Rica 280 or MBC

[Broaders]

I am toying with the idea of getting the t5 Rica'd, but both my friends who have a t5 are saying whats the point of spending that amount of money when you can just get a MBC and up the boost.

Please can somebody tell me the difference between the two, ie different boost levels, correct fuelling etc etc.

I want to be able to explain the benifits to them so as they may convert to Rica aswell.

Cheers

[mraldonnelly]

I am toying with the idea of getting the t5 Rica'd, but both my friends who have a t5 are saying whats the point of spending that amount of money when you can just get a MBC and up the boost.

Please can somebody tell me the difference between the two, ie different boost levels, correct fuelling etc etc.

I want to be able to explain the benifits to them so as they may convert to Rica aswell.

Cheers

Hi Broaders,

AFAIK, the MBC simply changes the boost, either by fooling the system or whatever. A RICA re-programs the whole system and therefore doesn't just change the boost, it changes the whole driveability of the car. It also ensures that the ECU retains control of EVERYTHING, including the boost, and can therefore cut back on boost etc in the event of a problem thus reducing the chances of causing serious damage.

Personally I'd avoid anything that messes about with the boost without the agreement of the ECU and would therefore get her RICA'd. I don't think I've ever heard of one dissatisfied customer.

Regards

Andy

[Broaders]

Cheers Andy, thats what I thought.

My mate has his mbc set so the standard boost gauge goes right to the end of the white bar. Do you know roughly what psi the turbo is pushing at this level and would the rica 280 perform any better ?

[mraldonnelly]

Cheers Andy, thats what I thought.

My mate has his mbc set so the standard boost gauge goes right to the end of the white bar. Do you know roughly what psi the turbo is pushing at this level and would the rica 280 perform any better ?

No worries mate.

IIRC, the standard boost pressure of a T5 is about 9psi which takes your standard guage about half to two thirds into the white.

I believe a RICA can double this - possibly more, I'm not certain - thus taking the boost guage off the scale just like your mate's car.

I recon yours would be more driveable though because the boost is controlled with the RICA. Yours would also be safer in terms of engine damage because if there's a problem with the engine the ECU would still go into limp home mode with an MBC I don't know if this is the case.

Also, as the MBC is not ECU controlled, is it not possible to get an overboost which could bend a rod or two?

Regards

Andy

[Wobbly Dave]

RICA Map takes boost to about 1 bar. Andy is right. MBC's main advantage is that it is cheap. MBC is a spring loaded airleak. It is a mechanical system that allows the wastegate to remain shut until a certain pressure is reached in the control loop (set by how tight you load the spring). The main disadvantages are - it takes away the ability of the ECU to control the boost. It doesnt alter the fueling - although I believe the ECU will try and compensate? and in the event of a problem you remove the ECU's ability to go into limp home mode and protect the engine. You need to be careful setting them up. If you over do it the risk of bending conrods becomes a very real probability. The other issue is that you are fitting an airleak to a closed metered system.
The remap is a change of software. You are effectively changing the whole setup, by altering the values that the engine runs - so a certain fueling/boost for a given load/rpm as read by the multitude of sensors. It is more expensive. It is a more complete solution. The ECU still retains complete control and can react effectively to problems and atmospheric conditions.

[Broaders]

Not sure if this is overboost but my mates 850R does cut out if he winds the MBC out too much. Obviousley this won't be good for the car if he keeps making the car cut out.

[Liddo]

Not sure if this is overboost but my mates 850R does cut out if he winds the MBC out too much. Obviousley this won't be good for the car if he keeps making the car cut out.

YES, tell your mate to stop the car doing that! My RICA'd S70 kept doing it now and then, and when I kept my foot down one day, it bent a rod!!! :(
BTW, I did have a split hose to the turbo, thats why it overboosted.

[mraldonnelly]

Hey Liddo, if you've got your car back by the weekend and haven't sold the ECU and can make it round on Saturday I wouldn't mind you taking me for a quick spin in it so I can see what difference RICA makes.

I can't wait 'til I've got the cash for all the mods I want to make.

Regards

Andy

[Wobbly Dave]

Not sure if this is overboost but my mates 850R does cut out if he winds the MBC out too much. Obviousley this won't be good for the car if he keeps making the car cut out.
If it is cutting out then the ECU is having to do the last thing it can to protect the engine - BAD NEWS FOR ENGINE INTERNALS. But this also means that it is likely that he is damaging his engine before the ECU can react.

I give his engine 6 months at the outside.

[Broaders]

I'll show this thread to them to show what damage may occur, this should make them realise that I aint wasting money on the rica upgrade.

By the way how much is the rica 280 upgrade, is there a discount through the forum ?

[Wobbly Dave]

Yes there is a discount for being a member of the forum. Contact Justin for a discount code.
I believe the 280 RICA upgrade is somewhere around the £275 mark.

[Liddo]

I'll show this thread to them to show what damage may occur, this should make them realise that I aint wasting money on the rica upgrade.

By the way how much is the rica 280 upgrade, is there a discount through the forum ?

I paid £350 all in, by post, but I wish I'd of took the time to go to VT, cos they would of found the split hose, and saved me £700+ :(

[Liddo]

Hey Liddo, if you've got your car back by the weekend and haven't sold the ECU and can make it round on Saturday I wouldn't mind you taking me for a quick spin in it so I can see what difference RICA makes.

I can't wait 'til I've got the cash for all the mods I want to make.

Regards

Andy


Andy, certainly mate, you can give her a bit of welly down the 62, between Roby and Huyton if ya want ;) Hope Ive got a bit of time! PM me your mobile, and I'll give you a ring if i have.

Cheers

[BigJC]

Andy, certainly mate, you can give her a bit of welly down the 62, between Roby and Huyton if ya want ;) Hope Ive got a bit of time! PM me your mobile, and I'll give you a ring if i have.

Cheers
Or I might know of a RICA'd S70 that will definately be there on Saturday! Best do it before brake change, I remember the last time I had new pads!!!

Back on topic: Get a RICA, they're ggggrrrreat! or was that frosties?

[craig]

you now know the difference bettween the two but the performace differance is very different .if you fit an mbc first and later get a 280 rica you will find you have to drive the car differently to get the same power as the mbc. because all the power comes in at once and very low in the rev range (mbc) very good fun but sounds a bit harsh and when it does overboost you do crap yourself thinking youve stuffed it big time and it might not be long till you do. i do like them and if you dont over do it you could be fine .wheras with the 280 rica the power builds in safely and very smooth it feels effort less and controled but if you want to race someone you will need the revs higher than with an mbc but at least you can do it with a bit more confidence that rods wont be changing their shape. thats how i found it anyway.

[mraldonnelly]

Or I might know of a RICA'd S70 that will definately be there on Saturday! Best do it before brake change, I remember the last time I had new pads!!!

Back on topic: Get a RICA, they're ggggrrrreat! or was that frosties?

Fantastic Big JC, never realised yours was RICA'd!

If we do take her for a spin it will definately have to be before the brake change - you'll need to bed the new discs and pads in gently for the first hundred miles or two.

Regards

Andy

[LeeT5]

The other issue is that you are fitting an airleak to a closed metered system.


I agree Dave, but aren't you talking about a 'Bleed type' MBC there?? The MBC i got fitted is not the 'Bleed type' and does not leak any air anywhere.

There are two types of MBC (cant remember what the other type is called) but the 'bleed type' are ££££ and definately ones to avoid.
They react to weather conditions which is not good for a start.

All i would say is do your research b4 you MOD. I spent a week researching how they work, pros cons etc b4 i fitted one. Yes i hit overboost whilst adjusting but then who doesnt? Now mine is sweet.

Would recommend getting iridium plugs tho to withstand the extra heat and make sure you fit a seperate boost guage else there a pain in the arse to set up and get running properly. Some ppl will disagree with me on the seperate guage front but i'm talking from experience. You try and adjust 1/2 a psi on the standard guage... :doh: IMPOSSIBLE! Total spend for me was about £60 inc pillar pod, guage and MBC.

If i had £300 to throw away then maybe i would of gone for rica but needed to get other stuff too like strut brace and lowering springs etc.

[Wobbly Dave]

Yeah but when the pressure releases the valve in the MBC - that is an airleak???

I dont feel that you'd be throwing away £300 but like my mum often says "if you aint got it you cant spend it."

I can spend vast amounts on credit on my motors and not feel bad. I should be more careful.

I agree with Lee. Do your reading now (and not just on here). Inexperience/lack of knowledge will do you no favours before you modify.

Finally I would also check that fitting MBC is OK with your insurers. It is not invisible like RICA.

[mraldonnelly]

Finally I would also check that fitting MBC is OK with your insurers. It is not invisible like RICA.

Not that you'd recommend non-dosclosure at all though Dave?

[nobananas]

I fitted an mbc to the missus 850 but this was more to compensate for a slack wastegate and lack of time to set it up properly. I set the boost only very slightly higher then 'normal' which certainly crisped it up a bit. I would totally agree that Rica is a far safer option and I certainly won't be winding up the boost on mine any further.