Major Setback

[RichT4]

So, after delving into the 'non starting' issue i have with the 2.3 T5 engine i think i have found the issue.
I checked the compression (hoping that it would be good).
P1 - 50psi
P2 - 50psi
P3 - 0psi
P4 - 62psi
P5 - 0psi

A little pissed off would be how i'd describe my mood right now, the last thing i want to do is rip apart the engine again after putting it back together to try and sort it out.
Can people possibly suggest the cause of this issue, I don't want to be right in suggesting Piston rings right now but how about torquing the head down? if this isn't done 100% right can this cause compression issues?

It's not really the amount i've spent in trying to fix this car that's annoyed me, its putting my trust in somebody saying the engines good when potentially it isn't?
Also the amount of man hours i have put in trying to sort this out.
Please give me good hope!!

[Ettienne]

Got to be valves, unless the ring are well past there best.

Even with tired rings you'd get some compression.

Have you had it apart?

[RichT4]

Got to be valves, unless the ring are well past there best.

Even with tired rings you'd get some compression.

Have you had it apart?

I put it together... lol
Didn't take out the valves because i was relying on the original supplier as being sound. he said the valves were straight.
What could be the exact issue with the valves be?

[Ettienne]

Burnt out, not seating properly, bent?

[claymore]

valves stuck open?, do we know the history of the head?

[Ettienne]

I don't see why they would all be gone though.

[RichT4]

valves stuck open?, do we know the history of the head?

I've been assured whole heartedly that the valves are all good and the head came out of a working engine with no problems.
The only thing i've just learned is that having a battery that's almost dead (regardless of whether it's hooked up to a running car) could mean the engine isn't cranking at full power?

[Ettienne]

I've been assured whole heartedly that the valves are all good and the head came out of a working engine with no problems.
The only thing i've just learned is that having a battery that's almost dead (regardless of whether it's hooked up to a running car) could mean the engine isn't cranking at full power?

You wouldn't have two dead cylinders, did you have the throttle fully open?

[dant5r]

I'd be worried about ALL the readings.

A cold engine should at starter motor speed produce a minimum of 100psi

[RichT4]

You wouldn't have two dead cylinders, did you have the throttle fully open?

Yes i did

[claymore]

throttle open, good battery and oil down the plug holes.

[RichT4]

I tried the oil down P1 after i got all the readings and it read 0psi

[RichT4]

Something else was mentioned about timing, if it's out of time will that cause lack of pressure?

[dant5r]

Have you timed/set up the vvt pulleys correct ?

They can be tricky to time/set up

[RichT4]

Have you timed/set up the vvt pulleys correct ?

They can be tricky to time/set up
i might have to recheck the timing and hope that it's this causing the low compression

[Doingitsideways]

Did you crank the engine by hand first?
Any resistance?

If the timing was far enough out it would mean the pistons and valves would contact and even the starter could have enough power to bend the valves.

You are giving it a good crank aren't you?
If you only turn the engine half a turn, it won't make any pressure at all on the exhaust stroke.

Daft ideas, but you never know.

[RichT4]

Did you crank the engine by hand first?
Any resistance?

If the timing was far enough out it would mean the pistons and valves would contact and even the starter could have enough power to bend the valves.

You are giving it a good crank aren't you?
If you only turn the engine half a turn, it won't make any pressure at all on the exhaust stroke.

Daft ideas, but you never know.

When turning it by hand it turned perfectly, it even turns over great via the starter motor.
You have your standard pressure resistance, but that's it. None that i would class as bending valves.

[t5 pete]

Don't know if it's been suggested above but have you put a tea spoon of oil down as that will eliminate ring but personally with all being down I'm sure it's a head problem has the head had any porting are the valves seating correctly are you doing the compression test correctly turn it over for roughly 3 seconds is your gauge working fine

[t5 pete]

Don't know if it's been suggested above but have you put a tea spoon of oil down as that will eliminate ring but personally with all being down I'm sure it's a head problem has the head had any porting are the valves seating correctly are you doing the compression test correctly turn it over for roughly 3 seconds is your gauge working fine

[RichT4]

Thank you for all the above posts, will look into all options here. :)

[JUDGENINJA]

Bugger, bad times.... take a step back and regroup.

Unfortunately I'm thinking valves due to the extemely poor compression. But do double check your timing just in case.

Ive seen snapped piston rings being replaced in a V8 once (don't ask, it was a hicksville repairshop). This achieved perfect compression, until it ate itself a few months later costing the owner even more money.

[RichT4]

Mmmm, cylinder head has been mentioned a few times now. I shall definitely explore all angles here. :)

[Doingitsideways]

Can't help but wonder - if you had a couple of burnt valve seats, surely you'd get some compression, even if only a little.

I'm thinking timing, maybe a jammed lifter or something, or stuck valves.

Even with say a broken piston ring, you'd still see a tiny bit with only the oil rings.

Did you buy and fit a whole built up head, or did you build it up yourself with new/used parts?

[RichT4]

fit a built up head, one that was assured to me as being fine

[Doingitsideways]

If it's been sat for a while, especially in a damp shed or something, something could well have siezed.

Did it look to be in good order? Clean etc?

[RichT4]

All was cleaned prior to reinstallation. the engine turned over by hand before the head was put on and seemed to have enough pressure.

[dant5r]

Any news on what was causing the low compression ?

[RichT4]

I done the wet test and confirmed the compression rose, so i am under the impression that the rings are buggered.
I am extremely tempted to just buy another engine that runs, pop it in so the car is mobile and rebuild this one over time.

[t5 pete]

That's the best bet mixing and matching doesn't always work unless your claymore then he makes it work

[RichT4]

That's the best bet mixing and matching doesn't always work unless your claymore then he makes it work

lol yeah i guess so, so now i'm trying to track down an engine that runs, preferably one that i can get at a reasonable price haha.

[Reverend]

Can you confirm/reconfirm that the cams are properly in place? WIth VVT there's apparently a certain procedure to get them right.

I mean, even a complete ££££e engine will have more compression in several cylinders than this one. One or two being dead, I get that. ALL of them being incredibly low would have me guessing cam timing.

I'm a big fan of trying/checking the easy stuff first. If you poured some oil in the cylinders and the PSI didn't increase (much), that still makes me think valves-due-to-cams. Did you look at the valves/head? You should have noticed if they looked incredibly dirty and crusty to where the valves wouldn't seal against the head.

Maybe this will help a little?
http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/topic/159754-how-to-replacing-1999-vvt-engine-cam-seals-and-setting-timing/

[RichT4]

Thank you, i have bookmarked that website for when i come round to rebuilding the engine :)
For now, i have already popped another engine in and its on the road.

[MaxTS]

When you do the compression test and particularly with the cylinders with no compression if you can feel air out of the dip stick and filler cap then it would indicate rings.
If there is air coming from the header, it would be a head gasket issue and valves would be inlet or exhaust obviously depending on which valve could be open and also depending on the position of the cycle so for example if you get air coming out the inlet side, spin the engine 180 degrees and if the air is still coming out, bingo it's the valve.

Hope this helps :)

[LeeT5]

When you do the compression test and particularly with the cylinders with no compression if you can feel air out of the dip stick and filler cap then it would indicate rings.
If there is air coming from the header, it would be a head gasket issue and valves would be inlet or exhaust obviously depending on which valve could be open and also depending on the position of the cycle so for example if you get air coming out the inlet side, spin the engine 180 degrees and if the air is still coming out, bingo it's the valve.

Hope this helps :)

Too late mate....


Thank you, i have bookmarked that website for when i come round to rebuilding the engine :)
For now, i have already popped another engine in and its on the road.

[Reverend]

For now, i have already popped another engine in and its on the road.

Yikes! You make it sound like "I just changed the oil and went on my merry way". I think I would have sold the car and bought another. :D

[T5frankie]

btw if you used a cheapo compression tester it will give you the wrong readings as it did to me with one (read around 50psi too)

[Ettienne]

I've got a mac one here you can use, not a cheapo one it reads spot on.

[JamesT5]

You could always break the car for spares and spend the money on another car....... (now, where have I heard this advice from before??????) :mischievo

[claymore]

You could always break the car for spares and spend the money on another car....... (now, where have I heard this advice from before??????) :mischievo
Generally, that advice is only given to you

[JamesT5]

Generally, that advice is only given to you

Nice of you to finally admit that I get 'singled out'....

[martin_r_smith]

I generally keep out of this but, James please don't ruin another thread for everyone.

[MoleT-5R]

I generally keep out of this but, James please don't ruin another thread for everyone.

Exactly Martin, If james had read the thread properly he would know that the cars is running with a different engine in it, so why he needs to posts such a stupid comment that nothing to do with what this interesting thread is all about .

I'm on it being cam related, timing would be my first thought, but I have had an engine snap a cam, that confused me for a while as the cam wheels where still turning but not the whole of the cam though

[AAnickmac]

i have not taken one of these apart but do they have hydraulic valve lifters? i remember years ago on a vauxhall i hadnt sqeezed the old oil out of them and they were holding the valves slightly open causing very low compression. just a thought. but as i say, i havent taken one of these apart.

[LeeT5]

i have not taken one of these apart but do they have hydraulic valve lifters? i remember years ago on a vauxhall i hadnt sqeezed the old oil out of them and they were holding the valves slightly open causing very low compression. just a thought. but as i say, i havent taken one of these apart.

This is very true! Early 850 5 pots used to suffer with this problem and it happened to me once, years ago, when I owned a 1993 850 2.0 20v. Took ages cranking it over and there was no compression. Engine span over faster than normal and removing the fuel pump fuse to overcome the possibility of it being flooded, made no difference. It wasn't flooded though, because the day before I'd driven 240 miles back from Wales....went to start it the next day and no compression.

It eventually started and ran lumpy as hell for a while.

I remember doing a oil service shortly after which included a can of 'oil flush' being put in the oil and ran for 15 minutes before dropping the oil to dissolve any gum that may have cause the lifters to stick.
I never experienced the problem again!

AFAIK, Volvo addressed the issue with post 1995 models?