Anti-roll bar bushes

[massivewangers]

Got some knocking at the front end, and got an advisory on my last MOT for the rears being worn.

A very quick eBay has revealed very few options, and I'm led to believe that if you go to the main dealer, you have to buy a complete ARB with the bushes attached, which is a bit stupid...

I need to get the car up and make sure it is the bushes on the front, but that's what I suspect anyway, as the LCA bushes have already been done.

What are the options?

It's an '03 D5 by the way.

[stribo]

You can get polybushes for the ARB, but you have to cut the old brackets and bushes off your anti roll bar.

[claymore]

There might be a 'How to' guide on fitting arb bushes posted up any day now :)

[MoleT-5R]

There might be a 'How to' guide on fitting arb bushes posted up any day now :)

but some on the parts may have different names to what we normally call them and there may be some un-necessary steps to take in the replacement process......lol

[massivewangers]

Oh my lord, really?

I knew there was a reason I liked old Fords, talk about over-complicated...

I presume this type of thing then? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-S60-V70-S80-Front-Anti-Roll-Bar-Bush-Repair-Kit-/271491496427?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3AV70&hash=item3f362779eb

[MoleT-5R]

Oh my lord, really?

I knew there was a reason I liked old Fords, talk about over-complicated...

I presume this type of thing then? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-S60-V70-S80-Front-Anti-Roll-Bar-Bush-Repair-Kit-/271491496427?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3AV70&hash=item3f362779eb

yep thats them, though there are probably cheaper ones out there, PFS ones will be reliably good quality

[JamesT5]

You can get polybushes for the ARB, but you have to cut the old brackets and bushes off your anti roll bar.

Like this, by any chance......... :B_thumb

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1010469_zps68ef5af0.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1010469_zps68ef5af0.jpg.html)

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1010471_zps4465c570.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1010471_zps4465c570.jpg.html)

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1010468_zps941c47eb.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1010468_zps941c47eb.jpg.html)

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1010472_zps46a990ca.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1010472_zps46a990ca.jpg.html)

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1010476_zps4059a664.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1010476_zps4059a664.jpg.html)

[JamesT5]

And it'll be having a 4 wheel alignment afterwards now I've 'had a fiddle' with the subframe (or whatever you want to call it) and the steering rack (or whatever you want to refer to it as). That is of course, unless anyone would like to 'rubbish' this as bad advice....... :mischievo

[JamesT5]

yep thats them, though there are probably cheaper ones out there, PFS ones will be reliably good quality

PFV have informed me the ones they sell (and I have purchased), are remarkably similar (very similar shall we say), to the IPD ones.

You can of course, buy the IPD uprated Anti-roll bar kit but it's a few hundred quid. The bushes shown above are a cheaper alternative.

I also recommend changing the droplinks for the Meyle HD ones, PFV also sell these on their website.

[claymore]

There might be a 'How to' guide on fitting arb bushes posted up any day now :)

I must be psychic. :D, nice to see you're saving all that money on your car James, can I ask why you decided to change the arb's, I was under the impression that there was nothing wrong with the ones you cut off.

[JamesT5]

I must be psychic. :D, nice to see you're saving all that money on your car James, can I ask why you decided to change the arb's, I was under the impression that there was nothing wrong with the ones you cut off.

They were perished and starting to split. Plus, as I had the wheels off and I was in the mood, and given that it's a relatively cheap job, I thought I'd have a go and learn something at the same time.

And stop harking on about the cost saving thing, it's wearing a little thin now.

[claymore]

They were perished and starting to split. Plus, as I had the wheels off and I was in the mood, and given that it's a relatively cheap job, I thought I'd have a go and learn something at the same time.

And stop harking on about the cost saving thing, it's wearing a little thin now.

that's fine by me as long as you stop trying to justify buying the car on the pretense that it was going to save you money.

[massivewangers]

Do feel free to wind each other up somewhere else ;)

So it's a sub frame drop job then?

[claymore]

Do feel free to wind each other up somewhere else ;)

So it's a sub frame drop job then?

Just the back of the subframe

[Sperm1980]

that's fine by me as long as you stop trying to justify buying the car on the pretense that it was going to save you money.

Who really cares????

His money, his life. Maybe he has turned it into a project? Who knows? Im sure he wouldnt post it on here if thats the case as he would probably get ££££ for that too!

At least he is having a go and keeping an old motor on the road, better than most of the shirt and tie brigade now days who cant even change a wheel without calling the AA!

Remember this is supposed to be an open forum, warts and all, and you take advice/posts, as with all forums, with a pinch of salt until you gain 'expert' advice if thats whats needed.

Ive been in this trade far too long, and still learning even now. I admire guys who try and learn stuff, even the technical stuff that is really way beyond them, at least they are having a go, even if wrong sometimes.

So can you all just chill out and enjoy????

[Sharkey R]

They were perished and starting to split. Plus, as I had the wheels off and I was in the mood, and given that it's a relatively cheap job, I thought I'd have a go and learn something at the same time.

And stop harking on about the cost saving thing, it's wearing a little thin now.

Yeah Colin enough is enough! James has enough issues without you getting on his case all the time! I mean his hairs thinning enough as it is without his patience as well. Don't worry mate having my second car hasn't saved me anything this week, just had to for out 50p on some air for the tyres. Maybe next week I'll be back in saving mode.

[JamesT5]

Do feel free to wind each other up somewhere else ;)

So it's a sub frame drop job then?

Sorry your thread went off-topic mate, I've got arguments or issues with you.

Back to helping you with your issue......

I'm assuming you have the wheels off and the car securely on axle stands, I placed mine near the front wheel arches and on the sill.

In a nutshell.....

you need to disconnect the steering rack from the Subframe (the bolts for this are obvious when you get underneath). I had 6 nuts off in total plus a 14mm bolt that seemed to be holding it on. There's a 10mm bolt holding a hydraulic or A/C line on (a silver pipe basically).

You'll need to disconnect an exhaust hanger and integrated bracket from the Subframe to avoid damaging (potentially), a thin brake line that runs across the car. I found it easier to do this by removing that curved metal plate from underneath (12mm bolts).

There's also some sort of metal shield that is in two parts and held together by 2 x 17mm bolts (one top, one lower down), this shield surrounds the bit that connects the steering column to the rack (so on the offside). You need to remove the lower part of this to get the ARB off the car as the bar is trapped inside of it. Refitting this together is a bit of a fiddle at times, just remember to make sure that when you refit it, the lower part slots underneath the silver pipes, if not the steering rack won't refit correctly. (You'll see what I mean if you have a look at it).

Support the rear part of the Subframe with a trolley jack, but make sure the car hasn't 'lifted' off the axle stands. Using an 18mm socket and breaker bar, turn the two front bolts for the Subframe 4 full turns each, anti-clockwise.

Remove the 14mm bolts at the rear of the 2 'V' shaped brackets that are at the rear of the Subframe. Then take out the 18mm bolts holding the rear of the Subframe up.

Then, slowly lower the Subframe down using the trolley jack and a little at a time,making sure nothing is still connected or likely to get damaged (i.e. brake lines, other pipes etc). It will drop down about as far as you see in my photos.

You should now be able to take the ARB out and do what you need to do.

Reassembly is basically reverse order but the steering rack may need a little bit of gentle manipulation to make sure all the threads go back in to place. Use another jack if need be to help with controlling this.

It's not that hard to do in reality, you just need to take a little care and make sure everything is back together properly. Take your time if need be too.

I hope that was useful.

[claymore]

disconnect the steering rack from the Subframe (.

It's more usual to just undo the pinch bolt on the steering column, but feel free to follow James's advice and undo the whole rack, if you just undo the column, you won't need to do a 4 wheel alignment as you won't have 'fiddled' with the steering.

[JamesT5]

It's more usual to just undo the pinch bolt on the steering column, but feel free to follow James's advice and undo the whole rack

Not just my advice......

http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?140972

or this........

http://volvospeed.com/~volvo/Mods/sway_front.html

3 people on three forums can't be wrong.....

[claymore]

Not just my advice......

http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?140972

or this........

http://volvospeed.com/~volvo/Mods/sway_front.html

3 people on three forums can't be wrong.....

Well, I stand corrected then, must be different on a P2 or perhaps left hand drive.

[JamesT5]

Well, I stand corrected then, must be different on a P2 or perhaps left hand drive.

:spam1: :wave23d:

[stribo]

Well, I stand corrected then, must be different on a P2 or perhaps left hand drive.

Yes, on the P2, the subframe has to be lowered, just one interesting point is that the Haynes manual states that new subframe bolts must be fitted when reassembling.;)

[claymore]

Yes, on the P2, the subframe has to be lowered, just one interesting point is that the Haynes manual states that new subframe bolts must be fitted when reassembling.;)

Yep, I know the subframe needs lowering, but normally you wouldn't take the rack off, you'd just split the rack off the column.

[stribo]

Yep, I know the subframe needs lowering, but normally you wouldn't take the rack off, you'd just split the rack off the column.

Sorry yeah, for some reason, you can't split the column from the rack, which is strange, on my Cougar there was a 10mm nut at the bottom of the column, once undone, the column would seperate from the rack.

[JamesT5]

Sorry yeah, for some reason, you can't split the column from the rack, which is strange, on my Cougar there was a 10mm nut at the bottom of the column, once undone, the column would seperate from the rack.

So in other words I was right all along. :smileypul

[claymore]

So in other words I was right all along. :smileypul
There is always a first time

[claymore]

Sorry yeah, for some reason, you can't split the column from the rack, which is strange, on my Cougar there was a 10mm nut at the bottom of the column, once undone, the column would seperate from the rack.
So how do you split the column from the rack?

[JamesT5]

So how do you split the column from the rack?

With an Angle Grinder.......... :mischievo ;)

[stribo]

Just had another look in Haynes, there is a pinch bolt at the base of the column inside the car, so can't see why you can't just undo that, and drop the rack with the subframe.

[JamesT5]

15mm socket and 6 bolts, just seems nice and easy.

[claymore]

15mm socket and 6 bolts, just seems nice and easy.

And the cost of a wheel alignment.

[stribo]

15mm socket and 6 bolts, just seems nice and easy.

Not as easy as 1 nut and bolt.

[Ettienne]

With an Angle Grinder.......... :mischievo ;)

I've broken an s60r you can just pull rack off the column.

You may find it necessary to use an angle grinder.

I wouldn't necessary find a 4 wheel alignment needed as not altering the geometry of the car, plus it's not cheap for a decent setup to be done, if your trying to save money.

I'd probably get my perished brake lines replaced first.

[JamesT5]

Now everyone has had chance to debate this........

I'd like to point out some very pertinent points here regarding this job and why the steering rack should be unbolted from the Subframe.....

1) The exhaust hanger bracket bolts to the top of the Subframe via a 14mm bolt that can only be lifted out completely once the steering rack moves away from the Subframe. Without removing this bolt the exhaust hanger bracket could come down and damage a brake line that runs near to that area and directly under the bracket.

2) The Anti-roll bar is trapped behind the metal plate that surrounds the end of the column where it joins the rack. You have to remove this plate to get the bar off because the plate is attached to another plate at the top so there's no way for the bar to come all the way out. To remove the plate the rack has to lift off the Subframe, if you don't, then the plate will just be stuck in position and you won't be able to slide it out without damaging (potentially), some hydraulic or similar pipes. Trust me, I tried it, it didn't work and I had to lift the rack slightly (already unbolted), in order to wiggle that plate free.

The plate I'm referring to is shown in this photo..............

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1010476_zps4059a664.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1010476_zps4059a664.jpg.html)

[Ettienne]

I was referring to separating the rack, you can loosen the column and undo the bolt and a quick snap it's away from the rack, done it 3 times.

[JamesT5]

On a foot note, the car needs a 4 wheel alignment anyway given the steering wheel isn't straight, plus it needs both inner tie-rods because there's play in them. So as you can see, wheel alignment is on the cards anyway.

Plus, can I just point out that the rack disconnection won't affect the alignment because no adjustment is made to the tie-rods. What throws the alignment out is the dropping of the Subframe because when you reconnect it to the main chassis the chassis/Subframe alignment will change.

[JamesT5]

I've broken an s60r you can just pull rack off the column.

You may find it necessary to use an angle grinder.

I wouldn't necessary find a 4 wheel alignment needed as not altering the geometry of the car, plus it's not cheap for a decent setup to be done, if your trying to save money.

I'd probably get my perished brake lines replaced first.

£40 for a 4 wheel laser alignment at a local garage around here. Not expensive.

[Ettienne]

£40 for a 4 wheel laser alignment at a local garage around here. Not expensive.

I did say a good alignment not formula 1

[Ettienne]

On a foot note, the car needs a 4 wheel alignment anyway given the steering wheel isn't straight, plus it needs both inner tie-rods because there's play in them. So as you can see, wheel alignment is on the cards anyway.

Plus, can I just point out that the rack disconnection won't affect the alignment because no adjustment is made to the tie-rods. What throws the alignment out is the dropping of the Subframe because when you reconnect it to the main chassis the chassis/Subframe alignment will change.

Did you not say it must be done, we said it wasn't necessary, make your mind up

[JamesT5]

Did you not say it must be done, we said it wasn't necessary, make your mind up

Yes, it's necessary. But it's not a consideration for me seeing I'll have it done anyway.

[MoleT-5R]

Reading all this p2 stuff has just reminded me to thank my mrs's, for writing off our p2, the T-5r's are so much nicer to work on...lol

[massivewangers]

Thanks for the constructive replies. Less thanks to those who indulged in the bickering...

To be honest, I can't believe that you have to drop the subframe just so that you can fix the anti-roll bar bushes. What a poor piece of design that is.