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Thread: 280 310 remap

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    Quote Originally Posted by p fandango View Post
    £655 (£500 & £155 for the softloader LINK)
    Like I said I didnt pay that price but at the end of the day you get what you pay for these days .

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    I've been been watching this whole thread from the sidelines and it has amused me no end

    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    And that is your choice that everyone is entitled to make.
    Agreed, when I decided to remap my D5 I took my time to read as much as possible on people's experiences up to that point in time. That research on VOC, VPC, T5D5 and a few other forums took me down the MTE road and I have no regrets. I have said this somewhere else but you do your research and make your choice. Like most of lifes decisions.

    Anyway, I feel I must make comment here, not to defend any one remap but just to level the playing field so to speak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    According to a member on here the price of a MTE generic remap from Kalmar Union with the Softloader product will be £600 soon.

    Glad you did not pay that, as it is day light robbery!
    Quote Originally Posted by p fandango View Post
    £655 (£500 & £155 for the softloader LINK)
    The link states the following two pieces of information:

    "£435 including VAT plus refundable deposit for the loan of the softloader"
    and
    "However, with VAT going up and the poor showing of the pound against the Krona I would expect to see the price in all nearer to £500 in the New Year.

    I would ask the question what is the comparable price of any other remap going to be post January when VAT goes up, what is the price of the equivalent "loader" used to put the map on (the softloader is a loanable tool against a refundable deposit remember*) and what could be the effect on the cost of other European remaps if the Euro goes down the pan (as is being rumored by the tabloids at the moment given the state of certain European states and the monetary fund)?

    *- actually is there any other ramp that does have a loanable loader or do they all require a trip to an agent for the process?

    I think I know most of the answers but it would be nice to see all the information in one place so that people can compare on an "apples with apples" basis (well at least as far as the prices and hardware go).

    The current RICA site shows €581.25 EUR + VAT for cars over 3 years old for the V70 P2 EUIII D5 remap (that's £490 + VAT according to the exchange rates I can see at the moment) plus €100.00 EUR + VAT (£84) for the iSoftloader. A total of £574 +VAT.

    That's a current total of £674
    That is on a like for like basis if you decided to buy the iSoftloader. So actually looking more expensive than MTE
    And the petrol prices are the same for a similar stage of map.
    Last edited by RobbieH; Friday 26th November 2010 at 10:47.

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    RICA prices in the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieH View Post
    The current RICA site shows €581.25 EUR + VAT for cars over 3 years old for the V70 P2 EUIII D5 remap (that's £490 + VAT according to the exchange rates I can see at the moment) plus €100.00 EUR + VAT (£84) for the iSoftloader. A total of £574 +VAT.

    That's a current total of £674
    Robbie,

    RICA have country specific price lists. For the UK you need to visit www.rica-uk.com to see prices in GBP, or simply select the correct country when viewing the web site.

    The price for a Euro 3 D5 like yours is £440.63 inc VAT for the Stage 1 remap (198 hp / 435 Nm), and the iSoftloader is optional at £99.88 inc VAT.

    http://www.rica-uk.com/viewcar.aspx?vehicle=1762

    These country specific RICA prices do not fluctuate with the Euro exchange rate.
    Last edited by turbo-tuner; Friday 26th November 2010 at 11:26.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieH View Post


    The link states the following two pieces of information:

    "£435 including VAT plus refundable deposit for the loan of the softloader"
    and
    "However, with VAT going up and the poor showing of the pound against the Krona I would expect to see the price in all nearer to £500 in the New Year.

    .

    Good post, Just to add, a remap is a piece of software and not a product, it has no import costs or delivery costs, so why does the price alter depending on the Euro or Krona, we are not talking about a physical product here. I do not think I have ever come across such nonsense in the software tuning world.

    You set your price according to the U.K Market, it is after all for sale by it's distributor in the U.K to members of the U.K only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    Just to add, a remap is a piece of software and not a product, it has no import costs or delivery costs
    There are always import costs associated with software, whether it's tuning software or normal computer software available as electronic downloads.

    1. The software manufacturer sells to the distributor.
    2. The distributor then resells to the end user.

    Whether it's a service or a product being imported, there is always a cost associated with it. That's how manufacturers and service providers generate their profit.
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    So going off the declared prices (for the EUIII D5 as an example map) at the moment we have (in good ol' GBP or £):

    Rica (MTE)
    Base price map: 375.00 (370.21)
    VAT (17.5%): 65.63 (64.79)
    Total: 440.63 (435.00)

    VAT (20%): 75.00 (74.04)
    Total 450.00 (444.25)

    "Softloader"
    Base price: 85.00 (131.91)
    VAT (17.5%): 14.88 (23.09)
    Total: 99.88 (155.00)

    VAT (20%): 17.00 (26.38)
    Total: 102.00 (158.29)

    So come Jan 2011, it'll be £552.00 for Rica and £602.54 for MTE. An 8% difference.
    On that basis the use of the expression "daylight robbery" is a little uncalled for.


    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    Good post, Just to add, a remap is a piece of software and not a product, it has no import costs or delivery costs, so why does the price alter depending on the Euro or Krona, we are not talking about a physical product here. I do not think I have ever come across such nonsense in the software tuning world.

    You set your price according to the U.K Market, it is after all for sale by it's distributor in the U.K to members of the U.K only.
    Nonsense in software world; well maybe not related to tuning, but have you checked the cost of downloadable PC software say in the US vs UK. Adobe is a prime example. Exchange rates are only only one of several arguments used in their "defence" of such pricing strategies.

    Saying that, to an extent, I can understand why prices do vary with exchange rates. At the end of the day someone still has to do some work in the first place to design and test the (software) routines for the remapping and even ongoing in each case as, at least as far as my understanding goes, each map is specific to the car at the time the ECU is read so they are bespoke to a certain degree. Now that work is paid for in the local currency and if that is not is not at a 1:1 ratio with GBP then why should the price not vary to account for that? That's basic international economics. If you are saying that the price should not vary then that would seem to indicate that the local distibutor is making a very healthy profit to be able disregard such movements.

    Edit: looks like Adam has beaten me to it.

    Added edit: anyone know how to do tabulate numbers. Tabs and spacing don't seem to work so I had to put the MTE numbers in brackets to differeniate them from the Rica numbers. PM me if neccessary to stop this thread going off at yet another tangent .
    Last edited by RobbieH; Friday 26th November 2010 at 13:01.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieH View Post
    So going off the declared prices (for the EUIII D5 as an example map) at the moment we have (in good ol' GBP or £):

    Rica (MTE)
    Base price map: 375.00 (370.21)
    VAT (17.5%): 65.63 (64.79)
    Total: 440.63 (435.00)

    VAT (20%): 75.00 (74.04)
    Total 450.00 (444.25)

    "Softloader"
    Base price: 85.00 (131.91)
    VAT (17.5%): 14.88 (23.09)
    Total: 99.88 (155.00)

    VAT (20%): 17.00 (26.38)
    Total: 102.00 (158.29)

    So come Jan 2011, it'll be £552.00 for Rica and £602.54 for MTE. An 8% difference.
    On that basis the use of the expression "daylight robbery" is a little uncalled for.


    Nonsense in software world; well maybe not related to tuning, but have you checked the cost of downloadable PC software say in the US vs UK. Adobe is a prime example. Exchange rates are only only one of several arguments used in their "defence" of such pricing strategies.

    Saying that, to an extent, I can understand why prices do vary with exchange rates. At the end of the day someone still has to do some work in the first place to design and test the (software) routines for the remapping and even ongoing in each case as, at least as far as my understanding goes, each map is specific to the car at the time the ECU is read so they are bespoke to a certain degree. Now that work is paid for in the local currency and if that is not is not at a 1:1 ratio with GBP then why should the price not vary to account for that? That's basic international economics. If you are saying that the price should not vary then that would seem to indicate that the local distibutor is making a very healthy profit to be able disregard such movements.
    .
    BUT and a very big but, RICA has many agents in the U.K each one on my understanding, buys the map at a set price and sells on with some profit, so there are varying degrees of negotiating that can take place. MTE unfortunately have not got there U.K marketing correct and only have one outlet that we cannot even call a garage or tuning house. HLM, we know from various posts offer very fair prices in regards to the car's age and how long the map takes to develop etc.

    Yes there are many generic maps, a car's ecu is read so the revised software can be changed and then reloaded. Have a look around at the BMW, VAG, Vauxhall and Ford tuning world, lots of generic maps, they work out cheaper for the purchaser as the development work has been completed many moons ago and the map has been tested over and over again.

    p.s we are talking about tuning software and not PC software.

    But it goes back to the age old saying and as you have done, do your own research and pick which is right for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    BUT and a very big but, RICA has many agents in the U.K each one on my understanding, buys the map at a set price and sells on with some profit, so there are varying degrees of negotiating that can take place. MTE unfortunately have not got there U.K marketing correct and only have one outlet that we cannot even call a garage or tuning house. HLM, we know from various posts offer very fair prices in regards to the car's age and how long the map takes to develop etc.

    Yes there are many generic maps, a car's ecu is read so the revised software can be changed and then reloaded. Have a look around at the BMW, VAG, Vauxhall and Ford tuning world, lots of generic maps, they work out cheaper for the purchaser as the development work has been completed many moons ago and the map has been tested over and over again.

    p.s we are talking about tuning software and not PC software.

    But it goes back to the age old saying and as you have done, do your own research and pick which is right for you.
    Hi,

    We have been the UK Distributors for Autotech Motorsport (Sweden) for nearly 2 years now and have very sensible pricing for our unrivalled ECM Upgrade on the E3 D5's and ME7 T5's at £350 including VAT. Within this price you also get a Before and After Dyno Run (where possible) and a Diagnostic Check. If you want our APC Unit (Handheld programme Carrier) which has many advantages over Softloaders is a further £235 inc.
    So we are all about the same price is you are looking for a Tune with APC/Softloader.
    But if you just want a really good Swedish Tune our Autotech Motorsport Software is by far the best value

    Regards,
    Hamish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    Read below what a £600 minimum custom MTE remap can do. Google MTE's work and you will find just as many problems as there has been with RICA or HLM. Part of tuning i'm afraid.

    It seems the highest regarded Volvo software at the moment across the Swedish and US boards is the ATM tune, http://www.atechmotor.com/ but no doubt, they have probably 'ruined' a customers car too, that's tuning!

    It has been said before the Volvo tuning market is TINY, so anything that goes wrong seems to hang around like a bad smell. To the OP, try and do as much of your own research, try and go out in cars that have been modified by said tuners, speak directly to the tuning houses that offer services for Volvo's and not just the ones banded about here, there are more out there. Cost is a big issue too, if you are happy spending £600 on a 2k car then so be it, but I am sure you can get a similar quality generic remap for £250 or under.

    The OP its worth also sticking to forums like this one that are not biased towards one particular tuner or so called tuner.......

    What ever you do make sure first of all the car is ready for an upgrade a so called stage 0 is a good place to start but a good check over by a proper business one with proper ramps and knowledge of these cars is a good start good luck..

    Russ
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT MECHANICS View Post
    The OP its worth also sticking to forums like this one that are not biased towards one particular tuner or so called tuner.......

    What ever you do make sure first of all the car is ready for an upgrade a so called stage 0 is a good place to start but a good check over by a proper business one with proper ramps and knowledge of these cars is a good start good luck..

    Russ
    You mean forums like this, that will blow smoke up your ass, tell you how wondeful you are, and has no members who knowledge far exceeds your own, and not give you any negative comments so you don't pack up your toys and leave? And forums that you think you have some say in because you pay to advertise there?

    'So Called Tuner' - You are obviously referring to Don @ Kalmar Union. Grow some balls and say what you mean Russ, rather than sly, snide comments, that you think are clever. I could go on for pages of how much of a decent bloke Don is, especially when compared to the likes of you.

    'Proper Business With Proper Ramps blah blah' - Here you go again. Grow a set, and say what you mean Russ. You're clearly having a sly dig, once again, at my 'Chosen Mechanic' (IIRC that's how you referred to Tim Williams one of the last times we spoke). As above I could go on for hours about how much more of a genuine, helpful, selfless, knowledgable person Tim is. I used your services for a couple of years Russ, and believe me you are light years behind Tim when it comes to 'knowledge of these cars' as you say. If you would like me to illaberate I shall?

    You really are quite pathetic at times.

    Glad to see that things at RTMechanics are going well, and you've expanded your specialitie's into BMW's & Mini's (Thanks for the leaflet by the way). That seems like a sound business move. I suspect that generally speaking BMW drivers have more money to spend than lowley Volvo owners. Is the Volvo money drying up?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT MECHANICS View Post
    The OP its worth also sticking to forums like this one that are not biased towards one particular tuner or so called tuner.......

    What ever you do make sure first of all the car is ready for an upgrade a so called stage 0 is a good place to start but a good check over by a proper business one with proper ramps and knowledge of these cars is a good start good luck..

    Russ
    Actually, I'm (not) sorry to say to say that this forum was one that was fairly decisive in my direction regarding my choice of remap.

    Don't let age define you. It's a number that's all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S70T5Chris View Post
    You mean forums like this, that will blow smoke up your ass, tell you how wondeful you are, and has no members who knowledge far exceeds your own, and not give you any negative comments so you don't pack up your toys and leave?
    It's forums like this Christopher, that have given you and many others of late a chance to express thier views openly and honestly without censorship. I have personally mediated for you to be able to do so as you may recall.
    In the past this site was one sided like T5D5 has become. No more, sorry. Its open, fair and only the utter drivel that some of the people posted lately that had nothing to do with the thread was removed. Openly removed.
    Most members here are to the point, recently someone was ripped apart for thier ebay advert when they came here trying to be clever, so all of that you just said, it total tosh mate.
    Get off your high horse, go to VT, get it sorted then go play in your own yard, and dont come here and insult this site when the others NOW are far worse!
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    is it my imagination but chris seems to be at the centre of every arguement on here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin View Post
    It's forums like this Christopher, that have given you and many others of late a chance to express thier views openly and honestly without censorship. I have personally mediated for you to be able to do so as you may recall.
    In the past this site was one sided like T5D5 has become. No more, sorry. Its open, fair and only the utter drivel that some of the people posted lately that had nothing to do with the thread was removed. Openly removed.
    Most members here are to the point, recently someone was ripped apart for thier ebay advert when they came here trying to be clever, so all of that you just said, it total tosh mate.
    Get off your high horse, go to VT, get it sorted then go play in your own yard, and dont come here and insult this site when the others NOW are far worse!
    That statement was not made to insult this forum. IMO it is how Russ see's this particular forum, and other forums he is a member of (of which there are many!). If it came across as a dig at VPC then I appologise that wasn't my intenetion in that post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by leighkaicraigmia View Post
    is it my imagination but chris seems to be at the centre of every arguement on here?
    How so? I was the first person to correclty answer the OP's original question in this thread. And from then on I've pretty much kept out of it (apart from Pedro trying to have a dig as usual), when I could have 'got involved', expecially with the BRUCET vs TIM thing.

    I don't say things to please people. I don't say things becuase I think people will like it. I say what I think, and I mean what I say. If you don't like it, tough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin View Post
    Get off your high horse, go to VT, get it sorted then go play in your own yard, and dont come here and insult this site when the others NOW are far worse!
    What's Volvo Tuning got to do with my post directed to Russ?
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    It was meant as, go and sort the issues that you have, with whomever. Like you said you say what you think. I respect that as i do. Reading it back again, it doesnt really fit, so apologies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by S70T5Chris View Post
    How so? I was the first person to correclty answer the OP's original question in this thread. And from then on I've pretty much kept out of it (apart from Pedro trying to have a dig as usual), when I could have 'got involved', expecially with the BRUCET vs TIM thing.

    I don't say things to please people. I don't say things becuase I think people will like it. I say what I think, and I mean what I say. If you don't like it, tough.
    everytime there is an argument on here even if you had nothing to do with the OP you are guaranteed to be in it near the end voicing your opinions

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    Quote Originally Posted by leighkaicraigmia View Post
    everytime there is an argument on here even if you had nothing to do with the OP you are guaranteed to be in it near the end voicing your opinions
    Do you really want to do this?!
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    Quote Originally Posted by S70T5Chris View Post
    Do you really want to do this?!
    No, lol. Can we agree the thread has served its best and close it now, any objections?
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