some stories about the rotors being 300 a pair & with very little longevity built in. The initial outlay is also a big turn off.


For many years I've said BBK was a waste of space. I still believe that is the case for fast road applications. The set up I have currently is more than adequate for road use.

I am hoping this kit will offer the security of the formal testing & the value for money that I seek.

No Offence taken WD

I know what you mean though! I have had a search on VS for the thread and some guy over the pond did do a kind of scientific test on the mount of extra pressure required for lager bakes, to prove that our master cylinder where more than enough for the 4 pots all round!

I know Ipd sell the Porker Kit as an upgrade as well and could not see them selling them if our cars could not produce enough pressure?

The true test will come next September time when i fit a new 6 pot kit with with 330mm x 32mm Bells & Rota's we will see then?

Watch this space!

[Wobbly Dave]

IPD sell a lot of crap, some of which I am not proud to say that I even bought. Having anything FS on IPD is no guarantee in my mind.

The name porsche carries a certain willy-waving cache down the put too - something that I am know to indulge in from time to time (namely check out my shiny ££££). I still reckon, despite my iminent anniversary, that I am still mentally about 12.

I watched the hampster blipping the turbo in the V8 yamaha/XC90 Noble crisp packet - & I completely get it.

I am hoping this new brake kit will look good too. Volvo Iron mark logo would be a big plus.

[Keri-WMS]

We can't use the Volvo logo as it's not our trademark I'm afraid!

Here's a 295mm one piece T20 kit in a 16" OEM wheel to give you an idea (all the calipers are black with a white WMS logo):