new turbo... which one?

**yellowt5r** · Friday 15th May 2009, 20:28

thats the point chris for the money its not worth it

whos McCableties sound good i what one of them.lol

**S70T5Chris** · Friday 15th May 2009, 20:28

Originally Posted by yellowt5r

its cheaper choice/as good in performance wise thats the point

You're right.

On paper the 19t performs better, and maybe it does a smidge. But hardly noticable in the real world.

To compare mine and Warrens (volvolised/KVO) car. Basically the same spec, but he has a 19t. In terms of HP/Torque - very similar. On the road/track, theres nothing in it.

Is the 19t worth the extra money - NO!

**S70T5Chris** · Friday 15th May 2009, 20:31

Originally Posted by yellowt5r

thats the point chris for the money its not worth it

whos McCableties sound good i what one of them.lol

Christ almighty, you don't want, believe me!

**p fandango** · Friday 15th May 2009, 20:35

Originally Posted by S70T5Chris

Woohoo I'm a genious.

well done lol

I know it's not a secret, i'm jesting. If you want to live in blissful ignorance thats up to you!

i'm lost, ignorance of what?

Its just my prediction thats all. Most of what i've said is based on fact. I can see the dyno plot, and interprit it, and therefore can make comments based on that!

can you post some of these facts up then please, so far all i've seen from you is "i don't think the fuelling can be right"

Good question. But are you saying that a 16t can't easily produce 265bhp?

where have i said anything about what the 16T can or can't do, what i did say is Volvo choose the 19T for a reason, & considering its so "over-rated" i would be just as interested to know why

Why did volvo not use the 19t on the S60 T5 then? I can't answer that question really, maybe Mick knows?

don't the T-5's use KKK series turbos like the R's? I doubt i'll be seeing Mick again, but i'll make a note of the question for you & see if he can shed any light on it

A few yes, but not massively more than FFM's mods.

if you actually look FFM hasn't got that many mods (no offence Paul), he's still running a standard CAT, standard backbox & airbox

Does that mean I win?!

if the aim was to see who can put the other to sleep first then yes you win, congratulations you've won a bananna lol

**p fandango** · Friday 15th May 2009, 20:39

Originally Posted by S70T5Chris

Ok. If you presented me with 2 turbos and I had to pick one, a 19t and a 16t, I didn't have to pay for them, just pick one. I'd have the 19t. As i've agreed, it has mildly better mid range and top end than a 16t. But by how much? Not a feckin bucket load by any stretch of the imagination. If I had to buy a decent second hand turbo and had to choose between a £450 19t and a £100 16t, I'd have the 16t all day long. The minor improvement you get from a 19t is not worth the extra money.

now i feel we're getting somewhere, & what if the 19T wasn't at the over-exaggerated price that you've put on it. As i said i only paid £500 for a brand-new 19T & i do know FFM didn't pay anywhere near £450 for his second-hand one?

**t5 pete** · Friday 15th May 2009, 20:39

Pop corn at the ready what a night of entertainment

**p fandango** · Friday 15th May 2009, 20:44

Originally Posted by t5 pete

Pop corn at the ready what a night of entertainment

lol. I don't know about popcorn, think Redbull would be a better choice (hope the argument doesn't start about which energy drink is better now lol)

i do enjoy a good banter & hope everyone is taking it as lighthearted as i am & intending it to be

**S70T5Chris** · Friday 15th May 2009, 20:46

i'm lost, ignorance of what?

You have no idea what the fueling is doing? All you now is that some geezer called Mick said it's ok! If thats good enough for you...

can you post some of these facts up then please, so far all i've seen from you is "i don't think the fuelling can be right"

If you'd like to go back through some of my previous psost on this thread you will see where I have expertly analysed the dyno graph, giving my opinion on where and when torque and power levels come into play.

where have i said anything about what the 16T can or can't do, what i did say is Volvo choose the 19T for a reason, & considering its so "over-rated" i would be just as interested to know why

It's what you implyed when making your commenst about using the 19t on the 265bhp V70R.

don't the T-5's use KKK series turbos like the R's? I doubt i'll be seeing Mick again, but i'll make a note of the question for you & see if he can shed any light on it

Only after 2005 did the S60 T5 use a KKK turbo. Up until then they still used a 16t. If there's anything else I can help you with let me know...

if you actually look FFM hasn't got that many mods (no offence Paul), he's still running a standard CAT, standard backbox & airbox

V70R manifold, 19t, 960 throttle body?

if the aim was to see who can put the other to sleep first then yes you win, congratulations you've won a bananna lol

mmmmm I like bananas.

ps, im getting good at the multquote thing aint I.

**t5 pete** · Friday 15th May 2009, 20:48

Originally Posted by p fandango

lol. I don't know about popcorn, think Redbull would be a better choice (hope the argument doesn't start about which energy drink is better now lol)

No no red bull isnt the best my drinking engineer super pat says we should be going down the asdas own make route.
If i had the two of them in front of me and didnt have to pay for them i would always go asda's own make and im sure super pat knows whats hes on about

**S70T5Chris** · Friday 15th May 2009, 20:49

Originally Posted by p fandango

now i feel we're getting somewhere, & what if the 19T wasn't at the over-exaggerated price that you've put on it. As i said i only paid £500 for a brand-new 19T & i do know FFM didn't pay anywhere near £450 for his second-hand one?

Fecking hell - you're new one for £500 was a one off, you were lucky to get it at that price. You were in the right place at the right time so to speak!

Did he pay £100 for it? Thats how much I paid for my low mileage 16t.

Don't forget the custom remap you'll need for a 19t...

**t5 pete** · Friday 15th May 2009, 20:51

Theres the new 19t's on ebay for £500 delivered

**S70T5Chris** · Friday 15th May 2009, 20:54

i do enjoy a good banter & hope everyone is taking it as lighthearted as i am & intending it to be

We don't all have to agree on everything.

But i'm right...

**S70T5Chris** · Friday 15th May 2009, 20:56

Originally Posted by t5 pete

Theres the new 19t's on ebay for £500 delivered

yeah but would you risk buying one of them from Japan? would there be import duty on that? probably.

**p fandango** · Friday 15th May 2009, 20:58

Originally Posted by S70T5Chris

You have no idea what the fueling is doing? All you now is that some geezer called Mick said it's ok! If thats good enough for you...

that'll be Mick who owns this place http://www.hitechmotorsport.co.uk/index.htm, so yes if he's happy then thats good enough for me

If you'd like to go back through some of my previous psost on this thread you will see where I have expertly analysed the dyno graph, giving my opinion on where and when torque and power levels come into play.

i did actually say they were gentle during the lower rpm's because of the clutch slipping, i hope that doesn't affect your "expert" opinion on it too muchh lol

Only after 2005 did the S60 T5 use a KKK turbo. Up until then they still used a 16t. If there's anything else I can help you with let me know...

i'm an 850 man so not really cared about anything after them tbh so thanks for your info, can you knowledge go as far as to help with a suggestion as to why Volvo preferred the 19T tho?

V70R manifold, 19t, 960 throttle body?

exactly, not a huge list is it (again no offence Paul)

mmmmm I like bananas.

glad i could help

ps, im getting good at the multquote thing aint I.

i'm impressed, where will your talents end

**p fandango** · Friday 15th May 2009, 21:03

Originally Posted by S70T5Chris

Fecking hell - you're new one for £500 was a one off, you were lucky to get it at that price.

As t5-pete has posted they are readily available at that price, i can't see any reason why the country of origin should be of any concern (you do know your car was imported from Sweden don't you? lol)

Did he pay £100 for it? Thats how much I paid for my low mileage 16t.

no it was more than £100, perhaps "You were in the right place at the right time so to speak!" lol

Don't forget the custom remap you'll need for a 19t...

WRONG lol

**t5 pete** · Friday 15th May 2009, 21:08

Originally Posted by S70T5Chris

yeah but would you risk buying one of them from Japan? would there be import duty on that? probably.

To be truthfull if i had the money i would and cannot see why they should be any difference from anywhere else also the japs enginering is pretty good.
As to import duty i havent got a clue but how much do they sell for over here.
Also if i were to do a turbo upgrade i would also preffer to fit a new turbo as to one that has covered a good few thousand miles.

**S70T5Chris** · Friday 15th May 2009, 21:08

I'm not really sure how this detriated into a 16t v 19t agument. I'm not saying the 19t is crap. But IMO it's not all it's hyped up to be, certainly not without an appropriate remap.

The only reason I got involved in this thread was because FFM made a statement saying that you could fit a 19t, and without a remap get as good results or better than with a remap. After looking at the graph of his car. I disagree.

**S70T5Chris** · Friday 15th May 2009, 21:10

Originally Posted by t5 pete

To be truthfull if i had the money i would and cannot see why they should be any difference from anywhere else also the japs enginering is pretty good.
As to import duty i havent got a clue but how much do they sell for over here.
Also if i were to do a turbo upgrade i would also preffer to fit a new turbo as to one that has covered a good few thousand miles.

My point being that should you have any problems, it would be a huge pain in the arse. Not that Japan is dodgy! There are some pretty cheapo built turbos out there, so you do need to be slightly careful.

A new 19t from the dealer is around £650 on an exchange basis.

**p fandango** · Friday 15th May 2009, 21:10

Originally Posted by S70T5Chris

yeah but would you risk buying one of them from Japan? would there be import duty on that? probably.

i've only brought from America & yes had to pay duty, my bro has brought many things from Japan & they wrap/declare them as gifts to get around paying duty on it

**Enigma666** · Friday 15th May 2009, 21:16

Do I or don't I get involved.....sadly I have opted yes.

Why remap over FPR and MBC...well....because it is safer...better? who knows....safer....I would say so, raising the fuel pressure at the rail is good for geting more fuel through the injectors, but they have to be large enough to accept that much fuel otherwise the duty cycle goes all over the place....aim for 80% DC and you should be laughing

If you are going the MBC FPR route then it is safer to get an AFR guage too and check out those figures, also an EGT guage is lovely when going to a bigger turbo.

In short....I am going Garrett so I will beat a 19T and 16T