Water injection

[Mr Sheen]

Anyone here running water injection? If so what kit you running, pro's/cons etc
I'm not running big boost on mine, but just looking for a reduction in inlet temps.

[p fandango]

think Cornclose has got it on his, i've got it on my shopping list lol

[woz]

Thought I would just "poke" this thread - I have a pile of bits - hoping to fit in next few weeks after fixing coolant leak.

Running a highish mileage 850 with a RICA 280. looking to protect engine by redunig inlet temps and misfires under prolomged boost.

Will repot back on porgess. Anyone else got anything they want to share??

Woz

[Alan M]

I run a Devils own kit and use a 0.5 jet. I run a 50/50 water/methanol mix. I have the entire kit in the boot including the pump. You will need to use some sort of non return valve in the system to stop the reservoir being auto syphoned because of its relative position to the jet. I also use a cylinder capable of withstanding alcohol for the fluid reservoir.

[woz]

Hi Alan,
Where have you found is the best source of methanol?
Cheers
Warwick

[t5_monkey]

Anyone here running water injection? If so what kit you running, pro's/cons etc
I'm not running big boost on mine, but just looking for a reduction in inlet temps.

is it really needed prior to getting into the darker side of tuning?

I would have thought with a standard remap and bolt ons it wouldn't really make that big a difference... compared to say a good FMIC upgrade?

[Wobbly Dave]

waste of time if you ask me. personally think the science is flawed. If you are that worried about IGT then get a bigger FMIC. last time I checked water was not combustible.

[volvolised]

waste of time if you ask me. personally think the science is flawed. If you are that worried about IGT then get a bigger FMIC. last time I checked water was not combustible.

I think the term dense can definately be used on this point, ive copied and pasted this so i dont type any typo's and yes on a personal note water injection is good, we've all noted how well a car goes on a cold misty morn, anyways here you go. In internal combustion engines, water injection, also known as anti-detonant injection, is a method for cooling the combustion chambers of engines by adding water to the cylinder or incoming fuel-air mixture, allowing for greater compression ratios and largely eliminating the problem of engine knocking (detonation). This effectively increases the octane rating of the fuel, meaning that performance gains can be obtained when used in conjunction with a supercharger or turbocharger, altered spark ignition timing, and other modifications.

Water injection is also used in some turbine engines, when a momentary high-thrust setting is needed.


Many water injection systems use a mixture of water and alcohol (approximately 50/50), with trace amounts of water-soluble oil. The water provides the primary cooling effect due to its great density and high heat absorption properties. The alcohol is combustible, and also serves as an antifreeze for the water. The purpose of the oil is to prevent corrosion of water injection and fuel system components. [1] Because the alcohol mixed into the injection solution is often methanol (CH3OH), the system is known as methanol-water injection, or MW50. In the United States, the system is commonly referred to as anti-detonant injection, or ADI.

[S70T5Chris]

waste of time if you ask me. personally think the science is flawed. If you are that worried about IGT then get a bigger FMIC. last time I checked water was not combustible.

I think you're flawed! You seem to have a lot to say about a lot of stuff you know nothing about !! lol!

[Wobbly Dave]

I think you're flawed! You seem to have a lot to say about a lot of stuff you know nothing about !! lol!

Why do you always have to be so derisory. Have I said or done something to upset you??

[S70T5Chris]

Why do you always have to be so derisory. Have I said or done something to upset you??

Sorry Dave, it was out of order. I was in a bad mood.

Congratulations on getting wed, but you know you're ££££ed now, right?

[LiamT4]

I think you're flawed! You seem to have a lot to say about a lot of stuff you know nothing about !! lol!

Can't you disagree with people without looking like your trying to cause an argument?
There are people on this thread that have different opinions but do not look like they are having a go.

[Wobbly Dave]

I think you're flawed! You seem to have a lot to say about a lot of stuff you know nothing about !! lol!

It's OK. I have to say that getting married has made me very happy. Next job is the launch of new little Wobblies!!

[T4_Al]

How can the science be flawed when water injection is a tried and tested technology having been used in aircraft and vehicles for over 70 years?

[Volvostorm]

They were using it back in 1963, on the Oldsmobile Jetfire Turbo

http://www.oldride.com/library/1963_...e_jetfire.html

Even had a cool name
During turbo charging, Turbo- Rocket Fluid (C) is injected into the gas mixture to permit ultra-high compression for greatest efficiency. This turbo-charging action increases power by almost 40%.

[Wobbly Dave]

Even if it does lower IGT - the water vapour is not combustible and takes up space that could in well designed/tuned solution, be used for fuel & air. So you injecting to cool cylinders to lessen the risk of knock but the overall process is flawed. Surely injecting NOS would be better, if anything.

Aquamist won't say anything against it as they sell it.

I fail to see many examples used outside of the modding community e.g. F1 - that would give it any credance. But this is just my opinion.

I can think of many more better ways to spend your money.

[Tim Williams]

Even if it does lower IGT - the water vapour is not combustible and takes up space that could in well designed/tuned solution, be used for fuel & air. So you injecting to cool cylinders to lessen the risk of knock but the overall process is flawed. Surely injecting NOS would be better, if anything.

Aquamist won't say anything against it as they sell it.

I fail to see many examples used outside of the modding community e.g. F1 - that would give it any credance. But this is just my opinion.

I can think of many more better ways to spend your money.

Rather than digging even deeper if your not prepared to try it then do some reading up on it and you should be able to find some very useful info.

NOS is not free unlike water and are you sure you would want to inject NOS without doing anything else?

The water cools the air and cooler air is also more dense, the more dense the air the more oxygen it contains so you can get a bigger BANG.

[Wobbly Dave]

Rather than digging even deeper if your not prepared to try it then do some reading up on it and you should be able to find some very useful info.

NOS is not free unlike water and are you sure you would want to inject NOS without doing anything else?

The water cools the air and cooler air is also more dense, the more dense the air the more oxygen it contains so you can get a bigger BANG.

So it has less to do with tuning and more to do with costs? You may feel that my opinion is misguided - but I still think there are more viable alternatives to water injection.

By injecting water you are effectively slowing the burn of the combustive elements within the charge?? Surely that means that whilst the charge is cooled - it is also made less effective?

[Transient]

Even if it does lower IGT - the water vapour is not combustible and takes up space that could in well designed/tuned solution, be used for fuel & air. So you injecting to cool cylinders to lessen the risk of knock but the overall process is flawed. Surely injecting NOS would be better, if anything.

Aquamist won't say anything against it as they sell it.

I fail to see many examples used outside of the modding community e.g. F1 - that would give it any credance. But this is just my opinion.

I can think of many more better ways to spend your money.

OK I am running water and methanol injection and I am gaining 45BHP with it. I see a 17 degree decrease in inlet temp and cleaner A/F readings whilst using it properly. If you use too much it can really mess your engine up and cause more problems than it fixes.
I can point to many tuning companies that love it and many that don't
3R who are running the S60Touring car are running water/methanol on that car and on all the other cars they run.
Owen Developments use it on cars they prep and look after for people.
Prodrive install it on cars they run.

Autotech Motorsport Don't like it and have had great results without it.
Mark Blaha has now moved away from it and prefers using 2 stage cooling systems.

yes you would get more performance from injecting NOS however the extra strain that using a combustion catalys puts on your engine really isnt worth it. It creates flash pattern ignition rather than a controled burn, The combustion chamber than has to cope with almost a third more heat for every 80bhp gained. Does that really stack up?

[jardon]

I fail to see many examples used outside of the modding community e.g. F1 - that would give it any credance. But this is just my opinion.

As I am clearly obsessed with this subject I re-read the thread to see if I had contravened any forum rules on rudeness etc - I think I'm safe so far.

I missed Daves query a few months ago but in short WI has been used to great effect (and consequently banned) in Formula 1, NASCAR and WRC - for several decades.

In addition, the modding community as a whole is vast and even looking internally there are countless numbers of before and after dyno plots etc that prove the case. We are all part of that community and to say WI doesn't work is like going back 100 years and wondering if drivers will die at 70mph!