Antone with a HLM304 map?

[Hallsy]

Anyone has got a HLM304 map on their 850 (preferably fairly std), and has had it on the rollers, could they post up some graphs please?

It's the torque curve I'm interested in. I have seen a graph from someone else and the the torque curve was from flat, it was all over the place. Of course, that could have been down to issues with the car, but from what I remember the peak torque and bhp figures were about right for the map (compared to others).

I'm just debating whether to go with this map, or spend a little more and got MTE, as supposedly they get the same peak power (not sure about torque) with less boost and kinder AFR, with a nice flat torque curve.

[Yosser]

Not an 850, but a phase 1 V70, no other mods at the time except a panel filter:

[Hallsy]

Thanks Yosser, the more the merrier

I think it was your graph I had seen before (over on T5D5), now I'm no T5 expert but that torque curve looks a little erratic in general. Was the car in good health when on the rollers?

[Yosser]

Yes it was (is?) healthy.

The curve is a wee bit all over the place, and a bit steep in it's delivery, but the car drives ok.

I guess it could be improved on, and I do have a standard ecu waiting here for trying out another map at some time

FWIW the car is an auto.

The standard torque curve of my car before the remap:

[Hallsy]

Yeah, that is what you'd normally expect, and when tuning a car you would normally aim for a reasonbaly flat torque curve for as long as possible, giving you progressive bhp increase as you increase revs.

[p fandango]

Yeah, that is what you'd normally expect, and when tuning a car you would normally aim for a reasonbaly flat torque curve for as long as possible, giving you progressive bhp increase as you increase revs.

it really does depend on how you want the car, i prefer them very aggressive. Being an auto tho i wonder how accurate the graph is as auto's are hard to run if i remember right

your best bet is to go out in one & try it, alot better than trying to guess how it drives from a graph

[Hallsy]

I could imagine an auto giving a slightly off graph on the rollers, but then that's why you should disable kick down and leave it in a specific gear.

I quite agree that driving a car will give you a good idea of whether it's for you or not, but I'm still interested to see graphs as they show you what real world power delivery is like, rather than just talking peak figures & seat of pants dyno's

That and the fact if one map can make just as good or similar power on less boost and a safer AFR, I would go for that as it should be a little kinder on the engine

[splatt]

This is from my T5R manual. All it has is an ITG pannel filter!

ECU soon to be up for sale

[p fandango]

I could imagine an auto giving a slightly off graph on the rollers, but then that's why you should disable kick down and leave it in a specific gear.

from what i understand its not as easy as that, or there wouldn't be such a problem getting them dyno'd in the first place

I quite agree that driving a car will give you a good idea of whether it's for you or not, but I'm still interested to see graphs as they show you what real world power delivery is like, rather than just talking peak figures & seat of pants dyno's

surely looking at a graph is the one talking just numbers, not actually driving it? Isn't "real world power delivery" what you get on the road, not on a piece of paper. TBH i'm very much anti-remaping, thats mainly because having driven in many various remapped T-5's i've never found one i liked how they drive, i much prefer'd a £20 MBC over any of them (my personal opinion)

That and the fact if one map can make just as good or similar power on less boost and a safer AFR, I would go for that as it should be a little kinder on the engine

i know exactly were you've read that, & tbh i wouldn't believe a word of it. I've lost count of how many people have had either the Rica 304 or the HLM 304 (same thing i understand), & i'm yet to hear of anyone who's had an engine failure due to fueling problems with one of the above remaps. I think you'll find its more scaremongering due to the fact they couldn't match the bargain price HLM are offering

[Hallsy]

Quite possibly, I'm sure you do know where I've read that, but I've been around various tuning scenes long enough to know there is plenty of bitching to be had, which is why I wanted to do my homework

I agree with you on extracting as much as possible from the std map, however, the only thing I don't like about using an MBC or EBC on a car that uses the ECU to control boost, is that you loose the safety feature. If your ECU detects a problem it will limit boost to something safe (actuator pressure I'd guess). Sure you can use a knock meter, but you get my point.

As for my 'real world' comment, I didn't really get myself across properly, but tbh I like to see torque curves to get an idea of the driveability. Out of interest as much as anything.

I totally agree that the HLM maps shouldn't be feared, if (as suggested) they are the same as the Rica maps, but I think it is HLM's work ethics that some have had problems with. Also, I think their custom work has been questioned before. Again, an off the shelf map shouldn't be too far wrong, especially if you get it checked out on the rollers.

[Hallsy]

Thanks for that Splat. Rica/HLM304 I presume?

[splatt]

RICA remap. Was worth every penny. better delivery, better driveability and better MPG.
Am already considering getting this done on my new car (as soon as the warranty is up!)

[p fandango]

Quite possibly, I'm sure you do know where I've read that, but I've been around various tuning scenes long enough to know there is plenty of bitching to be had, which is why I wanted to do my homework

indeed, there is plenty of bitching/rivalry to be had everywhere

I agree with you on extracting as much as possible from the std map, however, the only thing I don't like about using an MBC or EBC on a car that uses the ECU to control boost, is that you loose the safety feature. If your ECU detects a problem it will limit boost to something safe (actuator pressure I'd guess). Sure you can use a knock meter, but you get my point.

totally get what you mean, can't have everything tho i'm afraid lol. Altho i'm guessing the TT ecu would give you the ability to make the boost as aggressive as you want, & would of thought still keeps the limp home fully operational

I totally agree that the HLM maps shouldn't be feared, if (as suggested) they are the same as the Rica maps, but I think it is HLM's work ethics that some have had problems with. Also, I think their custom work has been questioned before. Again, an off the shelf map shouldn't be too far wrong, especially if you get it checked out on the rollers.

again swings & round abouts, some have had good experiences & some have had bad. Not sure if HLM still do custom work do they? I have used HLM a few times in the past both to supply parts & to do some work, they were very helpfull when problems arose with the parts i'd supplied them to fit. The parts weren't as expected & BT was put back to how she arrived & i only got charged the price of an oil & water change. As a rule tho i like to buy from the cheapest supplier & get local people i know to fit them

[cameron]

HLM 304 for me, 257bhp and makes me smile everytime i plant the foot

Ive got a graph somewhere, i'll see if i can look it out

[Hallsy]

totally get what you mean, can't have everything tho i'm afraid lol. Altho i'm guessing the TT ecu would give you the ability to make the boost as aggressive as you want, & would of thought still keeps the limp home fully operational

I 'think' most after market maps still keep the safety features - don't they?

[Johnny5]

Check ur PM's splat

Cheers

John

[p fandango]

I 'think' most after market maps still keep the safety features - don't they?

yeh, i mentioned the TT because you can make it alot more aggressive than any of the off the shelf maps

[Hallsy]

Tt?

[p fandango]

Tt?

turbo tuner, its a conversion to enable a laptop to be plugged into to your ecu so you can reprogram it

[Hallsy]

Ah right, yes I think I have heard of that.