S60 R Prices Getting Better!

[V8guitar]

Aftershock,

I am more a V70 man than s60! (something about the back of the s60) but thats my personal opinion, & I know alot of people on here like the s60R's.




Mac

Me too but the price difference is so high at the mo...£10k odd...so that would suggest secondhand values will be better. Also I noticed that not many V70R's ( I'm talking P2's here) seem to be manual, mainly geartronic.

Aftershock - if you work in a dealer's, any chance of discount ??

[Volvocano]

I like the S60-R and the V70-R but the main problem other than the price i have with them is that apart from AWD system which is nice and some fancy adjustable suspension from a button in the dash as oopsed to a screw driver and 30 secs work under the bonnet (big deal !) is that there very expensive compared with a T5.

Dont get me wrong id really like one. but if you get a T5 2001 you know it has 250bhp and 240lbt 0-60 = 6.8
but if you get an S60-R with a supposed 300bhp you dont know if your getting that more likley 270hp ! so sure you can pop down to volvo tuning for a tune up and but the engine isnt any different to the T5 other than its a 2.5 rather 2.3 so if you look at the stats for these car in terms of tuning you will see no difference once remapped i.e

Volvo S60 T5 2001 remap = 310bhp + 430 NM
Volvo S60 T5 2005 remap = 340 + 430 NM
Volvo S60 T5-R remap = 340 + 460NM (given that you start with 300hp)

So if you own a 2005/2006 S60 T5 you can have access to 340bhp from just a remap same as T5-R only difference is that the AWD system weights more and eats loads more fuel and costs more to insure and tax and buy.

before peeps start talking AWD traction, just dont plant your foot until rolling its all about control im sure a S60 T5 runing grippy 18" and with the engine weight over the wheels can put most of the 310hp down once rolling. A 4wd car has transmission loses.

look at it this way which would you have: a T5R with 270/280 hp (actual RR`d figures) With 4wd extra weight + transmisson losses (not to mention extra cost and fuel and servicing and insurance etc. etc..)

or a S60 T5 remapped to 310hp or 340hp if 2005+ with traction only a problem if you floor it everywhere at lowe speed or in very wet conditions.

i know its the top range Volvo at the mo but behind the glitz is a very expensive car to run and buy with no real advantaged to my mind over a 2001S60 T5 with 250hp.

rant over. id still like one but id have to be taking home over 40k a year to even think about owning one.

[TangoDeltaSierra3]

Good Point - i think it's down to prestige - or wastefulness of money.

[Volvocano]

Good Point - i think it's down to prestige - or wastefulness of money.

true. but is the volvo really a ultimate prestige car. i thought for 99% of tuners / moders we buy these cars as they are discreet, safety cars on the market, turbo powered with 20v rather than dull 16v and lush interiors with good build and decent stereo + the added advantage they are easy to tune and relativley low insurance for a car that will be undetecatably pushing 340bhp on a grp 16 insurance LOL !

surley the S60 R badge can be bought from somewhere ? or rather a S60R front bumber then colour code. I personally will be trying to get myself a manaul D5 then exhaust remap to 215hp or 2.0 T and remap + exhaust to 215-237hp + both ins grp 14 one 30mpg one 405mpg both avaliable for £7-8k on 2001 plate then spend 2K styling and remap for this look..








bang.. a car that Looks £30,000 goes like a £30,000 car is a safe understated yet plush as you need..

so really for me £25k on a S60R is irelavent.

some people just dont have any imagination you can make something great with the right vision for all the rest there is BMW

[After_Shock]

Volvocano interesting points however I have been their and done that with FWD T5's that are tuned, my previous one running 350bhp was absolutely brilliant and had tonnes of traction in the dry, however when it was damp or wet it was undriveable, it would spin the front wheels in 4th gear at 30mph when not trying so the car was totally unuseable for most of the winter and the year with our weather!

Yeah o.k so the differences between the cars dont seem worth it on paper between a T5 and an R, just as all the mags say and I do agree. However given the choice of a 2year old R for £20grand and a 1 year old T5 for £20grand I would take the R all day long,

O.k so my circumstances are probably different to the next persons, personally I dont care about the fact it weighs more and it will use a bit more fuel and cost more to insure as its not going to be an everyday car, yes the traction is the main argument for them and as I say ive been their and done it and im not going back to FWD.

If they come with 270bhp as you claim why are they obviously faster than a T5 even though they weigh alot more and thats in a straight line?

The styling differences arent much as you say which is a good thing but if you know what you are looking for then they are more than obvious. However their is the other differences such as the 4pot aluminium calipers and 330mm discs allround, about £3grands worth as a minimum? The active suspension, probably a couple of grand, the soft leather interior another £1grand or so plus the unique seats, the unique dials, the other parts trimmed in leather inside.

As a used buy personally I think they are rather good value.

Oh and the engine isnt just a 2.5 compared to a 2.3, all the internals are forged unlike the T5 engine and can take upto about 500bhp without replacing anything, the other thing which annoyed me about the T5 I had.

[dave]

oh boy, where do i start!

S60-R and the V70-R but the main problem other than the price i have with them is that apart from AWD system which is nice and some fancy adjustable suspension from a button in the dash as oopsed to a screw driver and 30 secs work under the bonnet (big deal !) is that there very expensive compared with a T5.

get your facts straight buddy!

the 4c is not just 3 buttons on the dash! lol

"The S60R has the Four-C (Continuously, Controlled, Chassis, Concept) system, which adjusts the level of each shock absorber individually 500 times per second. The damping force of the shock absorber can be changed by 5-15ms depending on the size of the change."

"Some of things that the system monitors are: longitudinal / lateral acceleration and yaw rate; vertical motion of car body (roll, pitch, heave). Vertical position of each wheel and speed of car; steering wheel position and speed of rotation; engine torque, throttle pedal position and engine rpm; and degree of braking."

"Four-C has a couple more tricks up it's sleeve: Dynamic Cornering Control (DCC) and Active Yaw Control (AYC). DCC basically ensures the car rolls less during cornering, whilst AYC reduces understeer and oversteer by firming up the damping to counteract the laws of physics. The car is actually set up to allow some degree of oversteer, to provide more driver enjoyment. "

"The all wheel drive system uses a hydraulic coupling to ensure power is directed to the place needed most. The system works by comparing the rotation of the input and output drive shafts. In this way if the front wheels spin ( the input drive shaft rotates quicker) then the system transfers torque to the rear wheels. The maximum torque that can be sent to the rear is 70%"

"The S60R gets an additional intercooler (positioned under the bumper, behind the enlarged air intake) in order to counter the additional heat cause by the higher charge pressure from the turbo."

"The engine is actually 're-mapped' when you select 'Advanced' chassis mode. In this mode the ignition timing is changed to create more torque, for a more immediate throttle responses. "

"Braking wise the car gets a beefed up system with 330mm ventilated brakes front and rear. This results in good braking performance, that doesn't suffer too much with brake fade. The Brembo developed system uses aluminium four-piston callipers, which in combination to their low weight give good heat dissipation."

"The S60R is powered by a thoroughly modified version of the 208-hp, 2.5-liter turbocharged in-line five that powers the base XC90 and the S60 AWD. "Thoroughly modified" translates to a low-restriction intake, two intercoolers, reground camshafts, reinforced pistons, continuously variable valve timing on both inlet and exhaust sides, and a new cylinder head and exhaust manifold. It also means bye-bye to the low-pressure Mitsubishi turbo and hello to a larger KKK unit that more than doubles peak boost to 14.7 psi. The result is 300 ponies peaking at 5500 rpm and 295 pound-feet of torque from 1950 to 5250 rpm."

so there's a few facts about the S60r/V70r

S60-R with a supposed 300bhp you dont know if your getting that more likley 270hp !

i used to own a s60 t5, the s60r is faster, according to my butt dyno.

the fuel consumption is about same as my s60 t5, insurance is £100 per year more, service costs are the same, awd system is service free.

r a S60 T5 remapped to 310hp or 340hp if 2005+ with traction only a problem if you floor it everywhere at lowe speed or in very wet conditions.

my standard s60 t5, was danagerous on any form of moisture on the road, once i got the s60r, after a few weeks, i soon worked out that it so much better on the road, it feels so grippy in the wet, planted, great on the corners, you need to own both cars before you can make wild claims about the s60 r beening a waste of money!

[After_Shock]

Well put Dave!

V8guitar I can get discount but its only upto a point that the manager will allow at the time, basically depends on the car and how much profits in it after what needs spending on it.

[Volvocano]

ok fair points. but im really talking about the D5 2.4 in my case. i can get a look better than the S60-R with the evolve bodykit as the R`s front bumber is too subtle it looks like its a normal car not a high performance car. imo the evolve kit does make a standard S60 look better than an S60-R.
also the differences as you mentioned about the brakes etc.. and subtle clues.. unfortuantley the S60 i think is a beautufully purposefull car with not much flair the bodykit add that but i wouldnt assume then that anyone will look more than twice shinny drilled/grooved brakes are the last thing for people to look at there more likley looking at the volvo badge.. example is that i drive a Reno Sport Clio (i know big change to the S60) and the new clio dynamics with body coloured bumpers and lower grill to the eveyday eye look so simular, only if your a volvo fanatic will you even care to look at an S60 there everywhere (not as common as BMW or Ford still) but they are everywhere any difference will be a big difference to anyones who bothered.. most will think something looks nice if it looks nice not just because its got 4wd and a bigger engine (Scooby`s are the exception as they are hideous and everyone looks at them even the old ones)

as far as why is the S60-R faster ? well im not disagreeing about that im simply stating that the T5 2005 can be mapped to 340hp surley enough for all but 1% of the population literally 1-2 people in each country who may buy a Volvo, Then buy the 'R', Then Remapp to 340 (exactly the same) 1 of those people may decide to have a one off and tune to 500hp.. come on how many 500hp or even 400hp Volvo S60 R`s are gonna be kicking about ?

im not talking specifics im talking real life people who buy volvo`s (you know the types) dont tune upto 400hp.

the 'day to day' car comments WTF are you doing buying an S60-R as a weekend car or a track/toy car ??? thats wrong.. the entire point is for the S60-R to be used as a day to day car with performance at the ready i.e M3, RS4 (which i may add are avaliable for £25k if you search and certainl the M3 whips an S60-R in most regards)

the S60-R isnt a great handling car, its not a fun handling car, its a Volvo designed Understeer barge with predictable wet/dry handling and sure footed grip. its not a sports car. why not spend £20 on a STi if insurance and fuel is not a problem or a VX220 Turbo or if you search hard enough a MK1 Exige or an old M5 with 400hp and 50:50 RWD built like a tank also... its better to spend money on a weekend car and have a runabout when the weekend car is fun and lairy with real pace i.e ariel atom style then an 850 volvo for work + shopping.

im sure the S60 R is faster in the real world not due to power as 270/280 with trans losses and extra weight will make for 250 at best but as the T5 cant put 250 down properly and the S60R can thats why its faster.. but up top 100mph above there is going to be little to separate them..

anyways im not talking 20k im talking spending only 8k as volvo`s in my mind are bargins at that price when some else has taken every bit of depreciation on a car that will crack 200,000 miles especially when i only own cars for 3years max i have so much choise if i choose one with 80-100,000 miles on the clock as it will only have 130,000 when i sell it. knowone really likes volvo who are under 50 yrs old even my dad prefers the badge of a Merc to a volvo though its blatantly obvious to him that his mates S60 2.0T SE is a better car than his 2002 C270CDI Avantgard in terms of reliability, build specs comfort etc.
the reason why i go on about volvo reliability is because the same guy who owns the S60 used to have a V70 2.5T he ran it from 14k miles to 125k miles without one service or oil change just filled it up and floored it everywhere at law breaking speed up and down the country for 3.5 years solid everyday and NOTHING went wrong with it he was the second owner and still got a £7k trade in price for it. i acknowlage the S60 isnt going to be as relaible as the old volvo`s but there more reliable than the comparably price used mondeo kicking around.

[p fandango]

just looked on the Autotrader & the cheapest 1 was £20k

i was puzzled to see 1 was listed with 17" wheels, anyone know if this was a downgrade option or possibly a mistake by the advertisor

[dave]

just looked on the Autotrader & the cheapest 1 was £20k

i was puzzled to see 1 was listed with 17" wheels, anyone know if this was a downgrade option or possibly a mistake by the advertisor

thats how they come, but at the time of purchase(brand new one), you can opted for the 18inch pegs free of charge

dave

[dave]

Have you read my post, all them facts!

as far as why is the S60-R faster ? well im not disagreeing about that im simply stating that the T5 2005 can be mapped to 340hp surley enough for all but 1% of the population literally 1-2 people in each country who may buy a Volvo, Then buy the 'R', Then Remapp to 340 (exactly the same) 1 of those people may decide to have a one off and tune to 500hp.. come on how many 500hp or even 400hp Volvo S60 R`s are gonna be kicking about ?

the s60t5 with 340, maybe faster, but only in a few places, wet weather, you are doomed!

the 'day to day' car comments WTF are you doing buying an S60-R as a weekend car or a track/toy car ??? thats wrong.. the entire point is for the S60-R to be used as a day to day car with performance at the ready i.e M3, RS4 (which i may add are avaliable for £25k if you search and certainl the M3 whips an S60-R in most regards)

what are you talking about?, i use my s60r for work everyday!

he S60-R isnt a great handling car, its not a fun handling car, its a Volvo designed Understeer barge with predictable wet/dry handling and sure footed grip. its not a sports car. why not spend £20 on a STi if insurance and fuel is not a problem or a VX220 Turbo or if you search hard enough a MK1 Exige or an old M5 with 400hp and 50:50 RWD built like a tank also... its better to spend money on a weekend car and have a runabout when the weekend car is fun and lairy with real pace i.e ariel atom style then an 850 volvo for work + shopping.

you are so wrong, its funny, why do carry on with all this Bulls**t.

do you own one?
have you looked up the facts?

theres a mag called "car & driver", reviews lots of cars.

they do latural g tests, etc, the s60r beat the bmw m3 for latural grip, which helps a car go round corners quicker!

yes, older versions of volvo's may understeer, etc

but my s60r doesn't handle like an old volvo, if you had read my post, you would have worked out that the 4c chassis, awd helps to improve the s60r's handling, quote from my old post

"Four-C has a couple more tricks up it's sleeve: Dynamic Cornering Control (DCC) and Active Yaw Control (AYC). DCC basically ensures the car rolls less during cornering, whilst AYC reduces understeer and oversteer by firming up the damping to counteract the laws of physics. The car is actually set up to allow some degree of oversteer, to provide more driver enjoyment. "

can you read the last bit of the quote, "set up to allow some degree of oversteer", which means alot less understeer and more fun!

this is true, cos ive had my car oversteer quite a few times now on wet roundabouts, my old s60t5, never oversteered, allways understeered.

the s60r is light years ahead in handling compared to anyother volvo's, afraid to say!

have you driven a s60r for a couple of weeks?

im sure the S60 R is faster in the real world not due to power as 270/280 with trans losses and extra weight will make for 250 at best but as the T5 cant put 250 down properly and the S60R can thats why its faster.. but up top 100mph above there is going to be little to separate them..

For god sake man, the s60r has 300bhp, ive already explained about trans losses are not as bad as you are making out

i tell wot, i will take my car to a rolling road, to proof it has 300bhp, just to shut you up, lol

and this above 100 thing, i dont care that much if the t5 can beat me above l 100, cos timed you spun your wheels to 100, i be at 150 and long gone, and in reality i would have stopped by 80/90 anyway.

dave

[p fandango]

i was puzzled to see 1 was listed with 17" wheels, anyone know if this was a downgrade option or possibly a mistake by the advertisor

thats how they come, but at the time of purchase(brand new one), you can opted for the 18inch pegs free of charge

cheers Dave, you learn something new everyday

but who would turn down an extra inch for free

[After_Shock]

Pedro people turn them down for ride comfort! We have just sold one at work and hes trading an S60 R in with 18's and buying a new one with 17's because of the bumpy ride!

[p fandango]

oh right, i thought they could have sorted something out thru the 4c's if it was that much of a problem

[After_Shock]

Volvocano were do I start, were do I start!

Firstly as I say everyones circumstances are different, a D5 is your choice and their great engines/cars and an R is my choice, however as thats my choice im not going to slag off your choice of a D5 car as I respect that descision, basically those cars arent for me, if they were it would be well up the list to choose from.

You can make an S60 look better than an R by putting an Evolve bodykit on? O.k its a nice kit and yeah I would consider one, however what you are doing is making a Volvo look like a modified Volvo and obviously one, also the cost of importing the kit and getting it fitted and sprayed, I would say 3grand ish, sort of blows your value for money argument, plus the wheels and a slight lowering of suspension and a different exhaust, not really much cheaper than buying an R is it. O.k minor difference like brakes, MINOR! An R will stop better than any other Volvo all day long, and they dont have fancy drilled discs as you say, their not a styling option their a performance option which would help handling for one oh and they weigh less.

Ever heard the term Q car, you know Audi S4, RS6, BM M5 style cars, that are obviously something but dont shout about it? Hence why the Volvo doesnt shout about what it is as it doesnt need to. If Volvo wanted to make it shout and be obvious it would have done but that wouldnt have been the point as it wouldnt have appealed. Park an R next to a normal S60 and it looks far from normal! Theirs also the element of surprise, when I had my C70 no one knew what it was and they werent happy when I beat them, which I like that effect!

Yeah so what a T5 can be tuned to 340bhp, thats only the very latest cars and as far as I know they still use a different turbo, at 340bhp this is literally on the limits of the engines reliability, were an R engine is hardly being pushed. O.k so not many would go anywhere near the 500bhp but thats not the point, its the fact it can take it reliably. Theirs also 3 kits out their now that take the R over 400bhp easily.

Also my original point of 340bhp in a FWD car isnt hugely useable were the R can take it, and still be driveable.

Who said im buying one as a weekend or track toy! I get a company car which I have to take to work so their would be no point at all in using an R to go to work in would their? Again different situation to you.

Feel free to your opinions but please read what other people say first and dont make stupid comments like the R only has 270bhp and its an understeery barge! Again I respect your decision on a D5 good car, but their not my style hence why their isnt one on my shopping list.

[After_Shock]

Pedro its not a problem as such just peoples personal preferences, to me it wouldnt be a problem if they ran on 19's or 20's!

[Volvocano]

the weekend comment was because someone mentioned that they werent using it as a day to day car.

whats wrong with modified volvo`s ? i think your overestimating the cost of such kits. i personally would prefer the look of a Modified S60 to a stock S60 with its plaggy bumpers and tiny mouth but thats just me. maybe calling the R an understeer barge was too much ok its just a barge

i dont appreciate my comments being described as bull££££ but i guess my view are polar to most on here i choose the volvo as a car to lighten and tune up of course this is madness but its what i want to do.
theres a really cool website with an S60 T5 with mods on. imo on the finished pictures it looks better than any other previos volvo including the 'R' there is a side by side shot of the R next to it and it looks nicer.

TBH im into modding not high performance cornering the volvo is a great platform to start with and an unusual choice. i appologies if i have been to flipant with my remarks or inacurate


anyways on a more positive note heres what i plan..



buy a black s60 2.0T or 2.4D for 7K as the pic above its the standard car looking a bit mondeo like.

then do this side skirt, bumper, rear apron + colour code + some wheels maybe and 30mm springs (cost around 2.5K)



thats exaclty the same car BTW.


there you have it a car thats plush, safe well built and looks awesome imo of course for under £10k and for my money please dont take offence but for everyone who isnt into cars or are but not volvo`s im 99% sure this would receive more glances than an 'R'. it looks better than a BMW or a merc to my eyes. sure the R is better peformance but if can muster the D5 to 210-215hp and 330lbft with 45 mpg and grp 14 insurance ive save myself a hell of a lot of money for an exellent car that nobody usually chooses or looks at below 50yrs old.. hence depreciation

[dave]

i dont appreciate my comments being described as bull££££ but i guess my view are polar to most on here i choose the volvo as a car to lighten and tune up of course this is madness but its what i want to do.

i was just pointing that your barge handling points were wrong.

everyone has there own point of view, thats fine, but when it is clearly misguided points been made, the facts have to be laid down, lol

dave

ps. your pics links arent working

[dave]

oh right, i thought they could have sorted something out thru the 4c's if it was that much of a problem

the 4c isnt really designed to make the ride more comforty on the road, its design to make a volvo handle better and lots of techie stuff

dave

[Volvocano]

ok this should work..

before



after



same car