Possible Dyno Day@bhpTuner Leeds

**Wobbly Dave** · Monday 2nd February 2009, 18:06

Irf as in "what on IRF are you wittering about" - Your childish arguement was the sly dig - about over this overtaking thing. That's what I object to. You grasp of the English Language is obviously as vague as your grasp about the facts relating to Power vs Torque.

What I have said all along is the long flat torque curve is the what you need for good power. The relationship is instantaneous as Joules points out. The only other thing I would say is the only cumulative aspect is the area under the torque curve - which gives a useful expression of how the car drives. The shape is important.

**irf** · Monday 2nd February 2009, 18:18

don't think it was sly or a dig. gloating would be more apt

i wont say what i'd really like to say, i'll just get banned.

**Loadsamiles** · Monday 2nd February 2009, 18:58

Originally Posted by irf

thank you joules, that's explained it a bit better.

saying things like "childish argument" as dave said above just gets peoples backs up. it did mine.

it's easy to say things like that on a forum which is why i dont. would he come across like that in person? i'd hope not.

still think he's bitter for being overtaken by a 280bhp volvo

I kind of got the slant of what you were saying...... Or at least I think I may have done..

I don't think anybody who knows anything is swayed by MAX BHP figures as figures alone.

Without a graph they are meaningless. A spike could make your figures look pretty, but in reality is of no use at all.

Ideally the car needs a good smooth and constant application of power (Torque) to the road to enable it to progress well. Realistically you want an even and flat as possible torque delivery for a bit longer than a gear ratio.

If your gears are stepping at 2,000 RPM then you would need about 3,000 RPM of good even delivery. to give you a smooth and useful drive. If you get even more then you can be really lazy with your gear changes and the car becomes very forgiving. Anything 2,000 RPM or less and you're going to be going on and off the boil all the time (Rather like many turbo diesels) lurching from gear to gear. The closer to 2,000 RPM the power band gets the less forgiving the car becomes of inaccurate gear changes, and the more chance you stand of finding yourself with a box full of the wrong gears.

You are right..... There is no meaning in a spot figure.

**Loadsamiles** · Monday 2nd February 2009, 19:14

Hey!!!

Here's a very good explanation of how BHP and torque are linked and work together...

Enjoy!

http://www.vettenet.org/torquehp.html

**cragmaz** · Monday 2nd February 2009, 19:15

Ok Guys, Seems like were going a bit too deep into this "Debate" and off topic,so back to the "job-in-hand"

Dyno day gunna be late march/early april, and def. on a sunday,
just "putting the feelers out" at the moment,to guage interest, so basically, who`s up for it??, -- put your name below if you are, i`ll start

1. Me, (cragmaz) 855 T5
2. t5 Pete

**t5 pete** · Monday 2nd February 2009, 19:24

count me in i need to do the timing first but after that i will deff run the car on the rollers

**cragmaz** · Monday 2nd February 2009, 19:38

Originally Posted by t5 pete

count me in i need to do the timing first but after that i will deff run the car on the rollers

Cool matey!

, quite a spec you have there, what Bhp you got?

**cragmaz** · Monday 2nd February 2009, 19:45

Dyno day gunna be late march/early april, and def. on a sunday,
just "putting the feelers out" at the moment,to guage interest, so basically, who`s up for it??, -- put your name below if you are, i`ll start

1. Me, (cragmaz) 855 T5
2. t5 Pete

**t5 pete** · Monday 2nd February 2009, 20:14

Originally Posted by cragmaz

Cool matey!

, quite a spec you have there, what Bhp you got?

it ran 217 at the wheels but found out the timing is out so when the better weather is here i will sort that out and the get the car on the rollers at leeds to see what shes producing

**cragmaz** · Monday 2nd February 2009, 21:18

Originally Posted by t5 pete

it ran 217 at the wheels but found out the timing is out so when the better weather is here i will sort that out and the get the car on the rollers at leeds to see what shes producing

still not bad, must be about 265/275 @ flywheel (???)

Craig

**t5 pete** · Monday 2nd February 2009, 21:23

Originally Posted by cragmaz

still not bad, must be about 265/275 @ flywheel (???)

Craig

IIRC the flywheel was 227 or around which is a very very little loss so it will be intresting to she what you bro in laws dyno says i know tomcat car with the same map as myne got 267 (i think) at the wheels but i cannot remember what fly it made

**cragmaz** · Monday 2nd February 2009, 21:34

Originally Posted by t5 pete

IIRC the flywheel was 227 or around which is a very very little loss so it will be intresting to she what you bro in laws dyno says i know tomcat car with the same map as myne got 267 (i think) at the wheels but i cannot remember what fly it made

Hmmmmmm, thats really odd, so it only lost 10bhp from flywheel to wheel hp, (if i am understanding you properly), mine was on a couple of weeks ago and made bang on 250 (with my standard ecu) @flywheel, with 193 @ wheels.
Is your a manual or auto?

craig

**t5 pete** · Monday 2nd February 2009, 21:36

its manual

**cragmaz** · Monday 2nd February 2009, 21:38

Originally Posted by t5 pete

its manual

Ok, ......................wierd!!!!!

with the mods you have done, it should be at least 260brake@ flywheel, 227 sounds really not good, considering 225 is the standard power output from your engine, and to only loose 10bhp sounds very wrong too.
Just my opinion,......... for what its worth.
C

**t5 pete** · Monday 2nd February 2009, 21:47

Originally Posted by cragmaz

Ok, ......................wierd!!!!!

with the mods you have done, it should be at least 260brake@ flywheel, 227 sounds really not good, considering 225 is the standard power output from your engine, and to only loose 10bhp sounds very wrong too.
Just my opinonn=, for what its worth.
C

Thats where the timing come in i need to sort the timing out i was talking to pookie and just being a tooth out could cause the poor figures i got

**cragmaz** · Monday 2nd February 2009, 21:56

Originally Posted by t5 pete

Thats where the timing come in i need to sort the timing out i was talking to pookie and just being a tooth out could cause the poor figures i got

Right, Just been doing some calculations on some of our past dyno`ed vehicles, and on avarage, there is a 18/20 percent loss from flywheel BHP, to Wheel BHP, obviously some cars will be more an some will be less.

How does your car drive at the mo. then?, is it obvious something is wrong?, have you had the timing belt replaced recently (in-correctly)?
personally, i wunt even drive it if thats the case, until you get it sorted

C

**t5 pete** · Monday 2nd February 2009, 22:01

yeah i replaced the belt when i had the head off t5he car drives brilliant and does pull hard i have 303 tourque at the dyno i have talked to a few people and all have said the car would run fine if the timing is a tooth out, just down on power theres enough clearence not to cause any problems i just looking forward to when ive got it done there should be a bit of a difference

**cragmaz** · Wednesday 4th February 2009, 17:13

Originally Posted by cragmaz

Dyno day gunna be late march/early april, and def. on a sunday,
just "putting the feelers out" at the moment,to guage interest, so basically, who`s up for it??, -- put your name below if you are, i`ll start

1. Me, (cragmaz) 855 T5
2. t5 Pete

Hi guys, if we dont get at least 10, we wont be able to go ahead

no point in me trying to arrange a date if we dont get enough people, only 2 of us so far

C`mon chaps!!!

cheers
craig