Water injection

[claymore]

Ive seen the CO2 sytem with a rail system around the intercooler, it looks great when staionary but at high speed I doubt it has time to cool the charge and it will only cool the outer edges of the intercooler. The whole CO2 system for cooling air is basically pointless.

It works well to cool the charge down before a drag run.

[Wobbly Dave]

I think you're flawed! You seem to have a lot to say about a lot of stuff you know nothing about !! lol!

It's OK. I have to say that getting married has made me very happy. Next job is the launch of new little Wobblies!!

[wegal]

Jesus Dave the world is dangerous enough with just one wobbly, wobblys lite on the way eh ? Good luck with that :-) Lots of nice things about having kids.. especially the making them part !

[Wobbly Dave]

Hopefully Mrs Wobbly will be putting in an appearance on Saturday (for a wee while).

[GregE102]

[QUOTE=hamish;336714]I'm still not buying it either. I've always seen a drop in power and torque on the dyno with water injection.

How comes some race cars have WI then? Don has a huge tank in his S60 Racer

Besides WI might of stopped you melting a certain engine or was that Adam?
Sorry i have no inner monolog tonight!

[GregE102]

I run WI with two jets (Aquamist basic kit) it works very well but i run it purely for an extra safety measure , The Autronic ecu controls the jets it can even be set up to run each jet individually if needed it only cuts in once the intake temp gets to 45 degrees.

I have only ever run distilled water...

It works for me

LOL Hello Russ

Have been catching up on threads and was thinking as you run WI and mange to blow engines/split lines and Hamish dose not agree with Wi and may have melted the odd piston maybe you could both get together and teach other some good bits about tuning and how to work on a car? and come up with something that works


Cheers Greg

PS have you ever thought about sparkling distilled water maybe the bubbles will make it lighter so you can go faster LOL

[Wobbly Dave]

[GregE102]

Hey Hey Calm down calm down!!!

It was only a bit of light sarcasm! you know a joke!

Don't you have a sense of humour?

Jes! whats wrong with people theses days?

This is getting as bad as the government raising taxes and paying more to the EU! No Fun anymore! Its all gone Doom & Gloom!

Chill Dave!!

Cheers Greg

[Wobbly Dave]

Sorry (tongue in cheek post) - which was not conveyed in the manner. No hard feeling troll - erm I mean Greg :x

[jardon]

Thought I'd return to this with some data. I logged some 60-100 runs today - it's been 4 weeks since I fitted my uprated intercooler and MAF-to-turbo pipe. On the clock I repeatedly measured 5.1 secs and with GPS 5.6 secs (don't believe your speedo). This is with a full tank of fuel - 1700kg+ full fat P2 estate car that runs just under 1.4 bar with a piddly turbo. My IAT's never got above 18C with continuous abuse while the ambient temperature was 20C. Before cooling mods the car was slower, ran richer and IAT's were 50C+ when the ambient was <5C. You cannot achieve sub-ambient IAT's with any intercooler.

The benefits of water/methanol injection are not a topic for debate - if fitted and mapped appropriately your car WILL make more power than without it.

[Wobbly Dave]

There is no doubt that the IAT cannot be less than ambient with just an intercooler. So what you say is good evidence that WI reduces the IATs.

However, I would feel much more convinced if someone would do a before & after dyno chart to show that the WI modification actually did what it says on the tin & increased the power. What's to say that the injection of water does not substantially slow the burn of the fuel itself?

I still think this is subject to heresay rather than scientific proof, and still remain unconvinced until proved otherwise.

[jardon]

There is no doubt that the IAT cannot be less than ambient with just an intercooler. So what you say is good evidence that WI reduces the IATs.

However, I would feel much more convinced if someone would do a before & after dyno chart to show that the WI modification actually did what it says on the tin & increased the power. What's to say that the injection of water does not substantially slow the burn of the fuel itself?

It does slow the burn - that's how it works!!!!!

I still think this is subject to heresay rather than scientific proof, and still remain unconvinced until proved otherwise.

How about I go out and log 60-100 with WI on and 60-100 with WI off (or any speed increment we think is appropriate)? You don't need a dyno to tell you if a car pulls quicker over a 40mph increment or not.

[Jamest5r]

How about I go out and log 60-100 with WI on and 60-100 with WI off (or any speed increment we think is appropriate)? You don't need a dyno to tell you if a car pulls quicker over a 40mph increment or not.

I think that is a fair deal and probaby more accurate than a r/r

Let us know the results pls.

[Wobbly Dave]

Sounds like a plan. Just be very careful. I wouldn't want you getting in any trouble.

[p fandango]

How about I go out and log 60-100 with WI on and 60-100 with WI off (or any speed increment we think is appropriate)? You don't need a dyno to tell you if a car pulls quicker over a 40mph increment or not.

is it safe just to turn the WI off like that if the ecu's been mapped for it? seen a thread on Volvospeed about cars blowing engines because of a tuner selling WI maps to non-WI cars

[jardon]

ME7 is my failsafe - I wouldn't be so rash with an earlier car. The ecu will detect knock and retard timing, reduce boost and maybe reduce etm opening (and blunt performance). This is what has happened over the last year for me - fitting WI and mapping for it took over a second of my 60-100 time. We didn't increase boost but were able to advance ignition significantly. I have a week off so plenty of time for more testing. WI is the first thing I would recommend to anybody getting a custom tune - cheaper than an uprated intercooler and silly performance gains.

[woz]

However, I would feel much more convinced if someone would do a before & after dyno chart to show that the WI modification actually did what it says on the tin & increased the power. What's to say that the injection of water does not substantially slow the burn of the fuel itself?
.

I am planning to do just that.
First step, currently being planned, is a "before RR run"
Then a new Zorst and WI and another power run both with and without WI
Then a RR tuning session to optimise it all (££ permitting)

After that an RIP kit may materialise.
And yes I shall publish the results - to the point of being boring!!.

The start point is a 238k 1996 T5 with a RIca 280 - my landlordmobile, family garbage truck, pet transporter and mobile office owned for 5 years and 70k miles. Just trying to decide which RR operator to use.

Cheers
WOz

[p fandango]

ME7 is my failsafe - I wouldn't be so rash with an earlier car. The ecu will detect knock and retard timing, reduce boost and maybe reduce etm opening (and blunt performance). This is what has happened over the last year for me - fitting WI and mapping for it took over a second of my 60-100 time. We didn't increase boost but were able to advance ignition significantly. I have a week off so plenty of time for more testing. WI is the first thing I would recommend to anybody getting a custom tune - cheaper than an uprated intercooler and silly performance gains.

i think quite alot of people are pre-ME7 on here

[Alan M]

My car running 100% methanol is more willing at higher rpms with the WI on compared to being switched off. I do actually see a difference in Lambda readings with the sysytem on and off also.

[jardon]

Thanks Pedro, pre-ME7 requires more thought when it comes to failsafes but the kits are out there. A few of the members have wisely asked for evidence that it works - the least I can do is prove my rantings with a back to back comparison.