Stage II RICA

[Wobbly Dave]

Here is her power graph from VT

Flattest torque curve you ever did see...

http://www.volvot5.co.uk/forums/vbgarage.php?do=getimage&id=602

Sadly missed - still I thought it was a good/cool thing to show her power graph. Odd thing was I was at VT the night of the accident to pick up this chart amongst other things.

Rest in Pieces - Felicity.

[volvotuning]

Dave, the little step at the higher rpm was smoothed out but I didn't have time to look for the graph.

The filename of this image was "Wobbly C70 T5 Lunar Lander.jpg" :)

Adam.

[Justin]

I drove the car, and have to say it was a smooth as silk, even though it had all of the power and torque shown :)

Bigger and better wobbly ;)

[Wobbly Dave]

I drove the car, and have to say it was a smooth as silk, even though it had all of the power and talk shown :)

Bigger and better wobbly ;)
Absolutely J - bigger and better. next year I hope ;) - something with a Haldex system? hmmm I wonder?

[Andrew]

Adam...

is that whp ? and how many hours on the RR would a map like that take ?

Ac.

[Wobbly Dave]

Dave, the little step at the higher rpm was smoothed out but I didn't have time to look for the graph.

The filename of this image was "Wobbly C70 T5 Lunar Lander.jpg" :)

Adam.
She was uber smoooth.

[volvotuning]

Adam...

is that whp ? and how many hours on the RR would a map like that take ?

Ac.

Yep, whp. Assuming there is nothing mechanically wrong with the car, you're probably looking at 2-5 hours.

Adam.

[Wobbly Dave]

Yep it is. And in terms of time on the Dyno - a long time - and runs - a lot.

In actual fact the first map shown above isnt the finished article. Adam did additional work once catriona arrived (the big blue fan) and once the dodgy O2 sensor was replaced - which (as Adam said) smoothed out the lump around 5K.

[Wobbly Dave]

I am hoping Ad might get the time soon to dig out the final map graph.

Arse! Still kicking myself! :slap:

[Engineer]

Absolutely J - bigger and better. next year I hope ;) - something with a Haldex system? hmmm I wonder?Its next on my list Dave the oldest is about 3 years old now and getting in the right £ range...............

[Alfaman]

Adam,

To give us a comparison of crankshaft bhp to wheel bhp is it possible for you to say what a standard car, say T5 with 225 Vovlo HP, would produce at the wheels on your dyno?

Many thanks

Ian

[volvotuning]

Generally, anything from 175-190 bhp for a manual 850 T5. Does depend on the car and each one is different.

Adam.

[Wobbly Dave]

Ball park figure is a loss of about 50BHP through the tranny IMHO

[Andrew]

Ball park figure is a loss of about 50BHP through the tranny IMHO

Auto tend to loose more than manual though right ?

[Wobbly Dave]

First off it is impossible to calculate the loss for an auto.

Once the gear is engaged - I am not sure. The Aisin Warner 50-42 AT once the clutch packs have grabbed a gear should loose not much more than the manual clutch. I doubt there will be much movement within the torque converter once it is past the stall point.

It also has a lockup in 4th - which effectively bypasses the torque converter, so at that point there is no more loss than a manual clutch. The TC has some take up to reach getting past its stall point which is where I guess most of the additional loss occurs.?? But I am only guessing. I suppose the additional friction from the planetary gear sets is also another point of loss - as the gears within it have more contact with each other than in the manual?

It is a shame that for some reason the industry works on crank power - which isnt a useful figure really.

[Engineer]

As far as I know lock up is in 3rd as well on the auto so no loss there to speak of, that just leaves the lag which is countered for somewhat by the torque multiplication of the stator in the TC. Best use the wheel figure then guys and leave us old auto pilots alone. :remybussi

[volvotuning]

You guys all get yourselves in a real mess talking about this!!!

The bottom line is this - given two mechanically identical cars with same weight, same conditions and drivers, the car which puts down more power to the road will be faster, assuming both are driven in an identical manner. It is as simple as that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, it doesn't matter how much you have at the engine. It doesn't even matter how much you have at the road, because at the end of the day there is no such thing as two identical cars, or two identical drivers, or even identical conditions. There will always be some variable which will give one car the edge over another. Even if one car has more power than the other, it doesn't mean to say it will be faster.

Adam.

[Engineer]

You guys all get yourselves in a real mess talking about this!!!

The bottom line is this - given two mechanically identical cars with same weight, same conditions and drivers, the car which puts down more power to the road will be faster. It is as simple as that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, it doesn't matter how much you have at the engine. It doesn't even matter how much you have at the road, because at the end of the day there is no such thing as two identical cars, or two identical drivers, or even identical conditions. There will always be some variable which will give one car the edge over another. Even if one car has more power than the other, it doesn't mean to say it will be faster.

Adam.Yup totally agree, but watch your blood pressure mate, steady boy.......................:scared:

[volvotuning]

Too late - my brain has exploded!!!

Adam.

[Engineer]

Too late - my brain has exploded!!!

Adam.
What a waste :slap: , whose next?

[BrightonBreezy]

Here is her power graph from VT

Flattest torque curve you ever did see...

http://www.volvot5.co.uk/forums/vbgarage.php?do=getimage&id=602

Sadly missed - still I thought it was a good/cool thing to show her power graph. Odd thing was I was at VT the night of the accident to pick up this chart amongst other things.

Rest in Pieces - Felicity.


Wobbly / Adam,
What did you do to achieve these results? 19T + Rica stage II, IIRC. Is the map then further fine tuned to your car & requirements? How much difference does the extra fine tuning make, considering the additional cost of dyno time, etc.

[After_Shock]

Every car is different even if the car doesnt have any other mods, especially as they get older and the miles pile up.

A full custom map can certainly be worthwhile, it may not up the bhp from a generic map but it can make the car much more driveable.

If the car has any other mods, such as a different cat or intercooler then a custom map is certainly worthwhile to get the extra bhp aswell as make it more driveable.

[Ian C70T5]

I cant wait, im gonna be part of the Stage 2 club next year, once i have my 19T .. Hamish and Adam will work their magic.. well excited

[Wobbly Dave]

Ian - I am sure you will be thrilled - it is a very unique thing, mostly because every car reacts differently (like Ad said there are no 2 alike). I truly hope that she come out the same or better than flic. I also hope you can now in the cold light of day, appreciate why I backed out on selling out of the Stage II club, despite my own stupidity.

I would welcome the opportunity when you come down to see first hand how it pans out.

I am excited for you too.

[aeroresh]

I can vouch for that too. Although mine appears to be putting out a tidge less than Wobbly's did (back to this no 2 cars are alike thing) its still bl**dy quick and feels quite a bit stronger at any rpm than with the stage 1.

Anyone with a standard or stage 1 car has to experience the 5000 rpm and upwards thrust to know its money well spent. :B_steerin

Its hard to put feelings into writing with this. My own personal experience is that with the Stage 1, the car felt a bit of a fake....all mid range and no top end. With the 19T you get the mid range shove (which is even better )and the top end to match....plus spool up is quicker too.

It just feels more of a proper performace car rather than just a quick saloon. Anyone who has experienced a mapped 19T car will know what Im talking about. :B_blite:

[hamish]

Anyone with a standard or stage 1 car has to experience the 5000 rpm and upwards thrust to know its money well spent. :B_steerin
Its hard to put feelings into writing with this. My own personal experience is that with the Stage 1, the car felt a bit of a fake....all mid range and no top end. With the 19T you get the mid range shove (which is even better )and the top end to match....plus spool up is quicker too.

It just feels more of a proper performace car rather than just a quick saloon. Anyone who has experienced a mapped 19T car will know what Im talking about. :B_blite:
Couldn't have said it better myself !

Regards,
Hamish.

[Ian C70T5]

Cheers Dave. I'll let you know when she's booked in

[Vikingxl]

I have been lucky enough to drive Wobblys 850 with the 19t and Justins V70r with the hybrid turbo and have to agree it makes a completely different car well worth the money if you've got it to spend.