ECU mod/replacement turbo?

[daveforber]

A couple of years ago I had a Volvo S60 2.0T, which I stupidly sold. I'd bought the PPC tuning kit, and, to be honest, thought it was bloody marvellous.

I now have a V40 2.0T (not a T4). As far as I can see, there is not PPC kit for it - I assume there's no OBDII port to hook it up to.

A quick scour shows me that modifications are available, e.g. http://www.ccctech.co.uk/chiptuning.php?make=Volvo suggests I can go from 160-200bhp. I was going to go down that route, until I saw an ad on eBay, which is why I'm posting this. From what I read, it says 'unbolt your turbo and replace it with this one, and you'll get 200bhp'. It's here (now expired) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=320241448459.

Firstly I don't actually know what engine is under my bonnet and the ad is partly confusing as it mentions 1.9 and 2.0 engines, but would this actually work? Would not some ECU changes be necessary? I ask because this is probably cheaper than the remap route above and because my turbo is starting to whistle ever-so slightly so will probably need replacement anyway.

Is it true, am I missing something, or am I just being thick? Any engine upgrade recommendations gratefully received by the way.

Thanks in advance!

[Enigma666]

Ok,

Any American site will state that thte 14T upgrade is safe to run with an MBC.
It is not! the 14T is the turbo found in the T4 and is a direct bolt on for your turbo so in that respect it is a perfect upgrade and will push you closer to 200hp.
the big problem with any power hike is that you need the tuning to sort out the fuelling otherwise you run lean and cook the pistons.
If you buy the turbo and remap then you are in the 235bhp region (maybe more if you go MTE) and trust me better to be safe than sorry.
seen a lot of knackered blocks due to a bolt on 14T upgrade and no tune.

The 40 does have an ODBII port but the software is really locked down in the ECU and nobody ever developed the PPC for it sadly

[CONDYBOY]

Enigma is right, if your car works the same as my v40 the ecu controls the boost pressure and will not allow any more pressure than it wants, so an ecu remap is amust for m ore power in my experience.

[Enigma666]

not strictly right conboy...it does limit the boost but 0.9 bar through a 12T will produce less power than a 14t is all

But yeah the rest is spot on....fuelling is the key

[jimka]

i have a mbc on my t4 (14 T turbo) and am boosting 15psi in every gear... have a air/fuel meter on it and its not running lean, dunno what the bhp figures are like though

[Enigma666]

15 psi = 1.03 bar
OEM boost is 0.9 so you're prob alright with that Jimka no real risk of running lean as i'm sure the ECU can compencate for that sort of increase in air flow

The MTE remap sets the boost to 1.2 Bar (17.4 Psi) I believe (same with the Rica) which is where the fuelling is important.

[daveforber]

Thanks guys. I thought it was a little 'too good to be true'. A shame!

In respect of remaps then, is the accepted wisdom still Rica? And (I hate to ask), any significant impact on economy? I think the PPC improved my S60 a little, so I would imagine it's the same here?

Just to reclarify - I'm a 2.0T (1998), not a T4. Something close to T4 performance would be fine (short of buying a T4!).

[Enigma666]

NOOOOO not Rica mate...Rica gives sooo much low down and little top end. Go MTE mate via Don @ Kalmar Unioin. witht eh 14T fitted you can have a T4 remap for 235 bhp no worries

[hamish]

15 psi = 1.03 bar
OEM boost is 0.9 so you're prob alright with that Jimka no real risk of running lean as i'm sure the ECU can compencate for that sort of increase in air flow

The MTE remap sets the boost to 1.2 Bar (17.4 Psi) I believe (same with the Rica) which is where the fuelling is important.

Hi,

The Rica map sets the boost at 1.1 bar which is all the T4 will take on pump fuel. As for the fuelling we where comparing some Rica files with standard files the other day and I was horified to see that Rica did not alter the fueling ! They must believe that the adaption will fuel for the extra boost!!!!!
After seeing this it makes me realise that distancing myself from Rica was a good move and finding better people to tune cars as we have now was a good move.

Avoid the Rica tune on these cars there is better for less. I have very little experience of MTE tunes as the people with MTE have been a bit shy about having a run on our dyno. What I can say is that even a 'bleed valve' can safely take a T4 to 235bhp!

Regards,
Hamish.

[Loadsamiles]

Hi,

The Rica map sets the boost at 1.1 bar which is all the T4 will take on pump fuel. As for the fuelling we where comparing some Rica files with standard files the other day and I was horified to see that Rica did not alter the fueling ! They must believe that the adaption will fuel for the extra boost!!!!!
After seeing this it makes me realise that distancing myself from Rica was a good move and finding better people to tune cars as we have now was a good move.

Avoid the Rica tune on these cars there is better for less. I have very little experience of MTE tunes as the people with MTE have been a bit shy about having a run on our dyno. What I can say is that even a 'bleed valve' can safely take a T4 to 235bhp!

Regards,
Hamish.

It certainly seemed so!

I'd figured that by Adams insitance that AFR 14.7:1 on an ME7 (12:1ish on a motronic 4.3 4.4 ) was fine at 1.4 bar.

Plus he told me on the phone, somewhere along the lines of "yours is perfectly safe, We've had loads of mapped cars on our dyno running lambda 1 with elevated boost it's not an issue"

For the purpose of economy and low emissions Volvo tune the T5 to run as hot (lean) as is safe at standard boost. Running more boost increases heat so you need to fuel a cooler (richer) mixture to keep engine temps safe. That would throw emissions and CO2 bands sky high.

A performance map should not really improve MPG AND performance. If it does, check the AFR's.

My MTE map runs down to 10.5:1 under heavy boost. You can actually smell the V-power!

They must believe that the adaption will fuel for the extra boost!!!!!

That's a protection measure that the ECU initiates when things start to get a little bit "on the edge" It's not designed to run on that in normal use.

Go take a look at my AFR plots with Adam's (or RICA's) map You'll see it run 14.7 for a while then there's a sudden drop to about 12, That's not mapped in by the tuner, it's the ECU saying enough! Have a look at diferent plots you have of my car, and you'll notice it happens at different RPM's on diferent runs. That's because of differing temps causing the ECU to richen up at diferent RPM's

Before being over written my hybrid map was analysed out on the road. The tuner (one of the best Volvo tuners worldwide) said catagorically that the ECU is aiming for lambda 1 AT ALL TIMES, but is being stopped by the ECU's protection routines.

Quite a shoddy way to write a map.

Catagorically a performance map should not run stock fueling, or even try to. By relying on the ECU's protection the performance of the car can be erratic, and will vary wildly with difering environmental conditions.

For once I'm going to agree 100% with hamish

[Loadsamiles]

Hi,

T I have very little experience of MTE tunes as the people with MTE have been a bit shy about having a run on our dyno.
Regards,
Hamish.

I'd quite hapily put mine back on that dyno. it would be more than interesting.

But I can't I'm barred!

[MIKESC70T5]

It certainly seemed so!

Catagorically a performance map should not run stock fueling, or even try to. By relying on the ECU's protection the performance of the car can be erratic, and will vary wildly with difering environmental conditions.

That's interesting. I was speaking to Don at the MRG meet last Saturday about the MTE basic remap for my me7 engined C70 and i asked about what fuel was needed, and he said i could happily run it on unleaded, no need for the v power.

[Justin]

Hi,

The Rica map sets the boost at 1.1 bar which is all the T4 will take on pump fuel. As for the fuelling we where comparing some Rica files with standard files the other day and I was horified to see that Rica did not alter the fueling ! They must believe that the adaption will fuel for the extra boost!!!!!
After seeing this it makes me realise that distancing myself from Rica was a good move and finding better people to tune cars as we have now was a good move.

Avoid the Rica tune on these cars there is better for less. I have very little experience of MTE tunes as the people with MTE have been a bit shy about having a run on our dyno. What I can say is that even a 'bleed valve' can safely take a T4 to 235bhp!

Regards,
Hamish.

Hamish, if the T4 mapped by Rica pulls what 240bhp (i cant remember or be arse to check) and they dont touch the fuel maps, and your saying a bleed valve will run 235bhp happily, surely there isnt any need to change the fuel map? What i mean is, if a bleed valve can produce 235bhp safely without mapping the fuel table, why would any map producing just 5bhp more need to?

Just doesn't add up to me.

[Loadsamiles]

But you're assuming that the bleed valve is operating in a safe area.

The fact remains bleed valves introduce an error into the operation of the car, and rely on it's ability to protect itself. With a bleed valve you have little or no further margain for error.

The country's scrapyards are littered with blown engines from people playing with bleed valves.

A correct AFR/map will give you the best running conditions for your engine, producing less stress on the engine and anciliary components. There is less chance of detonation, less chance of burning a valve or melting a piston, less chance of cracking the manifold, less chance of ending up with a cracked turbo exhaust housing, and less wear on many other components. The correctly fueled car will be far more reliable and run for much longer.

Running a richer mixture does loose a little power, but playing with the ignition timing can then bring some back.

If you are running borderline with a lean mixture, then have a failing injector, what would have been a rough running fault on a properly mapped car can end up being a blown engine on a borderline tune.

Simply because something can be done doesn't mean it's a good or reliable way to do things.

I recall a forum member here commenting that he was having "temperature issues" when he went on trackdays.

I don't know of any of the MTE tuned cars having such issues, and some of them are run in proper competition events on a regular basis.

[Loadsamiles]

That's interesting. I was speaking to Don at the MRG meet last Saturday about the MTE basic remap for my me7 engined C70 and i asked about what fuel was needed, and he said i could happily run it on unleaded, no need for the v power.

That's because it's not constantly at risk of detonation.
You'll notice how RICA REQUIRES you run at least 97 RON (preferably 98) "for best performance"

[Loadsamiles]

It certainly seemed so!


Go take a look at my AFR plots with Adam's (or RICA's) map You'll see it run 14.7 for a while then there's a sudden drop to about 12, That's not mapped in by the tuner, it's the ECU saying enough! Have a look at diferent plots you have of my car, and you'll notice it happens at different RPM's on diferent runs. That's because of differing temps causing the ECU to richen up at diferent RPM's

And now the MTE AFR's (the lower of the 2 plots (this still has IAT issues where the intercooler needs swapping to cope with this turbo hence lower boost figures)

[Kal]

Er you don't need to re-map, i'm running a mbc with 14psi on a 2.0t, granted I do have induction decat and 2.5 system but standard turbo! I'm getting over 200bhp, according to a dyno day held at SW Autos!!

[daveforber]

Ah, someone with a 2.0t!

I've always been a little sceptical about manual boost controllers, but that's mainly because I've never bothered to ask any questions about them.

Attempting to decode the huge amount of information above, am I right in thinking manual boost controller, boost gauge and air/fuel gauge is what's needed? I might go down that route if people say it's a reliable one.

Is it?

[jimka]

i'm using the R-spec value and have now done over 5,000 miles at 16psi.. I will say that if im accelerating hard, then i do get some smoke, but i believe this is the car adjusting to the extra pressure. I always run my car on v-power, and if i do use "normal" unleaded i turn my valve down to around 10psi....

my question is - will it be safe to keep it at 16psi and run on normal fuel?

I'll also add that the R-spec value does not overboost, everytime it hits 16psi no more... I'm very happy with it

[daveforber]

What's stock boost for the 2.0t ... and obviously what's safe for the 12T turbo? Obviously I don't want to blow my engine just because I'm being a cheapskate