V70R M66 Gearbox

[Craigy t5]

Hi all,

When the car is cold it will not select first gear, the car needs to be reversed slightly then it will go in first, this will also happen the other way about,,,,,,, it will go in gear with the engine switched off and clutch pressed,
all is good once car has moved/warm.
Has anybody else experienced this or any idea what could be causing it.?

[LeeT5]

Normally, if you can select gear when the engine is off but not when it's running, it's because the clutch is not fully disconnected or dragging slightly. This is normally caused by either the slave cylinder not working correctly or the clutch itself is worn on the release bearing and fingers.
It could also be a slight leak.
Other than that, I would check your lower transmission torque mount is not knackered. It can prevent proper gear selection.
Have you checked your gearbox oil level? Quality and quantity have an adverse affect on gear selection.
Other than that, your looking at a new gearbox.

[JamesT5]

Hi all,

When the car is cold it will not select first gear, the car needs to be reversed slightly then it will go in first, this will also happen the other way about,,,,,,, it will go in gear with the engine switched off and clutch pressed,
all is good once car has moved/warm.
Has anybody else experienced this or any idea what could be causing it.?

If your transmission oil is low you'll likely have issues with all gears, I'd be looking at the syncro for 1st gear as you may have wear to that part of the internals. When the car and engine warms up things expand which is why you may be having more trouble from cold.

The lower torque mount won't make the slightest bit of difference because if you're using 1st gear then you're either travelling so slowly or not at all, that any movement in the gearbox will be pretty negligible if not non existent.

A Gearbox specialist might be able to help you confirm the diagnosis further but my money would be on the syncro in the gearbox.

Good luck! :D

[Harvey]

Best thing to do is change the gearbox oil as it's by far the cheapest thing to do.

It does sound like the clutch plate is dragging in the flywheel or the pressure plate ,the splines on the gearbox input shaft can get a bit gummed up over time and can stop the clutch plate floating around or the clutch plate could be distorted just a little bit to cause the fault you have.

Get the oil changed in the box ,and have a very good look at what comes out the drain plug not sure if there's a magnet on the drain plug.

[LeeT5]

If your transmission oil is low you'll likely have issues with all gears, I'd be looking at the syncro for 1st gear as you may have wear to that part of the internals. When the car and engine warms up things expand which is why you may be having more trouble from cold.

The lower torque mount won't make the slightest bit of difference because if you're using 1st gear then you're either travelling so slowly or not at all, that any movement in the gearbox will be pretty negligible if not non existent.

A Gearbox specialist might be able to help you confirm the diagnosis further but my money would be on the syncro in the gearbox.

Good luck! :D

Not always. There is less effort to change into higher gears (from the gearbox design perspective) and therefore your more likely to have problems in lower gears, ie 1st and reverse.

Utter B@ll@cks!!! If you have excess movement of the engine, in relation to the subframe, then it can cause the gear selector cables to move too much resulting in difficult gear changes. Obviously, the most movement would be when the car is stationary and your trying to select 1st or reverse gear. Once the car is moving, then there is less torsional movement and gear changes become easier. I know this for a fact because both my car and an identical R belonging to a friend of mine had knackered Lower trans mount bushes and gear changes were less than slick, especially in the low gears! Once new bushes were fitted, the gear changes and low gear selection were vastly improved.

James, you know nothing about gearbox's and have no doubt gleamed you're vast knowledge of synchromesh from a 10 minute video on You tube. Please stop trying to make out you know what your talking about and then try to advise ppl on here. Whilst a gearbox specialist would be able to advise Craigy of his problem, you certainly cannot and you'd be better placed just not saying anything at all - other than stating the bloody obvious!

[LeeT5]

Best thing to do is change the gearbox oil as it's by far the cheapest thing to do.

It does sound like the clutch plate is dragging in the flywheel or the pressure plate ,the splines on the gearbox input shaft can get a bit gummed up over time and can stop the clutch plate floating around or the clutch plate could be distorted just a little bit to cause the fault you have.

Get the oil changed in the box ,and have a very good look at what comes out the drain plug not sure if there's a magnet on the drain plug.

Totally agree!

Contaminated gear oil is no different to contaminated engine oil. It will lose it's viscosity and it's ability to cool, resulting in components overheating, deforming and accelerated wear.

One thing I need to ask you Craigy, have your symptoms suddenly started or has it been getting gradually worse? If it's not the latter then it won't be the gear oil. However, Harvey is right.
You should always start with the simple things first. visual inspection of the gearbox externally, any leaks or damage? Visually check the bushes, especially the lower transmission torque mount and the upper engine mount. Both will cause excessive movement of the engine and both are very cheap to fix in comparison to a gearbox strip down!
Have the actual gear cables worn? Check the mounting points and any associated retaining clips.

Have the gearbox oil drained, Inspected for colour, smell and and debris. Refill with good quality, proper grade oil. Road test and observe the symptoms.....do they improve or stay the same? If the latter then it's gonna cost you, whether it's a worn synchromesh or not - the gearbox will still have to be removed from the car and be opened up. That will ultimately cost thousands because you'll be obviously putting a new clutch, DMF and slave in as well (once the gearbox is fixed/replaced) and that alone will be £1500 - £1700!

[JamesT5]

[QUOTE=LeeT5;721139]Not always. There is less effort to change into higher gears (from the gearbox design perspective) and therefore your more likely to have problems in lower gears, ie 1st and reverse.

Utter B@ll@cks!!! If you have excess movement of the engine, in relation to the subframe, then it can cause the gear selector cables to move too much resulting in difficult gear changes. Obviously, the most movement would be when the car is stationary and your trying to select 1st or reverse gear. Once the car is moving, then there is less torsional movement and gear changes become easier. I know this for a fact because both my car and an identical R belonging to a friend of mine had knackered Lower trans mount bushes and gear changes were less than slick, especially in the low gears! Once new bushes were fitted, the gear changes and low gear selection were vastly improved.

James, you know nothing about gearbox's and have no doubt gleamed you're vast knowledge of synchromesh from a 10 minute video on You tube. Please stop trying to make out you know what your talking about and then try to advise ppl on here. Whilst a gearbox specialist would be able to advise Craigy of his problem, you certainly can

I find it odd how you reply to my advice in big bold writing that you feel the need to paint bright colours to match your ego. The thing is I am trying to help out in the thread, I notice you don't shoot other people down when they give their advice in the same way.

[I][B]You're theory on the torque mount is wrong, there'll be more movement when the engine is running - I suggest you stop having a dig at a man who has had his fair share of gearbox problems.

Now let's see how many colours we can paint this reply....

:hilarious

[JamesT5]

Sorry Craigy T5, I just had to make sure Lee got the message. I hope you get your gearbox issue sorted out, regardless of who's advice you take. :B_thumb:

[stribo]

[QUOTE=LeeT5;721139]Not always. There is less effort to change into higher gears (from the gearbox design perspective) and therefore your more likely to have problems in lower gears, ie 1st and reverse.

Utter B@ll@cks!!! If you have excess movement of the engine, in relation to the subframe, then it can cause the gear selector cables to move too much resulting in difficult gear changes. Obviously, the most movement would be when the car is stationary and your trying to select 1st or reverse gear. Once the car is moving, then there is less torsional movement and gear changes become easier. I know this for a fact because both my car and an identical R belonging to a friend of mine had knackered Lower trans mount bushes and gear changes were less than slick, especially in the low gears! Once new bushes were fitted, the gear changes and low gear selection were vastly improved.

James, you know nothing about gearbox's and have no doubt gleamed you're vast knowledge of synchromesh from a 10 minute video on You tube. Please stop trying to make out you know what your talking about and then try to advise ppl on here. Whilst a gearbox specialist would be able to advise Craigy of his problem, you certainly can

I find it odd how you reply to my advice in big bold writing that you feel the need to paint bright colours to match your ego. The thing is I am trying to help out in the thread, I notice you don't shoot other people down when they give their advice in the same way.

[I][B]You're theory on the torque mount is wrong, there'll be more movement when the engine is running - I suggest you stop having a dig at a man who has had his fair share of gearbox problems.

Now let's see how many colours we can paint this reply....

:hilarious

zzzzzzzzz this is starting to get a bit boring now mate, just accept Lee knows more about cars (it's his job) and listen to what he says, then you'll learn something, and it might save you money in the future.

[960kg]

Not always. There is less effort to change into higher gears (from the gearbox design perspective) and therefore your more likely to have problems in lower gears, ie 1st and reverse.

Utter B@ll@cks!!! If you have excess movement of the engine, in relation to the subframe, then it can cause the gear selector cables to move too much resulting in difficult gear changes. Obviously, the most movement would be when the car is stationary and your trying to select 1st or reverse gear. Once the car is moving, then there is less torsional movement and gear changes become easier. I know this for a fact because both my car and an identical R belonging to a friend of mine had knackered Lower trans mount bushes and gear changes were less than slick, especially in the low gears! Once new bushes were fitted, the gear changes and low gear selection were vastly improved.

James, you know nothing about gearbox's and have no doubt gleamed you're vast knowledge of synchromesh from a 10 minute video on You tube. Please stop trying to make out you know what your talking about and then try to advise ppl on here. Whilst a gearbox specialist would be able to advise Craigy of his problem, you certainly cannot and you'd be better placed just not saying anything at all - other than stating the bloody obvious!

Lee, you are far worse than ever i could be even after 48yrs of DIY motors and several best friends in the Medway area with there own motor business!.......

You are really very harsh and rude on a fellow member who is just trying to help with his own opinion another fellow member the OP.......he does not slate or even mention your post as it is his own opinion only which is what your supposed to do, just give your opinion.....

I know what it is like being ridiculed on forums and this one is no different to me myself.......it is sadly the clicky set that do not like those that have other answers to problems with motors!....

Well in my experience of gearboxes old and new it does sound like the OP`s synchro on bottom gear has worn enough for it not to go in gear easily when stationary, that is why the car has to move for to turn the box a bit so it go`s in gear......on old boxes with no synchro on 1st and reverse selection was just as difficult sometimes as the gears would hit out of alignment and so the clutch had to be dipped again to help move the layshaft thus moving first into a better mesh ....but then i don`t suppose you know about that sort of thing as your not old enough!

If you know gearboxes you should know that the resistance in any gear is almost the same as it is the shaft on which the gears are on moves ......they all move and it is just the direction of shaft movement which locks a certain gear.

When the bottom mount you talk of wears so you say 1st gear would be awkward to engage, yes, that is true, but you only pick out half the story as it would effect all gear engagements as the mount has worn badly, so it doesn`t appear to be that.

It would still change gear ok with dirty oil as Volvo say don`t change the oil!....it is mainly auto`s that are funny with oil including the correct oil........manuals are forgiving as you just push harder to engage.

So you can now have a go at me but try and do it not at 3am...... do it when your probably more sober although AA can stand for a couple of organisations:uglyhamme


I am not sticking up for James...he can do that himself.......i just don`t like rudeness to other members.

[JamesT5]

[QUOTE=JamesT5;721147]

zzzzzzzzz this is starting to get a bit boring now mate, just accept Lee knows more about cars (it's his job) and listen to what he says, then you'll learn something, and it might save you money in the future.

Yes, that part I agree with but I don't agree Lee will save me money in the future because 95% of his posts to me are filled with aggressive stabs and insults aimed at bullying me out of this forum. Well I won't have it, I'm sorry Steve. There's a very small minority (I mean very small) on here who really don't do themselves any favours when they reply to my threads. Some will have a different opinion to me on that but then I'd expect them to.

I enjoy meeting most of you from here at meet events, I'm just waiting for the day when I bump in to this 'minority' group at some point.

Sorry to Craigy T5 if your thread has gone temporarily gone off topic, this isn't about your issue.

[Sharkey R]

I'm with Lee on the lower torque mount bushes. When I first got my car first gear wasn't the easiest to select. It was explained to me at Volvo that the slackness in the lower torque bushes could mean the linkage is slightly out of alignment. They changed the lower torque bushes, both large and small and my gear changes were perfect afterwards. I understand why Lee gets annoyed at you James because some of your posts aren't always right. When Lee comes back with a different answer you straight away get all defensive. I've no doubt you have knowledge of cars and respect that but from first hand experience Lee does know what he's talking about. This is a forum and people will have different answers to questions but to criticise him openly when he's giving a professionals answer is a bit off in my opinion. Bickering with each other on people's threads isn't doing any good to the poor sods asking for advise. It's very entertaining to watch the tennis match that is LeeT5 and JamesT5 but go careful you guys don't alienate people from this forum. I don't like to take sides but in most cases I'd side with Lee in his answers.

[dant5r]

I've been a member of this forum for almost a year now but I dont post much. I have noticed over the last year a number of threads that have turned into a heated discussion. Yes a good debate is good but a outright slagging match is not good for the forum.
They are members of this forum that feel it is right to bully members over they opinions, the people behind the forum need to do something about these members are it will drive away good members.

[Jamest5r]

I've been a member of this forum for almost a year now but I dont post much. I have noticed over the last year a number of threads that have turned into a heated discussion. Yes a good debate is good but a outright slagging match is not good for the forum.
They are members of this forum that feel it is right to bully members over they opinions, the people behind the forum need to do something about these members are it will drive away good members.

Name and.shame.then.......

[The White Knight]

Lee, you are far worse than ever i could be even after 48yrs of DIY motors and several best friends in the Medway area with there own motor business!.......

You are really very harsh and rude on a fellow member who is just trying to help with his own opinion another fellow member the OP.......he does not slate or even mention your post as it is his own opinion only which is what your supposed to do, just give your opinion.....

I know what it is like being ridiculed on forums and this one is no different to me myself.......it is sadly the clicky set that do not like those that have other answers to problems with motors!....

Well in my experience of gearboxes old and new it does sound like the OP`s synchro on bottom gear has worn enough for it not to go in gear easily when stationary, that is why the car has to move for to turn the box a bit so it go`s in gear......on old boxes with no synchro on 1st and reverse selection was just as difficult sometimes as the gears would hit out of alignment and so the clutch had to be dipped again to help move the layshaft thus moving first into a better mesh ....but then i don`t suppose you know about that sort of thing as your not old enough!

If you know gearboxes you should know that the resistance in any gear is almost the same as it is the shaft on which the gears are on moves ......they all move and it is just the direction of shaft movement which locks a certain gear.

When the bottom mount you talk of wears so you say 1st gear would be awkward to engage, yes, that is true, but you only pick out half the story as it would effect all gear engagements as the mount has worn badly, so it doesn`t appear to be that.

It would still change gear ok with dirty oil as Volvo say don`t change the oil!....it is mainly auto`s that are funny with oil including the correct oil........manuals are forgiving as you just push harder to engage.

So you can now have a go at me but try and do it not at 3am...... do it when your probably more sober although AA can stand for a couple of organisations:uglyhamme


I am not sticking up for James...he can do that himself.......i just don`t like rudeness to other members.

Agree with all of this, I think James is spot on re the Synchro.

[LeeT5]

Well in my experience of gearboxes old and new it does sound like the OP`s synchro

I never said it wasn't and If I wanna post at 3am, I will.

[LeeT5]

Well in my experience of gearboxes old and new it does sound like the OP`s synchro on bottom gear has worn enough for it not to go in gear easily when stationary, that is why the car has to move for to turn the box a bit so it go`s in gear......on old boxes with no synchro on 1st and reverse selection was just as difficult sometimes as the gears would hit out of alignment and so the clutch had to be dipped again to help move the layshaft thus moving first into a better mesh ....but then i don`t suppose you know about that sort of thing as your not old enough!


Oh, I know what a layshaft is! Have been working on gearboxes since '89/90 and pulled many gearboxes apart when I worked on huge plant vehicles for 14 years, now working in the Motor trade for 11 years, I don't need to justify my skill set or knowledge to anyone. Have been in the trade many years, thou clearly not as long as you have.

[LeeT5]

It would still change gear ok with dirty oil as Volvo say don`t change the oil!....it is mainly auto`s that are funny with oil including the correct oil........manuals are forgiving as you just push harder to engage.

So you can now have a go at me but try and do it not at 3am...... do it when your probably more sober although AA can stand for a couple of organisations:uglyhamme


I am not sticking up for James...he can do that himself.......i just don`t like rudeness to other members.

That's incorrect. Volvo do change the gearbox oil as part of the service schedule. I think your referring to the Haldex oil and the Angle gear (which are sealed for life!) 'Volvo's terminology', not mine!

[LeeT5]

When the bottom mount you talk of wears so you say 1st gear would be awkward to engage, yes, that is true, but you only pick out half the story as it would effect all gear engagements as the mount has worn badly, so it doesn`t appear to be that.



Sorry, but that statement is not true.
As many have already said, a worn lower torque mount only really makes lower gear selection difficult. Higher gear changes will always be easier because generally, at speed, there is less torque being applied to the gearbox from the engine, therefore less movement, so the gears will always be easier to select higher up. That would not apply so much if you were thrashing it.

I and others know that to be the case.

[LeeT5]

I'm not even going to bother replying to James's childish response.

[JamesT5]

I'm not even going to bother replying to James's childish response.

It's ok because I'm not replying to yours either. :hihi: :hilarious....


Oooops, forgot the colour, bold and italics. Never mind... :haha:

[The White Knight]

It's ok because I'm not replying to yours either. :hihi: :hilarious....


Oooops, forgot the colour, bold and italics. Never mind... :haha:

You two need a room :smlove2:

[JamesT5]

You two need a room :smlove2:

Well, if you're paying....... :hilarious

[T5RatherAmusin]

25635

[V70 Graham]

Hopefully this thread will keep us all entertained tonight......no footie on telly lol

[Harvey]

Hopefully this thread will keep us all entertained tonight......no footie on telly lol

Good news all round,off down the pub should be nice and quiet with no football on.

[Craigy t5]

Totally agree!

Contaminated gear oil is no different to contaminated engine oil. It will lose it's viscosity and it's ability to cool, resulting in components overheating, deforming and accelerated wear.

One thing I need to ask you Craigy, have your symptoms suddenly started or has it been getting gradually worse? If it's not the latter then it won't be the gear oil. However, Harvey is right.
You should always start with the simple things first. visual inspection of the gearbox externally, any leaks or damage? Visually check the bushes, especially the lower transmission torque mount and the upper engine mount. Both will cause excessive movement of the engine and both are very cheap to fix in comparison to a gearbox strip down!
Have the actual gear cables worn? Check the mounting points and any associated retaining clips.

Have the gearbox oil drained, Inspected for colour, smell and and debris. Refill with good quality, proper grade oil. Road test and observe the symptoms.....do they improve or stay the same? If the latter then it's gonna cost you, whether it's a worn synchromesh or not - the gearbox will still have to be removed from the car and be opened up. That will ultimately cost thousands because you'll be obviously putting a new clutch, DMF and slave in as well (once the gearbox is fixed/replaced) and that alone will be £1500 - £1700!

Had the car 2 years, same symptons since then - will have a go at changeing the gear oil at weekend and report back

[LeeT5]

Once my gearbox oil was recently changed, I did notice the gear changes were a lot more, fluid! And no, I wasn't imagining it.

[Craigy t5]

Fresh Volvo gearoil has done the trick, :)

[stribo]

Nice one, and a lot cheaper than a box rebuild. ;)

[Nealevo]

Glad it was s cheap fix, and that you took advice from people who know about cars, did someone mention sycros, what a numpty!!!