RICA,MTE,SUPERCHIP.......others?

[y2blade]

hi lee i think the 280 might be a good choice as alot of people with autos seem to go for that one the thing with the 304 it hopless to try and do a fast start all you get is loads of wheel spin but when the wheels stop spinning god the car bloody picks up and is amazing on the motor ways

thats the way i'd understood it too...i'd go for the 280 personaly as my auto T5 can be a bitch to launch quick in the wet even as standard

[t5 pete]

yes thats true the 280 is for 95octain and the 304 is for 97+ octain they reccomend that you should use the shell v-power with the 304 and i think the main difference between the two is that the 304 is more aggresive i would be good if some one on here knows what psi the 280 runs

[Mrsmopp]

Ah nice one matey.

Still not sure im not into Flying Starts

Is it true that the 280 can run on 95 ron unleaded Whereas the 304 needs 97+ super unleaded ?

Cheers

Lee

Yup

x

[cameron]

Nice one Mrs M

Whats the pro's and con's between them then ?

Obviously you'd save a fortune on Petrol with the 280, but what are the performance differences ?

Im sorry if this subject has been killed to death but i need to know before i make my choice

Cheers

Lee

[y2blade]

yes thats true the 280 is for 95octain and the 304 is for 97+ octain they reccomend that you should use the shell v-power with the 304 and i think the main difference between the two is that the 304 is more aggresive i would be good if some one on here knows what psi the 280 runs

yep that's what i'd have said too^^^

[Mrsmopp]

Nice one Mrs M

Whats the pro's and con's between them then ?

Obviously you'd save a fortune on Petrol with the 280, but what are the performance differences ?

Im sorry if this subject has been killed to death but i need to know before i make my choice

Cheers

Lee

From my experience there isn't really much in it tbh, the power is more "kick in the back" with the 304 and feels more "punchy" however the 280 is that little bit smoother and easier to keep the power down.

Bear in mind though my experience of the 2 is on a 16T rather than the 15g

x

[dionbullock]

while on the subject of chips - is it possible to chip a t5 after its ben converted to lpg???

My old v70 had been superchipped first - then converted to lpg a few years later. 155k miles and its still pulling hard and going well.

[Jod T5]

Just for the record a RICA 304 will and should run perfectly well on premium unleaded (95 Ron)...The difference between the 95 and 99 Ron fuel is the benefit if allows the ignition....Basically (and i will bore you if you like) the 99 allows less fuel to be used at any given situation than 95...

You use less fuel because you can run more ignition advance (higher cyl pressure thus more efficiency) and thus get more torque from the same amount of fuel and air, which means the ecu can inject less fuel for the same torque as before.

The reason lower rons fuels make less power is that you can run to much timing advance as the cylinder pressure become so high the fuel\burn becomes unstable. with higher ron you can run more timing and thus higher cyl pressure and thus more torque and therefore more power.

Its fairly irrespective to the map you run, it just enhanses the claims made to you....For example a 304 willl never make 304..., you do realise that...!! more like 260 on a decent engine/turbo/pipework....

The MTE shelf map is less tyre shreading than the Rica, tho is does get "there" at the same time so to speak...., im fairly sure i am the only person to have detailed maps on both the RICA and MTE 850 shelf ECM's, done on the same car on the same day...., therefore please trust me they are almost exact....I have heard the Heico map is very strong tho i would probably leave it at these three for shelf maps....Custom Maps would be Marco at MTE for me....

Have fun
Cheers
Jod

[hamish]

Just for the record a RICA 304 will and should run perfectly well on premium unleaded (95 Ron)...The difference between the 95 and 99 Ron fuel is the benefit if allows the ignition....Basically (and i will bore you if you like) the 99 allows less fuel to be used at any given situation than 95...

You use less fuel because you can run more ignition advance (higher cyl pressure thus more efficiency) and thus get more torque from the same amount of fuel and air, which means the ecu can inject less fuel for the same torque as before.

The reason lower rons fuels make less power is that you can run to much timing advance as the cylinder pressure become so high the fuel\burn becomes unstable. with higher ron you can run more timing and thus higher cyl pressure and thus more torque and therefore more power.

Its fairly irrespective to the map you run, it just enhanses the claims made to you....For example a 304 willl never make 304..., you do realise that...!! more like 260 on a decent engine/turbo/pipework....

The MTE shelf map is less tyre shreading than the Rica, tho is does get "there" at the same time so to speak...., im fairly sure i am the only person to have detailed maps on both the RICA and MTE 850 shelf ECM's, done on the same car on the same day...., therefore please trust me they are almost exact....I have heard the Heico map is very strong tho i would probably leave it at these three for shelf maps....Custom Maps would be Marco at MTE for me....

Have fun
Cheers
Jod

Hi Everyone,

Jod's statement is incorrect.

Jod are you serious??
Please tell me you have just got back from the pub after drinking all day.
Your joking aren't you ??
The first three paragraphs are the biggest load of horlicks I have read on any forum for a long long time.

Everyone please be advised that ANY tuned turbo petrol car should be run on high octane fuel for best power, torque and reliability.

Regards,
Hamish.

[hamish]

what other companys are there that do ECU Upgrades in the UK ?

thanks in advance

Y2,

There are 100's of companies that can upgrade ECU's in the UK.

Regards,
Hamish.

[hamish]

while on the subject of chips - is it possible to chip a t5 after its ben converted to lpg???

My old v70 had been superchipped first - then converted to lpg a few years later. 155k miles and its still pulling hard and going well.

Yes, you can chip tune on LPG. We always recommend that you get your gas system retuned AFTER the the 'chip'.

Regards,
Hamish.

[hamish]

From my experience there isn't really much in it tbh, the power is more "kick in the back" with the 304 and feels more "punchy" however the 280 is that little bit smoother and easier to keep the power down.

Bear in mind though my experience of the 2 is on a 16T rather than the 15g

x

Moppy,

You really are the voice of sense around here.
The only difference between the 2 maps was the level of boost pressure and the amount of ignition advance. The 280 had a bit less of both so it gives a smoother and easier driving experience.

Regards,
Hamish.
P.S. I love the dog.

[hamish]

Nice one Mrs M

Whats the pro's and con's between them then ?

Obviously you'd save a fortune on Petrol with the 280, but what are the performance differences ?

Im sorry if this subject has been killed to death but i need to know before i make my choice

Cheers

Lee

Lee,

You would save very little on petrol using 95. RON is a measure of energy the higher the RON the more energy so you will go further on a litre of 99 offsetting the higher price.
Performance/power on the road, there is very little difference between the 2 maps. 304 does produce slightly better power in the right conditions as it allows the car to run a bit more boost and Ignition advance. The only significant difference WAS price and now they are both the same price

Regards,
Hamish.

[thebadger]

I'd go with the 304 purley to scare first time passengers!

Just remember about limits etc....

[Tim Williams]

Its fairly irrespective to the map you run, it just enhanses the claims made to you....For example a 304 willl never make 304..., you do realise that...!! more like 260 on a decent engine/turbo/pipework....

The MTE shelf map is less tyre shreading than the Rica, tho is does get "there" at the same time so to speak...., im fairly sure i am the only person to have detailed maps on both the RICA and MTE 850 shelf ECM's, done on the same car on the same day...., therefore please trust me they are almost exact....I have heard the Heico map is very strong tho i would probably leave it at these three for shelf maps....Custom Maps would be Marco at MTE for me....

Have fun
Cheers
Jod

Well, there've been at least two others, both run at Power Dynamics, the last being Simon Hart's T5R auto. Indeed the power graphs were near identical, more torque with the MTE though, and the RICA was running 1.3bar with an AFR of 13.1, whilst the MTE was running 1.1bar with an AFR of 11.1.As Hamish quite rightly pointed out a tuned turbo car needs to run a richer mixture...

Thanks

Tim

[cameron]

With the Rica 304 would it still pass the emissions test @ mot time if its running richer ?

Cheers

Lee

[pangster]

Well, there've been at least two others, both run at Power Dynamics, the last being Simon Hart's T5R auto. Indeed the power graphs were near identical, more torque with the MTE though, and the RICA was running 1.3bar with an AFR of 13.1, whilst the MTE was running 1.1bar with an AFR of 11.1.As Hamish quite rightly pointed out a tuned turbo car needs to run a richer mixture...

Thanks

Tim

so both the MTE and RICA maps run rich as they are both less than 14.7:1 stoichiometric.. although the RICA runs more boost.. that kind of confirms what everyone has said all along that both off the shelf maps are safe and provide good results.

I'm also surprised that these plots exist because for years (at least 2 1/2 since I've been a member) people have asked for a back to back comparison plots so they could compare the maps and no one was forth coming.

The only comparison I was aware of was someone who had both maps but this was discounted as they had an engine change in between. If your saying that there is plots of both in controlled conditions (same car, same parameters etc) on back to back runs then I'd be interested to see the results and I definately know others would be as well (Yosser for one! .

[timbo_1975]

Only running rich(er) under WOT and open loop. Idle and part load it should be exactly the same as stock.

Tim.

[pangster]

With the Rica 304 would it still pass the emissions test @ mot time if its running richer ?

Cheers

Lee

I would imagine passing the MOT with either the MTE or RICA won't be a problem else there would be a lot of failed cars!

[jez.w]

I fitted a rica 280 exchange ecu from Hamish several months ago to my low mileage t5. I now get more mpg, it passed the mot last month with lower emissions than last year? I was told that the 280 pulls harder lower in the rev range and this is why i choose it for my auto, i dont like to rev it too hard to get all the power. There are actually only slight differences in max boost pressure between 280 and 304, it is mainly how the power is delivered. Regarding the fuel, super unleaded fuel is more stable and releases it energy all at once and so the engine timing can be altered further without the mixture igniting too early on the compression stroke. When engine timing is adjusting to optimum limits for performance (Rica 304) 95 octane fuel can ignite before the piston is in the correct possition and cause engine damage. I use super unleaded fuel every other fill up even though i dont have to as i could run 95 octane all the time on the Rica 280. When i use super unleaded fuel i get more mpg but the fuel cost more. For me super unleaded only works out slightly more expensive overall so alternating super and 95 octane fuel each fill up works well.

I am very happy with 280 rica map, the low down torque and acceleration is savage now and the car has been totally transformed. If my t5 had any more power it would smoke the tyres too much and would not be able to get the power down!!