850 T5, more go.

**PNuT** · Sunday 26th October 2008, 10:17

the one thing i will never understand regarding chris car is why a AFR meter was never fitted? regardless of the age of the engine when using something that has been tuned its quite a good idea to keep an eye on whats going on! something somewere obviously went wrong & a couple of hundred quid may very well have prevented it!!

**BigV** · Sunday 26th October 2008, 10:41

Originally Posted by PNuT

99% ? thats quite a high figure

most t5's aint driven that hard for most of their lives because of the simple fact you cannot do it!

i would prefer to rely on data from individual engines & other items on the vehicle rather than looking at the speedo & making a decision from that.....

Oh come on please, pull the other one......... Now you are making generalisations!

I mean it doesn't take a genius to understand that a USED car is called USED for a reason....... it has previously be used and possibly abused and will be showing signs of wear and tear, however well maintained........ To pretend that age and mileage doesn't matter at all, especially when tuning is idiotic and I think it would be rather foolish for you to try and make that argument........... since none of us can see inside of an engine without stripping it to pieces we only have limited info to go on, and the miles on the clock is one of those pieces.

Are you one of these people that believe police cars are always maintained to the highest standards as well?

**PNuT** · Sunday 26th October 2008, 13:24

Originally Posted by BigV

Oh come on please, pull the other one......... Now you are making generalisations!

I mean it doesn't take a genius to understand that a USED car is called USED for a reason....... it has previously be used and possibly abused and will be showing signs of wear and tear, however well maintained........ To pretend that age and mileage doesn't matter at all, especially when tuning is idiotic and I think it would be rather foolish for you to try and make that argument........... since none of us can see inside of an engine without stripping it to pieces we only have limited info to go on, and the miles on the clock is one of those pieces.

Are you one of these people that believe police cars are always maintained to the highest standards as well?

a car is used after its done 10 miles from the factory... im not generalising, its fact that a T5 cannot be driven under heavy load its whole life in the same way that a smaller engined car can be....

the mileage on a clock only tells you how far that clock has been! nothing more nothing less! well unless something unlawful has taken place!

i wouldn't be foolish enough to generalise about the state of plod cars as they are maintained by different people...

maybe you can point out to us less knowledgeable people the tolerances of wear & tear that are acceptable to start modding our cars?

**hamish** · Sunday 26th October 2008, 13:30

Originally Posted by El Diablo

Sorry when have I accused you of unfairly undercutting the competition?

I was under the impression that Adam was Chiptuning to which HE had the rights to sell the Rica not yourself

Or are you telling Rica that you are Chiptuning?

Sorry!!! Yes in your first line you accuse me

"Hamish is selling a knocked off map for 50% less than any registered map("

Oh and Adam was a former employee and director of Chip Tuning Ltd which sold Rica products in the UK.

Rica are well aware that I was/am a director of Chip Tuning Ltd.

Diablo you appear to be another person who is short on factual information. Please be aware that not everything you read on T5D5 is true.

Regards,
Hamish.

**hamish** · Sunday 26th October 2008, 14:10

Originally Posted by S70T5Chris

Hamish

You can try and twist the story how you like to try and make yourself look and feel better. But the fact is after taking my money, and 3hrs later my car self destructing, you ignored me. That is the simple fact. Until that point, you were the guy who I trusted with the car, you were the guy who I thought knew his stuff, and you were the guy who in a crisis (for example, melting a piston in my engine!) I would turn to to help sort it out. But obvisouly spending in excess of £6000 with you and your company over a 3 year period doesn't entitle me to that sort of customer service. I would like to know how you could justify that treatment of me, a loyal customer, someone who has spent A LOT of money with you?

£6000 !! You are clearly prone to a bit of exagerattion.
We do not offer 24hr Roadside Assistance we leave that to the AA or RAC.

No you didnt tell me the words "F - Off", but that is what you insinuated. And as for you saying my old man called you a "F in C", that is a complete and utter fabrication, and i'm going to overlook it. You don't want to drag my father into it.

Perhaps it wasn't F in C in which case it must have been F in W it was certainly a load of Verbal Abuse.

Also just to clarify, I DIDN'T come to you asking to bolt a big turbo on my car. ADAM approached ME on the forum and said it would be a good option, then through speaking with both him and you on the phone, after hearing all the great amazing things that you would offer with this "upgrade", that's what I decided to go with.

Did I start the conversation with " look into my eyes, look into my eyes when you wake up you will buy a Hybrid Turbo" ......no? ...didn't think so.
It's easy for you to blame Adam now he's out of the picture and Chip Tuning Ltd have ceased trading! Handy. But when it all went wrong, Adam was the only person who spoke to me, then you took it upon yourself to deal with the situation, very well I might add, by ignoring me.

Adam didn't/doesn't have any money!!! It was easy for him to promise things and then expect me to get my magic cheque book out to sort them.
You say that your sure the map was reasonable, but then imply otherwise staing that by stating that Adam and Rica "closed ranks on the deatils of the map".

It was after all running a correct AFR of 12:1 through the rev rage at WOT.

There's so much I could drag up, so many unanswered question, and so many lies I was told, mostly by yourself, but Adam also.

I don't think I really told any lies I just gave you some home truths that you didn't like.

I would just like to know, what actions you would take if you mapped someones car, and a couple hours later they ring you from the road side with a knackered engine?

In the first instance , like I did with you, I would ask them what the hell had they been doing with car. If they replyed with "giving it some stick" I would probably advise them that might be the cause of their problem.
When somebody signs a dyno agreement or a tuning disclaimer they are entering into a legally binding contract. If they would like an engine warranty on their old car and roadside recovery then the answer is either no or that's going to cost you alot of money (more than £2500).

By the way, I have to ask. What was the deal with the comments about the loan car? Don't you think that was a bit childish?!

I replaced the cylinder head on that car at great expense and like an adult I put it down to experience.

Anyway, just write me a cheque, pop it in the post and we'll never mention it again!

Chris...The cheque is in the post, I love you and.........

Best regards
Chris Greenfield.

Hamish.
XXX

**S70T5Chris** · Sunday 26th October 2008, 17:09

Dearest Hamish

£6000 !! You are clearly prone to a bit of exagerattion.
We do not offer 24hr Roadside Assistance we leave that to the AA or RAC.

Ok that is an exaggeration I agree, I actually spent £5800 with HLM between October 2003 and March 2007! My point stays the same.

I never asked you to offer 24hr roadside assistance. At what point was that asked of you? After our initial conversation I was going to see what recovery I could organise, which I did, and you offered to see if you could organise anything (which you didn’t).

Perhaps it wasn't F in C in which case it must have been F in W it was certainly a load of Verbal Abuse.

As I previously said, I suggest you don’t drag my father into it, and do not accuse him of something he never did, this is utter fabrication to suit your own story. Please leave it at that.

Did I start the conversation with " look into my eyes, look into my eyes when you wake up you will buy a Hybrid Turbo" ......no? ...didn't think so.

LOL! Good Little Britain impression! Part of your job is to sell yourself and your products, so after speaking with yourself and Adam I was convinced that your hybrid was the best option. That is a simple fact. How else would I have even known about it??

Adam didn't/doesn't have any money!!! It was easy for him to promise things and then expect me to get my magic cheque book out to sort them.

I don’t really know what to say about Adam. He fed me crap too, and he certainly wasn’t the good cop, in your good cop, bad cop outfit, that everyone thought he was. I know that. So I don’t hold you fully responsible, it was him too. At the end of the day VT was you and Adam. But I believe it was you who told Adam to tell me that you were dealing with it. And it was you personally that ignored my calls and emails, and told me that you would offer no assistance.

It was after all running a correct AFR of 12:1 through the rev rage at WOT.

I don’t know, was it? I didn’t have time to take it to a dyno after picking it up from you, it only lasted 3 hours! I never received a print out from your dyno. I was shown several different plots on your computer.

I don't think I really told any lies I just gave you some home truths that you didn't like.

Refresh my memory on what home truths you told me?

When I asked you what checks you’d done, you said you checked the fault codes and did a visual check. I asked Adam if it threw up any fault codes. He said the fault codes weren’t checked! I asked you outright on the phone, if you’d fitted this turbo to another P1 car, you said you had. Had you?

In the first instance , like I did with you, I would ask them what the hell had they been doing with car. If they replyed with "giving it some stick" I would probably advise them that might be the cause of their problem.
When somebody signs a dyno agreement or a tuning disclaimer they are entering into a legally binding contract. If they would like an engine warranty on their old car and roadside recovery then the answer is either no or that's going to cost you alot of money (more than £2500).

I admit, I was giving it “some stick”. But as I previously stated, no more than Adam when he took me on a test drive. If you’re not supposed to put your foot down a bit in the car after you’ve tuned it, please do tell me what the point of tuning the car is?

No matter what "contractual agreements" you make people sign before having work done, it does not mean you are free from blame if the work you have carried out is at fault.

I replaced the cylinder head on that car at great expense and like an adult I put it down to experience.

You showed me a dyno plot for this little rover that you had Rica’d! Why would you remap a car that is famously known for head gasket failure? Also, you know full well that the car was fubar’d when it was given to me. Adam told me to not take the revs over 5000rpm, “because it didn’t like it”!!! And as I said previously, I didn’t. I only drove it home, parked it up for the week, and drove it back to you. If you had checked the mileage you would have known that that is the honest truth. To be honest, you are proving yourself to be very petty by maintaining that I had something to do with the head gasket failure on this car!

Chris...The cheque is in the post, I love you and.........

Excellent news, thanks very much. Don’t forget to include the cost of transporting the car, stripping the old engine to find out what happened, picking up a new engine and downpipe, fitting a new engine and downpipe, and the cost of a new stage 1 remap courtesy of my friend Don. Ta.

D’you know what?, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. I’m more inclined to laugh at this stage, it was 18 months ago. As you say, best put it all down to experience. But, go on, just admit that you could have handled the situation better? Rather than just telling me, in not so many words, to go away!

I can't bring myself to say I love you back, sorry about that, I'm just not that way inclined.

Kindest regards
Chris

**t5 pete** · Sunday 26th October 2008, 17:22

WOW i havent been on here for one day Ive missed loads i have had my 304 done as stated eairler in this thread the car runs superb the only thing that i do get is a slight constant miss mainly in 5th gear i have have asked in this thread if any one knows why and had a few good replys i would be greatfull if hamish has any understaning of this also as i have stated before my freind cars does this a ford cosworth and he says his is due to unstable boost at higher speeds and higher gears? also if i had spent £5000-£6000 for a bigger turbo etc i would expect the internals to be all strenghend i know that wouldnt stop a piston from meltin but also would want every precaution in place I.E. waterinjection AFRmonitior etc which i am going to do when i rebuild the engine for the 19t also it is stated that chris didnt have a AFR monitor when all the work had been done if he had spent all of this money what is a extra £300 ish to be able to monitor them and be able to stop the damage occuring its a bit stupid realy spend a hell of a lot of money and dont have a AFR fitted also when his car was finished did it go on the rr surley that would have picked it up.
I dont pretend to be any expert in any way i just do as much reaserch as possible and thanks to volvoised and irf im going to fit the WI and AFR it is always help full to keep an open mind but it is true that some will get more bad attention than good if only a couple of people hav had a bad experience you never hear of all the good ones that havent had any problems.
To sum it up im happy with the 304 its just the slight miss but it never worried me as a few peoples cars do the same when running more power.
Also hamish ive fitted the FSD'S and new top mounts the suspension has tranformed.
Cheers pete

**t5 pete** · Sunday 26th October 2008, 17:37

MY post came up after the two before i agree if there was a fault with the work carried out by a firm the firm should have to repair or renew due to bad work man ship also why couldnt you take you car over 5000rmp i would want to know why surly something is wrong for the car not wanting to go over that i honestly dont know who is at fault and its nothing to do with me there was obviously a problem with the afr for this to happen.
I am a builder and if i build a wall and it falls down even 1yr later and its my fault to sh*t footings etc i will rebuild free of charge and wouldnt be able to appolige enough but if the owner of the wall knocks it down with a digger for say there would be a change in heel i would rebuild it free of charge.
I know that staement is way off topic i was just trying to use it for instance
pete

**S70T5Chris** · Sunday 26th October 2008, 18:14

Originally Posted by PNuT

the one thing i will never understand regarding chris car is why a AFR meter was never fitted? regardless of the age of the engine when using something that has been tuned its quite a good idea to keep an eye on whats going on! something somewere obviously went wrong & a couple of hundred quid may very well have prevented it!!

Mate, I couldn't agree more. And since knowing about AFR gauges, and having one fitted, I have said the exact same thing.

What everyone needs to realise is, I, like most of the people on the forums, don't have a huge tuning knowledge, if I did i'd be p*ssing around with my car myself. So what I do, is entrust companies with my car, and let them tell me what can be done with my car, what is safe, and what is available to me. I'm quite happy to pay through the nose for this service, clearly!

An AFR gauge was never mention at any point, I probably hadn't even heard of such a thing at the time.

But you're absolutely right, and AFR gauge may well have saved my engine. Is that my fault that I didn't have one at the time? Perhaps. However as I stated, how was I to know I would need such a thing unless the nice man tuning my car told me so?

**PNuT** · Sunday 26th October 2008, 18:58

Originally Posted by S70T5Chris

Mate, I couldn't agree more. And since knowing about AFR gauges, and having one fitted, I have said the exact same thing.

What everyone needs to realise is, I, like most of the people on the forums, don't have a huge tuning knowledge, if I did i'd be p*ssing around with my car myself. So what I do, is entrust companies with my car, and let them tell me what can be done with my car, what is safe, and what is available to me. I'm quite happy to pay through the nose for this service, clearly!

An AFR gauge was never mention at any point, I probably hadn't even heard of such a thing at the time.

But you're absolutely right, and AFR gauge may well have saved my engine. Is that my fault that I didn't have one at the time? Perhaps. However as I stated, how was I to know I would need such a thing unless the nice man tuning my car told me so?

to be honest i guessed a couple of things, firstly that you didnt have an afr gauge fitted & secondly that that one was never offered! why not is something i will probably not ever understand either as from the tuning companies point of view(assuming everything is maped correctly) it will increase profit & posibly safegard the product!

i certainly wouldnt blame you! i have a fairly good understanding of the internal combustion engine, but when you add turbocharging too it it increases the need for understanding to a whole new level! certainly not something that the average user is going to have without doing an awful lot of research!

**marky 76** · Sunday 26th October 2008, 19:45

i have found this to be a interesting thread,,, firstly i dont understand why pangster has posted commemnts about what bb has said on t5d5 and called it ball 5hit , and the more than useless picture of tony i think buried in barbed wire ??? thats what it looks like to me ,,, seriously pangster deal with your issues mate ,,,, i feal for chris i do , if it were me i would be mortified at the work carried out by vt or whatever there called,,, as some of you know i had the misfortune of buying a car from ian golding you know the one ,,, saffron c70 t5gt the one with the cracked block ,, it may not have been cracked on purchase but after 3 days of owning it ,,, it mysteriously developed a crack ,,, when i first posted about it i was told by some members here to go shove the car up his arssse or go break his legs ,,, funny how peeps changed their outlook when i said it was bought from a forum member ,,, anyway the car did have a RICA map on it and as from i can see the map seems to be ok with reasonable a f r reading,s ,i await the rr day organised by t5d5 to which and what maps can produce what and at what safe levels ,,, i also phoned vt who had previously done all the work on said car just to ask some advice , the phone call went ,, hi i hope you can help me , i recently purchased a car from ian golding the c70t5gt that you have previously done some work on ,,, the reply was ,,, yes we know the car ,,, so i went on to explain that that i have only just bought the car and there appears to be a crack in the block at the back of the engine ,,,, can you possibly shed some light on why this may of happend ,, the reply was there is no warranty on the car i cant help you and hung up !!! not really the advice i was hoping for ,,nor the actions of a good so called tuner volvo specialist,,, so the car went on to a good freind of mine who was going to do the rebuild of my engine ,,, now when he took it the engine apart ,he found a multitude of horrors that vt had left ,,,so at this point i went down the forged road and replace the h beam rods they had damaged,, thats fact,,,i the engine has now done 10,000miles on it,s rebuild still running the RICA , i,m not saying that rica is the best there is ,i for one would not have any nor have i had any dealings with vt but would be more inclined to use rt or kalmar union for a map on my car ,

so much more i want to add but the few idiots here as proven in this thread allready will do nothing but pik at what i,m saying ,,,

**pangster** · Sunday 26th October 2008, 19:57

Tony.. is that you??...