PDA

View Full Version : S60-T5 vs 855-T5 (Rica'd)



glock19
Wednesday 1st February 2006, 05:12
Was viewing / testing the S60-T5 and found that the power delivery was incomparable to my current ride (855-T5 Rica'd) and both are autos. Is this normal ? I expect the S60-T5 to be near the 280 BHP 855 and with the difference in price, it doesn't justfy the purchase.

Have yet to compare with a friend's S60-T5 (A) with MTE tuning (Swede guy - Marco who comes over here to road tune the cars). He's making about 340 BHP 500NM and it cost him about 600 pounds.

Would like to have a drag later but question is, how durable are the S60s ? And can one who's inclined to speed / power leave the S60-T5 in standard form ? For how long ? One thing to consider, the price of the S60-T5 is more than double the price of my aging 855 over here, so is it worth it even if I can afford to cough out the extras ?

aeroresh
Wednesday 1st February 2006, 08:03
Out of the box and unmodified an S60 T5 should put out 250 BHP so its no wonder the RICAd 855 feels quicker, add to that the more aggressive nature of the RICA tuning map and it all makes sense.

However the internals of the S60 (and all other ME7 post '99 T5 engines) are alot stronger and can take more of a bashing than the earlier engines. With the right turbo on and with no internal mods necessary the later T5 cars can produce around 400BHP!

Stage 1 RICA on an S60 T5 is 310 BHP but Id imagine its slightly heavier than the 855 so the difference in performance between the two wont be great.

What you buying into with the S60 is a more modern and technologically better car rather than just outright speed. Definately worth the moeny if you can stretch to it. :)

mraldonnelly
Wednesday 1st February 2006, 09:25
Also, in my experience, the 850 and early x70's are more brutal than the later ME7 x70's and the S60 and P2 V70.

My theory on this is the fly by wire ruins things a little on the later cars. The good old throttle cable on the earlier models does exactly what you tell it to - opens the throttle. I think the fly by wire has to think about it for a while and then decides not to go WOT immediately when you floor it.

regards

Andy

Mrsmopp
Wednesday 1st February 2006, 09:29
Also, in my experience, the 850 and early x70's are more brutal than the later ME7 x70's and the S60 and P2 V70.

Andy

This is certainly the case on the 1/4 mile events we have been to. The 850's are definately quicker down the 1/4 mile with like for like mods

x

volvotuning
Wednesday 1st February 2006, 09:56
Also, in my experience, the 850 and early x70's are more brutal than the later ME7 x70's and the S60 and P2 V70.

My theory on this is the fly by wire ruins things a little on the later cars. The good old throttle cable on the earlier models does exactly what you tell it to - opens the throttle. I think the fly by wire has to think about it for a while and then decides not to go WOT immediately when you floor it.

regards

Andy

That is very true. If you watch the throttle position from the ETM when you stamp on the pedal with ME7, you can see that the power is fed in, which is achieved by the ETM opening at a slower rate than the pedal. The speed of the throttle opening also appears to be rpm dependent.

However, one advantage of drive-by-wire is that if you don't remove the boost limits in the ECU, when you do get an overboost (say due to a split actuator pipe) the ECU will limit the throttle to keep the boost at around 0.7 bar.

Adam.

lance
Wednesday 1st February 2006, 11:16
I must admit I like the older cars raw edge standard or rica,d, I havent driven an ME7 car yet but they are definetly slower on the 1/4 mile although they do seem to rev a lot higher at the top end Im sure Ive been in Hamishs car at 125 mph in 3rd my V70 runs out and hits the limiter around 103-108 mph in 3rd

Wobbly Dave
Wednesday 1st February 2006, 11:44
I have been in, owned and driven both types.
Power delivery in the throttle cable cars is more edgy/raw. ME7 is smoother. I know what my old C70 was capable of and I do like the ME7 power. One thing that could be seen as either a plus or a bad thing is that when you release the throttle on the ME7 the revs come down a lot slower than in the throttle cars. I think there are advantages/disadvantages for both systems. I think I would like to see the manual throttle body with the VVT head with coil packs - but I dont know if this is technically possible?

BlackBeast
Wednesday 1st February 2006, 12:15
What you buying into with the S60 is a more modern and technologically better car rather than just outright speed.

Give me an old, untechnological pre ME7 anytime. Sometimes advancments in technology doesnt help and makes things worse, not better as it should.

Put it like this, a good old throttle cable costs 20 odd quid to replace if it stretches or snaps, where as your talking £300+ if something goes wrong with the ETM in the ME7 cars. Which would you rather? :)

glock19
Thursday 2nd February 2006, 00:54
Thanks guys for the inputs. Yes I've heard horror stories on 2001/2002 models when their ETM gave up. Power steering rack is another costly complaint. Is it true that post 2003 models are more stable and less problematic ? Apart from the engine internals, what about the drive shafts, CV joints and all the transmission works ? Can they withstand more than 350 BHPs and 500 Nm ?

Adam,
Can you Rica just the S60's ECU as in the case of the older cars ? Meaning I sent the unit to you and wait for the upgrade ? Reason for asking is that, the time taken for the mentioned MTE (not TME) guy to perform the tuning was quite long (maybe he was customising the car to the owner's preference) as he says there's much much more mapping combinations available for the ME7 models. Can you also change the ETM's (or TCM here - Throttle Control Module) settings through the ECU alone, so that the pedal response is offset towards a quicker reaction ?

Without the car, which stage can the Rica be tuned to ?

volvotuning
Thursday 2nd February 2006, 01:04
Thanks guys for the inputs. Yes I've heard horror stories on 2001/2002 models when their ETM gave up. Power steering rack is another costly complaint. Is it true that post 2003 models are more stable and less problematic ? Apart from the engine internals, what about the drive shafts, CV joints and all the transmission works ? Can they withstand more than 350 BHPs and 500 Nm ?

Adam,
Can you Rica just the S60's ECU as in the case of the older cars ? Meaning I sent the unit to you and wait for the upgrade ? Reason for asking is that, the time taken for the mentioned MTE (not TME) guy to perform the tuning was quite long (maybe he was customising the car to the owner's preference) as he says there's much much more mapping combinations available for the ME7 models. Can you also change the ETM's (or TCM here - Throttle Control Module) settings through the ECU alone, so that the pedal response is offset towards a quicker reaction ?

Without the car, which stage can the Rica be tuned to ?

With the ME7 and later cars we have the ability (if required) to tune them remotely anywhere in the world without you having to send your ECU. I will PM you the details if you are interested. Time difference is an issue that would need to be addressed. Pedal response will be better, but due to the power delivery it will always feel smoother than the 850.

Adam.

glock19
Saturday 4th February 2006, 15:24
Okay Adam, you'll be the first to know if I got the S60-T5 as my 855 replacement but don't hold your breath as it's not a spacious as the wagon, which is holding me back due to children's sitting capacity :D