Very basic oil change related questions

[Gold 'N' Brown]

Almost feel embarrassed to be asking such newbie-esque questions, but hey ho!

So, is there any benefit to using an OE Volvo oil filter (Ph2 V70, so cartridge style) over anything available from the likes of ECP etc? Like say a Mann filter? Not so much bothered about cost, it's more, can I be arsed to go to my Volvo dealer when ECP is easier?

No.2 - I was thinking of running a cheap semi-synth through for a few miles (and I literally mean a few miles) just to help flush the engine (obviously after dropping the old oil). PFV have this GM oil on offer, but it says only suitable for engines up to 1999 http://www.partsforvolvosonline.com/product_info.php?products_id=6632. Would that really matter on a 2001 T5 for just a few miles, to be used a s a flush? Just wondering if could have any negative effect of seals etc.

No.3 - After seeing Claymore post about his use of Seafoam recently, and having considered it way back, I'm thinking of giving it a go. My engine is just under 100k, but I've neglected the oil change (prob coming up to 8k), and I've got blocked PCV symptoms. I figure it would be good if I could loosen up any deposits, and maybe help loosen sludge in the PCV before I try and clean the system in the next few months (I know Lee will advise that I should replace the whole system at over £100 but I'd rather try and clean what I can and only replace what bits are beyond saving). But I'm also worried that in loosening deposits I end up with something clogging the oil pick up, a oil gallery or the supply to the turbo. This is probably a controversial one, but wondered what others think about using Seafoam as a flushing aid. I also expect a lot of people will say there's no need to flush at all so long as good quality oil is used and changed regularly, which is a valid point.

[LeeT5]

Almost feel embarrassed to be asking such newbie-esque questions, but hey ho!

So, is there any benefit to using an OE Volvo oil filter (Ph2 V70, so cartridge style) over anything available from the likes of ECP etc? Like say a Mann filter? Not so much bothered about cost, it's more, can I be arsed to go to my Volvo dealer when ECP is easier?

I learn't my lesson about filters years ago, when I had a 440Turbo. I couldn't understand why, after I changed the oil and filter, would the engine's tappet's 'tap' for about 2-3 seconds longer on cold start up than before the oil change? Then someone asked me, Did I use a genuine filter? No, I said....I used a pattern art from some motor factors. So I dropped the oil and replaced the pattern filter with an OE filter and sure enough, the engine tapping virtually disappeared on cold start! Why? The genuine filter had a 'one way valve' in it that prevented the oil from escaping when switched off, meaning, when you start the car from cold the oil pump doesn't have to fill the oil filter before moving round the tiny oil galleries etc in the head. Result was a much quieter, smoother running engine.

Now I know a filter insert does not have a valve, but I would question the quality of the material used in a pattern part. I know MANN filters may be the same, however, if you can't be arsed to go the extra mile to get genuine service items that don't cost that much at all, then perhaps you should not be arsed to service the car?

A genuine filter insert retails for a lowly £8.10 and comes with a quality rubber 'O' ring that I trust will not split or break.
You'll also need a new alloy sealing ring for the sump...retail £1.35.

No.2 - I was thinking of running a cheap semi-synth through for a few miles (and I literally mean a few miles) just to help flush the engine (obviously after dropping the old oil). PFV have this GM oil on offer, but it says only suitable for engines up to 1999 http://www.partsforvolvosonline.com/product_info.php?products_id=6632. Would that really matter on a 2001 T5 for just a few miles, to be used a s a flush? Just wondering if could have any negative effect of seals etc.

How are you going to flush out your old oil with a cheap 10W40 Semi- synthetic? When you drop that oil after a few miles, you won't get oil of it out! You can never get ALL the oil out because it sits in places that don't drain. Therefore, when you refill with the correct grade of oil, ie 5W30 Fully synthetic, you'll have a % of mixed oils in your engine of two different grades! That's hardly flushing the engine out IMH. Also, putting new oil in and draining won't removed the glazed deposits and gummed up carbon from your engine. AFAIK, you will achieve nothing.

No.3 - After seeing Claymore post about his use of Seafoam recently, and having considered it way back, I'm thinking of giving it a go. My engine is just under 100k, but I've neglected the oil change (prob coming up to 8k), and I've got blocked PCV symptoms. I figure it would be good if I could loosen up any deposits, and maybe help loosen sludge in the PCV before I try and clean the system in the next few months (I know Lee will advise that I should replace the whole system at over £100 but I'd rather try and clean what I can and only replace what bits are beyond saving). But I'm also worried that in loosening deposits I end up with something clogging the oil pick up, a oil gallery or the supply to the turbo. This is probably a controversial one, but wondered what others think about using Seafoam as a flushing aid. I also expect a lot of people will say there's no need to flush at all so long as good quality oil is used and changed regularly, which is a valid point.

I've heard good things and bad things about using seafoam. Some reports of Seafoam use have literally destroyed engines or caused irreversible damage.
If you have neglected your service intervals and let the oil go longer than it's designed for, then you will no doubt have some glazing and gummed up parts of the engine. For years now I've always used Wynns Engine flush. Pour in a warmed up engine, allow engine to high tick over for 10 - 15 minutes and then drop the oil. Works everytime. The oil will always come out blacker than normal because most of the gummed up sticky carbon that you can't see, has been dissolved and is flushed away in the oil. I used it on ALL my cars including my P1R and I also used it when I bought my P2R. You only really have to use it now and again, not every service. Every third service is OK.

Regards your PCV, using seafoam or engine flush won't unblock the PCV. If your car's done 100k then your PCV pipe will be totally blocked and rock solid. You won't be able to clean it out as the moment you touch it or move the pipe it will break. The plastic PTFE pipe becomes very brittle over time. You may choose to try and unblock the PCT nipple and the banjo union on the manifold but seriously, you'll be wasting your time. When I removed my PCV pipework after 138k the nipple was only 50% blocked as was the banjo union. The work involved in getting to those parts alone, you may as well remove the manifold and do the breather box and heat exchange pipe!




When you say you've neglected the oil change, coming up to 8k, do you mean it's 8k over or that you've done 8k between servicing? Only, 8k will still be within the service interval. My R is every 12500 miles but I always drop the oil every year. I only do about 5-6k a year.

[Gold 'N' Brown]

Thanks Lee


Now I know a filter insert does not have a valve, but I would question the quality of the material used in a pattern part. I know MANN filters may be the same, however, if you can't be arsed to go the extra mile to get genuine service items that don't cost that much at all, then perhaps you should not be arsed to service the car?

A genuine filter insert retails for a lowly £8.10 and comes with a quality rubber 'O' ring that I trust will not split or break.
You'll also need a new alloy sealing ring for the sump...retail £1.35.

Yep, I'm aware of non-return valves in some filters (which is why I only use OE Pug filters in my 205 GTI), and the fact that the Volvo filter comes with a rubber ring, and that I need an alloy sump plug ring. Trying to be as diplomatic as possible here......your comment in red was both unnecessary and illogical! The whole point of that question was - in terms of this engine, are pattern filters equal in quality and pose no risk, or are Volvo filters generally recommended? Logically, why would I go further at additional time and cost, or pay more for a part if the general consensus is that there's no marked difference in quality or no benefit to be had? To compare that to some notion that there's no point bothering to service the car at all is just, frankly, ££££££££ (let the diplomacy slip there)! Furthermore, you know as well as anyone that some of the manufacturers make the "OE" parts that dealers supply, and they are just branded differently, so you could have easily just said "Oh yeah, get xyz brand from a factor as that what Volvo use anyway" if that had been applicable here, or "Don't buy a pattern filter, they are inferior quality in this application". Simple.

As for the engine flush, apologies, I obviously didn't explain my intentions clearly. I'm not expecting the use of a semi-synth oil to "flush" my engine. I'm intending to use it as an aid to flushing, If I use Seafoam or Wynns etc. So, add the product, run the engine up to temp, drop the oil, replace with cheap temporary oil, run it around the block or whatever, drop the oil again, replace with fully synth. The idea being that the cheap oil removes some of the left over (loose) deposits that didn't make their way out upon the first drain. I'm sure you must have heard of people doing this before...............no? Good point about the 5W30 fully synth being mixed with the semi synth, that was the kind of obvious pointer I was looking for when asking the question. Mind you, I wonder how many people on this very forum have changed grades or types of oil many times over their car's lifetime and ended up with small % variations as a result.

And finally, the PCV. Agreed, if the PCV is totally clogged with hard deposits, there's nothing to gain from the Seafoam, and I'll end up having to replace parts. If (and it might be a big "if") it's not totally hard clogged, there's a chance the seafoam might loosen things up and make cleaning the system easier......maybe. Either way, it's my choice, and I will be doing so, to inspect the PCV and rescue what I can (didn't Martin just clean his out and not have to replace anything, finally tracing the problem to the blocked banjo?). I'd love to be in your shoes and be able to just throw a bunch of money at it with all new Volvo parts, but that's not going to happen. Even if I had the money, it is at the end of the day an almost worthless 2000/2001 T5 in a ££££ colour combo, so right now it's about getting the right economic balance between maintaining it to a standard that keeps it alive for another few years, Vs maintaining it to a cost no object standard. On that basis, maybe "wasting" money on Seafoam etc is a pointless exercise, but it kind of "feels" like the right thing to do.

By the way, the 8k was since the last oil change. But it's about a year a and a half old and I do really short journeys.

[LeeT5]

The PCV heat exchange pipe stretches from the Alternator side of the intake manifold all the way round the the PCT nipple on the MAF to Turbo intake hose. There is no way in the world seafoam or any other product like that is going to break down and dissolve years of solidified oil/Carbon inside a PTFE tube with only a 3mm ID. Yes you might clear the Banjo union and you can manually clean out the PCT nipple but ultimately, trying to clean out the heat exchange pipe is fruitless.

[Gold 'N' Brown]

You are assuming thay pipe WILL be blocked. It isn't the problem for everybody. I have done some homework, read about it, I'm familiar with the parts etc, and as I said not everybody has a problem with that pipe.

I guess we'll see what we see in due course.

[jamesy12345]

1) I don't mind using non-OEM parts, providing you are confident that they are equal or better quality than dealer stuff. When I'm not sure then I get the stuff from the dealer.

2) Providing the oil is the to the correct specs then I would use it on my car no probs. I've used mineral oil in 80's turbo cars.....that's what the manufacturers recommended at the time!

3) Pipe blocked/not blocked...is it possible to check? I think it's more likely the pipe is brittle by now if it's anything like the P80 set up. Changing a PCV is expensive but something you will probably need to do once while you own the car. No idea about this Seafoam stuff.

[Gold 'N' Brown]

Yeah, it's possible to check the PCV.....when it's all dismantled. Then, if the pipe falls apart as Lee suggested I'll order a new one. I don't use the car during the week so it's no drama if it's out of action for a few days awaiting parts. In a perfect world I'd just buy the full complement of replacement parts (especially if I could get the whole lot for ~£60 as JamesT5 reckons :hidesbehi) and do the job in a oner. Another tick in the box. But there's bigger priorities to consider, so compromises have to be made. Hell, I could just leave it altogether!! (Edit: that was a tongue in cheek comment!)

[LeeT5]

Yeah, it's possible to check the PCV.....when it's all dismantled. Then, if the pipe falls apart as Lee suggested I'll order a new one. I don't use the car during the week so it's no drama if it's out of action for a few days awaiting parts. In a perfect world I'd just buy the full complement of replacement parts (especially if I could get the whole lot for ~£60 as JamesT5 reckons :hidesbehi) and do the job in a oner. Another tick in the box. But there's bigger priorities to consider, so compromises have to be made. Hell, I could just leave it altogether!! (Edit: that was a tongue in cheek comment!)

TBH mate, you'll struggle to get the manifold off without the pipe breaking. I've done three PCV systems now on my old 850 T5, P1 and my P2 and both snapped when I was trying so hard to remove the manifold without them breaking. The 850 was easier.

[Gold 'N' Brown]

Ok. That's useful to know.

So, I've reconsidered and decided not to do any sort of flush. No Wynns, no Seafoam. I don't want to risk causing or unmasking other problems by stripping caked in crud. I'll just give it more regular oil changes over the next year.

[LeeT5]

Can I ask, is your PCV actually blocked? Do you get white oil vapour chuffing out the dipstick tube when the dipstick is removed 3" and with a hot engine?

If so, your PCV is blocked which may include the PCT nipple, hollow screws and of course the heat exchange pipe.
If you don't replace the PCV then you will force oil out of places it shouldn't be forced...ie rear main seal!

It's part of Volvo service routine every 90k (IIRC) to replace on a P2.

Just a thought.

[klunk]

As for oil filters Mann and Hengst are top quality in my experience.