Think I need a new fuel pump soon

[JamesT5]

I think I'll need a new fuel pump soon....

Annoying isn't it, you take off in 1st gear with WOT, drop the clutch then repeat the same in 2nd gear only to find the boost drops off and the revs won't go any higher before suddenly coming back again. Not only that, but some times the car 'splutters' on a start and, as MRP will testify, will try and start and then 'die' straight away especially after a long run (the fuel pump probably gets 'hot').

Now, this problem has been around prior to the refurb on my Turbo and I'm almost certain my fuel pump is getting weak. When I open the throttle fully (in 1st and 2nd particularly) it obviously demands a lot of fuel flow, then when the pump can't manage to push that much fuel through, the ECU intervenes and cuts the boost until the fuel flow has caught up and hence the drop in power. If the fuel pump is becoming weak and the tank is getting low it will have problems pushing fuel as there is less 'weight' behind it so the pump has to work harder. Might explain the occasional start-up issue as well.

Considering I've got refurbed injectors and turbo, a TCV/BCS from Volvo that's only around 12 months old, no obvious splits in my vacuum lines (another possibility of course) and no split hoses or pipes (as far as I can tell), it's a fairly safe bet that the fuel pump has seen better days.

Before I consider a remap or rolling road session I think I'll change the fuel pump and sender units (my fuel gauge doesn't work as some will recall), and then go from there. Preferably new ones as well of course, other than that some quality low mileage second hand parts will be ok and Bridgend Volvo Specialsts will be doing the work for me because one slight issue with that plastic 'O' ring and I'll have a massive fuel leak (been there, done that, got the T-Shirt).

[Harvey]

Are you getting a low fuel pressure code ?.

[merc85]

fuel pressure reg issue??

[JamesT5]

No error codes.

[M-R-P]

Break it :D

[JamesT5]

Btw, I can also rule out a fuel filter issue because the problem has been present either side of a new fuel filter change.

[JamesT5]

Break it :D

:bullwhip: :sinner: ;)

[Harvey]

No error codes.

If a part starts to fail and the sensors pick it up ,they will log it as a amber fault to be looked at next time it's in at volvo to look at it.
But it has to go beyond the tolerance Volvo have set before it throws a fault code.which will be logged as a red code and pop up a fault message.

[LeeT5]

I agree with Harvey.

If your car tried to stall and/or hesitate due to insufficient fuel in the rail, then you most definitely would have a fault logged regards FPS or fuel pressure. If you haven't got that, then I doubt very much your pump is knackered.
Unless the CEM actually logs a fault because the FPS went out of tolerance (if your correct) then you won't see a code using a generic code reader. You'd have 'amber' warning at least in VIDA if the fault occurs once and twice will log as Red.
The symptoms you describe sound more like a faulty FPS or Air leak problem.
Incidentally, what you just described mirrors my cracked intercooler symptoms. My car was behaving just the same.
The Air leak was causing the car to behave erratically at idle once the car warmed up and only now and again would it do it. I was also getting loss of power and loss of boost, only when the car was hot.

Also, on a side note, you would have to be running fuel injectors the size of bic biros before the fuel pump ran out of supply. I doubt very much that even on WOT (no matter what gear your in) the demand would ever out strip supply, no matter how weak your pump was - and if it is the case, then you 100% will have a low fuel pressure fault logged and pending and both would be picked up by VIDA and a generic code reader.

As far as fuel pumps go (especially where petrol is concerned) they either work or they don't!

[Gold 'N' Brown]

James, just for comparison, my pump is suffering too, but the only evidence is the ever present high pitched whine it makes and the occasional problem starting. I've not had any of the other symptoms you described.

The whining has been there since I bought the car (didn't know then what the problem was). I read that they can do this for thousands upon thousands of miles before failing fully so I'm just going to carry on until it causes more prevalent problems (not because I want to stick my head in the sand, but quite simply because I have nothing but crumbs in my pockets so I'm being forced to adopt the bangernomics approach to motoring now). Very occasionally it will turn over a few extra revolutions on the starter before it fires, and I've only had a actual failure to start once, when I was down to about a quarter of a tank with an indicated 100-odd miles range on the display. Chucked half a gallon of old petrol in it, that I had sat in the garage, and it fired straight up.

[Harvey]

The rubber seal on the petrol filler cap is still in one piece as they do dry out and crack over time and can cause problems..

[JamesT5]

So are some of you suggesting an air leak or a vacuum leak, possibly?

[graemewelch]

James you must be the most patient bloke i know. I know you wont but for christ get a car that dosnt ££££ up every two weeks

[M-R-P]

So are some of you suggesting an air leak or a vacuum leak, possibly?

Always look at the cheapest/simplest answer mate. There's been a lot of stuff taken off and refitted several times recently, something might have sprung a leak.

[LeeT5]

So are some of you suggesting an air leak or a vacuum leak, possibly?

What were suggesting is that perhaps you should get the fault properly diagnosed. It's unlikely your fuel pump is the fault and more likely something else.

[JamesT5]

James you must be the most patient bloke i know. I know you wont but for christ get a car that dosnt ££££ up every two weeks

This problem has been around for months, its just now starting to get on my nerves.

[JamesT5]

Ok a video that I made this afternoon showing a whistle sound coming from engine bay and it's usually during this time that the power drops off.

Sorry about the camera shake - I had the camera taped to the dash dome on the car. I also apologise, I had to be a bit brutal on the throttle to demonstrate the issue.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duAisUxKMaI&feature=youtu.be

[M-R-P]

That sounds like the frightening sound of T5 detonation - I think you should have the AFR checked, she's possibly running lean under full boost.

[JamesT5]

That sounds like the frightening sound of T5 detonation - I think you should have the AFR checked, she's possibly running lean under full boost.

Are you referring to the fuel regulator?

[JamesT5]

Detonation would leave signs on the spark plugs from what I recall and if you remember, my plugs were recently inspected and found to be fine.

[JamesT5]

That sounds like the frightening sound of T5 detonation - I think you should have the AFR checked, she's possibly running lean under full boost.

I'll be interested to put this car on a rolling road and see what the BHP and WHP actually are, if you recall the guy at BVS said he thinks the car has been mapped but I doubt that very much. I have this thought because a remember someone telling me a story about a certain car that was mapped, ran too lean and the pistons melted (allegedly)..... :shhh:

Anyway, this problem has been around for a while plus the cylinders were pressure checked by the specialist on the turbo refurb about a month ago, if you recall.

[S70T5Chris]

http://www.enolagaye.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/ThinkDick.jpg

[M-R-P]

I'll be interested to put this car on a rolling road and see what the BHP and WHP actually are, if you recall the guy at BVS said he thinks the car has been mapped but I doubt that very much. I have this thought because a remember someone telling me a story about a certain car that was mapped, ran too lean and the pistons melted (allegedly)..... :shhh:

Anyway, this problem has been around for a while plus the cylinders were pressure checked by the specialist on the turbo refurb about a month ago, if you recall.

The car definitely isn't mapped mate. Although the car has been pressure tested and all is well, I guarantee they didn't test the afr at WOT. I'm not saying that it's definitely running lean but I know what detonation on these engines sounds like all too well and on the video, that's what it sounds like. Prolonged WOT when it's running lean can melt pistons but on a standard car, it'll take longer to do the damage.
another thing about running lean is in certain cases (around 15:1 afr iirc) the engine will produce more torque than normal.
just try to be careful with it until you can confirm what the problem is mate.

[LeeT5]

That sounds like the frightening sound of T5 detonation - I think you should have the AFR checked, she's possibly running lean under full boost.

Really??

I've listened to the video twice with good quality headphones on. That ain't the sound of detonation or 'pinking'.
It actually sounds normal. I can hear James thrashing the life out the engine but other than that, all I can hear is turbo spool up.
Like I said, stop guessing and get it diagnosed properly or I'm getting off this merry go round!

[stribo]

I'll be interested to put this car on a rolling road and see what the BHP and WHP actually are, if you recall the guy at BVS said he thinks the car has been mapped but I doubt that very much. I have this thought because a remember someone telling me a story about a certain car that was mapped, ran too lean and the pistons melted (allegedly)..... :shhh:

Anyway, this problem has been around for a while plus the cylinders were pressure checked by the specialist on the turbo refurb about a month ago, if you recall.

TBF, that wouldn't be a bad idea, as they'll be able to monitor your AFRs

[M-R-P]

Over the turbo sound, there's a high pitched ringing sound. Maybe it's the speakers I was using but it sounded like mine when it was running knackered orange injectors and a crap mbc. I heard it a lot before I was told what it was during a rr day.

I'll have another listen on the big pc, and report back.

[JamesT5]

Really??

I've listened to the video twice with good quality headphones on. That ain't the sound of detonation or 'pinking'.
It actually sounds normal. I can hear James thrashing the life out the engine but other than that, all I can hear is turbo spool up.
Like I said, stop guessing and get it diagnosed properly or I'm getting off this merry go round!

:wave23d:

[JamesT5]

Really??

I've listened to the video twice with good quality headphones on. That ain't the sound of detonation or 'pinking'.
It actually sounds normal. I can hear James thrashing the life out the engine but other than that, all I can hear is turbo spool up.
Like I said, stop guessing and get it diagnosed properly or I'm getting off this merry go round!

I know, it's a performance car so it's not unusual. I suppose you drive your car like a Granny..... :hilarious :haha:

[JamesT5]

http://www.enolagaye.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/ThinkDick.jpg

Your loss, not mine. :whatever: :beammeup:

[JamesT5]

Anyway, getting back on topic......

A thought occurred to me this morning and that is that a wrong fuel to air mixture could be caused by a faulty lambda sensor. I was thinking back to when I was helping Ed (Leeds_Finest) out with his T5 back last year and his car was 'surging' although worse than mine. One of the things that had to be replaced was the front lambda sensor and if you look at the service schedule for most cars, O2 sensors are a service item or at least they were on my Dad's old Skoda VRS.

If the O2 sensor is sending dickey readings to the ECU then the air to fuel ratio could be wrong and the ECU thinks the mixture is too rich. In laymans terms, it then tells the fuel pump to pump less fuel in and perhaps that would explain the feeling that the car is under-fueling.

I still think that 'ringing' or whistle sound is something to do with the problem and at least changing the vacuum lines will either prove they are at fault or rule it out as a cause. No harm in changing them either way.

This car has done wonders for my problem solving skills. :D

[LeeT5]

:wave23d:


I know, it's a performance car so it's not unusual. I suppose you drive your car like a Granny..... :hilarious :haha:


Your loss, not mine. :whatever: :beammeup:

See, they're the kind of immature answers we all expect from you James. You ever stopped to wonder why ppl say the things they say?


Anyway, getting back on topic......

A thought occurred to me this morning and that is that a wrong fuel to air mixture could be caused by a faulty lambda sensor. I was thinking back to when I was helping Ed (Leeds_Finest) out with his T5 back last year and his car was 'surging' although worse than mine. One of the things that had to be replaced was the front lambda sensor and if you look at the service schedule for most cars, O2 sensors are a service item or at least they were on my Dad's old Skoda VRS.

If the O2 sensor is sending dickey readings to the ECU then the air to fuel ratio could be wrong and the ECU thinks the mixture is too rich. In laymans terms, it then tells the fuel pump to pump less fuel in and perhaps that would explain the feeling that the car is under-fueling.

I still think that 'ringing' or whistle sound is something to do with the problem and at least changing the vacuum lines will either prove they are at fault or rule it out as a cause. No harm in changing them either way.

This car has done wonders for my problem solving skills. :D

....and here's another classic! Once again, you love to prove to us all that you haven't got the foggiest idea what your talking about (Utter b@ll@cks) :hilarious

For the record James, The ECU does not tell the fuel pump jack! The fuel pump supplies a pre-determined volume of fuel no matter what the demand. The ECU adjusts fueling by controlling the switching (timing) of the fuel injector solenoids. many other factors are also involved, including Air temp, Throttle position, MAF, coolant temperature etc.......Heck, WTF am I bothering? Cos you all ready know this!! (:rotfl:)

You choose to ignore just about every bit of solid, sound advice given to you and chuck it back in ppl's faces.
Anyway, you crack on and replace all your Vacuum hoses in the vain effort to fix your car and when that doesn't work I'll be interested to know what other b@lox your gonna come out with!

(BTW, when the Volvo specialist reconditioned your turbo, don't you think they would have checked all the vac hoses, being as most will have been disconnected to do the job! - I'm pretty sure they would).

[stribo]

Anyway, getting back on topic......

A thought occurred to me this morning and that is that a wrong fuel to air mixture could be caused by a faulty lambda sensor. I was thinking back to when I was helping Ed (Leeds_Finest) out with his T5 back last year and his car was 'surging' although worse than mine. One of the things that had to be replaced was the front lambda sensor and if you look at the service schedule for most cars, O2 sensors are a service item or at least they were on my Dad's old Skoda VRS.

If the O2 sensor is sending dickey readings to the ECU then the air to fuel ratio could be wrong and the ECU thinks the mixture is too rich. In laymans terms, it then tells the fuel pump to pump less fuel in and perhaps that would explain the feeling that the car is under-fueling.

I still think that 'ringing' or whistle sound is something to do with the problem and at least changing the vacuum lines will either prove they are at fault or rule it out as a cause. No harm in changing them either way.

This car has done wonders for my problem solving skills. :D

It hasn't really, as you haven't solved the problem, you just have a theory.

[JamesT5]

Since I found and subsequently tightened this loose jubilee clip yesterday the car suddenly seems to be running a lot smoother, the throttle response is livelier and the power delivery is smoother . I also replaced a couple of vacuum lines. Coincidence? I don't think so.......... :wink: :beer:

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1010165_zps4fa6650d.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1010165_zps4fa6650d.jpg.html)

[M-R-P]

That's the pcv connection to the inlet. It would explain the noise and poor running - it would be pulling air in through that port if the pipe wasn't tight.

[stribo]

Anyway, getting back on topic......

A thought occurred to me this morning and that is that a wrong fuel to air mixture could be caused by a faulty lambda sensor. I was thinking back to when I was helping Ed (Leeds_Finest) out with his T5 back last year and his car was 'surging' although worse than mine. One of the things that had to be replaced was the front lambda sensor and if you look at the service schedule for most cars, O2 sensors are a service item or at least they were on my Dad's old Skoda VRS.

If the O2 sensor is sending dickey readings to the ECU then the air to fuel ratio could be wrong and the ECU thinks the mixture is too rich. In laymans terms, it then tells the fuel pump to pump less fuel in and perhaps that would explain the feeling that the car is under-fueling.

I still think that 'ringing' or whistle sound is something to do with the problem and at least changing the vacuum lines will either prove they are at fault or rule it out as a cause. No harm in changing them either way.

This car has done wonders for my problem solving skills. :D

So nothing to do with this then? As I said previously, your problem solving skills haven't really improved, but as you won't listen to anyone else (other than maybe MRP), your problem solving skills never will. I found out in my teens, when I knew everything, that I didn't know everything, (I still knew everything though ;) ) The only way anyone can learn is by listening, not by talking, and realise every day's a school day.;)

[JamesT5]

So nothing to do with this then? As I said previously, your problem solving skills haven't really improved, but as you won't listen to anyone else (other than maybe MRP), your problem solving skills never will. I found out in my teens, when I knew everything, that I didn't know everything, (I still knew everything though ;) ) The only way anyone can learn is by listening, not by talking, and realise every day's a school day.;)

I do listen but only to the people who I actually like. If I don't like someone then I won't listen to them regardless of the advice...

And my problem solving skills have improved or else I wouldn't have completed even half the work on the T5 that I have. 2 years ago I was twitchy about picking up a spanner!

[Jimmie]

[QUOTE=JamesT5;719929]I do listen but only to the people who I actually like. If I don't like someone then I won't listen to them regardless of the advice...

QUOTE]

That is a silly comment to make which begs the question why you ask any questions!!
Did you like all your teachers when you were at school?
I didn't but I still listened to them even though they were not liked and I must have always learned something.
Same goes for working for a boss. It pays to "listen and learn"

[JamesT5]

[QUOTE=JamesT5;719929]I do listen but only to the people who I actually like. If I don't like someone then I won't listen to them regardless of the advice...

QUOTE]

That is a silly comment to make which begs the question why you ask any questions!!
Did you like all your teachers when you were at school?
I didn't but I still listened to them even though they were not liked and I must have always learned something.
Same goes for working for a boss. It pays to "listen and learn"

I tell my boss his in the wrong quite often, I don't listen to him because I don't like him.

[M-R-P]

Looking at how James was when he joined the forum, I'd say he's learned a lot, but more than that, his confidence has grown even more.
He's willing to have a go, even if he's likely to have trouble, and tries hard to get around whatever problems he has.
Considering the flaming he's had over some of the things he's had a go at, I'm not surprised that he doesnt always take people's advise, weather he's wrong or not. It's easy to forget that a lot of us have an almost natural ability to tinker with cars, when there's many more who don't.
Spending a lot of time on the VOC forums, there's loads of people who struggle with changing headlight bulbs, let alone droplinks etc.
Sometimes he can be his own worst enemy for it but I give him credit for trying.
James, I'm pleased that you seem to have solved the problem, but nobody had the right answer on this one, there's no need to have the "I told you so" air to your resulting post, it's only gonna provoke a negative response.

[Jimmie]

Looking at how James was when he joined the forum, I'd say he's learned a lot, but more than that, his confidence has grown even more.
He's willing to have a go, even if he's likely to have trouble, and tries hard to get around whatever problems he has.
Considering the flaming he's had over some of the things he's had a go at, I'm not surprised that he doesnt always take people's advise, weather he's wrong or not. It's easy to forget that a lot of us have an almost natural ability to tinker with cars, when there's many more who don't.
Spending a lot of time on the VOC forums, there's loads of people who struggle with changing headlight bulbs, let alone droplinks etc.
Sometimes he can be his own worst enemy for it but I give him credit for trying.
James, I'm pleased that you seem to have solved the problem, but nobody had the right answer on this one, there's no need to have the "I told you so" air to your resulting post, it's only gonna provoke a negative response.

Martin I agree that James has learned a lot since he joined the forum as most people would have thrown in the towel with his car by this time . When he makes a statement and I quote, If I don't like someone then I won't listen to them regardless of the advice....That to me is just arrogant as we are never too old to learn.
He must also have a very lenient boss if he doesn't like him therefore doesn't listen to him, his statement not mine.
If that "is" the case I wonder how would react if he was pulled up on an hse matter, does he listen then?
This is just my take on things in fact James maybe doesn't even like me even though we have never met!lol

[M-R-P]

It's easy to come across the wrong way on forums tho, in person, James isn't as "in yer face" as he can be in his replies. He's actually a nice bloke to chat with.