High idle and loss of power.. Suggestions?

[pillapow]

Evening all, My T5 has recently developed a strange fault, It initially idled perfectly at 850rpm and performed superbly.

Few days ago, once warm, it idled at 900rpm and it feels like 150hp rather than 300hp.

Now, its got progressively worse, it is idling (once warm) at 1000rpm and the performance is even less.

Its sluggish, it feels strangled and held back, the exhaust is more boomy and sounds like a Fiat Punto 1.2 with a Big bore, it feels like there is no boost.

I have also noticed, when planting the throttle and getting nowhere fast, upon letting off the throttle for a gear change i can hear what sounds like a slow dump valve letting off pressure, (not a quick "psst", but a long "pssssshhhhhhhhh" this noise has only started happening since this fault occured.

Im stumped because since owning it up until a few days ago it has been excellent.

I've OBD2'd it and its giving me nothing.

Over the last few days, the idle has been progressively increasing and the performance decreasing, have had a look round the web and cant find anything similair, obviously the two symptoms are connected.

Thanks for your help guys. I knew the ME7 was a little troublesome but the comfort of the P2 option outweighed the prospect of a P1 with throttle cable.

[JamesT5]

The 'pssssssh' sound you describe sounds like a boost pipe that has worked its way partially off. Check the I/C to ETM pipe and the connections on the charge pipe at both ends. Failing that it could be a vacuum leak so check your vacuum hoses.

[Jamest5r]

You got a split /loose pipe somewhere

[JamesT5]

Further thought, the high idle could be due to the ECU not getting the right readings or confusing ones because unmetered air is getting in, that's my logic anyway.

[M-R-P]

As above, you have a big air leak mate, check all the big pipes (even the maf to turbo pipe)

[pillapow]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I have just been and picked up a set of car ramps so i will be able to pull it apart tomorrow, I couldnt do much as my trolley jack split a seal! I'll check all the pipework and connections, boost pipes and intercooler etc. Cheers.

[LeeT5]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I have just been and picked up a set of car ramps so i will be able to pull it apart tomorrow, I couldnt do much as my trolley jack split a seal! I'll check all the pipework and connections, boost pipes and intercooler etc. Cheers.

You don't need ramps. All of the pipes are accessible from under the bonnet.

What car? S60 T5?

[merc85]

maybe worth checking the exhaust system, could be a Partially blocked cat or silencer.

[pillapow]

You don't need ramps. All of the pipes are accessible from under the bonnet.

What car? S60 T5?

Its an X reg V70.


maybe worth checking the exhaust system, could be a Partially blocked cat or silencer.

The exhaust is 6 months old, it is a custom system with 200 cell cat.

[M-R-P]

Its an X reg V70.


Still, all but one pipe is accessible from above mate.

[pillapow]

Still, all but one pipe is accessible from above mate.

ok fair enough, i'll keep it grounded!

[pillapow]

Couldnt work on the car today due to the weather but i did about 20 mile in it food shopping etc..

Few more surprises, pulled the maf plug when engine was warm, engine struggled for a few seconds and cut out, replaced plug and read codes, gave a p0121, idle was very lumpy after that for a minute or so but when revving, it sounded good, then it idled at 1500rpm for about 2 mins, then settled down, back to 950rpm and sounded boomy and crap when revving, scanned codes, nothing showing. Its all noise and no get up and go at the moment.

I checked the vac line from manifold to brake servo, quite a new pipe and no signs of splitting or wear. Sprayed some WD40 around the turbo and intercooler pipes, no change in engine sound.

Revving is laboured and laggy, not responsive like it used to be.

[JamesT5]

Couldnt work on the car today due to the weather but i did about 20 mile in it food shopping etc..

Few more surprises, pulled the maf plug when engine was warm, engine struggled for a few seconds and cut out, replaced plug and read codes, gave a p0121, idle was very lumpy after that for a minute or so but when revving, it sounded good, then it idled at 1500rpm for about 2 mins, then settled down, back to 950rpm and sounded boomy and crap when revving, scanned codes, nothing showing. Its all noise and no get up and go at the moment.

I checked the vac line from manifold to brake servo, quite a new pipe and no signs of splitting or wear. Sprayed some WD40 around the turbo and intercooler pipes, no change in engine sound.

Revving is laboured and laggy, not responsive like it used to be.

P0121? That's 'Throttle Position Sensor "A" Circuit Range/Performance' which basically translated means "you've got an upset Throttle Body". I got that code last week when my ETM to Intercooler Pipe was loose so I'd check there first for splits, or pipes loose at either end.

Let me know how you get on mate. :B_thumb:

[M-R-P]

P0121? That's 'Throttle Position Sensor "A" Circuit Range/Performance' which basically translated means "you've got an upset Throttle Body". I got that code last week when my ETM to Intercooler Pipe was loose so I'd check there first for splits, or pipes loose at either end.

Let me know how you get on mate. :B_thumb:

That code also pops up if the maf isn't getting good airflow. I'd start with the inlet pipe from the maf to the turbo, it's probably split or come off the compressor housing.

[graemewelch]

when i read boomy the turbo is the first thing i thought of. if the turbo isnt spinning it wont kill the sound and ill go loud. mind you im probobly miles off what is wrong.

[pillapow]

That code also pops up if the maf isn't getting good airflow. I'd start with the inlet pipe from the maf to the turbo, it's probably split or come off the compressor housing.

There was no codes before i pulled the maf connector, only after i had pulled it did it give the p0121, after all had settled etc and a ignition cycle, rescan and no code, i assumed the removal of the maf connector caused this code to show up.

Sorry, i also forgot to mention earlier, when the car eventually decides to idle at 1000rpm when warm, if i rev while stationary to say 2000rpm, 3000rpm or even 4000rpm, the engine will come down from the rev as normal but when it gets to 1500rpm, it sort of revs ever so slightly whilst on its way down to the 1000rpm idle.

Sorry if i sound confusing, i can video record what its doing if needed.

Thanks for the help.

[JamesT5]

MAF sensors don't always show up on a code reader unfortunately mate. Sometimes a session on Vida will tell you more and this will cot about £45 if you don't have the setup at home.

[graemewelch]

There was no codes before i pulled the maf connector, only after i had pulled it did it give the p0121, after all had settled etc and a ignition cycle, rescan and no code, i assumed the removal of the maf connector caused this code to show up.

Sorry, i also forgot to mention earlier, when the car eventually decides to idle at 1000rpm when warm, if i rev while stationary to say 2000rpm, 3000rpm or even 4000rpm, the engine will come down from the rev as normal but when it gets to 1500rpm, it sort of revs ever so slightly whilst on its way down to the 1000rpm idle.

Sorry if i sound confusing, i can video record what its doing if needed.

Thanks for the help.


A video would be great help. Wear abouts are you

[pillapow]

MAF sensors don't always show up on a code reader unfortunately mate. Sometimes a session on Vida will tell you more and this will cot about £45 if you don't have the setup at home.

Would one of those Vida modules with the software disc do the job, they are £60-80 online, there is a volvo specialist near me but £50 for a diagnosis seems a bit steep especially if i can do it myself with one of those units.


A video would be great help. Wear abouts are you

I'll get a video tomorrow of what its doing and post it, I am in Lancashire.

[graemewelch]

Would one of those Vida modules with the software disc do the job, they are £60-80 online, there is a volvo specialist near me but £50 for a diagnosis seems a bit steep especially if i can do it myself with one of those units.



I'll get a video tomorrow of what its doing and post it, I am in Lancashire.

miles away from me so im not much help. judging by what your discribing i very much doubt its the maf. how dose the car rev underload. ie on the road. if theres no fault codes except for when you disconected the maf id say your looking at a mechanical issue but the generic code readers arnt always the best for picking up all codes. id check everything you can thats easy and free. is your turbo healthy. all boost pipes in good condition. youd prob get a code if one blew off. i did on mine. is there a blockage in the exhaust somewear. i once had a issue like that on a astra. it sounded like it was hissing when reved. once i loosened the bolts on the manifold to exhaust it reved normaly. these are just suggestions and i could be miles away. its hard to diagnose issues with out having the car infront of me. wrap up warm tomora and get stuck into it

[pillapow]

miles away from me so im not much help. judging by what your discribing i very much doubt its the maf. how dose the car rev underload. ie on the road. if theres no fault codes except for when you disconected the maf id say your looking at a mechanical issue but the generic code readers arnt always the best for picking up all codes. id check everything you can thats easy and free. is your turbo healthy. all boost pipes in good condition. youd prob get a code if one blew off. i did on mine. is there a blockage in the exhaust somewear. i once had a issue like that on a astra. it sounded like it was hissing when reved. once i loosened the bolts on the manifold to exhaust it reved normaly. these are just suggestions and i could be miles away. its hard to diagnose issues with out having the car infront of me. wrap up warm tomora and get stuck into it

Under load when fully warm it feels like there is the tiniest amount of boost, the "kick" isnt there anymore, normally, at about 25% throttle it will start to boost at 1800rpm and will start to pull there, then theres the hard kick at around 3500rpm, all of that is completely gone, its just one laggy powerband now with nothing of note, the exhaust is pretty much brand new, its a custom system with 200 cell cat. If weather is ok tomorrow, I'll get into it, I want to remove the intercooler aswell to inspect it, would the easiest way be to remove the slam panel?

[graemewelch]

if the intercooler is shot youll noticed its bowed and is oily at the bottom. very hard to miss. its a bumper off job to remove the intercooler. my first job would be checking all the accessable parts.

[pillapow]

Evening folks, spent 6 hours on the motor today, removed all boost pipes, removed etm, checked everything, checked all vacuum lines, pretty much gave it a good going over, cleaned and refitted the etm, (could do with a new gasket tbh, will do that asap. Cleaned all mating surfaces etc and put everything back together, tried to remove intercooler, got rad loose etc, fan out and realised its connected to the air con pipes, so didnt go further than that.

3 things i noticed, one was some carbon/oily residue around the outside of the turbo, same with the etm to intercooler joint at the intercooler side, lastly, i think this is the map sensor/ unsure? the one pictured, there is a split in the housing and there was some sort of putty around it, i removed the putty to investigate. I have taken pictures of what i thought could be the culprit for my problems.

Didnt manage to get a video of the idle as i started on it early and didnt want to be working on a hot engine.

After refitting etc, double checking everything was secure and connected, car fired up fine, ran brilliant, gave me full power, did some hard runs, felt like the problem had re-appeared albeit not as bad.. Let the car cool for two hours as i was replacing brakes on a fiesta for a family member, (oh how easy) lol.

Fired it up, drove home, plenty of kick, feels like full power. So again, its got me stumped.

Its definitely running better however its still raising the idle to 1000rpm when the engine is fully warmed up, seems to run better when the engine is cooler.

Any suggestions guys? Thanks in advance. (Here are the pics)

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[Harvey]

Just looking at the turbo compressor wheel there looks like a dull area where the blades line up to the outer housing, have you checked if there's any play in the turboshaft as it looks like it could be rubbing the outer housing ?.

[M-R-P]

That's not the MAP sensor, that's the PTC nipple and nothing to worry about in this instance.
The sticky tar around the connection to the intercooler is a sign of a boost leak at some point.
I wonder if the actuator needs looking-at, it looks like a well used turbo so the actuator should really be checked.

At least you've made some progress :)

[pillapow]

Evening fellas, how you all doing.

Have realised something what the car is doing, i think it could be whats causing the loss of power.

Just to recap first, when the engine is cold, in the mornings for instance, its lively, it sounds good (and even though i dont use the boost while cold, i have been doing so slightly to see if this fault is happening whilst cold)

It drives perfect when cold, now when it gets upto temp, right upto temp, it starts idling high, its at 1000rpm now idling when warm, 800-850rpm when cold.

When cold, on initial startup, the cold start mechanism works fine, then i can hear a relay click and the idle drops to normal (850rpm)

What i noticed today, when the engine is hot, is upon startup, the car starts, approx 1200rpm, revs drop as normal and then i hear the "click", engine idles at 800rpm which is what it used to do and which is normal, however, approx 2 seconds later, (only when the engine is warm) it "clicks" again, which takes the idle to 1000rpm and it stays there, then the poor throttle response and the boomy exhaust ensues.

It doesnt do this when cold, so i am assuming there is a fault with a fuel relay of some sort which is giving it a rich mix when the engine is hot, also i noticed my fan stayed on for 30 seconds today too after stopping the engine and my consumption is poor, which all points to a rich mix.

This is what i think is wrong with it but i dont know how to go about rectifying the issue, On my previous T-5R, i had a fuel pump relay fault and had to bridge it, so i am assuming maybe another faulty relay or faulty sensor?

I have attached a video of a hot start and if you listen closely you can hear the initial click and then the second click.

Hope this is clear enough for you guys, hope i can get this fault fixed, had the chance to put a Masseratti to shame yesterday and had to refrain, haha. Thanks guys.

PS: Also note the little rev at 1500rpm on the comedown, it does this on its own (only on a hot engine)



http://youtu.be/g-jSYI-e8yY

[M-R-P]

I'm now thinking the temp sensor might be wonky....
If that's sending the wrong signals, the car will be overfueling in an effort to warm things up.

Your revs (from cold) should go to 1000-1200 revs straight away and over about 5 minutes, drop, in stages, to about 650-700 rpm.

When warm, it should go straight to 850 (ish) and drop to 650-700 quite quickly.

[pillapow]

I'm now thinking the temp sensor might be wonky....
If that's sending the wrong signals, the car will be overfueling in an effort to warm things up.

Your revs (from cold) should go to 1000-1200 revs straight away and over about 5 minutes, drop, in stages, to about 650-700 rpm.

When warm, it should go straight to 850 (ish) and drop to 650-700 quite quickly.

It is the temp sensor, did a ten minute run this morning, once warm car was immediately running like crap, boomy and nasty. Shut it off, unplugged the temp sensor next to the T-stat, started her up, revs were a little high but they soon settled to 900rpm (without any clicking)! they settled naturally, instantly i knew it was working ok as there was no boominess when revving, i wasnt expecting what came next though.

Ever heard a Supra twin turbo on full boost, yes, theres one under my bonnet i think, my god, its immense.
The boost is unreal, its a monster, i thought it was fast before but you couldnt hear the boost, just felt the pull, I replugged the temp sensor back in whilst running the car and did another run, still the same, so shut her off as my tyres were losing tread like a cheap pair of trainers, haha, Hope its ok when i restart.

What do you think M-R-P? A new coolant sensor and take battery off for half hour? Let things reset?

Many thanks. :)

[M-R-P]

Make sure the engine's been off for about half an hour, then pull the negative lead. Leave it at least an hour, then with the key in position 2, reconnect the negative in one hit - don't let it spark as you could annoy something electrical.

Deffo go for a new sensor :)

[pillapow]

Make sure the engine's been off for about half an hour, then pull the negative lead. Leave it at least an hour, then with the key in position 2, reconnect the negative in one hit - don't let it spark as you could annoy something electrical.

Deffo go for a new sensor :)

Im about to do that now re: leave battery off for an hour.

Seems that my temp sensor has failed altogether now, with it connected, the temp gauge doesnt even move, this has only occured after todays fiddling, im going to trace the wire on it and see if there is any kind of break of fraying.

Furthermore, the fan wants to stay on for a while when shutting off the engine now and runs constantly when engine is running, i have disconnected the fan power lead on top of the rad as my battery isnt too good.

Engine isnt getting overly hot, slam panel is cool and just a slight amount of pressure when loosening the rad cap, just a tiny quick "hiss" when doing so.

Do you think it will be ok to run it like this until i get a new coolant sensor? Im afraid of the boost level being too high?

Cheers.

[M-R-P]

Can't help much with the boost I'm afraid (unless you live down south and I can do some live logging on the thing)

The fan running is normal when something's not right, just don't sit in stationary traffic with the fan unplugged.

It's possible that the ECU has given up on the sensor after you unplugged it with the engine running and won't accept it being reconnected. Resetting the ecu might fix that "might".

Are you sure you have the right temp sensor? I believe there's 2 or more.

[M-R-P]

Looks like there's only one... (unless there's only one you can buy from eurocarparts)

[graemewelch]

i wouldnt even disconnect the battery. only ever do it when removing seats with airbags otherwise i just crack on. hope it is the sensor.

[pillapow]

No, im in the northwest, the car was mapped by kalmar union 6 months ago, unsure what settings/boost pressure he runs, its a claimed 300hp so obviously a bit more than stock.

The sensor is a genuine Volvo one, there is some breakage in one of the wires that parts from the alternator wire, that leads upto the sensor connector, the copper cable is intact but it is exposed a bit.

I read somewhere there was two, a coolant temp sensor and an engine temp sensor but looking around there only seems to be one type, So when its plugged in, car runs horrible, unplug it and the car flies, but having it unplugged causes me to lose the temp gauge and fan wants to run, I have removed the ground wire from the battery and will see what its like in half hour, see if the sensor comes alive again or if its still the same.

Thanks guys.

[deathrider311271]

the temp sensor on the ME7 models does more than you think, it talks to the MAF, Lambda, ECU and measures the temp obviously. The temp sensor partially controls fueling ie cold to hot so needs to be working correctly. If this sensor isnt working properly it goes into a safe mode limits the boost. So looks like you have found the problem. Also on a side note are you running a gen Bosch MAF sensor?

[M-R-P]

If it's mapped with no other mods then it won't be anywhere near 300bhp, 270 to 280 at best and in safe mode, it'll make nowhere near that.

get that exposed wire insulated or replaced and chuck a new sensor in there (less than a tenner) and go play :)

[pillapow]

Cheers guys, I am running a Bosch maf, its around a year old, I looked at it yesterday aswell and its very clean inside.

Put all back together, (temp sensor connected) fitted battery lead with key in position 2, after some high idle, it settled and idled ok, still around the 950rpm mark.

Took it for a run, marginally better running from previous days, can feel it holding back, especially in 3rd gear, so still not running right, wanted to leave it like this until i get the new sensor but curiosity got the better of me.

Shut engine off, unplugged coolant sensor and restarted, took it for a run, i blew an intercooler hose off! Luckily i was on the industrial estate and had a screwdriver with me and two kids in tow, yes!

After fixing, gave it some, same as today, sounds like a supra twin turbo, only this time the CEL came on.

Cheap OBD2 reader gave me a P0181, if i clear that code, the revs increase to about 2000rpm whilst idling and takes a few minutes to die down, so after fettling about a bit more, P0181 is back but the idle is 950rpm and the temp sensor is unplugged.

Re: Deathrider. If the coolant sensor goes into a failsafe mode when faulty, why is it vastly limiting boost when connected but allowing (what i can summise) maximum boost when unplugged?

Shouldnt it be the other way round?

M-R-P: Wouldnt a genuine Volvo sensor be better or doesnt it really matter? Thanks.

[Harvey]

When I get home I can tell what the resistance of the sensor should be at certain temperatures to see if it's faulty.

[M-R-P]

Something like a temp sensor, at that price, would it matter I'd you had to replace it every year? ;)

[Harvey]

Just thinking doesn't the outside temp have some say as well in the door mirror. (or am I just day dreaming).

[pillapow]

When I get home I can tell what the resistance of the sensor should be at certain temperatures to see if it's faulty.

If you have time, I would appreciate that, I have a multimeter. Thankyou.


Something like a temp sensor, at that price, would it matter I'd you had to replace it every year? ;)

Suppose your right, just werent sure if they varied with quality, like the maf's do.

So the FAE one on eurocarparts entitled ( V70 cooling fan switch) is the one to go for?

[M-R-P]

No, you're in the wrong section. You want the temp sensor in the engine management sensors section.

[M-R-P]

Just thinking doesn't the outside temp have some say as well in the door mirror. (or am I just day dreaming).

Naah, that gives you outside temp and stops the AC working if it plays up.

[pillapow]

No, you're in the wrong section. You want the temp sensor in the engine management sensors section.

Are you sure, the picture on this one http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Volvo_V70_2.3_2001/p/car-parts/car-cooling-parts-and-car-heating/cooling/car-switch-and-car-sensor/?223660110&1&ef921c5cc975e790f03b2f8cfd8802db20ade587&000529 is identical to the piece that i have been fettling with, the other one has a green plastic housing.

[Harvey]

Here you go.

http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r499/harveysr/0F12C154-53F7-4F89-BC83-6AC8DE31224B_zps6juthzii.jpg

[pillapow]

No, you're in the wrong section. You want the temp sensor in the engine management sensors section.

This is getting confusing, if, as you say, the sensor with the green housing is the coolant temp sensor, then what sensor have i been unplugging next to the thermostat housing? On the web, some label it as a coolant temp sensor and others label it as a "radiator fan switch", can anybody clear this up, why all this is happening if i remove the radiator fan switch?

M-R-P: This is the genuine Volvo part number for the switch that i think is faulty on my car. It comes back as a coolant temp sensor 9125463 volvo.

Harvey: Appreciate the information, its a little dark now so will test it first thing. Thanks.

[Harvey]

http://www.volvopartswebstore.com/products/Volvo/Iat-sensor/1159691/8653103.html

[pillapow]

http://www.volvopartswebstore.com/products/Volvo/Iat-sensor/1159691/8653103.html

The sensor that has been the difference between poor running with little boost to what seems to be excellent boost and a lot more pull is no.18 on the following link. This has confused me now.

http://www.volvopartswebstore.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_product=1184875&ukey_assembly=241318

[pillapow]

Also Harvey, the link you posted, my layout isnt like that, my T-stat housing layout is identical to the one in the link i posted.

[Harvey]

Also Harvey, the link you posted, my layout isnt like that, my T-stat housing layout is identical to the one in the link i posted.

Sorry its just different years that's all at least you have a number to cross reference to that's why I posted the link.

[pillapow]

Any idea what the differences between these two are?

M-R-P says i need the green one, but the one with the wire and connector block is identical to the one fitted to my car. However both are listed at Coolant Temp Sensor for 2001 V70 T5...


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[deathrider311271]

Any idea what the differences between these two are?

M-R-P says i need the green one, but the one with the wire and connector block is identical to the one fitted to my car. However both are listed at Coolant Temp Sensor for 2001 V70 T5...


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thats the correct item and the code you posted of P0181 is coolant temp sensor but fuel specific, therefore the source of your problems or the wireing to it. mine has the one with the wire on my ME7 car, the pre ME7 one has the green one lol

[pillapow]

thats the correct item and the code you posted of P0181 is coolant temp sensor but fuel specific, therefore the source of your problems or the wireing to it. mine has the one with the wire on my ME7 car, the pre ME7 one has the green one lol

Thanks for clarifying that. :)

[pillapow]

Got some resistance readings from the coolant sensor today, temp was determined from water temperature in the header tank, I squeezed the bottom and top rad hoses a few times before each reading to get as close to a true reading as possible. Didnt manage to get a 10 degree base reading but will get one tomorrow.

Full operating temp (couldnt open header tank) - resistance 227 Ohms

65 degrees - resistance 313 ohms.
57 degrees - resistance 430 ohms.
47 degrees - resistance 700 ohms.
42 degrees - resistance 780 ohms.
40 degrees - resistance 800 ohms.
35 degrees - resistance 870 ohms.

Thats as accurate as i can get it with a thermometer and multimeter.

Considering the Ohm resistance should be 2450 @ 20 degrees, im unsure what to make of the results but the resistance at full operating temperature seems spot on, I may have it completely wrong, if somebody can have a go at working it out, it would help.


Funny enough, the car seems to be running a bit better with the temp sensor plugged in, especially in 1st and 2nd gear, not so much in 3rd onwards, but still not full performance, when its unplugged the car is much better still, but noticabley better in 1st and 2nd...

Thanks guys.

[pillapow]

Was 15 degrees in my header tank this morning when i woke up, resistance @ 15 degrees celsius was 1760 ohms.

[pillapow]

Fitted a new sensor today, new Thermostat seal, stat seems fine, genuine volvo part, reset battery, left ignition on for ten mins before starting just to make sure, first few runs, car was marginally better but still giving similair problems with boost, fan stayed on after shutdown, idle was still high, so felt a bit pee'd off that the sensor hadnt fixed the issue, took her out just now up motorway, done about 10 miles, car is performing brilliant, idle is still high though when fully warm, around 950rpm, maybe it did this before and i hadnt really noticed.

My question is this, would it be normal for the car to adhere to the new sensor after a few miles/cycles of the ignition? Rather than doing it instantly?

Many thanks guys. I do hate ME7 though, i must confess.

[pillapow]

For anybody who is looking to do this or comes across this thread, having similar issues, the coolant temp sensor is located behind the thermostat housing, the wiring loom for it is held onto a bracket next to the thermostat.

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Once you have drained some coolant from the system (I just cracked open the stat) and have the thermostat housing removed, (T40 Torx drive) you will be able to access the coolant temp sensor with an open ended 19mm spanner, as i couldnt find my open ended 19mm spanner, i opted to cut the connector off the end of the sender wiring and use a 19mm ring spanner, space is quite restricted so be sure not to round anything or you are in for a nightmare job.

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Mating surfaces cleaned ready for refitting.

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New coolant temp sensor and thermostat seal fitted, sealed the joint with Loctite black, excellent stuff for sealing joints and cooling systems.

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Seems to have cured my issues with rich running, loss of power when engine is at full temp, loss of boost etc..

[M-R-P]

Hmmmm... It might take a while to adapt.

[Harvey]

Good news it did help with the running fault,give it 10 or so runs and hopefully it will be ok.

[LeeT5]

live readings would be useful in VIDA. That way you can see exactly what the ECU is reading from the CTS.

[pillapow]

Problem remains, only happens when the car is right at full temp, and when i say full temp, i mean with the temp needle slightly over the top of the gauge, im assuming this isnt right?

Where should the temp needle sit on a ME7 2001 T5?

Im thinking the stat is opening too late, allowing the engine to run too hot, therefore the ECU is cutting boost ?

Is this possible?

[stribo]

The needle should sit half way up the gauge, if it's off the end of the gauge, then you've killed the engine.

[pillapow]

No, what i mean is, lets say the gauge reads, 10 o clock at its coldest, 12 o clock at normal operating temp and 2 o clock is the kill your engine time, my needle sits at about half twelve, it is noticably over the bang on midway point of the temp gauge?

Im wondering if this is normal or should it sit right on 12 o clock?

[LeeT5]

No, what i mean is, lets say the gauge reads, 10 o clock at its coldest, 12 o clock at normal operating temp and 2 o clock is the kill your engine time, my needle sits at about half twelve, it is noticably over the bang on midway point of the temp gauge?

Im wondering if this is normal or should it sit right on 12 o clock?

:worthless

[stribo]

Normally they sit bang on 12 o'clock.

[pillapow]

Would of got a pic but i got the new stat today and plan on fitting it first thing tomorrow, do have a little tale to tell though, bought a thermostat from eurocarparts on ebay and opted to collect it from the St Helens store, went to the store this afternoon, got the stat and left, good job i checked it before i drove away, it was a used thermostat and when i say used, i mean well used, it was also damaged, it had limescale and crap all over it, what a joke, took it back in and they all umm'd and arr'd over it, told me it was probably sent back as a faulty return.. Of course, so you sell it on do you? Anyway, give them their due, the delivery guy ordered one over from Bolton and delivered it to my house at 5pm. Nice shiny new one 92 degrees, probably wont do a blind it of difference as i wanted a 87 degree one but beggars cant be choosers i suppose. In fact, I'll go and get a pic of the gauge now as ive just got in and the engine is hot.

Car runs fine up until the top dead centre of the temp gauge, as soon as it goes past that point it begins to run badly, boomy, loss of boost, hesitation, pooor fuel consumption, the gauge sits at the point pictured when at full operating temp.

24439

[stribo]

That's only slightly over what ours reads. Good luck changing the stat, as I.I.r.c. the power steering pump has to come off to get access to it.

[pillapow]

No, it took 5 mins to do the stat, its the old type with two torx t40 bolts, new stat is pretty inferior to the old stat, see what happens, might have to put old stat back in, if this doesnt cure the fault then i dont know what else to do.

[Harvey]

Or run it with the stat not fitted and see if things change as the temp level will be lower.

[pillapow]

Or run it with the stat not fitted and see if things change as the temp level will be lower.

Wont i get really bad mpg doing that? I have fitted the new stat and performance is the same, sluggish when engine is hot, excellent leading upto it, temp gauge in the cabin also reads exactly the same, a little over when upto temp.

Running without a stat is an idea though, its how bad it will affect my consumption. Im currently averaging 21.3.

Before this fault, i was averaging 26mpg.

Probs just have to live with it.

[Harvey]

This time of year now it's not -5 or the likes,won't be to bad the engine will come up to temp ,my point was to see if the fault is still there or not not to to leave it removed permanently. Also just thinking are the cooling fans working when it get hot ?.

[siamblue]

Have you looked at the temp sensor?

[pillapow]

This time of year now it's not -5 or the likes,won't be to bad the engine will come up to temp ,my point was to see if the fault is still there or not not to to leave it removed permanently. Also just thinking are the cooling fans working when it get hot ?.

Yes, the fan is working, it kicks in if i pull up and let the engine idle after a hard run.

I will try running it without the stat and see what happens.


Have you looked at the temp sensor?

Yes, chopped a genuine volvo coolant sensor off and removed a genuine volvo stat to be replaced with pattern parts and still the same, so its not the cooling department thats causing the issue.

[pillapow]

Removed recirculating plate, checked diaphram, resealed, removed etm again, cleaned, resealed, still the same.

Its sort of kangeroo'ing now, especially on the motorway.

Is there any sort of test i can do to check whether its the turbo control valve?

[LeeT5]

Pillapow, Ive just watched your video again and I'll be honest.....the clicking noise I can hear that affects the revs, sounds like the A/C compressor clutch engaging and disengaging.
I think your being led up the garden path a bit. If you've already cleaned the ETM - happy days. Have you removed and cleaned the MAF?
I was surprised at what a difference it can make to drive ability of the car including Boost, idle, mid range power etc.
Clear the codes, clean the MAF and test.
Your cooling fans running after you switch off is totally normal. Also, if you fitted a 92*C stat then your picture of the temp gauge ALSO looks normal. Why did you not fit an 87*C stat? Aren't they mean't to be 87, otherwise your making the engine run hotter than normal. This will affect your fuel consumption.

[960kg]

I will apologise from the start as members usually find my responses a bit beyond them.......but someone has made a big fupar or the cheap OBD11 scanner has, as PO118 is the ECT or Engine Coolant Sensor error code and not PO181 which should be for FUEL Temperature Sensor but on Vadis for your model i cannot find this sensor yet the scanner reader comes up with this code.

The thing is you are ripping out Volvo specified parts and are replacing with cheaper Aftermarket parts so goodness knows where the hell you are with trying to trace a problem. Most aftermarket parts have there own inbuilt problems because of cheapness some rare exceptions.

OK so sometimes one will strike lucky but the aftermarket part will give less performance or sensor readings and will only last a trifle what the Volvo part will. Don`t forget you are probably replacing a Volvo part after at least 10 years of good service for a crap part that will only at best last you 1 year. Yes, by all means use the cheaper part but the reliability and performance of the motor will suffer and you won`t even know where it lacks performance as you have forgotten how it performed with the genuine Volvo part!........you just know it works!


It would help to get the correct error code and if it is PO118 which is for the ECT then maybe you need the genuine Volvo part as a faulty one does indicate that the fuel trim at start is affected and also the engine fan will run only on low speed. It also points to a faulty Thermostat which you have already rectified!

There are over a 1000 error codes and not every one applies to every car .......it depends on the year and model of the motor as well as make........the error codes for your model for instance are different from the 2000 ME7 T5.......

Also as far as Vadis and Vida go, Vadis is up to 2005 and Vida afterwards, a lot of listings in Vida are not as comprehensive as in Vadis for certain years so it pays to use the program which is conversant with your model.

[Harvey]

Had a google and found this, wondering if the fuel pressure sensor and temperatures combined ?.

As it says no 21 in the key and that looks like a fuel pressure sensor to me ,I know it's the wrong car and year but it does say temp sensor & pressure on key ?.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=volvo+fuel+temperature+sensor+t5&source=web&cd=21&ved=0CAkQFjAAOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fworkshop-manuals.com%2Fvolvo%2Fc30_t5%2Fl5-2.5l_turbo_vin_67_b5254t7%2Fpowertrain_management% 2Fsensors_and_switches_powertrain_management%2Fsen sors_and_switches_fuel_delivery_and_air_induction% 2Ffuel_temperature_sensor%2Fcomponent_information% 2Flocations%2Flocation_of_components_engine_compar tment%2F&ei=d4xSU86EIe3b7AbkpoDoDg&usg=AFQjCNGgq1ojyXi2RoOwHrFWIQpw7ffo9w


http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r499/harveysr/04c93549f50b163118de744a4a234a59_zps2a801dcf.jpg

[pillapow]

Thankyou Lee, 960kg & Harvey for your input, Ive been living with the issue for a few weeks now, different symptoms appearing also.

Once or twice, the car has completely bogged down, once was second gear around 3500rpm into a bend, full throttle, momentarily bogged and then came back to life, (can only compare it to a two stroke bike bogging down)

Second was on a hot day, 20 degrees, engine full temp, full throttle take off 1st gear, (still spins with the lack of power) lol, same scenario, bogged around 5-6krpm, felt like a fuel cut tbh, momentarily.

It sounds boost related to me, listening to the engine, through throttle ranges and different revs etc, can hear boost being vented at times, can hear boost being dumped, very audibly on the gear change at times, other times, not.

Took it, (i usually refer to them as "her", but this one is definitely an "IT")! Took it the local tesco at around midnight, roughly a 7 mile round trip, all straight "A" roads so can use the throttle, 6 degrees the air was, gently brought it to 4000rpm in 3rd gear, held it there for a few seconds, gave it WOT - (result was a very small hesitation, then a hard pull, did the same in 4th, similair result, then WOT upon shift to 5th and it was a smooth pull but still lacking the response and punch it once had, seems restricted, held back, but seems to run well in the cold, runs terrible in the heat, be it outside temp or engine temp.

Im going to clean the MAF, MAP, AIT sensors and the other one thats in the airbox to turbo pipe.

Another thing i have noticed, it has a pipercross panel filter which is heavily oiled, im hoping that the MAF is gummed up but probably not.

Been to look at two pre ME7 t5's in the past two weeks and they werent a patch on my V70, even with its faults, so heres to persevering.

Sorry for long post, thanks guys.

[silverhorse]

Another thing i have noticed, it has a pipercross panel filter which is heavily oiled, im hoping that the MAF is gummed up but probably not.

An oiled filter WILL knacker a MAF over time. Definitely worth cleaning on a regular basis.

THIS (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CRC-AIR-SENSOR-CLEAN-MASS-AIR-FLOW-METER-CLEANER-MAF-200ml-/111329629465?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Car_Care_Cleani ng&hash=item19ebc35519) is the stuff you need. LeeT5 recommends it. If it is good enough for him, it is good enough for me!

[Harvey]

Yes I have used that maf cleaner it's the stuff to use as it's safe to all the components in the maf,best not use brake cleaner or the likes.

[Harvey]

An oiled filter WILL knacker a MAF over time. Definitely worth cleaning on a regular basis.

THIS (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CRC-AIR-SENSOR-CLEAN-MASS-AIR-FLOW-METER-CLEANER-MAF-200ml-/111329629465?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Car_Care_Cleani ng&hash=item19ebc35519) is the stuff you need. LeeT5 recommends it. If it is good enough for him, it is good enough for me!

Are you still having MAF problems,did say about this stuff a little while back did you get some back then ?,if so did it make any difference to it.

http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/showthread.php?47845-Maf

[silverhorse]

Are you still having MAF problems,did say about this stuff a little while back did you get some back then ?,if so did it make any difference to it.

http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/showthread.php?47845-Maf

New Bosch MAF a while ago. Still did not like performance air filter. Standard filter and car works fine. VIDA gives me a Yellow DTC of ECM-120D (MAF Signal too low). On rollers car gave 259.8bhp with standard filter. Live VIDA reading gives an air flow of 9.2kg/h, which is too low. I suspect I have a slight air leak om the intake somewhere, but I'm buggered if I know where to look.
I need a weekend to investigate as I want to get the car 100% for a remap.

[pillapow]

Having burst my crossover pipe to turbo rubber coupling last week, i trimmed it slightly as a temp fix, hear hissing today and thought it had split again, took it apart and it was ok.

Decided to remove the two sensors in the etm to intercooler pipe while i was in the mood, the boost pressure sensor and the air intake temp sensor, (could be incorrect) - One was really gunked up, removed a bit of grit from it and replaced, fired car up, could hear like a tapping noise from the area of the sensors, couldnt pinpoint it, removed both sensor connecting plugs whilst car running slight judder when doing so, and replaced them.

Instantly as soon as i hit 4000rpm in 2nd gear i had to smile, like a rollercoaster ride going down the first drop, lol.

It certainly had its kick back but it sort of fizzled out after a few miles, right now it pulls real smooth, no cutting boost anymore, no kangeroo'ing, but that real hard kick i got earlier on had gone somewhat.

If i clean all these sensors with the electrical contact cleaner, hopefully it will be even better!

Whilst im waiting on the bits to arrive, i have a greddy boost gauge to fit, just need some vacuum piping, two tyres and a wheel bearing and hopefully, the car will be without fault. Happy Easter :)

[M-R-P]

Haha sounds like some good news at last :)

I have a spare boost pressure sensor here if you want it.

[pillapow]

Im going to clean all the sensors and replace the vacuum lines first, see what happens then, can i spray contact cleaner into the map sensor or should i not do that lol ?! Thanks MRP. :B_thumb:

[M-R-P]

I put my map (boost pressure sensor if anybody's wondering) in the sonic bath along with a set of fuel injectors. Worked a treat.

[stribo]

Good to see you may be making progress.

[pillapow]

Thanks stribo, just watched a video of what an ultra sonic bath can do, wouldnt mind one of those!

[M-R-P]

Thanks stribo, just watched a video of what an ultra sonic bath can do, wouldnt mind one of those!

Handy bit of kit.

The right selection of chemicals is important tho, use the wrong stuff and you're in trouble lol.

[siamblue]

One of the best mods i did to the engine was to run a oil trap and capture all of the moisture and oil from the intake system.
It won't hurt the map or the barometric sensors,but be careful of the maf,they are real fragile .

[pillapow]

Cleaned MAF twice, AIT & MAP sensors. Seems livelier but still kangerooing at full boost, 5th gear 3-4krpm.

Unsure what to do next asides from getting it plugged in.. Anything anyone can reccomend? I've definitely improved the running in some areas, I know that.

All vacuum pipes to be replaced weekend also! :)

[pillapow]

Managed to plumb the boost gauge in, good job i bought 5m of vacuum hose, had about a foot left!

Replaced all 3 pipes from TCV, havent had it on the motorway yet to monitor boost levels (this is where they are most erratic)

2nd and 3rd gear pull nice though, not 100% but around 1.2-1.3 bar.

Dont know what to check next? LOL.

24789

24790

[LeeT5]

i hope you remember which hose comes from where? The oe hoses are colour coded. If you have to remove them for any reason it will be very easy to forget which hose goes to which nipple on the TCV.

Mine looks like this:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/LeeT5/V70R%20Engine%20mods/After3_zps996a14a0.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/LeeT5/media/V70R%20Engine%20mods/After3_zps996a14a0.jpg.html)

[pillapow]

Hey, thats a beauty, yes, ive had em off that many times i think im fairly familiarised with it now. Doubt they will be touched again now anyway, I have ruled those pipes out well and truly.

Since fitting the boost gauge, boost needle is erratic (flickering) till after about 5000rpm then its rock steady just below 1.2 bar.

From 2000rpm to 5000 rpm, its erratic and kangeroo'ing.

Cant get my head round it, dont want to spend all kinds of money taking it to a specialist etc and what not. I'd rather just sell it and get an old 850 t5. :(

I am a tight arse when it comes to handing paper over to garages but i knew this type of problem could arise when buying an ME7 motor, i suppose its my own fault.

[LeeT5]

Where do you live?

[stribo]

What age is the car?

[pillapow]

Where do you live?

Im in the northwest.

[pillapow]

What age is the car?

2001 (X reg)

[pillapow]

Took a trip down to the coast lastnight, outside temp was 9-10 degrees, car steady boost @ 1.3bar upto 120mph.

Pulls hard in all gears, idles 850-900rpm -

I think its down to the cooler air.

Any suggestions?

[silverhorse]

upto 120mph.


Any suggestions?

Yes. Slow down!

[stribo]

Intake air temperature sensor?

[pillapow]

Intake air temperature sensor?

Well i unplugged that and the car was boosting at 0.8bar, plugged it back in and hitting 1.3 bar again.

However, today, car ran fine first 20 mins, then hesitancy, boost flickering around 1.1-1.2 bar WOT.

Then reverted back to steady 1.3 bar full power mode.

Then the next time i give it some wellie, its back to hesitating.

This is at 16 degrees outside temperature.

Starting to pee me off a bit tbh, just spent £200 on tyres and wheel bearing for the damn thing.

Oh and i sourced a replacement crossover to turbo rubber hose coupling which has already went on fire and melted. :(

[LeeT5]

It sounds to me like your having similar issues to me.
I have, maybe, the same/similar symptoms. I do know, however, that my PCV system is blocked and this will definitely affect boost.
I went to my local main dealer today to collect all the parts needed and I forgot to get coolant! :slap:
Nevermind, will get it later. Total cost of all the parts was £325 and that includes a new thermostat housing and coolant temperature sensor. Now I just need two days clear to fit!!

[pillapow]

It sounds to me like your having similar issues to me.
I have, maybe, the same/similar symptoms. I do know, however, that my PCV system is blocked and this will definitely affect boost.
I went to my local main dealer today to collect all the parts needed and I forget to get coolant! :slap:
Nevermind, will get it later. Total cost of all the parts was £325 and that includes a new thermostat housing and coolant temperature sensor. Now I just need two days clear to fit!!

Ive done the coolant temp sensor and new T stat already, went fine for a few miles, then back to the same old same old..

I hate ME7, i dont mind saying so... Never again. LOL :)

[LeeT5]

Dont know what to check next? LOL.

24789



How about starting by replacing your broken engine oil dipstick and mounting your OTE turbo pipe correctly!! Only needs a 6mm short bolt. Dealer can supply.

[pillapow]

How about starting by replacing your broken engine oil dipstick and mounting your OTE turbo pipe correctly!! Only needs a 6mm short bolt. Dealer can supply.

Haha. Yeh i have the torx bolts for the pipe mount. Because i had to shorten the ote pipe to turbo hose coupling due to a split, the mounts wont line up. A silicone replacement is in the post. As for the dipstick. I had the etm off that many times. I managed to snap it lol. Done the same on a t-5r few years ago. Self tapper screw remedies it for time being. Seals are intact.

[Dream3r]

If you datalog mass air flow, maf voltage, boost pressure, boost pressure voltage, coolant temp, air temp, air pressure, you might show something weird, like a out of spec maf or something.

I think VIDA could do most of that.