D5 misfire?

[Tee5alive]

Hi

well now I have most of the fault codes cleared and sorted I thought all would be well but now I have a misfire between 1500 and 2500 RPM? NOTHING whatsoever on VIDA to do with engine faults so Im at a loss?

I even have the cruise logo back when I press the steering wheel button!! But as I have a SAS fault I dont think it will engage?

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[davebb]

when was the fuel filter last changed, also look at the MAF sensor, give it a clean with some IPA, do not use brake cleaner,
Dave

[Tee5alive]

Oh nice one Thanks Dave I have no idea when the filter was changed I'll get that done.

[Tee5alive]

Hi Dave I have got hold of IPA now, can you tell me why brake cleaner wont do the same job please, for my future info

cheers

[LeeT5]

Hi Dave I have got hold of IPA now, can you tell me why brake cleaner wont do the same job please, for my future info

cheers

Assuming Dave intends to use as a panel wipe?

The main reasons for this is IPA is made up of two ingredients, Alchohol and Propan. Unlike Brake cleaner, which contains many harmful ingredients including;

Chlorinated Brake Cleaner. Chlorinated brake cleaner is nonflammable; however, it is harsh on your skin and is known to be a possible carcinogen. ...
Tetrachloroethylene. ...
Carbon Dioxide. ...
Non-Chlorinated Brake Cleaner. ...
Heptane. ...
Acetone. ...
Carbon Dioxide

Brake cleaner may possibly damage clear coat, so why risk it?

IPA from pharmacies is typically mixed with water, about 60-70% IPA. However, if you want pure IPA, then you gotta buy it from an Industrial source, then your talking 99% pure.

[LeeT5]

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Air quality sensor's are a common failure and often people don't bother to replace them due to their cost. However, if you have Automatic Climate control, the automatic recirculate function won't work! Meaning, your interal vent will remain 'open' when your stuck behind that dirty diesel chucking out harmful pollutants (unless of course, you manually close it). Your handbook gives a good description of it's function. I think it's about £140 to replace and lives above the blower fan in the scuttle.

DDM-004C - has an internal fault, short circuit, corrosion on pcb, water damage on wiring....something like that and is the reason why you also have fault codes; **DDM-0025 and PDM-0007 (Neither of which will clear until you fix the Drivers door module fault).

REM-4F44 - means what it says. Replace the parking sensor (No3) and voilà! (It could also be some corrosion on the sensor connector harness behind the rear bumper cover ;)

UEM-0004 - This is common too in ALL P2 platforms. Basically you need to do this....

http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/showthread.php?56655-Alarm-System-Service-Required&highlight=

My good friend Bill (the guy you bought the battery from) had the same issue and did a much cheaper fix. Time will tell if it lasts, but from my understanding it's all good so far. It does involve some open heart surgery on the module itself, so if your not good with soldering or have access to a dremel then you might wanna buy it from Volvo.
Give him a PM!

SAS-0007 - This could be something or nothing. Firstly, check ALL fuses everywhere. Clear the faults then see what comes back first...SAS-0007 or SAS-000E? Does the fault come back before you actually drive the car? If so, it could be the SAS gone bad.

Do you know if the steering wheel has been removed? If so, it could have something to do with it.
If the fault only comes back after you've actually turned the steering wheel, then it points to a faulty SAS and not the module.

Regards the Misfire, I've PM'd you about this.

**DDM = Drivers Door Modle
PDM = Passenger Door Module

Clearly both faults are unlikely to exist on both mirrors as that would be not only super unlucky but highly unlikely! Therefore, a classic red herring.

Hope this helps?

[Tee5alive]

Many thanks mate - yes after clearring faults and going through the restart sequence on VIDA the SAS is there straight away so a duff sensor?

The alarm cure I have heard of as a mate at work has a Volvo and done the battery replacement its not an issue for driving so its low priority compared to the other faults.

[davebb]

Assuming Dave intends to use as a panel wipe?

No, this is to clean the maf, as I does not leave any residue, an like you say lee it does not damage anything, and yes use 99.9%
Thanks Dave

[Tee5alive]

Still got the misfire after cleaning the MAF. Changed all the filters today the fule filter was BLACK!

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The misfire I think has lessened but still there. I have Wynns Gold Label in the tank and a full tank of Shell Plus diesel so need to go for a good long motorway drive to see if it can shift and crap outa the injectors?

[LeeT5]

It may scratch the surface but I doubt you’ll notice any difference.

[Tee5alive]

Im beginning to suspect 1 or more injectors and at £360 a pop thats more than the car is worth so it may soon be the gas axe for it - losing my patience with this heap. PETROL manual everytime for me in future! I thought I would try a D5 as they were renowned for being 'reliable' umm REALLY??? Ive yet to see it. I guess I got ripped off by a less than truthful seller!

Shame I cant gut it to service the T5 but its a facelift so not much fits. The first time in over 20 years, I have had a Volvo let me down TWICE! :(

[davebb]

Hi you could try doing a liqui moly diesel purge, use 1L, you run the car on it, look on youtube,
a lot of people have had very good results with it
Dave

[Tee5alive]

Hi you could try doing a liqui moly diesel purge, use 1L, you run the car on it, look on youtube,
a lot of people have had very good results with it
Dave

ooh sounds good I'll give it a go

[davebb]

Hi you just need some pipe and a cheap in-line filter and some new clips as the Volvo ones are crimped on, use 1L , it will take about 40-50 mins to run thru your engine, you run the car on tick over increasing up to 2000rpm some times,
there is a good video on youtube , simon, sirobb is doing it on his 2002 s60 D5,
Dave

[davebb]

unplug all the injectors and look at the plugs to see if they are all clean and the terminals are all good and tight and no wire damage,
Dave

[Tee5alive]

Lee heres is an update of the VIDA faults, I cant post pics on PM message!

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What worries me is this

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Am I right in thinking, if I keep the engine running the HP pump runs directly off the engine so fuel is SUCKED into the injectors, but if i stop the engine if the LP pump isnt working or faulty it wont restart? Thats whats happening. If I leave it overnight it starts as normal but the misfire is there, havent had a chance to do a Liqui Moly flush yes as Dave BB suggests.

A guy at work with Volvos also said to remove the EGR and check that? Getting annoyed with this car as its holding me up fixing my 2 T5's it is SUPPOSED to be my runabout - hahaha it cant even CRAWL let alone run! :wallbash:

[LeeT5]

Fuel is not sucked into the injectors, the fuel pressure should be minimum 280Bar in the rail to start. Once started, the fuel pressure is kept at a regulated pressure by the FP regulator. A fuel pressure sensor, determines if enough pressure is present in the rail to enable the car to run.
The injectors simply open/close when switched by the ECM.
Looking at those fault codes and your symptoms I’d say you have either a faulty regulator or more commonly, the FPS is faulty.
Sticking/faulty EGR valve would cause it to not restart, especially when cold rather than hot.
However, once running they never normally cause an engine to just cut out and certainly don’t cause a misfire.
If the LP pump (or electric pump in the tank) is not running, then the car would never start in the first place.
I will also say this; on rare occasions it has been known for sludge to build up in the tank. This is sucked into the filter and will cause a low fuel pressure fault code. It will cause the car to cut out eventually and lack of power/performance.

[LeeT5]

Assuming you’ve recently changed the fuel filter, the only quick easy way to check for sludge contamination is to remove the fuel filter, making a note of the tank side of the filter. Then carefully cut open the filter and inspect for large build up of sludge in the filter. If this is evident on a new filter, then the only course of action is to remove the fuel tank and wash it out.

[Tee5alive]

cheers mate I changed the filter last week so I'll need a look. Howeever after watching Sirobbs video on the Liqui Moly injector clean thats impressive, the crud it blew out of the injectors!

I have Wynns Gold label in the tank but too diluted to do anything and I would have to run the tank dry (600 odd miles) and the damn thing wont even rin for more than 30 miles without the 'wimp mode' cutting in. I think my best bet is to shoot a dead horse and sell it fast! Im throwing ££££'s at this bucket! No way will I EVER buy another diesel auto ANYTHING :splat:

BL**DY THING

[davebb]

Hi I would say it could be the LP pump not working as it should, you can get a pressure gauge kit cheap, or a leaking injector,
Dave

[Tee5alive]

Hi I would say it could be the LP pump not working as it should, you can get a pressure gauge kit cheap, or a leaking injector,
Dave

Thanks Dave I'll try a few more things, I have ordered Liqui Moly and pipe so I'll do that then Im cutting my losses and selling it

[Tee5alive]

Fuel is not sucked into the injectors, the fuel pressure should be minimum 280Bar in the rail to start. Once started, the fuel pressure is kept at a regulated pressure by the FP regulator. A fuel pressure sensor, determines if enough pressure is present in the rail to enable the car to run.
The injectors simply open/close when switched by the ECM.
Looking at those fault codes and your symptoms I’d say you have either a faulty regulator or more commonly, the FPS is faulty.
Sticking/faulty EGR valve would cause it to not restart, especially when cold rather than hot.
However, once running they never normally cause an engine to just cut out and certainly don’t cause a misfire.
If the LP pump (or electric pump in the tank) is not running, then the car would never start in the first place.
I will also say this; on rare occasions it has been known for sludge to build up in the tank. This is sucked into the filter and will cause a low fuel pressure fault code. It will cause the car to cut out eventually and lack of power/performance.


Hi Lee do you mean 280 PSI rather than Bar as that seems horrendously high and I can't find a pressure test kit that goes that high!

[LeeT5]

Hi Lee do you mean 280 PSI rather than Bar as that seems horrendously high and I can't find a pressure test kit that goes that high!

No, I mean 280bar NOT psi.
280Bar is standard starting pressure for most high pressure diesels. When under load at high rpm, the pressure can be as much as 2000Bar in the fuel rail, yes, 2000Bar!! Which is why you should never ‘crack’ the injectors on a high pressure diesel as they will invariably leak, unless you fit new injector seals.

[Yosser]

If the LP pump (or electric pump in the tank) is not running, then the car would never start in the first place.

Not true. My experience is the car will start and run just fine with a knackered in tank pump. You're likely to "run out" of fuel due to it not transferring from one side of the tank to the other, but other than that it'll be ok.

[Tee5alive]

No, I mean 280bar NOT psi.
280Bar is standard starting pressure for most high pressure diesels. When under load at high rpm, the pressure can be as much as 2000Bar in the fuel rail, yes, 2000Bar!! Which is why you should never ‘crack’ the injectors on a high pressure diesel as they will invariably leak, unless you fit new injector seals.


OK Lee cheers I need to find a fuel test kit that will go up to that pressure.

[davebb]

Read the High pressure with a OBD2 and see if it is in spec, I can give you readings from mine if you need it, look at sirobb youtube , I think he shows it at 700rpm,
Dave

[LeeT5]

OK Lee cheers I need to find a fuel test kit that will go up to that pressure.

Use VIDA to see 'live readings' or 'Actual data'.

[Tee5alive]

Many thanks guys I'll get on it

[LeeT5]

This explains symtoms and clear understanding of how Diesel injectors fail on a common rail system:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUvWnOd5lFw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUvWnOd5lFw

The fact your symptoms are a misfire, bad starting and long cranking are all indicative of a failing injector.

[davebb]

Thanks Dave I'll try a few more things, I have ordered Liqui Moly and pipe so I'll do that then Im cutting my losses and selling it

How are you getting on with your D5
Thanks Dave

[Tee5alive]

Not had a spare minute to get near it Dave. I have been assembling the kit to do a Liqui Poly purge on it. Trouble is I have to get my old dads house ready to sell as hes gone into a home now and needs the money! Up to my neck in work!

This will be the last chance for the D5 to shape up after the injector and EGR clean. If its still misfiring I have no more time to waste on a car thats SUPPOSED to be my run about to use whilst I get the 2 T5's repaired and MOT'd! Its let me down from day one if I cant get a decent price for it I'll scrap it - IM THAT angry with it.

I never thought a Diesel Volvo would be such a POS!!! I was looking forward to trying out a Diesel on the long runs I do - but after this experience i will NEVER buy another diesel anything! My PETROL T5's never miss a beat the V70 even got me home on 4 pots once when it lost a plug! THATS RELIABLE!

I'll update you when I can get time to work on it.

[davebb]

Hi let me know how you get on,
Were is your dads house, is it near me, I am in Hampshire,
Dave

[Tee5alive]

Hi Dave

no right down by the coast in Sussex! Cheers mate

[davebb]

ok
I hope all is well,
let use know how the car is,
good luck, Dave

[Tee5alive]

Today I actually got a few hours to work on the 'heap' so did the diesel purge. Sadly NOT ONE BIT of rubbish came out showing that the injectors are SPOTLESS! However as I had to remove the fuse for the LP pump in the tank, whilst running on the purge jollop........NO MISFIRE???? I ran 1 litre of DP through the injectors roughly 45 minutes with varying throttle opening particularly the misfire range of 1500- 2000. Im not sure though as there MIGHT still be a little roughness there.

A chap in a unit next to mine came in, he runs a small garage and he showed me the injector looms often fail on the D5!!! I removed each one and reseated it but they do need cleaning with electrolube. Replaced all the pipes, replaced the fuse started up for leak tests again NO MISFIRE Hmmmm??

The only way it manifest sitself is on a run on the motorway between 20 - 30 miles then drops into 'wimp mode' so I need to take it on a test run one evening when the flippin sun has ****ed off so if im stuck on the hard shoulder I wont be dying from sunstroke! Anyway if this thing fails on me again its the cutting torch for it or ebay! It was SUPPOSED to be a run about to get me around to sort my T5's out and its failed miserably! The chap with the garage told me "D5's are great when they behave - but if they get a problem - look out!"

Running the purge

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Nothing yet in the jar?

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After test NOTHING no debris or anything so a clean injector system?

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Fliter also spotless??

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[davebb]

Hi it may be worth tacking out the fuel pump and have a look at the filter on the fuel pump in the tank to see if it is a restriction also get a cheap £10 low fuel pressure gauge
and connect it up to were you now have new clips an see if the pressure is constant,
Dave

[Tee5alive]

On VIDA the fuel rail is at high pressure according to readings?

Ill take it on a road test to see what happens! If it goes again ill take in limp mode to the nearest crusher!

Thanks dave

[davebb]

Hi The in-tank fuel pump is low pressure ,
Dave

[Tee5alive]

oh DUUUH yes of course, what sort of pressure would you expect to see?

[davebb]

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=202430&page=3
READ THIS
Dave

[davebb]

https://www.picoauto.com/support/topic14411.html
This link is very good and one post shows the tank pump pressure of 3.5bar
but a very good read
Thanks Dave

[davebb]

like I say you can get a cheap low pressure gauge kit from ebay with all adaptors ,
does your low pressure pump run when you turn the key,
Dave

[davebb]

also do a flow test, the pump could be restricting the flow,
PFV do a pump repair kit cheap,
Dave

[Tee5alive]

Thanks Dave I'll check all this out!