new turbo... which one?

[S70T5Chris]

Sorry just realised the link to the dyno graph in your sig! Not wishing to put down what you've achieved, i'm fairly impressed that you haven't had a remap. You say its producing 290hp, which yes I agree it is, but at 6500rpm? what use it that? My car (16t) produces over 300hp at 4500rpm. At 4500rpm your producing approx 220bhp. My car produces 375lb/ft torque at 4000rpm. 250lb/ft at 4750rpm is not exaclty impressive. You would see much higher gains with a proper remap. I would also like to see an afr/lamda plot, I would be very suprised if the fueling is ok.

[p fandango]

Sorry just realised the link to the dyno graph in your sig! Not wishing to put down what you've achieved, i'm fairly impressed that you haven't had a remap. You say its producing 290hp, which yes I agree it is, but at 6500rpm? what use it that?

having been in the car i can say the power is very usable, even with Paul shorter shiftiing than i would (i would of thrown it down a gear to overtake etc) it still had more than enough get-up-&-go than needed. Having not driven my own car for a while i'm just hoping he hasn't overtaken me on the power front lol

My car (16t) produces over 300hp at 4500rpm. At 4500rpm your producing approx 220bhp. My car produces 375lb/ft torque at 4000rpm. 250lb/ft at 4750rpm is not exaclty impressive. You would see much higher gains with a proper remap.

well done, & how much did your hybrid turbo & mapping cost? (& i bet your running alot more than 15psi). If you read all the post by either myself or FFM we have never argued you'll get more power with a remap, we're just experimenting with alternative ways

I would also like to see an afr/lamda plot, I would be very suprised if the fueling is ok.

If Mick with all his motor-racing experience (both building cars & racing them) says the fuelling is spot-on, then i think it is pretty much guaranteed the fuelling is ok. The car was put thru many slower build-up runs on the dyno before the power runs which the fueling & boost was checked to make you it was ok before being put thru the tougher power runs

[S70T5Chris]

having been in the car i can say the power is very usable, even with Paul shorter shiftiing than i would (i would of thrown it down a gear to overtake etc) it still had more than enough get-up-&-go than needed. Having not driven my own car for a while i'm just hoping he hasn't overtaken me on the power front lol


well done, & how much did your hybrid turbo & mapping cost? (& i bet your running alot more than 15psi). If you read all the post by either myself or FFM we have never argued you'll get more power with a remap, we're just experimenting with alternative ways


If Mick with all his motor-racing experience (both building cars & racing them) says the fuelling is spot-on, then i think it is pretty much guaranteed the fuelling is ok. The car was put thru many slower build-up runs on the dyno before the power runs which the fueling & boost was checked to make you it was ok before being put thru the tougher power runs

I'm not using a hybrid turbo. I'm using a 16t from an S60 T5. Granted my setup has cost more than the £800 spent on FlyinFridge's car, but simlar results to my car can be accomplished for much less than I have spent. Ok my 16t is running 1.25 Bar, hardly a collosal difference.

I'm not trying to slate the results on FFM's car, it's ok. But i'm far from impressed. Whacking on a MBC and upping the fuel pressure till it's maxed out IS NOT a good alternative to a decent remap IMO.

I would still like to see an AFR plot.

[p fandango]

I'm not trying to slate the results on FFM's car, it's ok. But i'm far from impressed. Whacking on a MBC and upping the fuel pressure till it's maxed out IS NOT a good alternative to a decent remap IMO.

no offence intended but given the choice of "your opinion" or that of a professional racer/engine builder which do you think i'd go with? Again if you read my posts you will see i've always agreed you will get more power with a remap, i'm just trying to show you don't have to be a sheep & you can try other mods to get results you'll be happy with

I would still like to see an AFR plot.

i'm afraid he didn't get one, we only got BHP & torque & i think the printer struggled with that lol

[PaulZX]

To be honest, I'm a little confused as to why the torque figure is so low, it was 275lb/ft @4250rpm on the standard eqipment +an mbc, I thought the torque would go up over the 300lb/ft mark after this work. Could the iffy actuator cause that?

[S70T5Chris]

no offence intended but given the choice of "your opinion" or that of a professional racer/engine builder which do you think i'd go with? Again if you read my posts you will see i've always agreed you will get more power with a remap, i'm just trying to show you don't have to be a sheep & you can try other mods to get results you'll be happy with


i'm afraid he didn't get one, we only got BHP & torque & i think the printer struggled with that lol

So what you're saying is your 'proffesional' racer/engine builder is of the opinion that manually controlling the boost by an MBC and cranking the fuel pressure up to the limit is better than having a 'proffesional' remap of the engine management system? I highly doubt it. I can't give my opinion on the AFR's as I haven't seen them.

I don't claim to know everything about everything. I just think it is very nieve to make a statement saying that a remap is uneccessary, it is IMO.

Judging by the dyno graph, it is my opinion that you would have ended up with a more drivable, better performing car, by simply getting an off the shelf remap for the standard car with the 15g. IMO the 19t is wasted with the current set up. You would probably see a lower 'peak' HP. But what's the point in having 290BHP at 6500rpm, right before you hit the limiter?!

Fair play for trying to be different, and 'if' you can end up with great results without the need for a remap, that's great. But I don't think thats what you've accomplished here.

[S70T5Chris]

To be honest, I'm a little confused as to why the torque figure is so low, it was 275lb/ft @4250rpm on the standard eqipment +an mbc, I thought the torque would go up over the 300lb/ft mark after this work. Could the iffy actuator cause that?

If you want my adivce, get saving for a custom remap. You've gone to all the effort and expense to achieve what you have so far. To really make the most of it, you need a good map.

You're currently not producing a stack more torque than the standard car! But the standard car produces it's peak torque much lower down the rev range making it much more drivable and responsive than what you've got now.

[p fandango]

So what you're saying is your 'proffesional' racer/engine builder is of the opinion that manually controlling the boost by an MBC and cranking the fuel pressure up to the limit is better than having a 'proffesional' remap of the engine management system? I highly doubt it. I can't give my opinion on the AFR's as I haven't seen them.

perhaps you can point out where in the thread Mick's opinion on ECU's/remapping has been posted? What has been said he was happy that the FFM's fuelling was spot-on.

Judging by the dyno graph, it is my opinion that you would have ended up with a more drivable, better performing car, by simply getting an off the shelf remap for the standard car with the 15g. IMO the 19t is wasted with the current set up. You would probably see a lower 'peak' HP. But what's the point in having 290BHP at 6500rpm, right before you hit the limiter?!

in your defence a description of the graph has not been posted here, but Mick took the lower end of the run easy as he experienced the clutch slipping which is why the graph is such a step & jumpy. 290bhp from a 15g lmao

Fair play for trying to be different, and 'if' you can end up with great results without the need for a remap, that's great. But I don't think thats what you've accomplished here.

i suppose that depends what you class as good results, having both driven many off-the-shelf remapped cars i know which is the more exciting drive. Having driven a remap from all the main companies & not being impressed really by any of them is the main reason i've stuck with MBC's/EBC's

PS just to show i'm not totally disagreeing with you my next mod is to sort the engine management

[S70T5Chris]

perhaps you can point out where in the thread Mick's opinion on ECU's/remapping has been posted? What has been said he was happy that the FFM's fuelling was spot-on.


in your defence a description of the graph has not been posted here, but Mick took the lower end of the run easy as he experienced the clutch slipping which is why the graph is such a step & jumpy. 290bhp from a 15g lmao


i suppose that depends what you class as good results, having both driven many off-the-shelf remapped cars i know which is the more exciting drive. Having driven a remap from all the main companies & not being impressed really by any of them is the main reason i've stuck with MBC's/EBC's

PS just to show i'm not totally disagreeing with you my next mod is to sort the engine management

You don't read so good do you...

My opinion was that a remap would be better than what you have done here. You then said you'd take the opinion of Super Mick (whoever this is) over mine. Implying that he thinks different to this. As I said earlier I haven't made an opinion on the fueling as I haven't seen what it's doing, only that i'd be suprised if it was bang on.

Where have I said 290bhp from a 15g? What I said was, if you read it again, that is my opinion that a remapped 15g would give a more drivable/useabale car than what you have here. YOU WOULD NOT SEE AS HIGHER 'PEAK' BHP, most likely, but overall end up with something better in terms of where the power and torque come in IMO.

Peak HP/torque doesn't mean £££££. What is relevant is at what point the HP/torque comes in at what revs, and how long it is sustained for. Although you've achieved a 'result' here, I think what you've really proved is that you can't get a really good result unless you have a remap.

'290bhp from a 15g lmao' Going back to this - I have seen car's producing this kind of power with a 15g. The 15g and 16t are highly underated and for some reason the 19t is seen as the holy grail of the turbo volvo world. Yes you would see a slightly higher top end performance from a 19t, it is bigger (but only a smidge), but not earth shatteringly different like most believe.

[Alan M]

Shaun850 pulled 340hp IIRC with a 15g on a Dyno dynamics roller a few weeks back.

[p fandango]

You don't read so good do you...

badly read, or badly written who knows lol

My opinion was that a remap would be better than what you have done here. You then said you'd take the opinion of Super Mick (whoever this is) over mine. Implying that he thinks different to this.

as we never even spoke to "Super Mick" about ECU's or remapping nor can i post on his behalf i have never given any of Mick's opinions on them. My comment about taking his word over yours was referring to the fuelling

As I said earlier I haven't made an opinion on the fueling as I haven't seen what it's doing, only that i'd be suprised if it was bang on.

is it me or is that a double negative, you "being surprised if it was bang on" isn't your opinion then?

Where have I said 290bhp from a 15g? What I said was, if you read it again, that is my opinion that a remapped 15g would give a more drivable/useabale car than what you have here. YOU WOULD NOT SEE AS HIGHER 'PEAK' BHP, most likely, but overall end up with something better in terms of where the power and torque come in IMO.

having been in the FFM i can vouch for how drivable it is, having used both 15g & currently a 19t on my own car i would even go as far to say it now spools just as (if not quicker) than the 15g did. & as you've pointed out with the bhp figure being so high up the scale doesn't it show the 19t hasn't even broke into a sweat, while the 15g will be starting to lose power due to the heat upto of being overworked? With a better boost controller & increasing the fuel more there has got to be more power to come out of it

'290bhp from a 15g lmao' Going back to this - I have seen car's producing this kind of power with a 15g. The 15g and 16t are highly underated and for some reason the 19t is seen as the holy grail of the turbo volvo world. Yes you would see a slightly higher top end performance from a 19t, it is bigger (but only a smidge), but not earth shatteringly different like most believe.

i've also seen the result of the 15g running over 300bhp, wasn't that at the same dyno day that high-mileage standard T-5's were running 225bhp@wheels. & even the owner of the highest bhp Volvo of the day even questioned how accurate the figure was?

[PaulZX]

only time will tell... I'm using less fuel, going faster, and feeling smoother, oh and the redline seems to have shifted almost 1,000rpm higher... anyone care to explain that one to me?

lmao @ SUPER MICK!!! his mrs would be howling at that one....

To be fair, when I pulled in there, he said I'd get better from a remap, and I've never said I'm getting better than a remap, what I've said is that you don't HAVE to have a remap, to get similar results...

Someone needs to take a chill pill.....

[S70T5Chris]

only time will tell... I'm using less fuel, going faster, and feeling smoother, oh and the redline seems to have shifted almost 1,000rpm higher... anyone care to explain that one to me?

lmao @ SUPER MICK!!! his mrs would be howling at that one....

To be fair, when I pulled in there, he said I'd get better from a remap, and I've never said I'm getting better than a remap, what I've said is that you don't HAVE to have a remap, to get similar results...

Someone needs to take a chill pill.....

Yeah - Pedro Fandoobywatsit!!

Fair do's. But I don't really understand why you're so against getting the car remapped tho? You've gone to all this effort and got some good parts fitted. Why not make the most of them? Or at least make better use of them!

I'm glad your happy with your car, thats all that matters at the end of the day. But I don't think many people will be following you down the non-remap route.

I haven't any bones to pick with you mate. It's your car, do what you want, I do, if people disagree thats up to them! It's just IMO the route you've taken is not a serious alternative to getting a custom remap.

On a serious note, not picking holes, just interested! - Do you know what the Afr's/Lambda was through the rev range? Just for your own piece of mind? I know 'Mick The Magnificent' (who is Mick? I have no idea, i'm sure he probably knows his stuff and is a great guy! Clearly he's Pedros Idol!) said it's ok, but if it were my car i'd want to know. I've been on the recieving end of melted pistons and it's not nice!

[S70T5Chris]

Why can't I do the multi-quote thingy? I am a simple, sorry.

badly read, or badly written who knows lol
Maybe badly written. But probably badly read. I refuse to belive that my writings are to blame

as we never even spoke to "Super Mick" about ECU's or remapping nor can i post on his behalf i have never given any of Mick's opinions on them. My comment about taking his word over yours was referring to the fuelling
You're getting confused aren't you? I haven't commented on the fueling, because it's being kept a secret from everyone.

is it me or is that a double negative, you "being surprised if it was bang on" isn't your opinion then?
Sort of i suppose if your being picky! I can't form an opinion on the fueling as the results are being closely guarded by BatMick and Robin. But I have a feeling that, most likely, they are far from optimum. Some would say thats an opinion, some would say a prediction.

having been in the FFM i can vouch for how drivable it is, having used both 15g & currently a 19t on my own car i would even go as far to say it now spools just as (if not quicker) than the 15g did. & as you've pointed out with the bhp figure being so high up the scale doesn't it show the 19t hasn't even broke into a sweat, while the 15g will be starting to lose power due to the heat upto of being overworked? With a better boost controller & increasing the fuel more there has got to be more power to come out of it
You've picked up on something there that I would like to (hang on a minute, don't faint) AGREE WITH YOU on! Everyone is under some illusion that a 19t is this huge turbo that takes ages to spool up. Not so, as you've pointed out. The 19t spools up plenty quick enough. But in the same breath it's not the ginormous improvement over a 16t that everyone is also lead to believe. It's a little bigger, and does give slightly better midrange and top end, but it's still a small turbo in the grand scheme of things.


i've also seen the result of the 15g running over 300bhp, wasn't that at the same dyno day that high-mileage standard T-5's were running 225bhp@wheels. & even the owner of the highest bhp Volvo of the day even questioned how accurate the figure was?
I'm not sure of the dyno day you're referring to. The car i'm aware of was at the Powerstation dyno day last year. I don't believe there were any standard cars running that day.

So, to summerize. I'm right, you're wrong.

[p fandango]

Why can't I do the multi-quote thingy? I am a simple, sorry.

its exactly the same process as normal quoting, only you add the the quote brackets ( [ quote] [ / quote ] ) to each paragraph you wish to seperate

Maybe badly written. But probably badly read. I refuse to belive that my writings are to blame

again i guess thats just a matter of opinion, what might make sense to you as you wrote it might not be as clear to Joe Bloggs lol

You're getting confused aren't you? I haven't commented on the fueling, because it's being kept a secret from everyone.

lol the fuelling hasn't been kept secret, as i've said in several posts we didn't get a fuel print out, nor did we see any graphs for it (not that it would make any sense to me tbh). We were told its ok & no reason to doubt it

Sort of i suppose if your being picky! I can't form an opinion on the fueling as the results are being closely guarded by BatMick and Robin. But I have a feeling that, most likely, they are far from optimum. Some would say thats an opinion, some would say a prediction.

if your "prediction" was based on any sort of fact or information this thread would probably be half the size lol. You seem to be doubting a reputable engine builder, who had the car in question on the dyno, hooked upto the most complex machine i have ever seen on a dyno with no reason why?

You've picked up on something there that I would like to (hang on a minute, don't faint) AGREE WITH YOU on! Everyone is under some illusion that a 19t is this huge turbo that takes ages to spool up. Not so, as you've pointed out. The 19t spools up plenty quick enough. But in the same breath it's not the ginormous improvement over a 16t that everyone is also lead to believe. It's a little bigger, and does give slightly better midrange and top end, but it's still a small turbo in the grand scheme of things.

could we be getting somewhere, NAH lol. Let me throw another span in the works, throwing the forum favorite question into the mix why did Volvo think it needed to use the 19T on a car which they only intended to produce 265bhp (V70R AWD limited edition) if it could of easily done it with a 16T & a remap

I'm not sure of the dyno day you're referring to. The car i'm aware of was at the Powerstation dyno day last year. I don't believe there were any standard cars running that day.

sounds like a different one to the example i know. IF its right tho credit to him, i'm guessing there were plenty of other mods to go with it

So, to summerize. I'm right, you're wrong.

if you say so , tbh i'm getting a bit bored now lol

[yellowt5r]

As i need a new turbo for my c70 me7, i want to up grade....
Which one is the best to buy ( not for silly money). and ware from?
Dose any one have any ideas?



oh dose any one no if my car will run without the cat? as i want to get rid of it when the stainless goes on next weekend,will it go in to limp mode or throw up lights on the dash? or is it best to put on a sport cat?

fandango your missing the thread completly

the guy dont have loads of cash to spend (so there goes the well OVER RATED 19T)

angled 16T WILL give you a very good performance as tim has already stated with a good map at a resonable cost far LESS than the 19t

there 2 pages of crap when thats all what was needed

[p fandango]

]fandango your missing the thread completly

i do agree the thread has gone a bit off topic, but i do hope the OP has got enough information to help him out

the guy dont have loads of cash to spend

FFM brought is 19T for not much more than i would expect to pay for a good 16T, i only paid £500 delivered for a brand-new genuine Volvo 19T which i think is quite reasonable

(so there goes the well OVER RATED 19T)

perhaps you missed this from Chris

The 19t spools up plenty quick enough. But in the same breath it's not the ginormous improvement over a 16t that everyone is also lead to believe. It's a little bigger, and does give slightly better midrange and top end, but it's still a small turbo in the grand scheme of things.

to me that sounds like Chris is saying the 19T is better than a 16T, i'm not sure how anyone can measure how much better a turbo is as it depends on what you want from your car. But any improvement is a good improvement in my eyes

there 2 pages of crap when thats all what was needed

as i said this post has probably gone on a bit, but i disagree with you that other people shouldn't be allowed to post there opinions up just because you think the 16T is better choice

[S70T5Chris]

its exactly the same process as normal quoting, only you add the the quote brackets ( [ quote] [ / quote ] ) to each paragraph you wish to seperate

Woohoo I'm a genious.

again i guess thats just a matter of opinion, what might make sense to you as you wrote it might not be as clear to Joe Bloggs lol

Well clearly thats not my fault!

lol the fuelling hasn't been kept secret, as i've said in several posts we didn't get a fuel print out, nor did we see any graphs for it (not that it would make any sense to me tbh). We were told its ok & no reason to doubt it

I know it's not a secret, i'm jesting. If you want to live in blissful ignorance thats up to you!

if your "prediction" was based on any sort of fact or information this thread would probably be half the size lol. You seem to be doubting a reputable engine builder, who had the car in question on the dyno, hooked upto the most complex machine i have ever seen on a dyno with no reason why?

Its just my prediction thats all. Most of what i've said is based on fact. I can see the dyno plot, and interprit it, and therefore can make comments based on that!

could we be getting somewhere, NAH lol. Let me throw another span in the works, throwing the forum favorite question into the mix why did Volvo think it needed to use the 19T on a car which they only intended to produce 265bhp (V70R AWD limited edition) if it could of easily done it with a 16T & a remap

Good question. But are you saying that a 16t can't easily produce 265bhp? Why did volvo not use the 19t on the S60 T5 then? I can't answer that question really, maybe Mick knows?

sounds like a different one to the example i know. IF its right tho credit to him, i'm guessing there were plenty of other mods to go with it

A few yes, but not massively more than FFM's mods.

if you say so , tbh i'm getting a bit bored now lol

Does that mean I win?!

[yellowt5r]

i do agree the thread has gone a bit off topic, but i do hope the OP has got enough information to help him out

after all these posts i bet more confused


FFM brought is 19T for not much more than i would expect to pay for a good 16T, i only paid £500 delivered for a brand-new genuine Volvo 19T which i think is quite reasonable

reasonable if your will to spend £350 more for not much more performance (like to see proof if its soooo much better)


perhaps you missed this from Chris

to me that sounds like Chris is saying the 19T is better than a 16T, i'm not sure how anyone can measure how much better a turbo is as it depends on what you want from your car. But any improvement is a good improvement in my eyes

yes your right only cost would come into it

as i said this post has probably gone on a bit, but i disagree with you that other people shouldn't be allowed to post there opinions up just because you think the 16T is better choice

its cheaper choice/as good in performance wise thats the point

[S70T5Chris]

to me that sounds like Chris is saying the 19T is better than a 16T, i'm not sure how anyone can measure how much better a turbo is as it depends on what you want from your car. But any improvement is a good improvement in my eyes

Ok. If you presented me with 2 turbos and I had to pick one, a 19t and a 16t, I didn't have to pay for them, just pick one. I'd have the 19t. As i've agreed, it has mildly better mid range and top end than a 16t. But by how much? Not a feckin bucket load by any stretch of the imagination. If I had to buy a decent second hand turbo and had to choose between a £450 19t and a £100 16t, I'd have the 16t all day long. The minor improvement you get from a 19t is not worth the extra money.

A 19t is not the big laggy turbo that people think (good thing, by the way), and in the same breathe it's not the big huge power producing turbo that people think either.

God this is turning into another 16t v 19t debate.

But... what you've done with FFM's car, I don't believe to be that good a result. I rekon you'd have ended up with a better drive, by just getting one of McCabletie's knocked off jobbies on the standard 15g.