960 Throttle Body, or Tim Williams Throttle Body?

[Theador]

Is it better to speak to Tim Williams for one of his TB's, or use the slightly larger 960 one?

What are your experiences, and how easy is the upgrade? (Machining etc.)

[claymore]

machining is just a case of a flap wheel on the inlet manifold

[RollingThunder]

I tried to contact Tim through T5D5 for a couple of weeks but he never got back to me so I bought a 960 TB. I've yet to fit it but I'm sure it'll be ok - its just a matter of being more sensitive with the loud pedal :)

[p fandango]

Some people complain the 960 throttle body is too much on or off, but I never had an issue with it

[M-R-P]

Some people complain the 960 throttle body is too much on or off, but I never had an issue with it

Have you actually driven with it tho Pedro?

or just sat on the drive, revving it and annoying the guy next door lol.

'Bout time we had an update on BT aint it?

[MoleT-5R]

Some people complain the 960 throttle body is too much on or off, but I never had an issue with it

Same with mine, I don't find it switch like, it's quite progressive, I did wonder what it would be like before I fitted it, but its fine there's plenty of control still

[Volvostorm]

I have a Tim throttle body on mine, can't be that switch like, copes with traffic ok

[stribo]

If it's anything like when I changed the throttle body on my Cougar, it'll be more responsive but not switch like.

[Theador]

What other mods you got on yours Paul?

I've got lined up:
18t angled
Graeme Welch rip kit
Graeme W full 3" exhaust with 200cel cat
blue injectors
me7 exhaust manifold

Ipd arbs
eibachs on bilsteins
Sub frame inserts

Shem's already fitted the injectors and given it a bit of a remap. Just getting the turbo rebuilt so we can get the rest of the bits on.




I have a Tim throttle body on mine, can't be that switch like, copes with traffic ok

[p fandango]

Have you actually driven with it tho Pedro?
i fitted the 960 throttle body the same time as the 3" rip kit, so would of been a couple of years with it before she came off the road

[Theador]

Ok so reading between the lines, I'm hearing that the mod may make the car a little less friendly as a day-to-day driver? Pls bear in mind, although I like driving enthusiastically with a tuneful exhaust note, I'm not 18 anymore :-D


i fitted the 960 throttle body the same time as the 3" rip kit, so would of been a couple of years with it before she came off the road

[p fandango]

Ok so reading between the lines, I'm hearing that the mod may make the car a little less friendly as a day-to-day driver? Pls bear in mind, although I like driving enthusiastically with a tuneful exhaust note, I'm not 18 anymore :-D
i'll drive anything (& i do) but never found it a problem even on a daily basis, but i did also have bucket seats which never bothered me either lol

[Theador]

Lol

[stribo]

Ok so reading between the lines, I'm hearing that the mod may make the car a little less friendly as a day-to-day driver? Pls bear in mind, although I like driving enthusiastically with a tuneful exhaust note, I'm not 18 anymore :-D

No, not less driveable, just more 'eager', you just need to be a bit more careful with your right foot. ;)

[Theador]

Can't get hold of Tim at the mo, does anyone know how much roughly he charges for his?


No, not less driveable, just more 'eager', you just need to be a bit more careful with your right foot. ;)

[Volvostorm]

What other mods you got on yours Paul?

I've got lined up:
18t angled
Graeme Welch rip kit
Graeme W full 3" exhaust with 200cel cat
blue injectors
me7 exhaust manifold

Ipd arbs
eibachs on bilsteins
Sub frame inserts

Shem's already fitted the injectors and given it a bit of a remap. Just getting the turbo rebuilt so we can get the rest of the bits on.

Briefly,

Forged rods
81.5mm forged pistons
Piper fast road cams
Ported heads, with new valves and guides
New bearings, seals and main engine bolts
Garrett GT3071R turbo on ME7 exhaust manifold
3" turbo back exhaust
630cc Simens Deka injectors
Walbro 255 fuel pump
Tim Williams throttle body
THS intercooler

Other bits:
Gripper differential
AP Racing front calipers, with 328mm discs
S60R Brembo rear calipers, with 330mm discs
Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 8x17 wheels
IPD anti-roll bars
poly bushed wishbones and gearbox mounts
Subframe mounts
C70 cabrio chassis brace
Koni FSD shocks, and Eibach springs.

[munster732]

Can't get hold of Tim at the mo, does anyone know how much roughly he charges for his?

I think I saw a post on t5d5 quoting £65 ish exchange, if Tim is going to map your car it's better to get one of his throttle bodies as he rates em better for mapping

[Theador]

Sounds about right I guess. Cheers


I think I saw a post on t5d5 quoting £65 ish exchange, if Tim is going to map your car it's better to get one of his throttle bodies as he rates em better for mapping

[Theador]

Ha! One or two things then :-D
Do you know what BHP you've got it up to? I put 302mm brakes on the front of mine, which made a bit of difference, but not huge, mind you I'm running crappy Eicher discs on stock pads at the mo. Is it common to run bigger discs on the back? I know that's kind of how they come out of the factory, but I was always under the impression it's the fronts that do most of the stopping.


Briefly,

Forged rods
81.5mm forged pistons
Piper fast road cams
Ported heads, with new valves and guides
New bearings, seals and main engine bolts
Garrett GT3071R turbo on ME7 exhaust manifold
3" turbo back exhaust
630cc Simens Deka injectors
Walbro 255 fuel pump
Tim Williams throttle body
THS intercooler

Other bits:
Gripper differential
AP Racing front calipers, with 328mm discs
S60R Brembo rear calipers, with 330mm discs
Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 8x17 wheels
IPD anti-roll bars
poly bushed wishbones and gearbox mounts
Subframe mounts
C70 cabrio chassis brace
Koni FSD shocks, and Eibach springs.

[Volvostorm]

You could say one or two things!

Probably be more shocked to hear, I haven't driven it for over a week, its just sitting outside my house! :eye-poppi

No idea about the BHP figure at the moment, its still being run in, but, best guess around the 400bhp mark.

My rear brakes are stock S60R items, no idea why they are bigger, nearly all Volvo are like that.

Braided hoses and a fluid change will help alot with your brakes, 302s ate a great upgrades in terms that you can now stop in the same postcode!

[Theador]

Haha, yeah I guess I'm no longer embarrassingly reversing back to the line at junctions.

I'm going to do the braided hoses and fluid like you said. Seems a logical step to get rid of some spongeyness.

Let me know if you still want to swap out/sell your seats. I'll send you a pic of mine tomorrow if you're interested.



You could say one or two things!

Probably be more shocked to hear, I haven't driven it for over a week, its just sitting outside my house! :eye-poppi

No idea about the BHP figure at the moment, its still being run in, but, best guess around the 400bhp mark.

My rear brakes are stock S60R items, no idea why they are bigger, nearly all Volvo are like that.

Braided hoses and a fluid change will help alot with your brakes, 302s ate a great upgrades in terms that you can now stop in the same postcode!

[Volvostorm]

Once I've fixed its latest issue, the brake lights! I will probably be taking it back to my unit where the seats will be removed, you are more than welcome to them, but, I have alot going on at the moment, so bare with me, you will get them! :)

[Theador]

Cheers Paul. Good luck with the lights.

[MoleT-5R]

I am surprised that no one has asked what is different with Tim's TB to the 960 one TBH ?

[Doingitsideways]

I am surprised that no one has asked what is different with Tim's TB to the 960 one TBH ?

Go on then...

Feed my curiosity monkey! ;)

[MoleT-5R]

Go on then...

Feed my curiosity monkey! ;)

Oh.. thats £#cked it, thought someone might tell me ......lol

looks like theres more than one curiosity monkey!

[jamesy12345]

http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/5312-larger-trottle-body-mod/

The standard throttle plate has a plastic wedge on it to reduce air flow on part throttle, this is why T5's need a lot of pedal movement to pull off. A 960 one can be fitted but plumbing and wiring mods are required to fit correctly thats why I got some standard ones bored out with new plane butterflys. They give better throttle response and can help hold higher boot at high revs.

Quote by Sir Tim, Book of Tim verse 1:327

[Theador]

I got pretty good throttle response from blue injectors and a good map.

So with the mods I've got planned, sounds like a Tim or Jamesy12345 throttle body might be the way to go.


http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/5312-larger-trottle-body-mod/

The standard throttle plate has a plastic wedge on it to reduce air flow on part throttle, this is why T5's need a lot of pedal movement to pull off. A 960 one can be fitted but plumbing and wiring mods are required to fit correctly thats why I got some standard ones bored out with new plane butterflys. They give better throttle response and can help hold higher boot at high revs.

[Doingitsideways]

So with the mods I've got planned, sounds like a Tim or Jamesy12345 throttle body might be the way to go.

James might be an engineer, but he's not that good! ;)

[jamesy12345]

I got pretty good throttle response from blue injectors and a good map.

So with the mods I've got planned, sounds like a Tim or Jamesy12345 throttle body might be the way to go.

?? Not mine mate Volvo or Tim invented it


James might be an engineer, but he's not that good! ;)

Oo told you I was an engineer? I couldn't engineer my way out of a paper bag

[MoleT-5R]

http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/5312-larger-trottle-body-mod/

The standard throttle plate has a plastic wedge on it to reduce air flow on part throttle, this is why T5's need a lot of pedal movement to pull off. A 960 one can be fitted but plumbing and wiring mods are required to fit correctly thats why I got some standard ones bored out with new plane butterflys. They give better throttle response and can help hold higher boot at high revs.

Quote by Sir Tim, Book of Tim verse 1:327

An interesting read that, thanks I know consider myself up to speed with the Tim TB differences, pitty that the car mis-fired when he tried to test them back to back, as the torque and hp graphs would have been interesting to see from 2k-4k.

[jamesy12345]

An interesting read that, thanks I know consider myself up to speed with the Tim TB differences, pitty that the car mis-fired when he tried to test them back to back, as the torque and hp graphs would have been interesting to see from 2k-4k.

probably not much in it for what I'm doing, I would say that though cos just bought a 960 item :)

[emm]

I have a 960 TB on mine. It just makes it more responsive thats about it. Before i'd stab the loud pedal and there would a pause now there isn't.

I'm presuming there are some torque gains but i have no proof.

Andy

[p fandango]

lol extending 3/4 (can't remember how many) isn't rocket science

[theflyingbrick]

if your lucky (like i was) you dont have to extend anything!! just port out the inlet and bolt on the tb......job done ;)

[t5 pete]

I never needed to extend the wires either there was more than enough slack in the loom to make it pug together

[Jamest5r]

Nor me my wires fitted :)

[MoleT-5R]

Mine where fine too...

http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b526/MoleT5R/Moles%20T5%20R%20Project%20Olive/DSCN3233_zps9d7268b6.jpg (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/MoleT5R/media/Moles%20T5%20R%20Project%20Olive/DSCN3233_zps9d7268b6.jpg.html)

[inde_house]

Heres a question......as I use my car for the daily commute I have the average mpg running at about 23.5.

Does fitting the 3 inch tb affect the mpg much.

[MoleT-5R]

Heres a question......as I use my car for the daily commute I have the average mpg running at about 23.5.

Does fitting the 3 inch tb affect the mpg much.

I've not noticed any increase in consumption, but then I haven't really tried to find out what it is able to do, compared to how it used to be before, as I used to spend the drive to and from the place I used to work, boring myself to tears trying squeeze the maximum average I could over the week and then try again to beat it the following week, but as the the area I life is very hilly and my commute is short I no longer bother so do really know what it does now, yet I don't seem to be putting any more petrol in for where I'm going

[Theador]

Not related to the TB, but I had bigger injectors and a remap to suit by Shem, my Fuel economy has gone up by about 8-10mpg. I think the stock map must be extremely bad on fuel economy. If you're worried about fuel, I'd strongly suggest getting your car mapped. Of course if I'm constantly hooning around fuel economy is worst because I can now throw a lot more fuel and air into the engine, but for sensible driving, everything remains the same, but with better MPG. I would imagine the same applies to a TB, if you only partly open the butterfly fully then of course more air and fuel go in, if you don't, it doesn't.

[GregE102]

An interesting read that, thanks I know consider myself up to speed with the Tim TB differences, pitty that the car mis-fired when he tried to test them back to back, as the torque and hp graphs would have been interesting to see from 2k-4k.

Please can you be more elaborate on what you actually mean?
Which BT was on to begin with? And who did the back to back testing? You or Tim?
Thanks Greg

[MoleT-5R]

Please can you be more elaborate on what you actually mean?
Which BT was on to begin with? And who did the back to back testing? You or Tim?
Thanks Greg

Back to back testing was never done due to a technical problem, Here's a copy of the link from an earlier post in this thread with all the info you seek...http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/5312-larger-trottle-body-mod/

[jamesy12345]

Not related to the TB, but I had bigger injectors and a remap to suit by Shem, my Fuel economy has gone up by about 8-10mpg. I think the stock map must be extremely bad on fuel economy. If you're worried about fuel, I'd strongly suggest getting your car mapped. Of course if I'm constantly hooning around fuel economy is worst because I can now throw a lot more fuel and air into the engine, but for sensible driving, everything remains the same, but with better MPG. I would imagine the same applies to a TB, if you only partly open the butterfly fully then of course more air and fuel go in, if you don't, it doesn't.

You need to check the fuel economy by how much petrol you are putting in the tank compared to miles, not with the info on the intrument display...with different injectors the numbers will be wrong

[T5frankie]

You need to check the fuel economy by how much petrol you are putting in the tank compared to miles, not with the info on the intrument display...with different injectors the numbers will be wrong

agree when you change the injectors the digital display can be miles out

[Theador]

Oh. So it's back to the old-skool of filling the tank and recording the mileage.

[jamesy12345]

Oh. So it's back to the old-skool of filling the tank and recording the mileage.

Maybe you can work it out by reducing the mpg on dash by the ratio of the new injectors CC to the old...did that make sense....

If you went from orange to white or blue (at 3 bar) that is 315 to 350 cc, so multiply the reading on the dash by 0.9

There is a chance I am talking utter ££££££££

[Theador]

And that's why I love this forum. Thanks Jamesy.


Maybe you can work it out by reducing the mpg on dash by the ratio of the new injectors CC to the old...did that make sense....

If you went from orange to white or blue (at 3 bar) that is 315 to 350 cc, so multiply the reading on the dash by 0.9

There is a chance I am talking utter ££££££££

[Theador]

So, if the TB were changed, would you also see a change in fuel economy, and inacurate dash readings?

[T5frankie]

Maybe you can work it out by reducing the mpg on dash by the ratio of the new injectors CC to the old...did that make sense....

If you went from orange to white or blue (at 3 bar) that is 315 to 350 cc, so multiply the reading on the dash by 0.9

There is a chance I am talking utter ££££££££

sound like ££££££££ to me lol

[Theador]

Haha, well your math got me back to roughly the mpg I used to feet so it might not be so ££££££full after all.

[jamesy12345]

sound like ££££££££ to me lol


Haha, well your math got me back to roughly the mpg I used to feet so it might not be so ££££££full after all.

I heard a rumour on the Scooby forums....see post 10

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2373760

[Theador]

Good. Then maybe I am getting better mpg. Full tank of petrol certainly seemed to last longer.