V40 no start, has spark, has fuel...!!!

[readview]

Hi,have you managed to get the better of the dead car yet Al ?

[CONDYBOY]

AL? Any joy yet?
If the plugs are dry then surely that points to the injectors?

Nice thread! never heard of rings sticking in the pistons before. But I live and learn.
I had this once on my mates £££££roen and it turned out to be a burnt out diode in the ecu, couldn't get a fault code without the engine running so I bridged the ecu diode with a piece of paperclip, (Yes butchery I know!) took the car to a stealer and got no codes at all. the car was still running when my mate sold it on eight months later.

[LeeT5]

I just had a thought (that's probably as irrelevant as my first, but no matter, it won't hurt). I had this once on a Citroen diesel (it was before I saw the light). It cranked and cranked and just wouldn't start. Turned out to be the head gasket. Obviously there were earlier symptoms like running hot, but I didn't realise what that was at the time.

The AA chap who popped over reckoned he could test it by removing the radiator cap and cranking. It spat water high into the air (can't remember the reasoning - probably something to do with pistons and water).

Worth a look?

That's not a proper test but pretty conclusive. The reason the water spouts out the expansion/header tank is because of pressure coming from the engine cylinders via a leaking headgasket! If your car does this then it's a waste of time carrying out any tests because your headgasket is definately leaking.

[LeeT5]

never heard of rings sticking in the pistons before.

Err that's called a seized engine!! I don't think Al has this problem otherwise i think he would know.

[readview]

I appreciate that this is not a common issue but like yourself i have been in the trade 19 years and this problem does exist as does the starter motor issue that you were unfamiliar with.Sticky rings seem to be most common on 960's but we have had it on 850's and the odd 40 series.The starter one may be hard to believe,it was for us when we first came across it,but thats the thing about our job,no matter how long youv'e been doing it you never stop learning.
Adam.

Err that's called a seized engine!! I don't think Al has this problem otherwise i think he would know.

[Al115]

Thanks to everyone for their time contributing to date...

I haven't had any luck with any of the suggestions above... incredible, eh! Have fitted replacement coils/leads, checked that the engine isn't full of fuel, the rings aren't seized, etc... the lot!

I think I'll have to have a word with Stuart @ SWs and see about taking the car down to him, as I'm reaching the limit of my abilities... bah!

Cheers all.

[LeeT5]

I appreciate that this is not a common issue but like yourself i have been in the trade 19 years and this problem does exist as does the starter motor issue that you were unfamiliar with.Sticky rings seem to be most common on 960's but we have had it on 850's and the odd 40 series.The starter one may be hard to believe,it was for us when we first came across it,but thats the thing about our job,no matter how long youv'e been doing it you never stop learning.
Adam.

I think you maybe confusing 'sticking rings' with 'sticking hydraulic lifters'??
You cannot possibly have a 'sticking piston ring', else when you crank the engine over it would either unstick (immediately) or fracture! Put simply, if the engine is cranking over then it most definately is NOT 'sticking rings'!

However, sticking hydraulic lifters is another thing all together. Early pre '95 - 5 cylinder engines fitted to all the 850 range suffered with sticking lifters. I know because one of my 850's 2.5 20v engine did just that. It would crank and not start. All that had happened was a couple of the hydraulic lifters had got stuck 'up' (carbon build up) and therefore instantly causing a no compression situation because the valves would just open up when the pressure built up and thus you wouldn't be able to start the car. Only way to resolve it was WOT and crank till she finally built compression as the lifters 'un stuck' themselves.

This problem was rectified on ALL post '95 engines.

Fact - speak to Volvo if you don't believe me.

Ask any sound mechanic/technician and they will all tell you that you cannot have a sticking ring simply because they are recessed into the piston and when it moves up and down so does the rings. If they seize then you would know about it and the engine would be boloxed.

[CONDYBOY]

Err that's called a seized engine!! I don't think Al has this problem otherwise i think he would know.

Sorry mate, a siezed engine is the rings sticking to the bore! we're talking about the rings sticking inside the grooves in the piston which would stop them sealing against the bore and cause a loss of pressure, the engine would turn more freely in this case!

[LeeT5]

Sorry mate, a siezed engine is the rings sticking to the bore! we're talking about the rings sticking inside the grooves in the piston which would stop them sealing against the bore and cause a loss of pressure, the engine would turn more freely in this case!

Whilst i understand exactly what your saying, please explain to me just how this is possible being as the piston rings are under constant 'outwards' tension. They are sprung and therefore need to be compressed in order to slide the piston and rings inside the bore when initially fitting. I cannot see how the rings would suddenly seize and clamp themselves tight around the piston when they are in constant contact and scrapping the bore walls? Indeed it may be possible for the rings to change shape, but the way they are manufactured, even this seems far fetched. Piston rings are designed to cope with extreme heat, even more so than the pistons themselves due to the immense heat and strain they are under due to frictional forces, forces involved on the thrust side of the piston etc. The only time odd things with engines manifest themselves are under extreme conditions. Mainly caused by lack of maintenance or none what so ever!

Are you suggesting that Al's parents car is not maintained? I don't think you are kind sir, so please do tell all how the piston rings seize tight on the pistons and effectively shrink? This would also cause a problem otherwise known in the trade as 'piston slap'. If the rings stop doing their job then the pistons (not being an interference fit) will be free to slap, grind and smash the piston bores to destruction!!

I'm all ears??

[LeeT5]

Thanks to everyone for their time contributing to date...

I haven't had any luck with any of the suggestions above... incredible, eh! Have fitted replacement coils/leads, checked that the engine isn't full of fuel, the rings aren't seized, etc... the lot!

I think I'll have to have a word with Stuart @ SWs and see about taking the car down to him, as I'm reaching the limit of my abilities... bah!

Cheers all.

I will be keen to find out the reason for your woes. Am seeing Stuart myself soon so will find out from the horses mouth!

[readview]

We have had the sticking lifters problem plenty of times,it causes a loud tapping noise from the top end as the cam rotates and is best cured by a good engine flush and oil change.We have had it on most models up to '97.
With reference to checking with volvo,i dont feel the need as my principal mechanic was a main agent mastertec and mot tester for 22 years.I joined this thread in an attempt to help someone out of a problem which afaik is the point of the forum,wasn't quite expecting to find myself attracting sarcastic critisism and suggestions that i should consult a "sound mechanic".We have been trading for 19 years and survive on reputation alone,we have a 99.55% feedback rating on the good garage scheme and are on the voc list of recommended independents.Seeing as you are evidently superior in knowledge to myself and maidstone is not far from london might i suggest that you gather your spanners and pop round and fix the problem car.I'll pay the petrol costs.

I think you maybe confusing 'sticking rings' with 'sticking hydraulic lifters'??
You cannot possibly have a 'sticking piston ring', else when you crank the engine over it would either unstick (immediately) or fracture! Put simply, if the engine is cranking over then it most definately is NOT 'sticking rings'!

However, sticking hydraulic lifters is another thing all together. Early pre '95 - 5 cylinder engines fitted to all the 850 range suffered with sticking lifters. I know because one of my 850's 2.5 20v engine did just that. It would crank and not start. All that had happened was a couple of the hydraulic lifters had got stuck 'up' (carbon build up) and therefore instantly causing a no compression situation because the valves would just open up when the pressure built up and thus you wouldn't be able to start the car. Only way to resolve it was WOT and crank till she finally built compression as the lifters 'un stuck' themselves.

This problem was rectified on ALL post '95 engines.

Fact - speak to Volvo if you don't believe me.

Ask any sound mechanic/technician and they will all tell you that you cannot have a sticking ring simply because they are recessed into the piston and when it moves up and down so does the rings. If they seize then you would know about it and the engine would be boloxed.

[Al115]

Come on guys, I've been really cheered up by all the offers of help and advice, even if the car still isn't working yet Please don't let the topic degenerate into a sarcasm competition / slanging match, there's no need for it. Plus I don't want to have to lock my own thread

Again, thanks to all for the suggestions and hopefully we'll get it sorted out soon!

[readview]

No problems here Al,i was only trying to help.Just felt obliged to reply as some of the comments rubbed me up the wrong way.If you discover a faulty bit let me know,i'll most likely have one lying around somewhere.

Come on guys, I've been really cheered up by all the offers of help and advice, even if the car still isn't working yet Please don't let the topic degenerate into a sarcasm competition / slanging match, there's no need for it. Plus I don't want to have to lock my own thread

Again, thanks to all for the suggestions and hopefully we'll get it sorted out soon!

[LeeT5]

We have had the sticking lifters problem plenty of times,it causes a loud tapping noise from the top end as the cam rotates and is best cured by a good engine flush and oil change.We have had it on most models up to '97.
With reference to checking with volvo,i dont feel the need as my principal mechanic was a main agent mastertec and mot tester for 22 years.I joined this thread in an attempt to help someone out of a problem which afaik is the point of the forum,wasn't quite expecting to find myself attracting sarcastic critisism and suggestions that i should consult a "sound mechanic".We have been trading for 19 years and survive on reputation alone,we have a 99.55% feedback rating on the good garage scheme and are on the voc list of recommended independents.Seeing as you are evidently superior in knowledge to myself and maidstone is not far from london might i suggest that you gather your spanners and pop round and fix the problem car.I'll pay the petrol costs.

How funny that my reply be taken out of context! I was only asking a question, which still hasn't been answered. Alas, i am none the wiser. As with all things, a crystal ball would be great so now i know that your principal mechanic was a master tech for 22 years...Happy days! Excellent, maybe he can answer my question then?

As for rubbing you up the wrong way? well it's how you interpreted my reply! We all know what we know and i certainly am no expert. Everyday we learn something new, i certainly do. I know what i know and if i don't then i hold my hands up.

So, are you or your master tech going to explain or not? I simply want to know how it is possible and exactly what happens and why? I'm sure everyone will agree that if your going to reply to someone and state some thing then you must surely be able to back it up with a reasonable explanation....else, what's the point?

Anyway Al, if you want to lock the thread then that's ok with me but i never intended to offend anyone or rub anyone up the wrong way.

Sorry to trader if you thought i was trying to pick a fight however you seem to have gone on the defensive for some reason and i'm really not sure why?

[CONDYBOY]

Whilst i understand exactly what your saying, please explain to me just how this is possible being as the piston rings are under constant 'outwards' tension. They are sprung and therefore need to be compressed in order to slide the piston and rings inside the bore when initially fitting. I cannot see how the rings would suddenly seize and clamp themselves tight around the piston when they are in constant contact and scrapping the bore walls? Indeed it may be possible for the rings to change shape, but the way they are manufactured, even this seems far fetched. Piston rings are designed to cope with extreme heat, even more so than the pistons themselves due to the immense heat and strain they are under due to frictional forces, forces involved on the thrust side of the piston etc. The only time odd things with engines manifest themselves are under extreme conditions. Mainly caused by lack of maintenance or none what so ever!

Are you suggesting that Al's parents car is not maintained? I don't think you are kind sir, so please do tell all how the piston rings seize tight on the pistons and effectively shrink? This would also cause a problem otherwise known in the trade as 'piston slap'. If the rings stop doing their job then the pistons (not being an interference fit) will be free to slap, grind and smash the piston bores to destruction!!

I'm all ears??

Okay, this is not a slagging match I am mearly interested, I do not know the maintenance history of the vehicle and I do not make assumptions.
If you would care to read my other post in this thread I have never come across rings sticking into the piston and I have no idea how this would come to be. But if I was to guess I'd say that theoretically as the majority of force on the rings is in a downward direction (as the piston rises causing compression, and as the fuel goes bang forcing the piston down), then the rings may wear slightly unevenly, and after time they may become marginally angled downwards (in relation to the bore), thus taking a convex shape (outer edge lower) and this could force the ring into the groove when the fuel goes bang and the force is placed on an angled surface (instead of the usual flat surface) of the ring. This could then also cause the ring to wedge in its groove as the angled is greater than the straight. But as stated I have never come across this and is merely my own musings.

Any joy Al?

[Al115]

None yet but I haven't had a chance to look at the car since I last posted!

Will have another crack on Sunday. JOY....!

[Al115]

Coolant Temp Sensor!

Now, I'd already swapped this for a "known good" one off another car and ruled it out... but as sod's law would have it, the replacement one wasn't "good" at all.

When I was going back over the car looking at everything again, I thought I'd double-check the CTS sensor with the multi-meter... was a bit suspicious... replaced it with a 4.7k ohm resistor to simulate "very cold" and hey presto, she runs! A bit oily, but nothing a good blast (once the sensor is replaced) won't fix.

THANKS to everyone for their suggestions and encouragement!!!

[Tomcat]

DOh!!!, at least you found out what it was eh??..

[readview]

Always nice when it's a easy fix!

[CONDYBOY]

Nice one mate, glad you found it.