Will I have enough to make 300bhp?

[Rnash2002]

i was just sayin it can be done lads

[scr8pdo]

300hp or not, it will go really well. Surely the most important factor?

I wouldnt be too concerned about actual BHP figures and concentrate more on torque figures

[T4_Al]

...Thanks guys, respected opinions so it looks like its a possibility.

BTW, love the can of worms

[claymore]

Ohh, I see, let's all beat claymore at the dyno day.......lol

[S70T5Chris]

This is my RR printout from powerstations Maha dyno, widely regarded as the best and most accurate dynos (thats an argument for another day!)

The car had an ME7 16t (ported), green injectors, TWR throttle body, Ported ME7 exhaust manifold, THS Intercooler/Reverse pipework, 3" Downpipe/race cat, Miltek 2.5" cat-back, Custom MTE remap, peaking at about 1.35bar.

I think that was it engine why's. It was a cold wintery day, so that probably helped. But without a doubt it was around a genuine 300bhp. You could tell that just by some of the cars it would keep up with/beat on the road.



It produced an awesome amount of torque. The standard T5 clutch couldn't cope with it. I had to change to a SM flywheel & 850R clutch, which has been fine since, even with the K24.

[t5_monkey]

This is my RR printout from powerstations Maha dyno, widely regarded as the best and most accurate dynos (thats an argument for another day!)

The car had an ME7 16t (ported), green injectors, TWR throttle body, Ported ME7 exhaust manifold, THS Intercooler/Reverse pipework, 3" Downpipe/race cat, Miltek 2.5" cat-back, Custom MTE remap, peaking at about 1.35bar.

I think that was it engine why's. It was a cold wintery day, so that probably helped. But without a doubt it was around a genuine 300bhp. You could tell that just by some of the cars it would keep up with/beat on the road.



It produced an awesome amount of torque. The standard T5 clutch couldn't cope with it. I had to change to a SM flywheel & 850R clutch, which has been fine since, even with the K24.

100bhp drag - seems like a lot.

Mines 228 bhp at the wheels but isn't 300 @ the crank

What was your terminal speed on the 1/4 mile running that config?

[Rnash2002]

This is my RR printout from powerstations Maha dyno, widely regarded as the best and most accurate dynos (thats an argument for another day!)

The car had an ME7 16t (ported), green injectors, TWR throttle body, Ported ME7 exhaust manifold, THS Intercooler/Reverse pipework, 3" Downpipe/race cat, Miltek 2.5" cat-back, Custom MTE remap, peaking at about 1.35bar.

I think that was it engine why's. It was a cold wintery day, so that probably helped. But without a doubt it was around a genuine 300bhp. You could tell that just by some of the cars it would keep up with/beat on the road.



It produced an awesome amount of torque. The standard T5 clutch couldn't cope with it. I had to change to a SM flywheel & 850R clutch, which has been fine since, even with the K24.

So how does the k24 compare to it?

[T4_Al]

Thanks for the info T5Chris. I may have to invest in a RIP kit and a bigger intercooler to bring those charge temps down then.

[S70T5Chris]

100bhp drag - seems like a lot.

Mines 228 bhp at the wheels but isn't 300 @ the crank

What was your terminal speed on the 1/4 mile running that config?

Never done 1/4 mile so couldn't tell you mate. Taking the car on a track is more my thing, but I will do a 1/4 mile one day just to see what it can do. Although it's not this spec now.

[S70T5Chris]

So how does the k24 compare to it?

The K24 is insane in comparison. Haven't had it on a RR yet tho. However when having the K24 fitted I also had Water Injection, Ported/polioshed cylinder head, N/A cams and a few other bits and pieces. At a guess it's probably around 350bhp give or take.

[RobbieH]

This may help

me7 manifold
angledl flange 15g
N/A cams
Rica 302

This was from the green machine on this thread http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/5110-dy...pictures-only/

Specifically the car in question:
http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/5110-dy...post__p__59580

pics 9 &10

and the dyno plot:
http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/5110-dy...post__p__59675

2nd plot

[Rnash2002]

This may help

me7 manifold
angledl flange 15g
N/A cams
Rica 302

This was from the green machine on this thread http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/5110-dy...pictures-only/

Specifically the car in question:
http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/5110-dy...post__p__59580

pics 9 &10

and the dyno plot:
http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/5110-dy...post__p__59675

2nd plot

There seems to be some big drag loss,is that right? always thought there was less loss from the fly to wheels on a fwd car.
Irf's is like 111.6 bhp

[Tim Williams]

Peak drag losses will or course alter depending on what gear the car is run in and at what RPM the run is ended. My 850 run in the same gear (4th) as Pyaaps T4 will have about 30-40 BHP lower drag losses due to mine being stopped at about 130MPH and his at about 180MPH.

[p fandango]

This may help

me7 manifold
angledl flange 15g
N/A cams
Rica 302

This was from the green machine on this thread http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/5110-dy...pictures-only/

Specifically the car in question:
http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/5110-dy...post__p__59580

pics 9 &10

and the dyno plot:
http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/5110-dy...post__p__59675

2nd plot

There seems to be some big drag loss,is that right? always thought there was less loss from the fly to wheels on a fwd car.
Irf's is like 111.6 bhp

i've just worked out the transmission losses from the dyno charts in the post

Joules = 40.8%
s70t5chris = 55.2%
KVO = 33.1%
tony-T5 = 35.7%
Irf = 48.8%

[p fandango]

Peak drag losses will or course alter depending on what gear the car is run in and at what RPM the run is ended. My 850 run in the same gear (4th) as Pyaaps T4 will have about 30-40 BHP lower drag losses due to mine being stopped at about 130MPH and his at about 180MPH.

so you saying the dyno runs were done wrong/manipulated, or you saying the transmission losses are right?

[Tim Williams]

so you saying the dyno runs were done wrong/manipulated, or you saying the transmission losses are right?

There isn't a right and a wrong way but the main factor in transmittion loss is tyre drag.

The percentage losses look right for a twin roller set up, as expected Tony's has a lower drag loss with a 15G as it will make peak power lower down so the run will be to a lower speed. KVO had a 19T but with a much lower ratio box so will rev higher than Tony but still about the same speed. Chris' car was run in 5th gear, have you got the graphs to show what gear the other cars were run in?

[t5_monkey]

The K24 is insane in comparison. Haven't had it on a RR yet tho. However when having the K24 fitted I also had Water Injection, Ported/polioshed cylinder head, N/A cams and a few other bits and pieces. At a guess it's probably around 350bhp give or take.

your spec sounds rather fruity K24 and WI, new cams... yum yum

[Rnash2002]

Nice to the see the dyno operator running in real driving condtions lol..........with the bonnet up lmao.

[S70T5Chris]

Nice to the see the dyno operator running in real driving condtions lol..........with the bonnet up lmao.

Real driving conditions? On a dyno? Just a bit of a contradiction there. The enclosed dyno cell at Powerstation is the best setup I've ever seen. So I think it's as close as you would get to road conditions compared to many cheaper dyno's/setup's. That's not to say it's anywhere near, at 150mph on the road with the bonnet up, it would be ripped off, so even with the fan they have it's no where near the airflow you would experience on the road. Another reason why mapping a car on a dyno isn't that good IMHO.

On the WHP debate. I can't really get my head around it TBH. It seems to me that different dyno measure the WHP in a different way or with a different setup or whatever, but then calculate/guestimate the flywheel power from there. So different dyno's end up showing vastly different WHP on the same car. For example (doing this from memory), my old T4 was run on Powerstations RR, at 'x' bhp and 'y' whp. 2 weeks later I ran the car on Regal's RR and the whp was about 30whp more than PS's but the flywheel bhp figure was 2bhp different. So the way I look at it, is you can't compare WHP figures between 2 different cars, unless they were run on the same dyno. There are of course other factors which alter the WHP, but thats just how I see it.

At the end of the day, the point of the dyno is to see how the power/torque is across the rev range, also checking the boost and AFR's to check if it's all ok. The ultimate 'peak' figure for torque and horsepower, is a ball park figure and gives a rough idea of what the car is producing so you can tell all your friends down the pub.

The original poster asked if his intended spec was enough for 300bhp. I don't think it is, the 16t will need some porting work as will the exhaust manifold, and he'll want a bigger throttle body and injectors. And also, IMO, unless he plays with the fueling (and maybe the boost), a HLM/Rica 304 won't do the job on it's own.

I was just demonstrating that you CAN get 300bhp with a 16t turbo.

And just a side note, I think on that particular dyno day, we more or less proved that the 19t is very overrated!

[p fandango]

There isn't a right and a wrong way but the main factor in transmittion loss is tyre drag.

The percentage losses look right for a twin roller set up, as expected Tony's has a lower drag loss with a 15G as it will make peak power lower down so the run will be to a lower speed. KVO had a 19T but with a much lower ratio box so will rev higher than Tony but still about the same speed. Chris' car was run in 5th gear, have you got the graphs to show what gear the other cars were run in?

i haven't got any graphs, all the information/transmission losses were worked out from the T5D5 thread

i'd certainly change my tyres if i was losing over 50% of my power thru them lol