850 T5 deletes

[Sparkysparks]

Hi guys, whilst im still fixing the Volvo I saw a massive carbon canister. I thought ill remove that, tidy a bit of pipework up, then I thought the ECU might throw a wobbly.
What Deletes are there I can do to this car, what does it actually need.
I would de-cat
Carbon canister
boost solenoid (to simplify)
EGR (if it has one)
Mark

[Sparkysparks]

Oh and simplify the breather system to atmosphere.
Would doing any of this have negative effects on the running of the car?
Thanks
Mark

[t5 pete]

The standard system is very efficient and not a common failing point so better left alone

[Sparkysparks]

Well this car is 20 years old now, and I can already see hoses perishing, my breather recirc has a nice big leak. So much so that its can smoke on cranking.
Id just like to tidy and simplify the pipes and squeeze as much efficiency out of it as possible without compromising the electronic side.

[p fandango]

I binned the carbon canistor years ago & had no issues, if you remove the bcs it'll throw a cell light

[stribo]

There's no EGR to worry about on U.K. spec cars. :D

[Saaamon]

PCV kits cost £100 and that's genuine, plus £10 worth of silicone hose for the boost pipes and job done. Why bodge it would you can do the job properly and know it will actually work afterwards.

There's no good reason to remove the BCS, MBC's make for very jerky power delivery and the use of one could end up wrecking your engine. A new one costs £60-70.

[Sparkysparks]

Thanks guys.
No EGR, that's good.
I will remove the carbon canister then, that frees up some pipework.
PVC I would like to remove to stop spent gasses getting into the turbo. The cleaner the air the better. Also its going to eliminate pipework and connections.
Ive just had a look on google, does it go into an oil swirl pot first?

Theres a lot of pipework with the BCS aswell that id like to make sense of, it seems like it doesn't need it. At the moment, does it give the power gradually. Are you saying that fitting a MBC that boost will just thump in with no gradient?
Mark

[p fandango]

Thanks guys.
No EGR, that's good.
I will remove the carbon canister then, that frees up some pipework.
PVC I would like to remove to stop spent gasses getting into the turbo. The cleaner the air the better. Also its going to eliminate pipework and connections.
Ive just had a look on google, does it go into an oil swirl pot first?

Theres a lot of pipework with the BCS aswell that id like to make sense of, it seems like it doesn't need it. At the moment, does it give the power gradually. Are you saying that fitting a MBC that boost will just thump in with no gradient?
Mark
The wiring for the pcv valve is purely for the heating element so can be binned without putting a light on. I've removed the pcv tank as well & have everything breathing to a catch tank, which then goes to atmosphere

As for the mbc, I love them & how aggressive they are. You can use an electric boost controller which would replace most of the pipe work, but as said if you remove the bcs altogether you'll get a warning light on (best unplumb it, but leave it wiring in)

[Saaamon]

There's always going to be different opinions on this, personally I believe MBC's are bad news, what you get is uncontrolled boost and you loose a safety system that is designed to protect the engine.

[Sparkysparks]

Ok, ill block the drain hole into the block, and vent the rocker cover and block breathers to atmosphere under the car then block the holes in the intake hose.

Ill leave the boost controller plugged in but capped and use a MBC for full power. This will take a lot of pipework out and leve me with 2 small pipes.
hat about a decat. I havnt been under the car yet, but I assume being Volvo it will have more than 1 o2 sensor, can I just put them in the decat pipework?

[Sparkysparks]

"There's always going to be different opinions on this, personally I believe MBC's are bad news, what you get is uncontrolled boost and you loose a safety system that is designed to protect the engine."

If its locked off at a nice level though it should be fine. You would lose a safety system, but that solenoid looks like it'll just restrict at a certain level.

[oblark]

Ok, ill block the drain hole into the block, and vent the rocker cover and block breathers to atmosphere under the car then block the holes in the intake hose.

Ill leave the boost controller plugged in but capped and use a MBC for full power. This will take a lot of pipework out and leve me with 2 small pipes.
hat about a decat. I havnt been under the car yet, but I assume being Volvo it will have more than 1 o2 sensor, can I just put them in the decat pipework?

I would plumb the block and head breather pipes in to a catch tank otherwise you will be forever cleaning oil off of the engine. Also venting crankcase vapour to atmosphere is a MOT failure.

Just to remind you what mbc stands for

M - may
B - bend
C - conrods

If you want to make good boost get it mapped !!!!!

850's only have 1 O2 sensor and it is before the cat so running a decat doesn't coz a problem just at MOT times as without a cat it's a MOT failure.

[Sparkysparks]

Haha, I keep seeing posts about bending conrods. Im starting to worry now.

Cat will be on for the MOT, as will the PVC system. I didn't realise it was an MOT failure. Ive done that to all my cars and never had issues at MOT time.
I will be routing pipework for them down under the car though.
Its got a Rica tune, I know its not a full remap but im unsure of the boost implications of it, whether it makes better use of the fuelling at the same boost or whether it upps the boost aswell.

[p fandango]

Haha, I keep seeing posts about bending conrods. Im starting to worry now.
I ran one for years with no issues, as long as your sensible you'll be fine. You will have to be careful using one with a rica as the map will have removed the maf/boost limit

[Sparkysparks]

Sensible with boost. Haha. So realistically how much boost is a safe limit with the mods that I have? Is 1.5 bar achievable?

[ExternalError]

its not a question of how much boost but when its delivered thats why your better off with a map

[stribo]

The first thing to do would be fit a proper boost guage that actually tells you how much boost you're making, makes it easier to monitor it.

[Jamest5r]

This is going to end in tears :)

[Sparkysparks]

Ofcourse. I wont do anything till I have a boost gauge.
The thing is. Its a turbo car. I want full power when boost hits otherwise I dont see the point.
I understand it can break things. I'll have to do these things gradually

[martin_r_smith]

This is going to end in tears :)

Couldn't agree more

[Jamest5r]

Ofcourse. I wont do anything till I have a boost gauge.
The thing is. Its a turbo car. I want full power when boost hits otherwise I dont see the point.
I understand it can break things. I'll have to do these things gradually

Full boost on an.mbc when you want it will only result it bend rods simples, you only want full boost when the engine needs full boost no point otherwise, yes you can have a car that spins it's wheels and makes you look like a chav but it won't be a quick car,

[p fandango]

yes you can have a car that spins it's wheels and makes you look like a chav but it won't be a quick car,
i got a 14.557 with a MBC (& a decat), thats faster than alot of mapped cars

[ExternalError]

Theres some good people on here that can give you good advice what you need to understand is turning the boost up is only one side of the equation to getting the most out of the engine you also have to fueling, traction and durability also turning the boost up increases IAT's meaning that the air your blowing in has less oxygen in as hot air contains less oxygen so unless you fit a bigger intercooler and posiibly meth injection turning the boost all the way up wont net you any extra gains

[Jamest5r]

i got a 14.557 with a MBC (& a decat), thats faster than alot of mapped cars

Well it's faster than Claymore :)

My point was if you don't know turbo car's which I gather the op doesn't by his own admissions, is that if he stuck an mbc on we both know what the results would be.

[Sparkysparks]

Yes. What I'm trying to understand is at what level of boost I can go with a seemingly standard intercooler, Standard Injectors, rica tune, 16t turbo, big exhaust and a smooth simplified pipe setup.
My main goal is to have access to alot of power. Not to spin my wheels up and do burnouts. To me this can be a raw simple engine, in a big body, but I know there are parts of cars that can be removed and aren't needed.

[Sparkysparks]

Edit. Double post

[Sparkysparks]

I am fully aware of how turbo cars work. I'm just new to t5 engines. I've not got the knowledge base of what's achievable yet.

[oblark]

15 psi (1 bar)

[Jamest5r]

Yes. What I'm trying to understand is at what level of boost I can go with a seemingly standard intercooler, Standard Injectors, rica tune, 16t turbo, big exhaust and a smooth simplified pipe setup.
My main goal is to have access to alot of power. Not to spin my wheels up and do burnouts. To me this can be a raw simple engine, in a big body, but I know there are parts of cars that can be removed and aren't needed.

In a nutshell an mbc will bend your rods if you floor it under 3 to 3.5k, with the rica alone you can floor it at anytime and your safe, you can run 1.3 bar ish and not run too lean as the rica is a fairly rich/safe map. The t5 engine as it is is a simple thing to work on there is no need to remove anything as it's not going to help your cause.

[ExternalError]

I think you will need bigger injectors if you wish to turn the boost up probably volvo greens or vxr blues but there is bound to be some one far more knowledgeable than me pop along soon.

My S60 is running at around 18-19psi but mines far from standard and is around 370ish bhp it was dynod at 342bhp before fitting the inter cooler and decat downpipe, I'm at the very top end of the k24 turbo in terms of airflow as my head has been ported I get the same amount of airflow at less psi than a standard head but I also keep my IAT's low by having a bigger inter-cooler and meth injection.

I've also maxed out my vxr injectors at 85%IDC now so the next phase is fit a GT28 turbo and bigger injectors.

But the one thing I took away from more experienced people on this forum was to not focus on power mods 1st, I'd recommend stiffening up the suspension and bushings which allow you to get the most out of the standard car and will put you in a better place once you start to increase the power.

[Saaamon]

But the one thing I took away from more experienced people on this forum was to not focus on power mods 1st, I'd recommend stiffening up the suspension and bushings which allow you to get the most out of the standard car and will put you in a better place once you start to increase the power.

This!

You'll have a far, far superior car if you concentrate on handling upgrades first. 850's drive really well with the right mods and fresh bushes and joints etc.

[Sparkysparks]

ExternalError are you on standard internals?
I fully intend to stiffen the car aswell. Solid bushes where possible.
Jamest5r I'm happy with that info. But people drag these cars. Full boost and torque from the off. The rods must be capable. I say that and know people will give me stories of bending them. Was there just a poor batch of rods or something.

[t5 pete]

As I said in my first post there is absolutely no point in removing parts of the system if you want a quick car Here's a tried and tested method.
First get the car running 100% also called stage zero

Inspect the suspension bushes most if not all will be buggered.

Handling good shocks and springs or decent coil overs

Braking system
Good quality pads Gen discs you can upgrade to fit 302 discs with brackets.

Good tyres not your special wanglee

Now tuning
For 300+
18t or 19t are the easiest way
Angled exhaust housing ,down pipe and exhaust system.
Green Injectors or vxr
Standard intercooler should be able to cope but if a alloy one comes up cheap get it bought.

Then a good custom map if your on standard rods.

Finally you will find your open diff doesn't cope well with traction so either m59 which is cheapish but also not great or Quaife and gripper which are the best singled you can do.

[t5 pete]

ExternalError are you on standard internals?
I fully intend to stiffen the car aswell. Solid bushes where possible.
Jamest5r I'm happy with that info. But people drag these cars. Full boost and torque from the off. The rods must be capable. I say that and know people will give me stories of bending them. Was there just a poor batch of rods or something.

Yes alot of us drag them and 99% of us have all bent rods or all ready fitted forged internals bar Dean but his runs on magic

[WOODY T5]

I am sure one day it might bend a rod pete but I thinks mine is just down to I don't know but it works 1.3 and 1.55 some days full boost 1500 rpm to 7500 rpm but I get wot jim and other say about mbc's ran one on mine but never over a bar tho but it go to show these volvo's can be tuned on a budget

[ExternalError]

ExternalError are you on standard internals?
I fully intend to stiffen the car aswell. Solid bushes where possible.
Jamest5r I'm happy with that info. But people drag these cars. Full boost and torque from the off. The rods must be capable. I say that and know people will give me stories of bending them. Was there just a poor batch of rods or something.

Yes im on standard internals but its a p2 facelift S60 2.4 T5 so has a faster canbus meaning boost can be controlled more accurately via the TCV than on a 850, My engine is also shimmed to prevent the liners from splitting which is a known issue on some 2.4 and 2.5 litre engines in the T5 and R of this revision. The map I have controls the boost smoothly so i hit my full powerband between 2.5k-7k revs which is where you want it also ive not confirmed but have been told the rods in the 2005+ models are stronger but I wouldn't go on hearsay. For tips on 850's running high figures look at claymore, jamest5r,oblark or woody they all have far superiour knowledge than me about the 850s.

If I was you id do a stage 0 replace all bushes fit good quality sports springs or coilovers and then go see either shem or tim

[p fandango]

Yes alot of us drag them and 99% of us have all bent rods or all ready fitted forged internals
i used to run 20.8psi all the way from idle & my original rods are still straight

[stribo]

Yes im on standard internals but its a p2 facelift S60 2.4 T5 so has a faster canbus meaning boost can be controlled more accurately via the TCV than on a 850, My engine is also shimmed to prevent the liners from splitting which is a known issue on some 2.4 and 2.5 litre engines in the T5 and R of this revision. The map I have controls the boost smoothly so i hit my full powerband between 2.5k-7k revs which is where you want it also ive not confirmed but have been told the rods in the 2005+ models are stronger but I wouldn't go on hearsay. For tips on 850's running high figures look at claymore, jamest5r,oblark or woody they all have far superiour knowledge than me about the 850s.

If I was you id do a stage 0 replace all bushes fit good quality sports springs or coilovers and then go see either shem or tim

THe rods in a facelift S60 T5 are a lot stronger than the rods in a 850 T5. ;)

[Jamest5r]

ExternalError are you on standard internals?
I fully intend to stiffen the car aswell. Solid bushes where possible.
Jamest5r I'm happy with that info. But people drag these cars. Full boost and torque from the off. The rods must be capable. I say that and know people will give me stories of bending them. Was there just a poor batch of rods or something.

Yep I've always dragged my car's and yes flooring it off the line and through the gears is fine but as I said your revs will always be over 3k so you'll be fine, I've never bent rods just smashed 2 gearbox's and a driveshaft :)

[Sparkysparks]

Ok some great info here, thanks guys. Ill take it all on board. Realistically if my car performs well and I'm happy with the power its at I wont do anything to up it and leave the boost controller in place. Ill put a boost gauge in and see where its at right now. I will keep my project thread updated with the goings on.
Mark

[Jamest5r]

Get it up and running right then bring it upto York raceway in September it's a.good laugh with beers and food the night before and racing the next day :)

[Sparkysparks]

Ok, ive got to concentrate on getting it to start consistently before much else. York raceway sounds good.