Silver C70 T5 - Manual - 400BHP

[jardon]

That's right Dave. But Forge do make exceedingly shiny actuators.

I admit I was taken by the shinyness and the fact that not many others are running them (plenty in the US but not in the UK). It was an easy decision though - the Forge is rebuildable and cheaper than a 300/70 Volvo part. My 19t was from SW Autos originally and was running a 216/60 actuator - not the right one and very tired. When we removed the actuator and pulled on the rod there was no resistance at all - I eventually had 5 full turns of pre-tension to achieve target boost (1.4 bar). The wastegate was blowing open from around 4500 rpm and continued to do so with the Forge actuator when fitted with an 8 psi spring - again, this surprised me initially as 8 psi is well above the 4.3 psi that Volvo start with. The internals of the Forge are different sizes to a stock actuator (diaphragm diameter, etc) so it would be no shock if it behaved differently when you think through it. The 14 psi spring got me back to where the failing stock actuator had been over 1 year previously. My advice to anybody looking to buy a new actuator is go for the Forge but buy the 8 and 14 psi springs - fit the weakest and work from that point. They don't behave as a stock actuator does for a given pre-tension ie: a 1 bar spring sounds heavy duty but it behaves well in my application.

[Wobbly Dave]

I too am a bit of an engine magpie - I would worry for you because it was cheaper & shinier & that the septics are using it. Do not take this as a derrogatory remark. I hope everything holds together.

Buying stuff that the septics use is always a painful and not necessarily rewarding experience. I know this - IPD ARB bushings gave out within 3 years. Short ram air filter went rusty. IPD HD ARB droplinks did not last any longer than the Volvo OEM items.

I am getting a man to look at the ME7 pipe work & should be able to get a RIP kit with properly mounted sensors - if you are interested

Oh look 10K posts!

[jardon]

I too am a bit of an engine magpie - I would worry for you because it was cheaper & shinier & that the septics are using it. Do not take this as a derrogatory remark. I hope everything holds together.

Buying stuff that the septics use is always a painful and not necessarily rewarding experience. I know this - IPD ARB bushings gave out within 3 years. Short ram air filter went rusty. IPD HD ARB droplinks did not last any longer than the Volvo OEM items.

I am getting a man to look at the ME7 pipe work & should be able to get a RIP kit with properly mounted sensors - if you are interested

Oh look 10K posts!

Congrats on the 10k! My intercooler has different inlet and outlet positions to yours so there is no real gain for me in RIP - but cheers.

IPD do seem to have taken a bit of a bashing on the drop links and HD TCV etc but I do like their ARB's. As you say shiney and "uprated" isn't always best but so far so good. Ashok (Pyaap) provided Forge with a range of TD04 turbos and they have fabricated brackets to fit both straight and angled flange variants with their T2 actuators (T3's are the larger diaphragm actuators that Forge make). I don't see a 19t version on the website but bearing in mind the brackets would fit a range of turbos this may be the one:

http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/con...roduct=FMACV40

and the spring choices are:

http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/con...roduct=FMAS049

I have a blue spring - an opening pressure of 14 psi and fully open pressure of 18 psi. As already stated this translates to manifold pressure of ~12 psi when running with the actuator alone so the spring rates quoted by Forge do not have a direct relationship with boost - in my application at least.

[jardon]

my car never had any boost spikes with the mbc but did with the remapped ecu alone and i never hit high boost until after 4000rpms

Cheers Frank, I wasn't getting at your setup - just making the point that ME7 offers significantly greater engine protection (not that you should tune irresponsibly and rely on that). With 4.3 and 4.4 cars boost control will be erratic if mapped incorrectly - this may have been your issue. An MBC will reduce fluctuations in boost but eliminates any protection the ECU may try to exercise by reducing boost. In light of that I would be setting it lower as you have already stated. Although I run a "heavy duty" actuator my ecu can pull boost back to 12 psi if it gets scared whereas an MBC allows that 1.4 bar to wreak havoc if things go wrong.

10k posts here I come - just on Daves thread!

[siamblue]

Hi Gary. Unless we are talking about different things pre-tension and base boost are the same thing ie: if your actuator starts to open at 7 psi (its pre-tension) then minimum (base) boost at WOT is 7 psi. The bcs is what the ecu uses via it's remap to allow 17 psi. Not sure how 14psi fits into the picture (but it is late!).

Sorry it was late lol.. I meant to say boost was peaking at 14psi when the actuator was set at 7psi opening. I am not sure whether to turn it down abit a nd let.the evc6 take more.control.of the boost, what are your thoughts? Car holds 20psi + if I wanted it too.


Gary

[jardon]

Sorry it was late lol.. I meant to say boost was peaking at 14psi when the actuator was set at 7psi opening. I am not sure whether to turn it down abit a nd let.the evc6 take more.control.of the boost, what are your thoughts? Car holds 20psi + if I wanted it too.


Gary

Hi Gary, I am out of my depth on EBC's and how they are setup - I think some are more advanced than others with ability to control boost at different rpm settings aren't they? Definitely not me to ask on this for a complete answer but if it's working then I'd leave it as is - I'm guessing less boost means running richer and more boost means leaner with an earlier car so if the fuelling is mapped for a particular level of boost then playing with it either way is not ideal? If the actuator opening pressure is 7psi then the EVC is letting it build to 14psi. What happens if you disconnect the ebc and let the compressor run direct to the actuator - it should boost to ~7psi not 14. Being an ME7 girlie-boy I don't know many folks with an EBC but Tim uses his to good effect and Irf made 340bhp at 1.3 bar with an 18t/flowed head using an ebc.

[Wobbly Dave]

When we get the M56 back on - God only knows how long that will be - we will have a play on the dyno & tweak the actuator a bit more & see if I can't get & sustain 1.4 bar - track the IAT's more carefully & see if we can sustain the torque through the rev range. I have a suspicion that it may bubble just like with the bleed valve. Only time will tell.

I have a feeling though that the map will not allow it.

I am also thinking of putting in some additional under bonnet ducting or redesign the sump area to increase a venturi style effect to improve air flow through the FMIC. My thoughts are that if I can significantly decrease the under engine pressure relative to the engine bay - then this will effectively suck the air through the IC - rather than it bouncing of the block. Make the air flow cleaner. Either that or work out a bypass switch for the rad fan (in parallel to the thermostatic control). Barometric sensors - ebay here we come!

[smithy]

dave dave dave where did you get the idea that it is going to cost you 8k for an engine rebuild.99 percent of rods are forged in china and sent back to the companys for finishing off .i have k1 part of carrielly rods company and they are running 700 bhp evos on the track all day long with no problems.and you are only looking for 350 bhp power for everyday driving and some track use anyway.and personally i would not want to run anymore than 350 whp anyway no point whatever gearbox you are using and your dmf and clutch would not take it anyway.if i was you i would put some rods in it and pistons if you need them and have the engine checked over or put a 2.4 in it.get hamish to send you 19t to his turbo people and have it machined to take bigger wheels like 20g or garrett ,bolt back together no need for dp or nothing just remap and you are running greens anyway so fueling not a problem.or just leave alone and up the boost lower down like you have and see how it goes.but whatever you if will not cost a fortune and bot 8k lol.and if you didnot want to do the 19t use hamishes hybrid turbo that a good unit too

[jardon]

When we get the M56 back on - God only knows how long that will be - we will have a play on the dyno & tweak the actuator a bit more & see if I can't get & sustain 1.4 bar - track the IAT's more carefully & see if we can sustain the torque through the rev range. I have a suspicion that it may bubble just like with the bleed valve. Only time will tell.

I have a feeling though that the map will not allow it.

I am also thinking of putting in some additional under bonnet ducting or redesign the sump area to increase a venturi style effect to improve air flow through the FMIC. My thoughts are that if I can significantly decrease the under engine pressure relative to the engine bay - then this will effectively suck the air through the IC - rather than it bouncing of the block. Make the air flow cleaner. Either that or work out a bypass switch for the rad fan (in parallel to the thermostatic control). Barometric sensors - ebay here we come!

Although there is a chance that you may gain peak boost by tightening the actuator (and I agree you should check as mine was slowly giving up) the map is what will decide how much boost you make. You couldn't get it to make significantly more boost than it's expecting without some of the engine protection kicking in - ME7 is fundamentally built that way. But try it all the same as actuator springs do wear and there may be some lost torque waiting to appear.

I fitted an engine tray recently as my car didn't come with one - in theory this improves air flow through the IC and under the car but I can't honestly say I understand how. All cooling is good though.

[jardon]

dave dave dave where did you get the idea that it is going to cost you 8k for an engine rebuild.99 percent of rods are forged in china and sent back to the companys for finishing off .i have k1 part of carrielly rods company and they are running 700 bhp evos on the track all day long with no problems.and you are only looking for 350 bhp power for everyday driving and some track use anyway.and personally i would not want to run anymore than 350 whp anyway no point whatever gearbox you are using and your dmf and clutch would not take it anyway.if i was you i would put some rods in it and pistons if you need them and have the engine checked over or put a 2.4 in it.get hamish to send you 19t to his turbo people and have it machined to take bigger wheels like 20g or garrett ,bolt back together no need for dp or nothing just remap and you are running greens anyway so fueling not a problem.or just leave alone and up the boost lower down like you have and see how it goes.but whatever you if will not cost a fortune and bot 8k lol.and if you didnot want to do the 19t use hamishes hybrid turbo that a good unit too

I agree with all that except for the greens - they are totally inadequate in the pre-facelift ME7 T5's in anything more than a stage 2. The fuel system is "returnless" and fuel pressure remains static at 3.8 bar irrespective of manifold pressure. Logging injector opening times is very revealling - even VXR injectors are at 100% duty from ~5000 rpm in my car. They are fine in the earlier and later T5's as they have mechanical or electronic fuel pressure regulation on boost.

Dave may not be in that territory (yet) as his car isn't really flowing much air/fuel but maxing that 19t out will. The stock fuel pump will also be at or beyond it's flow rate with the 19t going full pelt - I speak from experience and I have watched fuel pressure drop on a gauge as we rev past ~5000 rpm.

I don't think Dave has plans for bigger turbos but he would require bigger injectors and a Walbro or equivalent.

[smithy]

I agree with all that except for the greens - they are totally inadequate in the pre-facelift ME7 T5's in anything more than a stage 2. The fuel system is "returnless" and fuel pressure remains static at 3.8 bar irrespective of manifold pressure. Logging injector opening times is very revealling - even VXR injectors are at 100% duty from ~5000 rpm in my car. They are fine in the earlier and later T5's as they have mechanical or electronic fuel pressure regulation on boost.

Dave may not be in that territory (yet) as his car isn't really flowing much air/fuel but maxing that 19t out will. The stock fuel pump will also be at or beyond it's flow rate with the 19t going full pelt - I speak from experience and I have watched fuel pressure drop on a gauge as we rev past ~5000 rpm.

I don't think Dave has plans for bigger turbos but he would require bigger injectors and a Walbro or equivalent.

i dont know much about the me7s regarding mapping etc but at 3.8 bar vxrs will be running at nearly 550cc so they should fuel a 19t on full flow no probs i would of thought and if the fuel pump insnt man enough them put a 004 dosch unit in there.this is why i like pre me7 because vxrs will fuel some big turbos no probs

[Wobbly Dave]

I am thinking of the bypass switch particularly for the fireup lane where ambient's can be quite high. My IAT's at tickover without any fan running are around 7 to 8 degrees higher than the ambient. Cheap & easy mod to do I think will be to allow the rad fan to run.

I am also thinking about getting some thermal insulation for the gasket between the inlet manifold & the block to reduce conducted heat. I think this will be minimal but relatively inexpensive.

As air passes under the car it should be travelling faster than the air under the bonnet. To encourage this with a sheet of plastic I think I could curve it in such a way to smooth & increase the airflow through the IC. Can't hurt can it.

[jardon]

i dont know much about the me7s regarding mapping etc but at 3.8 bar vxrs will be running at nearly 550cc so they should fuel a 19t on full flow no probs i would of thought and if the fuel pump insnt man enough them put a 004 dosch unit in there.this is why i like pre me7 because vxrs will fuel some big turbos no probs

You are absolutely right when considering earlier and later T5's but at 1.4 bar my fuel pressure (and Daves) is 3.8 - 1.4 = 2.4 bar. Pop that through a flow calculator and it's a very different story. On boost the phase 1 vehicles have a vacuum line to the FPR which raises fuel pressure in tandem with manifold pressure to maintain 3 bar above manifold pressure. The pre-facelift ME7 T5's have no control over fuel pressure and therefore on boost you have a bet fall in fuel pressure - shocking but true. With 650cc injectors my duty cycle at full flow is ~85%.

[Wobbly Dave]

I agree with all that except for the greens - they are totally inadequate in the pre-facelift ME7 T5's in anything more than a stage 2. The fuel system is "returnless" and fuel pressure remains static at 3.8 bar irrespective of manifold pressure. Logging injector opening times is very revealling - even VXR injectors are at 100% duty from ~5000 rpm in my car. They are fine in the earlier and later T5's as they have mechanical or electronic fuel pressure regulation on boost.

Dave may not be in that territory (yet) as his car isn't really flowing much air/fuel but maxing that 19t out will. The stock fuel pump will also be at or beyond it's flow rate with the 19t going full pelt - I speak from experience and I have watched fuel pressure drop on a gauge as we rev past ~5000 rpm.

I don't think Dave has plans for bigger turbos but he would require bigger injectors and a Walbro or equivalent.

I am keeping my current 19 until it expires - I have the greens (I upgraded from blue injectors in 2009/10).

I will remember to measure & report my findings on the duty cycle. All I can say at the moment is that with the 1.2 bar at WOT - the AFR was stable & adequate.

[Wobbly Dave]

I am keeping my current 19 until it expires - I have the greens (I upgraded from blue injectors in 2009/10).

I will remember to measure & report my findings on the duty cycle. All I can say at the moment is that with the 1.2 bar at WOT - the AFR was stable & adequate.

I have to report that I am not entirely convinced of the TORQUE application on my android phone - it seemed to produce some spurious numbers e.g. 32 psi boost ???!!

Connectivity over long periods also seems to be an issue.

I may yet turn to a wired USB connection & use a laptop instead.

[turbo-tuner]

I have to report that I am not entirely convinced of the TORQUE application on my android phone - it seemed to produce some spurious numbers e.g. 32 psi boost ???!!

Connectivity over long periods also seems to be an issue.

I may yet turn to a wired USB connection & use a laptop instead.

32 psi = 2.2 bar

Take away 1.0 bar atmospheric pressure and you get 1.2 bar (@manifold) which is probably correct.

If my theory is correct, then it should read approx 14.5 psi @ idle. If it reads zero, then my theory is ££££££!

[JT]

32 psi = 2.2 bar

Take away 1.0 bar atmospheric pressure and you get 1.2 bar (@manifold) which is probably correct.

If my theory is correct, then it should read approx 14.5 psi @ idle. If it reads zero, then my theory is ££££££!

quality answer!! lol

[Wobbly Dave]

32 psi = 2.2 bar

Take away 1.0 bar atmospheric pressure and you get 1.2 bar (@manifold) which is probably correct.

If my theory is correct, then it should read approx 14.5 psi @ idle. If it reads zero, then my theory is ££££££!

It's ££££££ Adam - as it read negative (vacuum) when off boost. I think it is a software fault? possibly??

[turbo-tuner]

It's ££££££ Adam - as it read negative (vacuum) when off boost. I think it is a software fault? possibly??

or maybe some calibration setting in the software?

[Wobbly Dave]

possibly - however I fear that I may still have to fit a god-aweful a-column boost gauge to be certain. I hate them.

Dyno run will confirm to be sure.