noisy top end

[T5frankie]

ive had to change camshafts from the v70r so that they would fit into the v70r cam cover, ive had the car running for 20 minutes andtook it round the block, the top end is still as noisy sounds like a 6 pot diesel lol, i know when ive had a sticky lifter before the only way to free it was to properly thrash it,

also have an oil and water leak to sort out

also dropped my samsung s3 through the engine bay and its broken my camera lens so photos are a bit smeared now :-(

http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac96/t5frankie/20140321_173140_zpsyrrntddn.jpg (http://s889.photobucket.com/user/t5frankie/media/20140321_173140_zpsyrrntddn.jpg.html)

[hybriduno]

you really don't have the best of luck do you mister? ><

[T5frankie]

you really don't have the best of luck do you mister? ><

thats what you get when your only torch to work on the car is your phone lol

[AcidicDavey]

When I started mine for the first time in 1.5 years the other day it was tapperty, after fully warmed up and a quick spin it was fine after 3000rpm was reached ;)

[T5frankie]

When I started mine for the first time in 1.5 years the other day it was tapperty, after fully warmed up and a quick spin it was fine after 3000rpm was reached ;)

nah it's worse than that, i do hope it goes away or i'll crush it lol

[AcidicDavey]

In that case I hope it goes away! :yikes:

[T5frankie]

all my lifters are in different positions now, would this cause the noise?

[MIKESC70T5]

all my lifters are in different positions now, would this cause the noise?

Genuine question, do you have any proper knowledge with working on engines or are you one of those people who just gives it a go and hopes it all works out well?

[T5frankie]

Genuine question, do you have any proper knowledge with working on engines or are you one of those people who just gives it a go and hopes it all works out well?
i'm a home mechanic mike thats been working on cars for years like alot of people here, i'm just gauging others opinions and to get people talking even if i really know the answer

[graemewelch]

the simple answer about the lifters is no. for me the fault lies deeper than that. whats the condition of the lobes on the cams. are you getting the correct oil pressure.

[T5frankie]

the simple answer about the lifters is no. for me the fault lies deeper than that. whats the condition of the lobes on the cams. are you getting the correct oil pressure.

the cams looked fine although were in a 175k engine, apart from the noise the engine runs well, dunno about the oil pressure not something i can check really

[stribo]

Here's my theory, when you tried the 850 cam cover on the V70, it was too tight on the cams, as the cams sit slightly higher on the head than the in the 850, now you've fitted the V70 cam cover to the 850, you now have too much clearance, and the cams aren't being held down properly, and just rattling slightly between the head and the cam cover.

[T5frankie]

Here's my theory, when you tried the 850 cam cover on the V70, it was too tight on the cams, as the cams sit slightly higher on the head than the in the 850, now you've fitted the V70 cam cover to the 850, you now have too much clearance, and the cams aren't being held down properly, and just rattling slightly between the head and the cam cover.

i have also used the v70r cams

[graemewelch]

get a piece of steel tube put it on engine and to your ear to try and pin point the noise

[stribo]

i have also used the v70r cams
But the cam size isn't different, they're just sitting slightly lower in the head. Because of the milling process, there will always be slight variations between batches which is why cam covers strictly speaking aren't interchangeable (though some people have got away with it.) What you nbeed to do is take the cam cover off, put some plastiguage on one of the journals, refit the cam cover, torque it down, then remove it, and the guide that comes with the plastigauge will tell you what clearance you have, you may have to contact Volvo to find out what it should be, as it's not in the Haynes manual.

[T5frankie]

But the cam size isn't different, they're just sitting slightly lower in the head. Because of the milling process, there will always be slight variations between batches which is why cam covers strictly speaking aren't interchangeable (though some people have got away with it.) What you nbeed to do is take the cam cover off, put some plastiguage on one of the journals, refit the cam cover, torque it down, then remove it, and the guide that comes with the plastigauge will tell you what clearance you have, you may have to contact Volvo to find out what it should be, as it's not in the Haynes manual.

well why didnt the 850 cams work in the v70 cam cover also?

[stribo]

well why didnt the 850 cams work in the v70 cam cover also?

Because they were still in the 850 head, if you'd have put the 850 cams in the V70 head, and used the V70 cam cover, you wouldn't have had a problem.

[T5frankie]

Because they were still in the 850 head, if you'd have put the 850 cams in the V70 head, and used the V70 cam cover, you wouldn't have had a problem.

:nut:

[deathrider311271]

Because they were still in the 850 head, if you'd have put the 850 cams in the V70 head, and used the V70 cam cover, you wouldn't have had a problem.

that doesnt make any sense what so ever, as Frankie has put the V70 cams and cover on the 850 head, so with your theory all should be well. If it works 1 way it will work the other way.

i personally think the difference will be in the cam profile itself and the casting of the cylinder head. But it could just be the fact the head was left to get damp and the lifters have got crap and damp in them so are sticking.

[graemewelch]

that doesnt make any sense what so ever, as Frankie has put the V70 cams and cover on the 850 head, so with your theory all should be well. If it works 1 way it will work the other way.

i personally think the difference will be in the cam profile itself and the casting of the cylinder head. But it could just be the fact the head was left to get damp and the lifters have got crap and damp in them so are sticking.

I get what stribo is saying. The cams are matched to head and rocker cover so all should be swap as a unit and not mixed and matched. I always soak lifter in oil when i remove them and always check them befor fitting. Good preperation is always key to a succesfull job

[merc85]

Lifters should be put back in the same pots as they came out of. Is there enough oil getting around the rocker cover, to much silicone can block the oil ways.

Your not having much luck frankie, :(

[deathrider311271]

I get what stribo is saying. The cams are matched to head and rocker cover so all should be swap as a unit and not mixed and matched. I always soak lifter in oil when i remove them and always check them befor fitting. Good preperation is always key to a succesfull job

i can tell you for a fact thats not the case at all, the cams are mass produced as are the heads and covers, they are all designed and made within certain tollerancies. To find out what the differences are between the cams/heads you would need the tech specs. it only takes 0.1mm on the cam journals and everything will be out

[graemewelch]

i can tell you for a fact thats not the case at all, the cams are mass produced as are the heads and covers, they are all designed and made within certain tollerancies. To find out what the differences are between the cams/heads you would need the tech specs. it only takes 0.1mm on the cam journals and everything will be out

Im not sure about the cams but the head and cam cover/cam carrier are machined to match each other. With out the engine being in front of me i couldnt say either way. But in general its not good to mix and match. All cams are prob the same and cnc machined from blanks.

[mitchyboy01]

Lifters should be put back in the same pots as they came out of. Is there enough oil getting around the rocker cover, to much silicone can block the oil ways.

Your not having much luck frankie, :(

This.

I have always been told lifters must be returned to their original position. Moving lifters, swapping cams and covers is a recipe for a noisy top end I'd have thought.

Just did the valve clearances on my bike and the tolerance was 0.12 - 0.18mm so it's only a tiny amount to put it out of spec.

[960kg]

As i have mentioned before in another thread the head casing components with the holes for the camshafts are all line bored in situ, they have to be in any modern OHC engine as the hole is a perfect circle for the cam to rotate in. The cams as said are manufactured separate on CNC machines.

If one want`s to swopped heads you have to swop as a matched head with it`s casting component othetherwise you may end up with an oval hole!..... where the cam rotates when the top cam cover is fitted.

I expect Frankie just put the hydraulic tappets all upside down in a box as well and all the oil drained out over weeks!.......items like these filled with oil should be kept at the same position they are in the engine so no priming is needed..........when new they are primed.

Also the tappets should be put in the same hole they came out of as they have worn to each component for his 174,000mls........Volvo engineering is superb using best quality materials and metals but even at this mileage components will of got use to wear they rub against there neighbouring part.

At the end of the day:......the components have all been swopped around so the tolerances are all to pot! .....the tappets are probably only half full of oil .......and they are all in the wrong position they use to run in which equals a load of noise and = another buggered engine.

Once this has all happened it is rather like a Rubiks cube and each component will never ever get back to it`s proper place it was in originally.

.................................................. .................................................. ...

[T5frankie]

As i have mentioned before in another thread the head casing components with the holes for the camshafts are all line bored in situ, they have to be in any modern OHC engine as the hole is a perfect circle for the cam to rotate in. The cams as said are manufactured separate on CNC machines.

If one want`s to swopped heads you have to swop as a matched head with it`s casting component othetherwise you may end up with an oval hole!..... where the cam rotates when the top cam cover is fitted.

I expect Frankie just put the hydraulic tappets all upside down in a box as well and all the oil drained out over weeks!.......items like these filled with oil should be kept at the same position they are in the engine so no priming is needed..........when new they are primed.

Also the tappets should be put in the same hole they came out of as they have worn to each component for his 174,000mls........Volvo engineering is superb using best quality materials and metals but even at this mileage components will of got use to wear they rub against there neighbouring part.

At the end of the day:......the components have all been swopped around so the tolerances are all to pot! .....the tappets are probably only half full of oil .......and they are all in the wrong position they use to run in which equals a load of noise and = another buggered engine.

Once this has all happened it is rather like a Rubiks cube and each component will never ever get back to it`s proper place it was in originally.

.................................................. .................................................. ...

p,lease dont assume anything keith, the lifters were all kept soaked in oil, i just took too long messing about with the cam belt that they probably ran dry again, when repllacing the lifters i did place each one in a hole that it fitted easy into, as there were a couple that didnt seem to go very well into certain holes, i think gavin ma be onto something with the silicone

[960kg]

p,lease dont assume anything keith, the lifters were all kept soaked in oil, i just took too long messing about with the cam belt that they probably ran dry again, when repllacing the lifters i did place each one in a hole that it fitted easy into, as there were a couple that didnt seem to go very well into certain holes, i think gavin ma be onto something with the silicone

You ask for help but your reply says all what you have done wrong so what can you really expect!........so why really do you ask everyone?...... to try and see who know`s what or who agrees with what you have indeed done wrong?

You say you are simply a home mechanic....the emphasis seems mainly on simply!.......you have played with enough engines and all problems due to yourself, so you really have learnt nothing at all.......it would of been cheaper to have your own paid mechanic to do your work and still have a reliable fast motor probably at the same cost!

So even a fully forged engine is not infallable in your own hands, i dread to think what those vintage 740`s are in for?

So you may of used thick silicone instead of the Volvo sealer!........and got it everywhere!

Frankie, i have no quarms with you at all i am just posting as you yourself post!

[T5frankie]

You ask for help but your reply says all what you have done wrong so what can you really expect!........so why really do you ask everyone?...... to try and see who know`s what or who agrees with what you have indeed done wrong?

You say you are simply a home mechanic....the emphasis seems mainly on simply!.......you have played with enough engines and all problems due to yourself, so you really have learnt nothing at all.......it would of been cheaper to have your own paid mechanic to do your work and still have a reliable fast motor probably at the same cost!

So even a fully forged engine is not infallable in your own hands, i dread to think what those vintage 740`s are in for?

So you may of used thick silicone instead of the Volvo sealer!........and got it everywhere!

Frankie, i have no quarms with you at all i am just posting as you yourself post!

you really are a plum, you don't know me or anything about me or what i can do yet you feel the need to slate me. so what if i run engines outside their comfort zone they are my bloody engines to do wth as i want,i pay for them dont i? and the point of a forum is to chat yes? well it has been the 8 years ive been here

[MIKESC70T5]

Frankie we hardly ever see eye to eye, but honestly everything 960g says makes sense and I only read his posts as being helpful not insulting. This comment didn't inspire confidence

when repllacing the lifters i did place each one in a hole that it fitted easy into, as there were a couple that didnt seem to go very well into certain holes,


Just my opinion :B_thumb:

[Dan850r]

ive got a spare head here if needed, cams and followers are out but there still soaked in oil in the correct order. free if you can collect it. or can get it to you some how

[graemewelch]

mystic meg say 850 t5 breaking for spares very soon in the london area

[WOODY T5]

mystic meg say 850 t5 breaking for spares very soon in the london arealol

[960kg]

you really are a plum, you don't know me or anything about me or what i can do yet you feel the need to slate me. so what if i run engines outside their comfort zone they are my bloody engines to do wth as i want,i pay for them dont i? and the point of a forum is to chat yes? well it has been the 8 years ive been here

I did say i have no quarms and am not at all slating you, not even the way you treat motors as that is your money and your own business.

The thing is Frankie i do know you by the way you write and the way you conduct yourself on here, if i didn`t then i would be a plum!.......how many engines ......how many cars in 8yrs that does lend itself open to slating by others if they choose.

But then the point of this forum is to chat as you say and that is all i am doing aren`t i ?

I don`t usually Chat.......i don`t join in Banter or Praises i just offer help IF others want it.......that is my job done!

[deathrider311271]

Frankie spoke to Tim Williams today and he confirmed exactly what Graeme and Keith both say, they are machined in situ and need to be changed as a complete unit, he also said if your very lucky they may line up close enough to hand sand them so they are as close to a perfect match as can be. The cams shouldnt be an issue

[stribo]

Frankie spoke to Tim Williams today and he confirmed exactly what Graeme and Keith both say, they are machined in situ and need to be changed as a complete unit, he also said if your very lucky they may line up close enough to hand sand them so they are as close to a perfect match as can be. The cams shouldnt be an issue

So I wasn't talking complete tripe then. ;)

[graemewelch]

So I wasn't talking complete tripe then. ;)


You always talk tripe lol. Best stick to talking about blue rinces and perms lol

[stribo]

You always talk tripe lol. Best stick to talking about blue rinces and perms lol

Haha, and you can keep practising your spelling. Rinses, not rinces. :P

[T5frankie]

Frankie we hardly ever see eye to eye, but honestly everything 960g says makes sense and I only read his posts as being helpful not insulting. This comment didn't inspire confidence

when repllacing the lifters i did place each one in a hole that it fitted easy into, as there were a couple that didnt seem to go very well into certain holes,


Just my opinion :B_thumb:

when they didnt sit as easy as others i moved it to another hole, looking down into the filler cap i dont think that there is enough oil getting through to the cams, i think i may have just put too much silicone on and its spreaded too much when bolted down, stopping oil getting through

thing is with this head it has been fully rebuilt, all new valves seals, everything now has been skimmed new bolts gasket etc surely there is another way?

[stribo]

Have you used actual silicon sealant, or multi gasket/Volvo sealant, as if excess silicon gets into oilways it will block them, whereas multigasket, or Volvo sealant willl break down if it gets into any oilways.

[T5frankie]

Have you used actual silicon sealant, or multi gasket/Volvo sealant, as if excess silicon gets into oilways it will block them, whereas multigasket, or Volvo sealant willl break down if it gets into any oilways.

i used some stuff jamie gave me, its thick and grey and goes hard