volvo s80 d5 not starting anymore! !

[tha_cleric]

Hi everybody. My name is Nick and I own a 2005 S80, 2.4 D5 for about 6 months now. I never had any problems with it until a few days ago when a red triangle appeared in the dashboard along with the message ENGINE SYSTEM SERVICE URGENT, and the car went into limp mode with no power and no revs whatsoever. I've stopped the engine and turned it on again and everything came to normal. This happened about 3 times this week. Yesterday morning when I was on my way to work, I was doing 40 mph and suddenly the message and the red triangle appeared again about 4 times in 3 miles. Eventually, the engine stopped exactly in front of my workplace (lucky me) and it didn't wanted to start again. A colleague of mine plugged in an ODB reader and it came with "P0094 Fuel System Leak Detected" fault. According to some volvo forums, the fault may be caused by the fuel filter being blocked. So I've changed straight away. Now, there is fuel in the filter, there is fuel in the feeding pipe but the engine still doesn't wants to start. How can I check if the high pressure pump or the injectors are working? What can be the problem? Anyone experienced something similar? Is it common fault on D5 engines? Thank you!

[pillapow]

Crack one of the injector fuel lines off and see if the fuel is actually reaching the injector?

Try taking off battery for 30 mins to reset things.

Keep cranking the beast! Make sure battery is good too.

Had similair fault on an old 850 T5r, fuel pump would prime, then do nothing else, engine would briefly fire up and cut out, had to bridge the fuel pump relay to keep the pump on constantly.

Someone with better knowledge will be along to help you out im sure :welcome:

[Plodmonkey]

Welcome to the club hope you get sorted soon.

[tha_cleric]

Thank you so much for your reply! I have loosen one of the injectors and I've kept cranking it up but the is no fuel coming... Can it be the high pressure pomp sensor?

[tha_cleric]

Crack one of the injector fuel lines off and see if the fuel is actually reaching the injector?

Try taking off battery for 30 mins to reset things.

Keep cranking the beast! Make sure battery is good too.

Had similair fault on an old 850 T5r, fuel pump would prime, then do nothing else, engine would briefly fire up and cut out, had to bridge the fuel pump relay to keep the pump on constantly.

Someone with better knowledge will be along to help you out im sure :welcome:

And one more thing... if I disconnect the battery, where can I find the code for the audio system afterwards? Thank you!

[stribo]

And one more thing... if I disconnect the battery, where can I find the code for the audio system afterwards? Thank you!

If it's like the S60, there is no code.

[graemewelch]

Double check the fuel filter is full. If no fill it up and try angain

[tha_cleric]

If it's like the S60, there is no code.
It is a S80. Hopefully it's the same. Thank you.

[tha_cleric]

Double check the fuel filter is full. If no fill it up and try angain
When I've changed the fuel filter, I had no diesel to pour in so I had to put it back dry. I have cranked the car a lot and then I've checked the fuel filter again. And it was full....

[Plodmonkey]

Had my fuel filter done yesterday and it took about 15mins to get it started but hopefully it gets going soon

[tha_cleric]

Had my fuel filter done yesterday and it took about 15mins to get it started but hopefully it gets going soon
Thank you mate. I've tried a lot to start it but it doesn't wants to.... The thing is I have very limited resources to check the fault. I work for Audi, you see....and we have everything we need to sort out Audi cars, but when it comes to Volvos, I'm just like my 3 weeks old son... I love my car and I wouldn't change Volvo with anything in the world...but I'm a little bit concerned about this situation...

[850 T5s]

try spaying a bit of easy start in the intake pipe to get it going, some of these new cars can be a pain to get started after the fuel filter has been changed

[tha_cleric]

try spaying a bit of easy start in the intake pipe to get it going, some of these new cars can be a pain to get started after the fuel filter has been changed
Thank you for your reply. I've tried that as well. The car it's running on easy start for a few seconds and then it dies again. I don't know what to say.... :(

[jamesy12345]

With the dry filter going in it might have introduced an air lock into the diesel lines to the injectors. But that doesn't explain why the code came up in the first place unless the filter was well overdue

If these cars have a lift pump in the tank maybe you can run that to prime the lines...just a thought never tried it

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/archive/index.php/t-144870.html

Is the tank almost empty...?

[tha_cleric]

With the dry filter going in it might have introduced an air lock into the diesel lines to the injectors. But that doesn't explain why the code came up in the first place unless the filter was well overdue

If these cars have a lift pump in the tank maybe you can run that to prime the lines...just a thought never tried it

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/archive/index.php/t-144870.html

Is the tank almost empty...?
I'm pretty sure the fuel filter wasn't changed for a long time, cuz it was soggy and extremely dirty. The fuel tank is 3/4 full, so there is plenty of diesel in it. The thing is, the guy who had the car before me, was a farmer. And he told me that he used red diesel (generator diesel) a few times. Could this be the problem? But I mean, I've had the car for more than 6 moths now and this issue only appeared now. And another thing....I can't hear the pomp at all when I'm turning the ignition on... which one should make a sound, the in tank one or the high pressure one? Thank you.

[jamesy12345]

I'm pretty sure the fuel filter wasn't changed for a long time, cuz it was soggy and extremely dirty. The fuel tank is 3/4 full, so there is plenty of diesel in it. The thing is, the guy who had the car before me, was a farmer. And he told me that he used red diesel (generator diesel) a few times. Could this be the problem? But I mean, I've had the car for more than 6 moths now and this issue only appeared now. And another thing....I can't hear the pomp at all when I'm turning the ignition on... which one should make a sound, the in tank one or the high pressure one? Thank you.

Is it a Euro 3 or a Euro 4 fella? Euro 3 has black engine cover. Don't think the red diesel would have hurt it as far as I know

[tha_cleric]

Is it a Euro 3 or a Euro 4 fella? Euro 3 has black engine cover. Don't think the red diesel would have hurt it as far as I know
it is a 2005 plate but it has black engine cover... so I quite don't know which euro is it...

[Plodmonkey]

It's the non dpf engine euro 3

[tha_cleric]

It's the non dpf engine euro 3
Can you be more specific mate? Sorry but I quite don't know what that means... :)

[tha_cleric]

The question is, besides disconnecting the battery for half an hour, what exactly do I need to check if it's working properly and how? Any help would be much appreciated! Thank you!

[jamesy12345]

As Plodmonkey says above it's the Euro 3 engine, without the Diesel Particulate Filter. Euro 3 is an emissions standard. I was just trying to work out if it had an in-tank/low pressure pump, which I believe it does

So the electric pump in the tank should be priming the lines when you turn the ignition on....but if there is an air lock then the pressure might not be enough to force the diesel through.

If it was my car I would....

*check the diesel level (as you have)
*make sure the fuel filter was full (as you have)
*confirm the low pressure pump is working as it should, not hearing a noise doesn't mean it's knackered but would be good to confirm this
*crank it over a good few times, make sure the battery has good charge! The link below says 5 secs at a time but I doubt this would do it

http://www.justanswer.com/uk-car/3uvuw-hi-i-think-i-ve-litle-bit-air-fuel-system.html

Beyond that fella it sounds like you need someone to come and take a look

[tha_cleric]

As Plodmonkey says above it's the Euro 3 engine, without the Diesel Particulate Filter. Euro 3 is an emissions standard. I was just trying to work out if it had an in-tank/low pressure pump, which I believe it does

So the electric pump in the tank should be priming the lines when you turn the ignition on....but if there is an air lock then the pressure might not be enough to force the diesel through.

If it was my car I would....

*check the diesel level (as you have)
*make sure the fuel filter was full (as you have)
*confirm the low pressure pump is working as it should, not hearing a noise doesn't mean it's knackered but would be good to confirm this
*crank it over a good few times, make sure the battery has good charge! The link below says 5 secs at a time but I doubt this would do it

http://www.justanswer.com/uk-car/3uvuw-hi-i-think-i-ve-litle-bit-air-fuel-system.html

Beyond that fella it sounds like you need someone to come and take a look
Thank you so much for that! I'll definitely gonna try that tomorrow and I'm keep you guys posted!

[jamesy12345]

Thank you so much for that! I'll definitely gonna try that tomorrow and I'm keep you guys posted!

try it out mate just some ideas, no expert me :) like I said if it was my car that's what I'd do

[tha_cleric]

try it out mate just some ideas, no expert me :) like I said if it was my car that's what I'd do
I'm also gonna try to use a manual pump on the fuel circuit.... maybe there's air on it... I donno... will see tomorrow.

[jamesy12345]

I'm also gonna try to use a manual pump on the fuel circuit.... maybe there's air on it... I donno... will see tomorrow.

Good idea mate - if you have the gear to do that, and it is an airlock, then that should be a big help

[pillapow]

have you removed the outlet on the fuel filter, priming the fuel pump?

you say the diesel isnt reaching the injectors so you need to check every point from the injector line to the fuel tank and see where the fault is, shouldnt be too hard to establish why there is no diesel coming through.

[tha_cleric]

Good idea mate - if you have the gear to do that, and it is an airlock, then that should be a big help
I will let you know tomorrow evening if I'll manage to sort it or not...

[tha_cleric]

have you removed the outlet on the fuel filter, priming the fuel pump?

you say the diesel isnt reaching the injectors so you need to check every point from the injector line to the fuel tank and see where the fault is, shouldnt be too hard to establish why there is no diesel coming through.
I will try it tomorrow. Thank you for that!

[tha_cleric]

Updates to my problem... I've took the car to the dealership, they've checked it and they told me it's definitely the in tank low pressure pump.... 600 quid to change it and the car will work. That was Tuesday.... I've asked them 4 times if they are 100% sure that's the problem. They've told me yes...and I've authorised them to change it. Well, they've changed it, and yesterday they rang me and told me that it's not only the pump and it might be the injectors. They also said that they have a spare set of injectors and they gonna try them today. Will see what happens..

[jamesy12345]

Updates to my problem... I've took the car to the dealership, they've checked it and they told me it's definitely the in tank low pressure pump.... 600 quid to change it and the car will work. That was Tuesday.... I've asked them 4 times if they are 100% sure that's the problem. They've told me yes...and I've authorised them to change it. Well, they've changed it, and yesterday they rang me and told me that it's not only the pump and it might be the injectors. They also said that they have a spare set of injectors and they gonna try them today. Will see what happens..

seems a bit unlikely, pump AND injectors at the same time......are they sure the pump was really knackered....?

[tha_cleric]

seems a bit unlikely, pump AND injectors at the same time......are they sure the pump was really knackered....?
I've asked them 4 TIMES!! And that's what they've told me... They've said they've checked the whole fuel system and the only problem is the low pressure pump. The thing is...I can't afford to change the injectors as well... it's too much for my low budget. ..

[jamesy12345]

I've asked them 4 TIMES!! And that's what they've told me... They've said they've checked the whole fuel system and the only problem is the low pressure pump. The thing is...I can't afford to change the injectors as well... it's too much for my low budget. ..

I knew the early S80 diesels have some problems with their injectors but didn't think that extended to 2005...hope you get sorted and they aren't just guessing! Did changig the pump make any improvement at all?

[M-R-P]

Ask them exactly what's wrong with the injectors - if they say they're leaking, all they need is removing, rubbing down with emery paper and new o-ring seals fitting. I did one on my mate's old D5 and it was an easy job.

[graemewelch]

I would tell them your not paying the 600 quid and you want the old pump fitting. Get the car out of there and get it to a diesel specialist.

[tha_cleric]

Update!! I have a brand new in tank pomp fitted on my car and I have ordered injectors and a high pressure pump as well. They gonna arrive in tuesday. I would like to change them myself to save some money. My question is, beside the injectors and the pump, do I need to buy some kind of seals as well?? And is there any scheme to follow in order to fit them? Or there is only one way to put them on the car? Cuz I don't wanna make any mistakes, yiu know.... Any suggestions please?? Thank you a lot! !

[graemewelch]

The injectors are easy. Im.unsure if there coded though. Hp pump involves removing the cambelt but theres no timing on the pump

[jamesy12345]

Update!! I have a brand new in tank pomp fitted on my car and I have ordered injectors and a high pressure pump as well. They gonna arrive in tuesday. I would like to change them myself to save some money. My question is, beside the injectors and the pump, do I need to buy some kind of seals as well?? And is there any scheme to follow in order to fit them? Or there is only one way to put them on the car? Cuz I don't wanna make any mistakes, yiu know.... Any suggestions please?? Thank you a lot! !

!! turned into a bigger job than expected, did they diagnose all these parts needed changing out? I can't see any decent write ups for swapping the HP pump on the net....maybe Haynes manual will give at least some guidance (or maybe it will say see the dealer...)

[tha_cleric]

!! turned into a bigger job than expected, did they diagnose all these parts needed changing out? I can't see any decent write ups for swapping the HP pump on the net....maybe Haynes manual will give at least some guidance (or maybe it will say see the dealer...)
Yeah...well, I'll try to change them myself... I know how to change the injectors, but I'm a little concerned about the hp pump... But hopefully, it's gonna need only new injectors, and I will send the pump back for a full refund.

[graemewelch]

sounds like a very expensive way to fix your car, me personaly i would of had it diagnosed correctly by a diesel specialist. clearly the garage youve been using dont have a clue.

[tha_cleric]

sounds like a very expensive way to fix your car, me personaly i would of had it diagnosed correctly by a diesel specialist. clearly the garage youve been using dont have a clue.
Well...it's the last thing I'm gonna do for it... And if is not going to work after this, I will set it on fire! :)

[Harvey]

Have heard when the high-pressure pump goes it can send filings down to the injectors.

[graemewelch]

Have heard when the high-pressure pump goes it can send filings down to the injectors.


Yes your correct. The best thing to do is get a sample of the diesel tested. If it dose have fragments of steel itvwill require a new tank and fuel lines.

[tha_cleric]

Hi everybody! Right...I've unscrewed one on the injectors pipe out and I've cranked the car a couple of times. And there was fuel coming out of the pipe. I'm assuming the high pressure pump it's fine, isn't it? Then I've took the old injectors out in order to clean the whole housing for the new injectors. 3 of them were relatively clean but 2 of them were black and muddy and there was this black, waxy liquid coming out of them, that looks like the one I found in the fuel filter. Is it possible to be oil?? And how did it get there?? I've checked the oil level and it's fine and I have no oil leaks or something like that... Anyone has got any idea what's that?? Thank you.

[jamesy12345]

Be careful there fella that stuff is high pressure

Might be from old fuel in the tank...diesel that has sat around for a while is darker in colour

http://www.diesel-fuels.com/bad-diesel-fuel.php

Was there any improvement in the situation when you replaced the LP pump? If no, and you are sure the problem is the injectors, then they can be cleaned either by a specialist or DIY assuming they are not too worn

But if you aren't sure what the problem is, as GW says above might be a good idea to get someone to look at it

[tha_cleric]

Be careful there fella that stuff is high pressure

Might be from old fuel in the tank...diesel that has sat around for a while is darker in colour

http://www.diesel-fuels.com/bad-diesel-fuel.php

Was there any improvement in the situation when you replaced the LP pump? If no, and you are sure the problem is the injectors, then they can be cleaned either by a specialist or DIY assuming they are not too worn

But if you aren't sure what the problem is, as GW says above might be a good idea to get someone to look at it
Well, like I said in a earlier thread, my car was diagnosed by volvo dealership nottingham. I've changed the LP pump, you can hear it working now, but the car still doesn't want to start. And the guys from volvo told me I need to change the injectors. So, LP pump - brand new, fuel filter - changed, HP pump tested this morning, I will change the injectors as well and if it still not going to start, I'll give up...

[tha_cleric]

Anyone knows where can I buy the bolts that keeps the injector in its place? And also...does the injectors that I've bought needs to be reprogrammed? The seller said no....but I could use other opinion as well... Thank you!

[graemewelch]

You should realy fit new steel pipes to. Are the injectors youve bought new as in un used new. How have you tested the hp pump. I wouldnt take that dealers word for it. The chance of lift pump and all 5 injectors failing at the same time must be a millon to one. As ive said earlier. You need to get it diagnosed properly. Chucking money at it isnt going to help. Its just going to make you skint. For all you know it could be a faulty sensor on the hp pump or on the rail.

[tha_cleric]

You should realy fit new steel pipes to. Are the injectors youve bought new as in un used new. How have you tested the hp pump. I wouldnt take that dealers word for it. The chance of lift pump and all 5 injectors failing at the same time must be a millon to one. As ive said earlier. You need to get it diagnosed properly. Chucking money at it isnt going to help. Its just going to make you skint. For all you know it could be a faulty sensor on the hp pump or on the rail.
Thank you for your reply. The injectors that I've bought are used but in good working condition and they've come with 3 months warranty. And about the HP pump, this morning, just before I've took the injectors out, I've disconnected one of the steel pipe from one of the injectors and I've cranked the car a couple of time. And there was fuel coming out of the pipe. And I'm assuming if the pump would have been faulty, there wouldn't be fuel coming out at all, would be?

[jamesy12345]

Thank you for your reply. The injectors that I've bought are used but in good working condition and they've come with 3 months warranty. And about the HP pump, this morning, just before I've took the injectors out, I've disconnected one of the steel pipe from one of the injectors and I've cranked the car a couple of time. And there was fuel coming out of the pipe. And I'm assuming if the pump would have been faulty, there wouldn't be fuel coming out at all, would be?

Fuel coming out the pipes is a good sign but not really a confirmation that the pump is working 100% correct. Remember the pressure is massive on these things, and timing must be ££££ on too. You're obviously intent on doing this yourself, hope you get sorted

Changing injectors video below:

"What's this? It's got a good beat..":funkybana


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve1M8l395IU

edit

forgot to add better to use gloves! And check the surface of the head (which the injector seals to) is clean

[tha_cleric]

Fuel coming out the pipes is a good sign but not really a confirmation that the pump is working 100% correct. Remember the pressure is massive on these things, and timing must be ££££ on too. You're obviously intent on doing this yourself, hope you get sorted

Changing injectors video below:

"What's this? It's got a good beat..":funkybana


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve1M8l395IU

edit

forgot to add better to use gloves! And check the surface of the head (which the injector seals to) is clean
Thanks for your reply. I've cleaned the whole area with a rug and some carburettor cleaner. Should I spray some carburettor cleaner inside the holes where the injectors goes in?

[stribo]

Fuel coming out the pipes is a good sign but not really a confirmation that the pump is working 100% correct. Remember the pressure is massive on these things, and timing must be ££££ on too. You're obviously intent on doing this yourself, hope you get sorted

Changing injectors video below:

"What's this? It's got a good beat..":funkybana


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve1M8l395IU

edit

forgot to add better to use gloves! And check the surface of the head (which the injector seals to) is clean

Timing is not important on a common rail diesel, as it's controlled by the ECU, and not the pump.

[graemewelch]

I can tell you 100% that you havnt comfirmed that the pump has failed. You realy do need to get the car checked out. This is what i think will happen. Youll fit the injectors. The car wont start still. Youll then realise how much money youve wasted. I would of removed all 5 injectors and took them to be tested along with a fuel sample. Theres to many electrics on a modern diesel.

[850 T5s]

this might seem a silly question but have you checked the fuses ?

[jamesy12345]

Timing is not important on a common rail diesel, as it's controlled by the ECU, and not the pump.

shows what I know! Didn't know that. But anyway just trying to say pump might not be 100% even if fuel coming out.....although it is a good sign :)

[tha_cleric]

this might seem a silly question but have you checked the fuses ?
Yes mate... I've checked all of them...

[tha_cleric]

Right...I've took the hp pump off as well and now I'm waiting for the new parts to arrive. Hopefully, I will be able to put them on this afternoon.

[jamesy12345]

Right...I've took the hp pump off as well and now I'm waiting for the new parts to arrive. Hopefully, I will be able to put them on this afternoon.

good luck, hope it sorts it

[tha_cleric]

good luck, hope it sorts it
Thanks buddy! Hopefully it's gonna be alright...

[LeeT5]

The only way that car is going to inject diesel is if the fuel pressure sensor on the end of the fuel rails see's 280-300 bar. If it doesn't, then the ECU will not switch the injectors, the Air lock (if you have one) will remain and No fuel will enter the combustion chamber.

Once you have assembled the parts on the engine you will need to evacuate any air from the low pressure side. Make sure you fit new injector pipes and seals otherwise you may as well not bother.
On HP diesels you never just 'crack off' a fuel pipe to check for fuel. Not only is that a safety issue but it can also score the fuel pipe/injectors seals and most probably induce a fuel leak, use live readings or a multimeter.

If the car had started then you could of had high pressure fuel penetrate your skin or in your eyes! 300bar is over 4300psi...and that's just on crank/idle. When you rev the fuel pressure increases and your rail pressure typically can reach 1600bar on full chat.
You are going to need to plug in and get live readings on crank, otherwise your wasting your time. You can check fuel rail pressure using a multimeter too at the Fuel rail sensor.

The fact that you can hear the low pressure pump is a good thing but it doesn't mean the car should start.

Incidentally, "P0094 Fuel System Leak Detected" is a very common fault code across ALL high pressure common rails engines, not just Volvo D5's. I see it a lot at the side of the road in my job and most of the time it's due to a blocked fuel filter. This causes a vacuum on the high pressure side because the supply cannot meet the demand and so the Fuel pressure sensor senses low pressure and the Fuel EMS logs a DTC, enters 'limp mode', losses power or cuts out completely.

If you don't have a full understanding of how Common rail works then you should of really got someone else to work on your car.

As Graeme says, chucking money at it won't fix it. Most likely your High pressure pump is ok as are your injectors, but now you've been messing about with it, pulling parts off, undoing injector pipes etc, you've probably induced other faults. Likely hood is, you just needed a new fuel filter!

Red Diesel will not harm your engine. Its the same as normal diesel just with a coloured dye to make it red.