3.0-24v- manual box?

**tigmac** · Sunday 7th February 2010, 11:20

Hi Guys,
I've been banging my head about which motor to put into a long-term project car I've got; long story short, we've decided upon the 3.0 straight 6 (we'll be looking for one of those, too...more in a bit).
I've seen lots of auto's for sale (which should mean being able to pick up a reasonably fit motor, I hope..?), but is there a strong (400bhp +), useful (good gearing, no 'stirring the jampot' gear selection etc) manual gearbox available for these? The only other option would then prob be to adapt the getrag dog-leg box from the project car to fit; that would seem a real arse, but what other solutions could there be?
Any suggestions gratefully recieved, and yes we would then like to buy..well, whatever we need for the job!! :-)
Thanks, Carl

Oh yeah, Project is an AMG Mercedes 190 ;-)

**p fandango** · Sunday 7th February 2010, 11:24

i think that'll be the rare M90 gearbox your after

making an adaptor plate to get the engine to fit your existing gearbox isn't as hard as your think if you know a good engineering shop, getting the clutch right can be a bit of an experiment tho. My bro used one to fit a F*rd V6 into the back of his VW camper

**Tomcat** · Sunday 7th February 2010, 11:39

Ah, a man after my own heart, I've just bought a 960 2.5 with a manual gearbox. They didn't make any 3.0's with the manual box I'm afraid so you'll either have to try and find a 2.5 manual or you'll have to do a manual conversion on the 3.0. I've Toyota Supra gearbox will fit and is well upto any mods you could throw at it, though apparently the standard manual box is also ok for some serious power increases.

**Dangerous Dave** · Sunday 7th February 2010, 16:11

Didn't they fit M90s to the V90 3.0 litre?

**cameron** · Sunday 7th February 2010, 19:32

This guy is breaking a 960 manual

Doesnt say which engine it is though

**smithy** · Sunday 7th February 2010, 19:46

all the 3 litres were autos apart from the was a special done but rare as hens teeth .if i was you i would stick the 2.5 m90 box in they are good for 500 bhp and above or the t5 warner box but me the m90 box

**t5 pete** · Sunday 7th February 2010, 20:11

hello for the lowcost option i would go for the m90 there is a part in them that does fail i have a full right up ill dig out and post it on here for you i have gone for the borg warner t5 box for my conversion as im hoping to be very close to 500bhp and didnt want to risk it with the m90

**t5 pete** · Sunday 7th February 2010, 20:13

M90 is the model designation for an automotive rear-wheel drive gearbox that is found in Volvo 940/960 models from 1994-on.

The gearbox is made by Getrag in Sweden and it is of a 3-axle design, deriving from the Volvo M56 gearbox of the front wheel driven 850 series. It is rumored that the gears between these gearboxes can be swapped.

There are three variations of the gearbox. There is a version for the cast iron 4 cylinder engines of the 940 (redblock), the all aluminum 6 cylinder of the 960 (whiteblock), and the version for the Volkswagen 6 cylinder diesel engine D24TIC. The differences are the bell housing bolt pattern and the output shaft flange with a 3-bolt flange for the redblock/diesel engines and a 4 bolt flange for whiteblock engines. The variant for the 6 cylinder Volvo engine will fit on all 4/5/6 all aluminum Volvo N/RN-series engines.

The clutch is hydraulically operated by a master/slave cylinder setup with a normal clutch fork and throw out bearing. The flywheels used with these gearboxes are dual mass versions (petrol engines) to eliminate the noise that 3-axle (3-shift) gearboxes can make in neutral, and a regular (single mass) flywheels for the diesel engine.

All gears, including the reverse gear, are synchronized.

The M90 gearbox is available with different gear ratios.

Gear M90H1 M90H2 M90L1 M90L2
1 3.54:1 3.54:1 3.91:1 3.91:1
2 2.05:1 2.05:1 2.20:1 2.20:1
3 1.38:1 1.38:1 1.38:1 1.38:1
4 1.00:1 1.00:1 1.00:1 1.00:1
5 0.81:1 0.70:1 0.81:1 0.70:1
Reverse 3.00:1 3.00:1 3.00:1 3.00:1

This gearbox is the strongest manual transmission that Volvo fitted to their rear wheel drive cars. The H2 and L2 versions are stronger than the H and L versions. There is a common disbelief that H is stronger than L, but the only difference between H and L is the gear ratio. In 1997, M90 H2 and M90 L2 where introduced. This revised model of the M90, had an improved design of the 3rd gear synchronous ring; to prevent premature failure of the transmission.

It is possible to modify the synchronous ring of the M90 H and M90 L gearboxes, to eliminate the problem. To do so, one must open up the transmission and weld the synchronous ring in its place.

Now this is a even better write up and has every think you could possibly need to know
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showth...ht=m90+gearbox

**tigmac** · Monday 8th February 2010, 19:34

That's bloody brilliant news! Thanks loads for that Pete...really good! Smithy, Bomb, Cam, Mr Fandango...cheers guys! Tomcat..one of many projects mate

I'll have to work out which box (or combination of gears!!) works out the more 'ideal', but based on the above I should be able to get a few boxes and swap them about to try.
Just wondering, could I use the diesel flywheel?
I'm still undecided about using the EFi, or starting on bike carbs; we'll be contemplating turbos later, once the rest of the car is fully snagged.
Thanks again guys :-)

**v70torslanda** · Monday 8th February 2010, 22:13

I'll just chuck a curve ball in.

Use a T6 out of the S80 with your M90, that'll be 270 bhp before you start remapping! That should make the old girl really lift up her skirts and go.

Shuld be nearly as quick as a 190 2.5 16v Evo.

**t5 pete** · Monday 8th February 2010, 22:21

Originally Posted by v70torslanda

I'll just chuck a curve ball in.

Use a T6 out of the S80 with your M90, that'll be 270 bhp before you start remapping! That should make the old girl really lift up her skirts and go.

Shuld be nearly as quick as a 190 2.5 16v Evo.

thats what tom cat is going to be doing

**tigmac** · Tuesday 9th February 2010, 20:27

torslanda: aha...yes, sounds even BETTER!
And the Evo's were 'only' 250- odd bhp with the AMG Powerpack; my old 2.3-16 was packing that after turbocharging, just wish my lack of local knowledge hadn't hampered my last encounter with an Evo I

(Actually, it was the 'Ring a few years back, and my mate Jack Beckers from Holland is an EXPERT on the place; after accompanying me on a 'sighted' lap [with much 'and the brakes?' and 'err...3rd gear?'] he lead in his 2.3-16 (NA)- powered Evo I (he's saving the rare-as-horse poo short-stroke Evo motor!!)..and promptly f**ked off into the distance! 2 corners..and gone! I caught sight of him now and again, waaaaay up ahead, but really shows how easy it is to negate any modest power advantage with..well, skill, technique and knowing where you're going!!
Tomcat: sounds like a plan buddy

Roll on the fat turbo 6!! Woot!!

**Alan M** · Sunday 7th March 2010, 10:55

Pete what T5 box are you using? Is it the Borg warner T5 cosworth RWD box? If so there are many pitfalls using the Cosworth box. In RWD sierra form power increases above 300lb of torque usually kill the box if it is one that is used hard for launches. It is widely known in Ford circles of the power capability of the T5 box. Given that Volvos are huge in comparison and carry much more weight than a Sierra Sapphire the weight addition will make for a more damaging combination/extra to the box.