Reverse flow intercooler pipe work

[p fandango]

What was modified about the Throttle body Pedro?

i smoothed it out internally mate, had quite a ridge inside like the 850 one does


960 on the left, 850 on the right

[850twr]

thats huge in comparison! is it a straight bolt-on swap? altho i guess my standard hose wouldn't go over that. and can the TPS be swapped between the two?

[Tomcat]

Yup, we defo need more info on this swap please.

[p fandango]

thats huge in comparison! is it a straight bolt-on swap? altho i guess my standard hose wouldn't go over that. and can the TPS be swapped between the two?

it does bolt straight on but the manifold opening needs enlarging, & yes you'll need a 76mm pipe onto it (standard is 55mm). The TPS does fit straight on but angled the opposite way so the 3 wire need extending

[p fandango]

Yup, we defo need more info on this swap please.

it does take quite alot of the slow speed drivability out of it, very jerky at around town speeds. I fitted the enlarged MAF, enlarged reverse flow kit & new cone filter at the same time so can't confirm what made the most difference out of the lot (but i do know i like it )

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rQAYXfmhco[/ame]

[Enigma666]

Nice brake squeel there Duane lol somebody didn't copper grease them bad boys up properly lol

[p fandango]

Nice brake squeel there Duane lol somebody didn't copper grease them bad boys up properly lol

or copper grease them at all thinking about it lol

[Enigma666]

lol

[850twr]

nice vid fandango, should of given it a bit more tho :p lol, glad to see im not the only who has a loose led/alarm thingy on the dash.

[p fandango]

nice vid fandango, should of given it a bit more tho :p lol, glad to see im not the only who has a loose led/alarm thingy on the dash.

the video was the first time i'd drove it with the new pipework so took it easy incase any blew off (don't worry she'll be back on the strip as early as poss this year). As for the alarm LED i've binned that now, too heavy lol

[dangerstevie]

IMHO the enlarged throttle body is not required until you are flowing LOTS of air, like 500+ bhp. The std bore throttle gives excellent drivability and very good flow, if you absolutly have to you can smooth off the tiny bolts that hold the butterfly in position, that will help keep the air slightly more laminar and less turbulant but it really wont make much difference. As duane said the larger throttle makes things jerky and makes the throttle more of a switch. it will also mess up your fuelling at part throttle because the throttle is letting in much more air for any given degree of throttle movement. You could be at 100% flow at 60-70% throttle opening with a throttle that big, yet the ECU would only see it as 60-70% of max flow and therefore only fuel for that causing it to run erratically etc etc. But the RIP setup i think is worth doing, colder is better.

[p fandango]

i don't know the theory side of much engineering (& tbh prefer trial & error & find out for myself) but there are a few things baffling me there

IMHO the enlarged throttle body is not required until you are flowing LOTS of air, like 500+ bhp. The std bore throttle gives excellent drivability and very good flow, if you absolutly have to you can smooth off the tiny bolts that hold the butterfly in position, that will help keep the air slightly more laminar and less turbulant but it really wont make much difference.

you say the 55mm standard throttle body would be enough to flow 500bhp, yet weren't happy with your canistor filter because it would strangle the engine!!

As duane said the larger throttle makes things jerky and makes the throttle more of a switch. it will also mess up your fuelling at part throttle because the throttle is letting in much more air for any given degree of throttle movement. You could be at 100% flow at 60-70% throttle opening with a throttle that big, yet the ECU would only see it as 60-70% of max flow and therefore only fuel for that causing it to run erratically etc etc. But the RIP setup i think is worth doing, colder is better.

i agree the throttle is opening sooner because of the bigger butterfly, but the ECU will still measure the correct amount of air being used from the MAF. Even with the bigger opening won't the engine only use the amount of air it needs? The standard ECU is very adaptive & learns what is going on from other sensors. I'm running a totally standard ECU & when fresh won't even tick-over my engine, after every crank the ECU trys different settings & now runs fine

as i said i already had the reverse flow, & just upgrading to 3" pipe & the throttle body has made enough of difference i can feel that i want to get it re-dyno'd because i'm expecting a 5-10bhp increase (which i don't believe is solely down to the pipework)

[dangerstevie]

The canister filter was tiny and would not flow anywhere near enough as the throttle body can, yes the engine will suck in the same amount of air but at a lower throttle opening with the bigger throttle, ie it needs less opening to flow the same amountso the TPS reading will be low for that given amount of air and therefore the fuelling and ign timing will be out, maybe not by an auful lot but it will be out.

The standard throttle body is plenty big enough for a street motor with lots of power.

[p fandango]

what i was trying to point out tho is that the map position isn't just figured out from the TPS overwise they wouldn't of bothered fitting a MAF sensor, the axis on the maps i've seen were labelled "load" & "rpm"

[dangerstevie]

And to calculate the load the ECU will use TPS as a multiplier in the fuelling algorithms. so your fuelling will be out.

[Wobbly Dave]

If anyone wants - I can get on a train and fetch to Birmingham any kits you'd like from ET. It's about an hour by train from Den Haag. Small stuff like intercooler pipes will fit quiet easily into my hand luggage and I do return regularly to the UK

[850twr]

i agree the throttle is opening sooner because of the bigger butterfly, but the ECU will still measure the correct amount of air being used from the MAF. Even with the bigger opening won't the engine only use the amount of air it needs?

Makes sense to me fandango, fueling IS done off the MAF, not the throttle position sensor. and as you said the the ecu does learn and adapt.

[redbaron]

@ wobbly dave,you're letting yourself in for quite a haul,you'll be inundated with requests now, '' can you bring me lights with you'' etc

[dangerstevie]

Ok guys, think what you like about the throttle body, its your own call

[Wobbly Dave]

@ wobbly dave,you're letting yourself in for quite a haul,you'll be inundated with requests now, '' can you bring me lights with you'' etc

so long as things are not too large or heavy - I can usually oblige. I guess the major question is - which is cheaper and more convenient. I have a feeling that TNT post will work out better in most cases. I can only carry up to 10Kg and a certain size on as hand luggage - plus no liquids more than 100ml. I wouldnt really wish to have checked luggage if possible.