Brakes - how long to fit?

[BigJC]

My bigger discs, carriers and 'police spec' pads turned up yesterday, how many hours labour will a garage charge to fit them?

[siamblue]

It's a easy job mate, why not do it yourself? no longer than 2 hours,
60 minutes maybe?

[BigJC]

It's the bleeding bit that puts me off! I'd screw it up and end up bending my motor...

[Andrew]

It's the bleeding bit that puts me off! I'd screw it up and end up bending my motor...

Maybe see if there is another member in your area who can help you out and teach you whats what ... ?

Ac.

[The Flying Banana]

It's the bleeding bit that puts me off! I'd screw it up and end up bending my motor...


Get a self bleed kit..the tyre you attach to a small compressor or your tyre...screw the cap on the resevior and go round opening each valve till it runs clear with no air...works a treat!!!

[mraldonnelly]

JC,

Can you get to Huyton next weekend? I'm in Leeds on Sunday and have to be in Frodsham at 12:30 on Saturday to take a few measurements in my new house but should be back by 2pm. That'll give us a couple of hours light but we can always carry on in the dark with flashlights if necessary.

Never done the upgrade myself (sold my 850 before I got the chance and my V70 already has 302's) but it can't be any harder than changing pads and discs.

I can come to you but that means I'd have to remember to bring all the tools needed. Not a problem at all but if I forget something (which is likely) then it'll hold things up while I go home and get it.

Where in Cheshire are you? You may be close to my new house anyway.

Regards

Andy

[Andrew]

See this place rocks - always a member willing to help another out - all you have to do is ask...

Well done Andy. A+ ;)

[BigJC]

JC,

Can you get to Huyton next weekend? I'm in Leeds on Sunday and have to be in Frodsham at 12:30 on Saturday to take a few measurements in my new house but should be back by 2pm. That'll give us a couple of hours light but we can always carry on in the dark with flashlights if necessary.

Never done the upgrade myself (sold my 850 before I got the chance and my V70 already has 302's) but it can't be any harder than changing pads and discs.

I can come to you but that means I'd have to remember to bring all the tools needed. Not a problem at all but if I forget something (which is likely) then it'll hold things up while I go home and get it.

Where in Cheshire are you? You may be close to my new house anyway.

Regards

Andy
Cheers Andy!

I'm in Gt Sankey, Warrington just off J8 of the M62 (Ikea). I'm happy to travel to either Frodsham or Huyton. I got an 8 cell maglite for crimbo so light won't stop play!

What else do I need to bring apart from the car and parts? One of these easy bleed kits?

I'll pm my number so we can sort out times etc.

Cheers,
Jon

[mraldonnelly]

Cheers Andy!

I'm in Gt Sankey, Warrington just off J8 of the M62 (Ikea). I'm happy to travel to either Frodsham or Huyton. I got an 8 cell maglite for crimbo so light won't stop play!

What else do I need to bring apart from the car and parts? One of these easy bleed kits?

I'll pm my number so we can sort out times etc.

Cheers,
Jon

No worries Jon,

You shouldn't need to bring anything except the car and parts - I've got the rest, including an EasiBleed kit.

Oh, just thought, is yours an 850 or x70? If it's an 850 then do you have Perfos or Columbas on her? The 302's won't fit behind Columbas.

If you've a x70 then are you sure she doesn't 302's already?

Regards

Andy

[BlackBeast]

Dont you need longer brake hoses for the 302 upgrade???

[mraldonnelly]

By the way, got your PM, I'll give you a bell in the week.

regards

Andy

[BigJC]

No worries Jon,

You shouldn't need to bring anything except the car and parts - I've got the rest, including an EasiBleed kit.

Oh, just thought, is yours an 850 or x70? If it's an 850 then do you have Perfos or Columbas on her? The 302's won't fit behind Columbas.

If you've a x70 then are you sure she doesn't 302's already?

Regards

Andy

I've got an S70 with Perfo's, well I think they're perfos's:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/joncorry/84_1_b.jpg
I'll give the VT boys a call about longer brake hoses in the morning.

[mraldonnelly]

Yup, they're Perfos. You sure the discs aren't already 302's? Might just be worth measuring them up and comparing to the 302's not yet fitted.

If you've gotta buy new hoses, stainless steel braided hoses are the way to go - getting the old hoses off could be the hardest part of the job if they've corroded onto the union nuts.

Regards

Andy

[mraldonnelly]

Just been out to look at my wheels and brakes.

From what I can see, you brakes do look smaller but it's difficult to tell for sure. It looks like you've got more clearance between wheel and caliper but that could just be the angle of the pic.

Regards

Andy

[BigJC]

I've just been out taking piccies of my wheels in the dark, much to the amusement of my neighbours, and the existing disc does look smaller than the new ones. I'll pop a wheel off tomorrow to check.

Here's the exisiting gap:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/joncorry/NewCamera002.jpg

[Wobbly Dave]

It's the bleeding bit that puts me off! I'd screw it up and end up bending my motor...
You dont need to bleed the brakes when you do a 302 conversion. Here is my how 2 on it...http://www.volvot5.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=6695

[mraldonnelly]

You dont need to bleed the brakes when you do a 302 conversion. Here is my how 2 on it...http://www.volvot5.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=6695

Nice one Dave - so no need to change the brake hoses then? Saves the hassle of trying to free corroded unions (unless Jon has bought braided hoses in which case I'll change them, or try to, too).

So if the hoses don't need changing then as you say, the system doesn't need bleeding. However, we may as well bleed the system through (when was the fluid last changed Jon?) at the same time.

Your guide is brilliant Dave thanks - I'll print it out and use it together with my Haynes manual (I'll have to dig the Haynes out first - it's buried in the spare room somewhere!). One point though, where you're talking about winding the pistons back in, isn't it necessary to remove the cap from the reservoir in order to prevent damage to the servo or cylinder? Obviously it may also be necessary to remove some of the old fluid too. If this is the case (I may be imagining it) then it may be an idea to edit the original thread to note this (although I did only skim it so apologies if it's already mentioned).

Regards

Andy

[Wobbly Dave]

I only found that it was necessary to just keep an eye on the level within the servo reservoir. You may well wish to unscrew the cap? I have never had any issues with the level and pushing back the caliper pistons, unless I was doing all 4 corners. There is another how 2 in there on that.

I personally have never done a hose change - for the very reason you state. I dont fancy having to put in new copper pipes.

[mraldonnelly]

Fair enough Dave - it was just something I recall from somewhere but I can't remember where.

I guess there's no harm in trying to loosen the hoses but if there's too much resistance then they're probably best left in situ to avoid twisting the copper pipes.

I've actually got a set of braided hoses which I bought ages ago with the intention of fitting to my 850 (funnily enough, it used to be BigJC's 850 prior to that) but never got round to it.

Do you reckon these will fit with 302mm discs too then? I don't see why not really because there can't be that much difference between the length of hoses needed for 280's and 302's.

I might give 'em a go soon if they fit.

Regards

Andy

[mraldonnelly]

Of course, the downside to opening the reservoir is that you're letting moisture into the fluid but then if you're changing the fluid anyway it's not really an issue.

If the fluid isn't being changed then there's a good argument not to leave the cap open.

[Wobbly Dave]

The flexible hose bit is not that long. I doubt volvo would be bothered making a different hose for the 302 as the overall distance wouldnt change that much. The 302 carrier only moves the caliper by an additional 11mm from the axle. Given the position of the caliper, I doubt the net distance between the end of the solid pipe and the union on the caliper itself will be any different.

[BlackBeast]

Ok, a month ago i asked about the brake hoses when changing over to 302mm carriers, this is what VT/Hamish said about it:-

Hi,

You do need new front brake hoses (approx. 1 inch longer).
We stock them in braided in either a Kit (to do all 4 corners) or for the financially challenged just as a front pair.

Regards,
Hamish.

[Wobbly Dave]

I am more likely to be wrong then. I remember now that the example I gave - already had the braided hoses fitted (my bad). So it might be necessary after all :slap:

[BigJC]

I'll ring VT in the morning and order the longer ones just in case!

[gazjacko]

You definitely need the longer hoses! and anyway the old ones will have some inbuilt 'give' in them. I'm sure half the improvement of the conversion is from the better feel the braided hoses give.

[Wobbly Dave]

I think the grief of fitting braided hoses far outweighs the benefits - IMHO.

[BigJC]

Balls, just shelled out for new braided hoses from VT!
Anyone know the part number for the bolts? My local dealer couldn't help...

[pzorb]

I think the grief of fitting braided hoses far outweighs the benefits - IMHO.

What exactly is the grief? The whole flushing and bleeding the system? Or is it just fiddly?

[racer]

I think the grief of fitting braided hoses far outweighs the benefits - IMHO.

Hmmm. Having finally caught His Imperial Wobblyness saying something I can disagree with, I'm now hoisted right up my own petard as I can’t really articulate the whole “feel” thing.

Just take it as read, it feels better. Does it feel so much better that it’s worth four hours lying on the floor and getting covered in brake fluid? YES.

Not the most convincing argument I suppose, but I don’t think you’ll be disappointed with the results of fitting them.

[Colin 850 T5]

You ought to change the fluid as well. New fluid will
make more difference than most people realise when things get hot. It is a two person job but worth the effort.

[mraldonnelly]

What exactly is the grief? The whole flushing and bleeding the system? Or is it just fiddly?

The grief is getting the old hoses off - the brake unions are a different metal to the copper pipe unions and they corrode and sort of weld themselves together - a read bi-atch of a job!

Flushing and bleeding is the easy bit.

Regards

Andy

[mraldonnelly]

Balls, just shelled out for new braided hoses from VT!
Anyone know the part number for the bolts? My local dealer couldn't help...

JC,

If you can't get the bolts it's not the end of the world, we will be able to use the old bolts - it would just be better to fit new ones if you have 'em. I'm always cautious with things like brakes and try not to cut corners unless absolutely necessary.

One thing I've just thought of - if you've got locking wheel nuts, don't forget to bring the nut key. We don't want to fall at the first hurdle.

Regards

Andy

[Wobbly Dave]

Hmmm. Having finally caught His Imperial Wobblyness saying something I can disagree with, I'm now hoisted right up my own petard as I can’t really articulate the whole “feel” thing.

Just take it as read, it feels better. Does it feel so much better that it’s worth four hours lying on the floor and getting covered in brake fluid? YES.

Not the most convincing argument I suppose, but I don’t think you’ll be disappointed with the results of fitting them.
There is no doubt with enough time, swearing and patience I could get the old unions undone, but I think I might just wimp out and get it done by someone else (shock gasp horror) LOL just so I didnt have the grief myself. I have done brake lines in the past both of the solid and flexible variety and you can keep it!!

If you say the feel is better then so be it. I believe you. Someone else can have the hassle though!!

[racer]

> Someone else can have the hassle though!!
ROFL WCIBF (Whilst Covered In Brake Fluid)
Fair point Dave. To be honest, last time I did this I just got a new set of unions, chopped the old ones and got my flaring tool out!!

[mraldonnelly]

> chopped the old ones and got my flaring tool out!!

Your tool's flared! Ouch! Sounds painful LOL.

Seriously - if we can't get these old hoses off, do you think they will still fit the 302mm carriers? I'm just worried that if we can't get the hoses off then we won't be able to complete the job so I'm hoping that

a) the old hoses won't put up too much resistance
b) if they do, the old hoses will fit OK

BigJC, if you can, it might be an idea to get a can of WD40 out and start spraying the unions where the flexible hoses meet the copper pipes in the two front wheel arches. Give 'em a good spray when you get in and then again before you go to bed tonight, tomorrow and on Saturday morning. It should be possible to get to them without taking the wheels off but you may need to stretch round the wheel a little.

Do you also have a wire brush? I can't find mine. If you haven't don't worry - I'll get one on Saturday morning.

Regards

Andy

[BigJC]

No worries, I'll do that when I get in tonight, and tomorrrow etc.....
I've just got new bolts on order at the dealer so thanks to RUFE for the part number!!! Might as well have shiney stuff all round, well apart from the calipers themselves.

Brake fluid is all I need to pick up now, any recommendations? Is DOT5 better than 4 or doesn't it work like that?

Cheers!

[mraldonnelly]

No worries, I'll do that when I get in tonight, and tomorrrow etc.....
I've just got new bolts on order at the dealer so thanks to RUFE for the part number!!! Might as well have shiney stuff all round, well apart from the calipers themselves.

Brake fluid is all I need to pick up now, any recommendations? Is DOT5 better than 4 or doesn't it work like that?

Cheers!

Technically the higher the number the better it is. We're supposed to use DOT 4 as a minimum.

I can't remember which way round it is but either DOT 5 or DOT 5.1 shouldn't be used in our cars. I think it's DOT 5 that shouldn't be used (because I think it's silicone or something) so DOT 5.1 is the better bet if you want to exceed the minimum DOT 4.

DOT 4 would be fine though.

Is anyone else able to confirm DOT 5 or 5.1?

Cheers

Andy

[swordy21]

I've just done this(ish), replaced a calliper, and had the abs pump off. Hence needed to replace my brake fluid. DOT 5.1 is the recommended fluid, I used 2 litres.

[woz]

My bigger discs, carriers and 'police spec' pads turned up yesterday, how many hours labour will a garage charge to fit them?
Whers the best place to get the 302 carriers? Trying t get some discs - if i fail, where did you get yours??
Cheers
Woz.
:confused

[JO5EPH]

I got my carriers and discs from 'Marshalls', do a search on here to find the contact info ;)

Joe :)

[dreadly]

I personally have never done a hose change - for the very reason you state. I dont fancy having to put in new copper pipes.

I had to put in a replacment copper section T'other day on a P1V70 cos the copper unions just rounded off, it wasn't that bad a job, but not what you would call fun! - Definitly best avoided if possible.