Performance ES vs GT

[K605ewa]

Hi all Newbie here

We have 3 480's in the family, namely ES, GT and Turbo. My wife's ES goes like " ......" from the word go and has 220k on the clock and the red dipstick. I have the GT and the green dipstick and air con with 150k on the clock. Supposedly, the engines are exactly the same apart from the oil cooling she has under the pistons. My car, GT, seems to be a gear behind hers ES. Once I get to 3000, then it picks up and goes. In a race she can't pull away but I have to push harder. Any ideas? There is a difference in the engines for sure but where? Her fifth gear is very good even from low rpm, mine lags a bit, I have to change down if I want to keep up. I have had the timing checked, ok but the plugs are very light coloured, almost white. I get extremely good fuel consumption. I wonder if I am running lean for some reason! I have used copious Redex and the GT is quickening, as I suspected the injectors may have been clogged up a bit. Have you heard anything like this from anyone else.
Secondly, my Turbo's gauge only get just into the yellow by a quarter to a third, is this normal and what is the running pressure for a normal car supposed to be? Is there anything I should check apart from the boost system leaking to make sure the Turbo is producing it's best performance.

Alastair K605ewa


Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:08 pm

[jamesy12345]

Your GT will be a 2 litre, her ES a 1.7? Same gear ratios AFAIK but about 100 kg difference between them and almost the same power output, that might explain it if so

Nice paris blue turbo there...here's mine:

29837

It would be a good idea to get injectors cleaned on the GT - there's a member on here with username MRP who has cleaned a couple of sets for me

From memory, stock boost for your Turbo is about 2/3's into the yellow....long time ago since mine was stock...

29838

...although that said already one engine is dead due to boost! This thread might be useful in your case:

http://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16224

//edit

forgot to say :welcome:

[K605ewa]

Thanks for your reply Jamesy and for the welcome,

I believe her car is a 2 litre as well as the GT, as we have the docs. The injector thread is a positive way forward, cheers for that.
The turbo had been pottered around for 10 years prior to me buying it, only doing 1200 per year. I expect it was a shopping car!!!!!!. I doubt if the turbo was ever used in anger!!!!!
We took it to Germany last week and gunned it a bit; the improvement in performance was amazing.
What system do you use for boosting the turbo?

[Biff]

Welcome.
Love a 480 myself, never been brave enough to buy one.

[Doingitsideways]

Welcome aboard :)

Good to see some more 480 love on here.

Here's mine:

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n518/doingitsideways/DSC_0059_zpsd49lcm4b.jpg (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/doingitsideways/media/DSC_0059_zpsd49lcm4b.jpg.html)

I had a brief affair with Jamesy's Turbo too, but that's a whole other story! :lol:

As for modding the Turbo, there's a member on 480 Club forums called Robou, he modifies the boost/ignition ecu and ups the boost to about 14psi. That's about half way into the red on the guage.
That ups the power from 120bhp to a safe 170ish, as that's what the original prototypes made and is plenty of fun in a one-tonne car.
He's not on there all that much these days, but you never know!

Edit:
The fella who developed the original mod was called Richard Pruen, he used to mod ecus before Robou.
However, the mod still tends to have the generic handle of "Richmod."
If you speak to Robou, he will take massive offence if you call his mod by that name, he likes to call his "Roboumod."
As far as I can tell they are pretty much the same, but who knows!
Just thought I'd give you the heads up, as Robou is a bit of a touchy fella. Very knowledgeable, but a bit secret handshakey! ;)

[K605ewa]

Thanks for the reply. I am talking to him about the mod. I am relieved to hear that the original made loads of useful power at 14psi. I suppose the bean stealers made them reduce the power output to boring and reliable for Joe public!!!!
Alastair...Love your car.

I know I have had the 'Robou experience' already....hee hee

[K605ewa]

Hi Biff, we now have a trio of 480s...ES, GT and Turbo. Brave enough!!!
Alastair

[Doingitsideways]

I'm not far behind you.

I have the 480 and two 460s, one of which is a turbo.
Also an S70, 850 and S80 T6 - the Volvo with the worst reputation for build quality, right behind the 480!

Mad? Yes. Definitely.

[K605ewa]

What did you think of the 850 overall?

[Doingitsideways]

Which one? I've had several, lol.

The list above is the current fleet. The 850 being a TDi and is my workhorse.

850s:
N/A petrols - torquey, bullet proof engines, not quick, still thirsty despite lack of turbo.
TDi - feel quick enough and with mild work will keep with a standard T5 to illegal speeds. 5cyl Audi engine. Pretty frugal for a big old bus.
T5 - quick, modify it and it'll blow your socks off with it's brutality compared to later T5 engined cars. Still pretty bulletproof. Epic appetite for front tyres even in standard trim.

[jamesy12345]

Thanks for your reply Jamesy and for the welcome,

I believe her car is a 2 litre as well as the GT, as we have the docs. The injector thread is a positive way forward, cheers for that.
The turbo had been pottered around for 10 years prior to me buying it, only doing 1200 per year. I expect it was a shopping car!!!!!!. I doubt if the turbo was ever used in anger!!!!!
We took it to Germany last week and gunned it a bit; the improvement in performance was amazing.
What system do you use for boosting the turbo?


Just noticed this, if they are both B20F engines I would expect the performance to be pretty similar! GT probably heavier still but not by that much. Nothing obviously wrong with the GT like air filter needing changed, collapsed cat??

On my car, Robou had a fiddle with the ECU, the mod that Steve mentions above

[Doingitsideways]

Reading the op back...

You mention piston cooling.
On a B20F?
New one on me, as I thought they didn't have any cooling, one of the reasons you can't turbo the 2 litre.

Does sound like a collapsed cat, especially as it picks up at high revs.
Probably worth doing a stage 0 on it though. Especially the fuel filter and ignition side of things - spark plugs, HTs, dizzy cap, rotor arm, coil. Just ignition problems tend to be exaggerated at lower revs.

Saying all that though, I've found my 160k B20F to be MUCH quicker and free revving than my 55k one.
The high mileage one has a bit of piston slap from cold, but once warm it keeps with a standard turbo easily.

[jamesy12345]

Reading the op back...

You mention piston cooling.
On a B20F?
New one on me, as I thought they didn't have any cooling, one of the reasons you can't turbo the 2 litre.

Does sound like a collapsed cat, especially as it picks up at high revs.
Probably worth doing a stage 0 on it though. Especially the fuel filter and ignition side of things - spark plugs, HTs, dizzy cap, rotor arm, coil. Just ignition problems tend to be exaggerated at lower revs.

Saying all that though, I've found my 160k B20F to be MUCH quicker and free revving than my 55k one.
The high mileage one has a bit of piston slap from cold, but once warm it keeps with a standard turbo easily.

That comment had me fooled also hence assuming it was a 1.7. After a bit of digging I found this thread, saying early 2 litres were also Norris McWhirters (squirters..!)

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/archive/index.php/t-108987.html

[K605ewa]

Will do as you suggested. Ta

[K605ewa]

Yup, and the red dipstick handle as opposed to my green dipstick handle. That led me to think there may be a slight difference in the engines. Having looked at the thread http://www.volvo-480-europe.org/volvo480/specs.php I realise that there is nothing different between any of the B20fs

[jamesy12345]

Yup, and the red dipstick handle as opposed to my green dipstick handle. That led me to think there may be a slight difference in the engines. Having looked at the thread http://www.volvo-480-europe.org/volvo480/specs.php I realise that there is nothing different between any of the B20fs

there are some differences (as you have already pointed out) between the 2 litres but nothing that should make such a big difference! I would be interested to know what the outcome is, and to see more pictures of the fleet - how about a project thread? :)

[Doingitsideways]

Or even join in the craic and add to the now infamous "Thread of Projects." :lol:

[jamesy12345]

Or even join in the craic and add to the now infamous "Thread of Projects." :lol:

Good idea, reminds me I need to update mine. A bit boring this month though for mine :) at least the 480 was fixed

[Doingitsideways]

Good idea, reminds me I need to update mine. A bit boring this month though for mine :) at least the 480 was fixed

Aye, mine too tbh. Not much happened since the last update after York.
Although, I feel the Shark's performance may be back down to before, as I noticed a leaf sticking out of the bonnet shut line yesterday. All that hard work... ;)

Great news about Pollution the 480 though, now all you need is a manual 'box.
Can't think who'd have one of those knocking about.

[jamesy12345]

Aye, mine too tbh. Not much happened since the last update after York.
Although, I feel the Shark's performance may be back down to before, as I noticed a leaf sticking out of the bonnet shut line yesterday. All that hard work... ;)

Great news about Pollution the 480 though, now all you need is a manual 'box.
Can't think who'd have one of those knocking about.

Fecking leaves you'd think they grow on trees

Certainly is matey! I got a manual box donated free gratis by Right Honourable Sir Lord Sparkysparks Esq :D

[Doingitsideways]

Fecking leaves you'd think they grow on trees

Certainly is matey! I got a manual box donated free gratis by Right Honourable Sir Lord Sparkysparks Esq :D

Coulda bloody told me.
I have one sat in the shed, waiting for you!

Only joking :)

You got everything else you need?
Is it a Turbo 'box?

[K605ewa]

Hi
Got another question. If I raise the boost pressure to 10-14 psi on the 480, what plugs do I need? Are the standard plugs good enough, operating under increased pressure?
What do you experts suggest.

[jamesy12345]

Coulda bloody told me.
I have one sat in the shed, waiting for you!

Only joking :)

You got everything else you need?
Is it a Turbo 'box?

:lol: I thought I asked you & it was taken already.....yes mate a turbo box. Just found a flywheel today, from an F4R Clio. 60-2 pattern.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/8vpeyWA3OWOhG/200_s.gif


Hi
Got another question. If I raise the boost pressure to 10-14 psi on the 480, what plugs do I need? Are the standard plugs good enough, operating under increased pressure?
What do you experts suggest.

If you are upping the boost I would go 1 or 2 grades colder. An expert once recommended me an NGK BPR9ES. Or BPR8EIX iridiums ones if you are rich. If the plug fouls quickly then the grade is 'too cold'.

The ignition system has a safety cut out at around 1 bar or just above, so careful you don't bounce off that too much. It will feel like the engine has cut out. Raising just the boost won't get you much though, better to change timing/injection by getting hold of a modified ECU

//edit oh and I close up the gaps of the plugs a little when upping the boost.

[Doingitsideways]

:lol: I thought I asked you & it was taken already....



Nope. Why you no listen? Lol

I said she wants her new one converting to auto, so I'll have a spare 'box etc.
So you've got pedal box, gear lever, linkage, clutch cable, driveshafts, N/S wishbone?

[jamesy12345]

Nope. Why you no listen? Lol

I said she wants her new one converting to auto, so I'll have a spare 'box etc.
So you've got pedal box, gear lever, linkage, clutch cable, driveshafts, N/S wishbone?

Hello fwiend...when u want me at your house for an box swap?? I have some of that gear but not the driveshafts for example. Can pay in injectors!!

[Doingitsideways]

Hello fwiend...when u want me at your house for an box swap?? I have some of that gear but not the driveshafts for example. Can pay in injectors!!

I'm not doing your swap too!!

[K605ewa]

Thanks Jamesy, good info

[Doingitsideways]

By the way, just so you know:

It's pretty much traditional around here to derail threads wherever possible.
Usually myself and Jamesy whenever 400 series are involved :lol:

[jamesy12345]

By the way, just so you know:

It's pretty much traditional around here to derail threads wherever possible.
Usually myself and Jamesy whenever 400 series are involved :lol:

This cat agrees with you

29877

[K605ewa]

Upping the boost with an MBC. Looking at my Wastegate actuator, it has a red tube running to the pressure switch. Is this the line into which to put the MBC.
I am still wanting the proper ECU mod. This is just temporary.......for fun


I need some help in re-coding my original Volvo 480 radio. I have the code but can't for the life of me work out how to enter the numbers. I have used the preset numbers 1-4 but the code has numbers above 4. Also, when you have entered the code, how do you finalise the operation or does it do it automatically?

[jamesy12345]

I can't recommend upping the boost without sorting out the fuelling to match - mine was overboosting & killed the engine. No idea about MBC's, sorry

[Doingitsideways]

^^^^^^^^ What he said. ^^^^^^^^

The fuel/ignition system on these isn't the smartest, although safe if modified properly.

An MBC would spell bad news, as it won't be able to adjust to suit before going pop very quickly.

[K605ewa]

Got Robou's mod in now. The turbo gauge doesn't show any more boost than original, although the power is obviously up???? I have the new dump valve to fit, which might make a difference. On hard acceleration at high revs, I can hear a short sharp hiss, not like a waste gate opening, so might be leakage around the pipes to the actuator (robou's suggestion). It certainly is not delivering full poke but is much better than standard. Pulls from 1000 rpm and his test of 45kph, smooth as silk.

Has anyone got a turbo gauge set to sell, otherwise I will use an Ebay pressure gauge to individually check the turbo gauge reading.

[jamesy12345]

Got Robou's mod in now. The turbo gauge doesn't show any more boost than original, although the power is obviously up???? I have the new dump valve to fit, which might make a difference. On hard acceleration at high revs, I can hear a short sharp hiss, not like a waste gate opening, so might be leakage around the pipes to the actuator (robou's suggestion). It certainly is not delivering full poke but is much better than standard. Pulls from 1000 rpm and his test of 45kph, smooth as silk.

Has anyone got a turbo gauge set to sell, otherwise I will use an Ebay pressure gauge to individually check the turbo gauge reading.

Ebay gauge will do you mate, performance will be better even without extra boost due to fuel & timing changes by Mr Robou

Remember to adjust the resistance setting on the MAF...should be about 530 ohms between pins 2 & 6...with 6 being closest to the adjustment screw..

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u565/jamesy12345/010320131261_zps70b0bf62.jpg

[K605ewa]

Ta.... where does this thingy hide itself?. I was looking at the square unit in the air intake back from the box. The one you are showing seems to be round or is that an illusion!!! Gaud I need to learn fast..........

[Doingitsideways]

It's attatched to the inlet hose, immediately after the airbox, about 4" long with a plug attatched to it.

[jamesy12345]

It's attatched to the inlet hose, immediately after the airbox, about 4" long with a plug attatched to it.

what steve said^^

30040

[K605ewa]

Sorted the MAF resistance to 530 ohms. Had new turbo fitted and they set the actuator to open early for bedding in ( I don't know why) and did full pressure leak checks. I need to know, on my model 92, which way to close the actuator to delay it as I am getting less than standard pressure, or do I have to open it???????. I have the Robou fitted, new Audi dump valve and less than impressed with lack of pressure. Hardly going to 12 o'clock. Thanks

[jamesy12345]

Sorted the MAF resistance to 530 ohms. Had new turbo fitted and they set the actuator to open early for bedding in ( I don't know why) and did full pressure leak checks. I need to know, on my model 92, which way to close the actuator to delay it as I am getting less than standard pressure, or do I have to open it???????. I have the Robou fitted, new Audi dump valve and less than impressed with lack of pressure. Hardly going to 12 o'clock. Thanks

Bit of info...

http://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9467

http://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9472

maybe best to ask the garage who moved it to put it back where it should be

[K605ewa]

Yup, I twigged the b...££££ about the turbo but the company who reconditioned my turbo set the wastegate to open early. I have every confidence that when I have corrected the mistake to "half a hole" or around 5mm not the 1-2 mm movement of the actuator rod they imposed on me, some more power will appear. I unlocked the actuator rod, loosening the 10mm nut, removed the circlip and pulled off the rod from wastegate spigot. I tried to rotate the turnbuckle but could not actually move it. Locking compound or crimping??? Looks like a small dimple in the turnbuckle body.
What I am very interested in is the condition of the regulating valve. If this indeed triggered a fault in my Robou, then it will have to go back and be mended.
Would anyone have a known, proven, regulating valve I can buy from them please. It would be pointless to have the ECU checked to find the regulating valve may blow it again. I will, of course check the resistance as Robou suggested.
The red pipe from the regulating valve goes to a new diaphragm working the actuator rod. The wastegate is new.
The white pipe goes from the turbo area to the regulating valve. Let me know if the set up is erroneous.
This is all proving quite disheartening.

[jamesy12345]

Yup, I twigged the b...££££ about the turbo but the company who reconditioned my turbo set the wastegate to open early. I have every confidence that when I have corrected the mistake to "half a hole" or around 5mm not the 1-2 mm movement of the actuator rod they imposed on me, some more power will appear. I unlocked the actuator rod, loosening the 10mm nut, removed the circlip and pulled off the rod from wastegate spigot. I tried to rotate the turnbuckle but could not actually move it. Locking compound or crimping??? Looks like a small dimple in the turnbuckle body.
What I am very interested in is the condition of the regulating valve. If this indeed triggered a fault in my Robou, then it will have to go back and be mended.
Would anyone have a known, proven, regulating valve I can buy from them please. It would be pointless to have the ECU checked to find the regulating valve may blow it again. I will, of course check the resistance as Robou suggested.
The red pipe from the regulating valve goes to a new diaphragm working the actuator rod. The wastegate is new.
The white pipe goes from the turbo area to the regulating valve. Let me know if the set up is erroneous.
This is all proving quite disheartening.

I replied on the 480 forum but repeated here...

Try using molegrips fella rather than pliers. Here's a schematic of the system

30246

Top hose (black) feeds pressure to the solenoid, middle hose (red) goes to wastegate actuator. Yellow hose not so important. Colour references are to my photo, which may not match yours. If you suspect your boost solenoid it's resistance between pins can be checked...

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u565/jamesy12345/181220121126_zps4f1e201a.jpg

...but if you have no luck I may have one somewhere

[K605ewa]

Well, the ECU is off back to Robou for an MOT....:uglyhamme

[jamesy12345]

Well, the ECU is off back to Robou for an MOT....:uglyhamme

oh right, hope you get to the bottom of it

Is the wastegate rod adjusted correctly now?

[K605ewa]

Ok, here's the way it is. The turbo gauge indicates the exact same position in 1-5 gears using the standard ECU as it does with the Robou mod. This is totally illogical. Robou said there is nothing wrong with his mod. I received it back a few days ago from him after he had checked it out. This means the signal from the standard ECU to the solenoid booster valve is exactly the same as the signal from the modded one. Again totally illogical. In first and second the solenoid booster dumps the power early as it should and then closes, increasing turbo boost, as you go up the gears to 5th. Given that the engine with the mod is a few degrees advanced and the fuel is re-mapped, the increase in acceleration is felt with the modded ECU. My problem is that I know the modded ECU should hold back the wastegate actuator until the gauge reaches the yellow/red zone. Assuming the turbo works as per, which it does, Apart from the solenoid booster valve, is there any other electrical unit which could be interfering with the system. It can't be the dump valve that is new and is probably set at about 1 bar. The engine is only receiving standard boost, so the dump valve shouldn't be the problem.??????????????????????????? I am hoping the solenoid valve is at fault but looking at it logically, on standard ECU the system works ok. If, as he says it does, the modded ECU is ok, then why isn't the Robou holding the booster valve closed.
My biggest problem with all this is that the mod has no effect on the boost at all.
Is there anyone in England who can help me sort this out. I will pay for your expertise and any parts you use. Otherwise this is a white elephant???

[jamesy12345]

Ok, here's the way it is. The turbo gauge indicates the exact same position in 1-5 gears using the standard ECU as it does with the Robou mod. This is totally illogical. Robou said there is nothing wrong with his mod. I received it back a few days ago from him after he had checked it out. This means the signal from the standard ECU to the solenoid booster valve is exactly the same as the signal from the modded one. Again totally illogical. In first and second the solenoid booster dumps the power early as it should and then closes, increasing turbo boost, as you go up the gears to 5th. Given that the engine with the mod is a few degrees advanced and the fuel is re-mapped, the increase in acceleration is felt with the modded ECU. My problem is that I know the modded ECU should hold back the wastegate actuator until the gauge reaches the yellow/red zone. Assuming the turbo works as per, which it does, Apart from the solenoid booster valve, is there any other electrical unit which could be interfering with the system. It can't be the dump valve that is new and is probably set at about 1 bar. The engine is only receiving standard boost, so the dump valve shouldn't be the problem.??????????????????????????? I am hoping the solenoid valve is at fault but looking at it logically, on standard ECU the system works ok. If, as he says it does, the modded ECU is ok, then why isn't the Robou holding the booster valve closed.
My biggest problem with all this is that the mod has no effect on the boost at all.
Is there anyone in England who can help me sort this out. I will pay for your expertise and any parts you use. Otherwise this is a white elephant???

Like I said on the Skype disappointing that this hasn't been resolved. The only things I can think of would be boost leak (including the recirc leaking back to inlet side) or the boost solenoid. Have a good pull at all the hoses & lines or maybe a smoke test will pick any leaks up apart from the recirc. The recirc valve can be checked by trying to blow through the smallest connection on it. As mentioned make sure it is sitting correctly with the locating tab in the correct place.

Is that wastegate actuator adjusted correctly now btw I can't remember if you went back to the place that adjusted it. If there are no leaks and the recirc is OK it might be a case of adjusting the rod until you see the boost gauge get to the end of the yellow. Since the ECU is working correctly as Robou says then fuel & timing should be adjusted for the higher boost. Go careful though...I've got a spare engine if you need one...! Bullet proof way to do it would be to get a more accurate boost gauge and an AFR meter up the exhaust. I think Robou aims for about 13.5 psig so AFR's should be fine up til that point (maybe you could confirm that with him - what is the maximum boost expected with this ECU)

The problem is with these cars that there is not many of them about now & the knowledge just isn't there anymore for modifying. I ran out of time & money on them - it's hard work to modify a car that isn't mint to start with (as is usually the case for me)

[jamesy12345]

bump...believe this was resolved by replacing boost solenoid and/or recirc valve