New Timing Belt Woes

[BruceT]

Hello,

This is a query with the wifes 2000 Phase 2 Volvo V70 T5 250hp.

Last week the wife took the car to the local garage to have to Timing belt replaced. While in we had the water pump replaced, tensioners & aux belt.

However, a few days later she mentioned to me a rattle noise when the engine is cold etc. I didnt think much of it, untill I heard it. It *sounds* metalic-like - almost like exhaust heatshield rattle or something.

However, the exhaust is fine and wasnt making this noise before the timing belt and associated bits where removed/replaced.

Now today, I had a proper look and when the engine is idleing the engine vibrates A LOT. As soon as the revs pick up above 1000rpm it smooths out. (This is stationary, not in gear)

The vibratons on idle are making the entire car shake, in particular the steering wheel etc and interior trim etc. (The car does have a Poly top mount) but then so does my 850 and I have dont see my engine in my 850 vibrate like this or interior vibrations as bad as this!!

My question is, if the when the timing belt was done the inlet or exhaust cam moved a tooth or so could this be making the idle very lumpy and the engine vibrate?

Like I say, as soon as the revs are above 1000rpm it smooths out.

I understand ME7 is 'clever' etc, but can a ME7 engine not adjust the timing on idle? But as soon as the revs pick up, can the ME7 alter the timing to compensate?

Any help appreciated, car is booked back in with the garage next week, just wanted some help as to whether we should be driving it?

[BruceT]

I unplugged the maf to see if that would smooth the idle out, but made no difference

[BruceT]

Took a video of the cold start noise.

Vibrations/rough running not immediately there as the engine is cold and had a 1000rpm idle where it is smooth.

Once warm, the thing shakes badly at idle!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDe1UPctO2E[/ame]

[cornclose]

Timing belt not put on right/few teeth out ?

[Chopster]

The VVT is a PITA if you don't know what you're doing... You need someone who specialises or really knows their way around Volvo's to set it up

[BruceT]

Timing belt not put on right/few teeth out ?

That's my initial thoughts - it's booked back in to be looked at on Wednesday.

Think I'll stop the wife driving it just incase.

[BruceT]

The VVT is a PITA if you don't know what you're doing... You need someone who specialises or really knows their way around Volvo's to set it up

Hopefully my local garage can remedy it or I can find someone and bill it back to them!

[BruceT]

We have just got back in from the garage.

The wife dropped the car off on Wednesday night with the fault of a rattle on cold start, vibrating ide - Possible timing is set wrong.

She rang after lunch and they advised they have had 3 techs on the car and stripped down and checked and couldnt find anything wrong. Timing was apparantly correct and they could not hear the rattle (as per my video).

I went with the wife to collect the car tonight and was advise of the above information and I said how about you listen to the video on my iPhone and then come listen to the car as its been stood a while so should make the noise.

One of the techs (refered as here in as tech1) listened to my video and said it sounds like lifters, like its low on oil at startup. I also mentioned if the VVT Pulley had been set correct?

We then went outside the wife started the car up. Typically the car idled well and didnt make the noise, apart from the usual injector pulses.

He sad it sounds tappety and what oil was in there. I said 10W40 Semi-Syn. Tech1 sighed and said it should really have fully syn and be 5w30 or 5w40 fully.

I said, well with its main dealer service history its always had 10w40 semi throughout its life including the last service. Tech1 then assured me all their cars according to Autodata are recommended fully syn 5w30/5w40. He then said 'It is a 850?' To which I said no, a V70!!!

Then he said they dont mess with VVT and continued to talk about something to do with Rovers! I think he didnt understand there is a VVT PULLEY which needs to be set correct? He said they dont touch the VVT! Maybe they should touch the VVT PULLEY...????

He then said if the timing was out it would popping and banging all the time as it would retarding/advancing all over the place and at idle the engine would be shaken out the frame!

I then asked if the car had hydraulic or solid tappets? He said Hydraulic but would have to check autodata! So he was diagnosing my car with lifter trouble without even knowing what type they where?

Off we went back inside and I advised if they had set the VVT Pulley and was told they use Autodata and follow their instructions.

I advised the VVT PULLEY needs to be set the reply was 'We use the Autodata and follow their instructions'.

So, we have agreed for them to fully service the car for £160 and we will take it from there as we needed the car servicing anyway.

Time will tell tomorrow when we collect.

Things like 'It is an 850 isnt it'? Dont exactly inspire confidence and 'We dont touch the VVT' When as far as I have read the P2 ME7 has a VVT PULLEY which NEEDS to be set correctly?

Hmmm.

[mark_eire]

Nightmare, I changed the belt myself when i had the engine out and the tiniest little movement can jump a tooth and the timing wont be correct, there suppose to use a cam locking tool but whether they did or not who knows, the video you posted up doesnt sound too healthy but the guys probably right if it was out a tooth or 2 it would pop and bang thru the inlet, as far as i know the ecu adjusts the ignition timing automatically

[mark_eire]

Could that noise in the video be the belt rubbing off the cover? Hard to really tell!!

[LeeT5]

firstly, your video just says "Video private" when clicking play.

Secondly, VVT is a PITA and you DO have to know what your doing full stop. It's all well and good the mechanic saying they followed Autodata's instructions, but you said yourself that they didn't know that it was a V70. However, in their defence a V70 T5 2002 should be running on Fully synthetic and not semi-synthetic 10w/40. Oil can make a big differerence to VVT but your problem started since timing belt fitment and not before. In my experience you need to tread carefully. Do not accept what they say as gospel. I would insist that the car is looked at by an independant ie Volvo/ Volvo specialist and any wrong doing on there part will incur a full refund. They cannot refuse AND you must tell them that you will go to Trading standards if your wishes are not met. You are the customer and You have the right to take your car to whom ever you like, especially if a garage has let you down and your not happy with they way that they are proceding in a forwards direction. Do not let the garage dig themselves deeper by saying they will sort it and getting a "mate" next door to have a look. If you do not trust their diagnosis then you have the right to a second opinion. They must oblige you. If they were right all along then you will of course need to apologise in writing and possibly incur any costs that the garage may have lost out on due to you not allowing them to rectify the fault. It's a tough nut to crack and i really do hope you make the right decision and get your car sorted.

It is crucial that the car has it's DTCs interrogated. It is very likely that they knocked a sensor, broke wiring or even didn't plug something in properly. If so, then reading the fault codes will show the faulty or suspect item causing the rought running. it's no good just saying "it could be this and it could be that".

keep us all posted and let us know who the garage is so we know not to go there. I wouldn't let them anywhere near my car....even if they are right!

Once the trust is broken, find another garage.

Good Luck!

[LeeT5]

Nightmare, I changed the belt myself when i had the engine out and the tiniest little movement can jump a tooth and the timing wont be correct, there suppose to use a cam locking tool but whether they did or not who knows, the video you posted up doesnt sound too healthy but the guys probably right if it was out a tooth or 2 it would pop and bang thru the inlet, as far as i know the ecu adjusts the ignition timing automatically

Yes it does, but timing on this car is also governed by oil temp, coolant temp, MAF readings, air temp, throttle position, VVT, cam sensor, O2 sensors....etc.

[Barnsley-Bill]

I can tell you stright away what your problem is............VVT timing not set right, and the instrutions in vadis are very miss leading about how to set up the VVT pulley.

[LeeT5]

I can tell you stright away what your problem is............VVT timing not set right, and the instrutions in vadis are very miss leading about how to set up the VVT pulley.

I would be inclined to agree. Fact is, your car ran fine before the belt was changed and now it doesn't. You don't have to be the Arch Bishop of Canterbury to work out that it must be something the garage have done or not done correctly.

Get them to fix it and never go back.

I will only let a Dealer or Volvo Tech (specialist) change the belt on my car.