Petrified of cracking a liner.... But want to boost the thing (R)!

[jellison]

The more I read about the V70R/S60R engine the more it sounds like and accident just waiting to happen (even in bone stock form)!

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/archive/index.php/t-213638.html

https://passionford.com/forum/ford-focus-st/445728-focus-st-block-mod-info-inc-secret-block-mod.html

http://www.dreamscience-automotive.co.uk/product/products/ford-focus-st225-mk2/focus-st225-mk2-engine/dsci-block-mod.html

http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-57867.html

From discussing this a fair bit now, it seem the 2.5 R blocks open liner design combined with much thinner liner (just for 1-200cc), makes them stupidly fragile. T5 blocks can have big boost thrown at them no problem due to beefy liners).

Now I have found this out, I am not best pleased. I know a lot on here have engines with good power increases, but not sure I really want to do this now (unless I get the block shimmed).

Clearly (for an everyday road car I am not going to be doing this) -> The full Monty! https://re-volvparts.com/store/home/87-re-volv-kaplhenke-racing-blockguard-for-25l-s60r-v70r.html

What are you guys views. I do want to keep this car a long time, but only if it is reliable (could crack a liner as standard is Nuts!). And preferably with a bit more power. My R feels faster low down (2.5k-3k) than my mapped T5 (some of that is the 4wd though) but from 4 and up it is definitely slower (more weight and a tad less ultimate power).

What is the answer? This Tim Williams chap gets talked about well in many places, but finding contact details hard! Then you have the Dreamscience option (looks the same to me but one person on first thread seems to think different) - have dropped them an enquiry as to whether they do on Volvo's.

Based on all this I am not sure I have the confidence in the car to get a remap (as per my old T5). But I'd like more power.........................

[antonys60r]

I told you this when you came over hence why I have fitted a boost gauge and my R is completely standard. It's unlikely to split a liner standard but it's not unheard of. If you get yours reapped make sure she is running perfectly beforehand and do a stage zero service first .

[Gold 'N' Brown]

I know you've had some troubles that you've been working through recently. Have you actually got the car to Stage 0 yet? As in comprehensive servicing to address all possible weaknesses and get the car running 100%. Until you've done that it's a moot point planning any mapping as it'll just quickly cause failures in any weak areas and cause frustration. I spend a lot of time over on UKSAABs and the most common issues are people chasing boost issues because the've skipped quickly to the tuning (which is very very cheap and easy on the SAABs) but not fully addressed all the basics. And to be fair it's not a Volvo or a SAAB thing, it's common to all turbo engines really. Easy to boost, easy to break!

[jellison]

Mailed T5D5 just now to try to talk with Tim.

Has anyone got his tel no.?

As have cambelt kit in the car for local place to do tomorrow (along with rear brakes). Pointless fitting if it has to all come off for this!

[antonys60r]

The best thing is to pm on here as well as t5d5 and just wait for him to reply . He is extremely busy but he will get back to you.

[jellison]

Cheers Anthony / Gold.

Car seems to be 100% now.

Pulls well to 5500 but seem to tail off a bit after that, but think that is normal (how the T5 was pre remap). Car is full FSH and bar Anthony helping diagnose the Fuel pressure sensor and then (again - what a guy) the MAF most likely being gunked up. Post clean it now run how I expected it to. So I was most likely blowing issue out of proportion.

So happy to run like this for a bit, but feel as I want to remap it I am going to have to do this. I absolutely cannot afford in term of cash or car of the road (enough other cars constantly in bits) to have the engine have a major catastrophic issue!

I mailed a Don chap on PH (that claims to have Tim tel no.) and Tim via another forum (T5D5). Just odd he is not even on the web to call or mail. Mind chap doing my V8 at present is the same (at least he is in the phone book though or 118 118)!

Just thinking should I bother changing cam belt tomorrow if I have the head off in next 3-6 months before I have a remap.

You could not make this stuff up, a major manufacturer engineering a fault (potential) into an engine!

I do find it odd that the gap between the liners being shimmed is only at the top 10-12mm, whereas the rest of the liners are presumably touching below this point. the crack are only in this top part then?

I'll get the cambelt done anyway (needs doing), at least if it has the shimming done it will be in the next 3-5k miles (so belt and the two pulleys / idlers are new and can just be put straight back on).

[jellison]

Just had a good chat with Tim.

[jellison]

Up shot seems to be that an R engine is alot more fragile than a T5 (2.3) or the T5 or rare late 2.4 block R's. Even in std form if ragged the liners can crack.

Now I know the block is cast "around" the liners, i.e. an integral part of the block it is not a case of taking one out and replacing a liner if cracked! Like a TR4!!

So as I want to keep my R a long time I think I will be getting this done. Chatted to my mechanic on changing the cam belt and he said pointless doing tomorrow as he would not put it back on a car even if only done a few k miles if having a head gasket change, so don't bother keep it for when Tim has the head off. He'll just do the rear brakes.

What Tim did say was on an R the worst thing uyou can do is put a big bore exhaust on a std R (no issue on a T5 due to the thick liners) as even without a remap the extra bore system will create more boost or something like that anyway and it is the simplest way to wreck and R (liners).

Best shim, then map it then do the exhaust, or the map and the exhaust at the same time once block shimmed then all should be fine.

He did try to imply that I was a CHAV if I liked the IPD noise - the cheek....:shockedbi

Mind maybe I am as I do like the noise!

But first things first book in with Tim for the shims and cam belt, then can at least do pretty much anything to it (in any order and it should at least take it)!

Seems like a top bloke - does like to talk.:cool:

The price is bloody good too (shimming)IMHO.

[stricky1967]

But first things first book in with Tim for the shims and cam belt, then can at least do pretty much anything to it (in any order and it should at least take it)!

Seems like a top bloke - does like to talk.:cool:

The price is bloody good too (shimming)IMHO.

He shimmed mine , top bloke, very conscientious

[antonys60r]

Excellent news. That's the best way to go while is at it Tim will set the cam timing as well. I'm pleased your happy with the way the car is running for now , I'm pleased it turned out to be can easy fix..Now the real fun can begin.

[jellison]

Indeed, will book in over next month or so (he said if I got up there (Leicester way) early 9 and find something to do for the day, should have it all done by 4 - 4:30 to go home) beats two trips and public transport (eek - tried it and didn't like it!).

Then I'll likely get get it mapped at the chap I used before (Mega results) as the tune is going to be the thing the real jump in power comes from, any catback I get will only up the gain there by about a 1/3 of the remaps initial gain.

Then just enjoy it (with piece of mind).

On the exhaust side (now that will likely be post remap), the sort of noise I'm after is a deep sound when driven normally or on a fixed throttle but pretty Nuts when you mash the carpet (ala C63 - both NA and TT version).

[CALICO]

I was sceptical because I thought his price was too cheap for the work needed so decided against buying an R