My own little spark plug thread

[BlackBeast]

I know what your thinking, oh no not another spark plug thread, but we havent had one for ages and my 110k mile service will be due very soon and im going to replace the plugs as ive no idea when they were last changed.

I know people recommend the NGK platinums and iridiums and they last for ages, but what about good old coppers and changing them every 10k service?

Only person im aware of doing this in the UK is Siamblue and he was also using my RICA ecu. The performance lot in the US swear by the coppers, and they are like £10 max for a set of 5 compared to £40 for the platinums and £55 for the iridiums.

[Al115]

The performance lot in the US swear by the coppers

I think the performance lot over here would spend more time swearing AT Coppers...? :hilarious

Sorry, I'll get me coat.

[volvotuning]

They're not even the right plug for the standard car!

Adam.

[Vikingxl]

I think the performance lot over here would spend more time swearing AT Coppers...? :hilarious

Sorry, I'll get me coat.
Now that really made me laugh sorry blackbeast!

[t5tart]

They're not even the right plug for the standard car!

Adam.


best to stick with the original volvo ones then ??

or do you have a better suggestion ???

am about to do mine soon ...... what a bout gapping

[fireclown]

should be pre gapped. ngk bkr7evx if i am correct.

[BlackBeast]

I think the performance lot over here would spend more time swearing AT Coppers...? :hilarious

Sorry, I'll get me coat.

LOL when i wrote that, i thought someone would say something :troutslap

[BlackBeast]

They're not even the right plug for the standard car!

Adam.

But thats because Volvo have to put in a safety margin for people that dont service their car as often as they should. Platinums can last 30k miles or so.

If the copper ones were gapped correctly and you can get them for the T5 in the correct heat range and they were replaced regularly (every 10k), there shouldnt be a problem, right?

[Wobbly Dave]

NGK BKR7EVX or IRIDIUMS

About £25 to 30 for the set x5 I think?

[siamblue]

But thats because Volvo have to put in a safety margin for people that dont service their car as often as they should. Platinums can last 30k miles or so.

If the copper ones were gapped correctly and you can get them for the T5 in the correct heat range and they were replaced regularly (every 10k), there shouldnt be a problem, right?

I had Volvo's special expensive plugs in mine last year then changed to Iridiums, total cost around £70 i have since had Coppers in since last year and 5k miles later not a problem at all, Euro car parts list them as to fit the T5's at £8.50 a set. and gapped them to 26 thou.
You guys can keep on wasting your dosh on expensive fancy plugs and oil :slap:

Gary.

[hamish]

Hi,

The fact that the Platinum or Iridium Plug will last 30k and a copper plug will not suggests to me that the copper plugs are clearly inferior.
Gary's statement that people are wasting their money using a quality oil is quite frankly ridiculous !
My best advice, especially for a performance car, is fit the best. That applies to Spark Plugs, Oil, Tyres, Petrol, Brakes etc etc.
And in the case of Spark Plugs for a T5 Standard or Tuned a good plug is the NGK Platinum or Iridium. (circa. £8). If you really do want the Best we stock a NGK Competition plug (circa. £18).
Fitting a mundane copper plug to a T5 engine, and then driving it anything other than carefully is just asking for trouble !

Regards,
Hamish.

P.S. We stock all the NGK plugs for the modern Volvos, (even the copper core for the N.A. Cars) so if you need the correct plugs for your car give me a call at Chip Tuning. (01527 577710)

[elliot]

I run the copper champion RC7YCC and have done for ages,pick up seems better than with the NGK's but that purley subjective they are certinaly alot better than the volvo ones up top. I went for the 7 rating,but as you are not that tuned you may find yours goes better with the RC9YCC,i had these in befor the 7's when i was'nt running quite so much boost and the throttle response and midrange felt good.As mentioned the only downside is they dont last as long but they cost naff all.I do spend alot on shell helix oil though!

[Engineer]

Hi,

The fact that the Platinum or Iridium Plug will last 30k and a copper plug will not suggests to me that the copper plugs are clearly inferior.
Gary's statement that people are wasting their money using a quality oil is quite frankly ridiculous !
My best advice, especially for a performance car, is fit the best. That applies to Spark Plugs, Oil, Tyres, Petrol, Brakes etc etc.
And in the case of Spark Plugs for a T5 Standard or Tuned a good plug is the NGK Platinum or Iridium. (circa. £8). If you really do want the Best we stock a NGK Competition plug (circa. £18).
Fitting a mundane copper plug to a T5 engine, and then driving it anything other than carefully is just asking for trouble !

Regards,
Hamish.

P.S. We stock all the NGK plugs for the modern Volvos, (even the copper core for the N.A. Cars) so if you need the correct plugs for your car give me a call at Chip Tuning. (01527 577710)Steady mate, no need to throw your rattle out the pram. ever thought of doing a customer relations course lol.

[S60D5]

Steady mate, no need to throw your rattle out the pram. ever thought of doing a customer relations course lol.

LOL. :B_blite: :B_blite:

[hamish]

Elliot,

That Champion Plug is not correct for the Volvos. It is a 'DIN' plug and not an 'ISO' plug. Your plug leads are not seating correctly ! That is a Saab Plug ! If you must use Champion the correct number is RC8PYP which is also a platinum plug so comparable in price and functionality to the correct NGK plug.

Regards,
Hamish.

[weasel]

hamish,

if you're going to do indignation please at least have the correct information to argue..... it's champion rc7gyc :bricks:

and if you're going to have a poke about siamblue's ridiculous argument to which i also subscribe, the very least you can do is offer some kind of argument and evidence to support your case. please go on..... ;-)

[BlackBeast]

Ok, to bring this thread back on track here's a little something for you to muller over, this was posted by a VS member:-

Just finished reading Dr Jacobs book on ignition systems. (Jacobs Electronics) He has some interesting information on the differences between copper and platinum spark plugs.

Some inherent features of Platinum plugs are that, because platinum is a poorer conductor than copper, platinum plugs require a lower initial voltage for the spark to jump the gap (compared to copper plugs) and the harder platinum electrode lasts significantly longer than the softer copper electrode. It is the lower initial voltage requirement that makes them work so well in most cars, and that messes things up for us.

Since copper is juch a great conductor (the electrons want to stay inside the copper) with a copper plug it is more difficult for the electrons to leave the copper electrode to initiate the jump across the gap. The electrons have to build up on the tip of the plug until enough voltage pressure is built up to force the electrons to leave the copper and jump across the gap thereby creating the spark. Since it takes more voltage pressure to initiate the spark jump, you get a hotter stronger spark jumping the gap.

On a platinum plug, since it is easier for the electrons to leave the platinum electrode and jump the gap. Fewer electrons build up at the tip, and the voltage pressure required to force the electrons off the electrode is lower when the spark jumps the gap. So the spark is not as strong or hot since not as much energy was required to initiate the spark.

This "feature" of platinum plugs is why weak (older) ignition systems benefit so much from the installation of platinum plugs, and why they works so well in non-turbo cars. With our turbos and the higer compression from the added boost, we benefit from the hotter stronger spark of the copper plugs since the higher pressure (compression) tends to blow out the weaker sparks of platinum plugs.

[volvotuning]

hamish,

if you're going to do indignation please at least have the correct information to argue..... it's champion rc7gyc :bricks:

and if you're going to have a poke about siamblue's ridiculous argument to which i also subscribe, the very least you can do is offer some kind of argument and evidence to support your case. please go on..... ;-)

Easy on guys! Its' so easy to misread people's tone in posts cos half that time we don't use emoticons.

Anyway, just want to add that I think using a good quality oil is probably common sense. The word "quality" being the operative word here. There are many quality oils out there, of which Shell Helix is one such example.

Adam.

[elliot]

Elliot,

That Champion Plug is not correct for the Volvos. It is a 'DIN' plug and not an 'ISO' plug. Your plug leads are not seating correctly ! That is a Saab Plug ! If you must use Champion the correct number is RC8PYP which is also a platinum plug so comparable in price and functionality to the correct NGK plug.

Regards,
Hamish.


Have just gone out and compared an old champion with a std volvo plug and there is a a minute difference in the contact shape,my manegore leads also locate well onto them with no signs of arching and i have'nt had any running problems and the car runs very fast for the spec so i am going to continue using them.cheers for the heads up

[Engineer]

Easy on guys! Its' so easy to misread people's tone in posts cos half that time we don't use emoticons.

Anyway, just want to add that I think using a good quality oil is probably common sense. The word "quality" being the operative word here. There are many quality oils out there, of which Shell Helix is one such example.

Adam.Good point Adam happens to me all the time, so here's my simple man's sparkplug indicator.......................lol

A simple test to see if your plugs are the right one’s is to remove a plug from your engine, if you have just dropped it then it was to hot, if not look at the plug end (dot in the middle) and move your head in and out, if it starts revolving (see example below) then it’s to cold. A correctly chosen plug will remain in your engine for thousands of miles, so long in fact that you will forget they are there lol.

[volvotuning]

Good point Adam happens to me all the time, so here's my simple man's sparkplug indicator.......................lol

A simple test to see if your plugs are the right one’s is to remove a plug from your engine, if you have just dropped it then it was to hot, if not look at the plug end (dot in the middle) and move your head in and out, if it starts revolving (see example below) then it’s to cold. A correctly chosen plug will remain in your engine for thousands of miles, so long in fact that you will forget they are there lol.


LOL, where did you find that? That's quite good!

Adam.

[Engineer]

LOL, where did you find that? That's quite good!

Adam.Only moves when Im p----d mate don't know about anybody else lol.

[weasel]

'Easy on guys! Its' so easy to misread people's tone in posts cos half that time we don't use emoticons.'
not a problem.... we can all be hoisted by our petard occasionally:-)

'Anyway, just want to add that I think using a good quality oil is probably common sense. The word "quality" being the operative word here. There are many quality oils out there, of which Shell Helix is one such example.'
ah but quality is not necessarily a useful term for some. you supply valvoline semi synthetic as part of your standard servicing don't you?

i also use the ecp plugs without any problems and change every 10k, but that's because i just don't think they should be left in for that long - perish the thought of helicoiling all the way down there! i was once told by someone who'd been 'in the trade for 16 years' that the volvo recommended plugs 'never existed' because he wanted my to pay loads for his ngk set and when i said 11 quid a plug was too much, he dropped the price to 8.50.... i went to ecp instead.

you guys should be less suspicious, i've not brought anything from you yet.

[LeeT5]

... but that's because i just don't think they should be left in for that long - perish the thought of helicoiling all the way down there!


Well heres a top tip from me and i've been in the trade for 16 years also. On replacing plugs with new if you smear a tiny amount of copper slip onto the thread then you will prevent the above from happening. Also it will ensure that you screw the plugs in at the correct torque.

If you leave the plugs dry then they have more chance of rattling themselves free even if torqued up!! Trust me it works fine. Been doing it for years with no probs.

I went out to a guy with a v8 audi on a 54 plate with a misfire and strange engine noise. b4 i looked he told me the car had just had a full service. All the spark plugs had been replaced and i found two to be loose and one nearly falling out - hense the misfire. :jaw: Guess what.....it had been done at the main dealer, upon inspection the plugs were all bone dry. So i copper slipped 'em, torqued em up and hay presto. Got a tenner tip too :B_thumb: :Handshake

Dry plugs in a very dry head is asking for stipped threads.

[Engineer]

Well heres a top tip from me and i've been in the trade for 16 years also. On replacing plugs with new if you smear a tiny amount of copper slip onto the thread then you will prevent the above from happening. Also it will ensure that you screw the plugs in at the correct torque.

If you leave the plugs dry then they have more chance of rattling themselves free even if torqued up!! Trust me it works fine. Been doing it for years with no probs.

I went out to a guy with a v8 audi on a 54 plate with a misfire and strange engine noise. b4 i looked he told me the car had just had a full service. All the spark plugs had been replaced and i found two to be loose and one nearly falling out - hense the misfire. :jaw: Guess what.....it had been done at the main dealer, upon inspection the plugs were all bone dry. So i copper slipped 'em, torqued em up and hay presto. Got a tenner tip too :B_thumb: :Handshake

Dry plugs in a very dry head is asking for stipped threads.Dead right mate, long term problems do happen with left for ever screwed items, been around a long time in the trade myself 36 years and counting lol.

[volvotuning]

ah but quality is not necessarily a useful term for some. you supply valvoline semi synthetic as part of your standard servicing don't you?

you guys should be less suspicious, i've not brought anything from you yet.

I think we use several types of oil depending on the type of car, but that's the "service" department which I'm technically not involved with so I can't say for sure. You would need to ask Hamish because I'm not 100% certain.

I ain't suspicious about anything except anyone who tries to put cheese in my food - I hate the stuff!!! LOL

Adam.

[siamblue]

Hi,

The fact that the Platinum or Iridium Plug will last 30k and a copper plug will not suggests to me that the copper plugs are clearly inferior.
Gary's statement that people are wasting their money using a quality oil is quite frankly ridiculous !
My best advice, especially for a performance car, is fit the best. That applies to Spark Plugs, Oil, Tyres, Petrol, Brakes etc etc.
And in the case of Spark Plugs for a T5 Standard or Tuned a good plug is the NGK Platinum or Iridium. (circa. £8). If you really do want the Best we stock a NGK Competition plug (circa. £18).
Fitting a mundane copper plug to a T5 engine, and then driving it anything other than carefully is just asking for trouble !

Regards,
Hamish.



All i ever do on here is try and make sure people are not getting ripped off and i always look for the cheaper options, as not everyone can afford AP brakes or Shell Helix, etc,
In my experience I have used cheaper equivalents where i can, I have read a lot of info on Volvospeed and they do know their stuff, hence why i changed to the Coppers, and no problems at all,
I should've worded it a bit better earlier but;
As for the oil i am happy putting fully synthetic 5w 40 in my car every 5k at £15 a gallon, instead of £60 odd for Shell Helix,
My car has had a hard life being ex Police and i am sure the Police mechanics in Notts did put anything on the car they knew would be wasting money,
The old girl has done 147k now so that is testament in its self IMHO.

Gary

[weasel]

gary are you using the same oil as the plods did then?

adam, you do realise this cheese thing is very worrying especially when considered along with: hamish appears to not know the correct plugs for the car and uses oils according to the manual or the next best thing he can get..... which might be porridge for all i know. i do hope wobbly dave's there if and when i come for a remap;-)

[siamblue]

gary are you using the same oil as the plods did then?



I don't know what they used, but i have been told by a Policeman that if they can get it done cheaper then they go with it, one thing is for sure it would not be expensive.

Gary.

[BlackBeast]

Forget about the oil, there's a 'my little oil thread' all for that :D

Why should i pay £35+ for platinums/iridiums when i can get coppers for £10 or less that do the job just as well?

What about VT doing some testing with coppers vs platinums vs iridiums? Adam? Hamish?

[siamblue]

Forget about the oil, there's a 'my little oil thread' all for that :D

Why should i pay £35+ for platinums/iridiums when i can get coppers for £10 or less that do the job just as well?

What about VT doing some testing with coppers vs platinums vs iridiums? Adam? Hamish?

Go over to VS and post £8.50 or £50 for plugs and watch the flames :ukliam2:

Gary.

Those guys are very very knowledgeble.

[LeeT5]

Forget about the oil, there's a 'my little oil thread' all for that :D

Why should i pay £35+ for platinums/iridiums when i can get coppers for £10 or less that do the job just as well?

What about VT doing some testing with coppers vs platinums vs iridiums? Adam? Hamish?

Isn't that as broad as it is long though??

If you get the coppers then you will be replacing them every 10k, but if you fit platinums or iridiums then you will be replacing every 30k. Even the oe plugs conveniently packed as 5 spark plugs are platinum and replaced every 30k. So you are not really spending out, £10 a year V £30 every 3!!! Surely the issue here is which plug is better for performance. Thats what i want to know. :D

I currently have oe platinums fitted, but am considering iridium NGK's for £5.08 each (thats what i can get them for).

:riceboy:

Has anyone fitted NGK iridiums after oe and noticed a difference??

[racer]

Just out of idle interest <FX: looks at empty package>, what's the word on the Volvo R6 plugs they supply for the T5s?

[LeeT5]

Just out of idle interest <FX: looks at empty package>, what's the word on the Volvo R6 plugs they supply for the T5s?

R6 plugs???? dont know what you mean. Who supplies them?

[racer]

Err.. Volvo. They are the ones the dealers have listed for my V70 T5, just marked with a blue R6 on the enamel bit. Rufe probably knows the part number. ;)

[LeeT5]

Err.. Volvo. They are the ones the dealers have listed for my V70 T5, just marked with a blue R6 on the enamel bit. Rufe probably knows the part number. ;)

Ahh...they be good ones m8. Platinum tipped i believe...same as what i got fitted. :)

[racer]

That's a relief. Just fitted a new set, so I was dreading a "They're a Bag of ££££e" type response! Cheers Lee. :wave23d:

[LeeT5]

That's a relief. Just fitted a new set, so I was dreading a "They're a Bag of ££££e" type response! Cheers Lee. :wave23d:

:B_thumb: no probs

[jp850R]

Just my 2pence worth dont hold me to these but,
Plugs:

Specified = NGK BKR7EVX

Alternative:-

Denso IK22 Performance

NGK PFR7Q Performance

NGK PFR7B Enhanced

Champion RC6PYP Enhanced

NGK BKR7EIX Performance

Denso K22PR-ZU Performance

NGK BKR7EKC Standard

Champion RC7BYC Standard

NGK BKR7E Standard

Champion RC6YC Standard

Champion RC7YC Standard

:)

[siamblue]

Very nice work Jon :) i tried the IK20 in mine as they were a colder plug than the IK22,

[LeeT5]

Ahh...they be good ones m8. Platinum tipped i believe...same as what i got fitted. :)

Yup, i checked with Lipscomb Volvo today and the oe plugs for T5s are defo Platinum tipped. :remybussi Thats good enough for me. N/A 850s just have copper plugs.

[BlackBeast]

If your interested you should do a search on VS, they have some interesting experiences with Platinums/Iridiums.

[LeeT5]

If your interested you should do a search on VS, they have some interesting experiences with Platinums/Iridiums.

:o Good or bad? Send us the link if you have it please

[Daz T5]

I've lust checked the plugs in mine, they are NGKR - PFR6N.

Anyone know if these are copper/platinum or even correct for the car?

Darren

[BlackBeast]

Well i plumped for the BKR7EVX at £29 for 5, so not too bad.

[volvotuning]

Well i plumped for the BKR7EVX at £29 for 5, so not too bad.

What made you plump for those in the end instead of the coppers?

Adam.

[madness]

you wouldnt catch me putting copper plugs in!

just because they are ok in america doesnt mean they work here.

im sure vt would agree with me.
how often do i see a car come in with running problemw due to the plugs ??

................too often

[BlackBeast]

What made you plump for those in the end instead of the coppers?

Adam.

Basically Adam, i thought long and hard about it and i wasnt prepared to put the coppers in without them having been tested on T5's here in the UK, and i thought i got a pretty good deal on the plats anyway.

[volvotuning]

Basically Adam, i thought long and hard about it and i wasnt prepared to put the coppers in without them having been tested on T5's here in the UK, and i thought i got a pretty good deal on the plats anyway.

Wise decision! I think Madness has summed it up nicely :)

Adam.