Powerflex Black Series Ordered!

[JamesT5]

I've just ordered control arm front and rear bushings and lower torque rod bushing from the Powerflex Black Series range for the T5. MRP has kindly offered to assist me in the fitting of the control arm bushings to the control arms I got from Norfolk Volvo Spares and get them fitted to the car (photos will no doubt be taken :D ). The Lower Torque rod I can do myself.

I know a lot of people feel the Black Series is too harsh for normal road use but I disagree because I actually want the hardest ride and best chassis/geometry control I can get. I've no doubt the extra 'shock' will wear out other suspension components more quickly which is why I'm also going to order some uprated HD Drop Links from Parts for Volvos.

I really want Powerflex to launch a range of rear bushes in the Black Series, now that would give the flattest cornering ever! :D

I'll update this thread as things arrive and get fitted! :B_thumb:

[M-R-P]

Apex yellow springs and IPD ARBs next then James :)

[p fandango]

i think because the Blacks are so much stiffer than Powerflex made them to a better tolerance, mine seemed alot to fit than the normal Powerflex bushes

[M-R-P]

I have access to a 400T press should it come to it :D

[V70 Graham]

MRP has kindly offered to assist me in the fitting of the control arm bushings to the control arms I got from Norfolk Volvo Spares and get them fitted to the car (photos will no doubt be taken :D )

I wish I'd taken pictures of M-R-P swinging from his vice when he did mine.....

[p fandango]

I have access to a 400T press should it come to it :D
i'll be very surprised if you need it. I did top engine mount, bulkhead & both on the torque-bar & needed no more than a G-clamp for any of them

[JamesT5]

i'll be very surprised if you need it. I did top engine mount, bulkhead & both on the torque-bar & needed no more than a G-clamp for any of them

It does say it's designed to be fitted without the need for special tools.

[JamesT5]

Uprated from Links ordered as well, I've gone for the Meyle ones as the IPD ones are a little too pricey despite how good and sturdy they may be. There's also a little something else coming from PFV which I'll reveal when it arrives... :shhh: :B_censore :D

[Harvey]

Uprated from Links ordered as well, I've gone for the Meyle ones as the IPD ones are a little too pricey despite how good and sturdy they may be. There's also a little something else coming from PFV which I'll reveal when it arrives... :shhh: :B_censore :D

The ipd drop links are not the best from the feed back you hear,so good choice.

[M-R-P]

i'll be very surprised if you need it. I did top engine mount, bulkhead & both on the torque-bar & needed no more than a G-clamp for any of them

Done a couple of P2 wishbones now (front and rear bushes) and never needed more than a g-clamp or a bench vice.

The fun bit is the juggling act in getting the wishbone off the car and back on again without getting bits of CV joint allover the place.

[Harvey]

The power flex standard range is still a fair bit stiffer than the stock rubber item.

[M-R-P]

Got the HD droplinks on mine - very nice :)

[M-R-P]

I wish I'd taken pictures of M-R-P swinging from his vice when he did mine.....

That was getting the old ones out - bloody hard work that was lol.

Polys went in nice and easy tho, which was nice.

[silverhorse]

Done a couple of P2 wishbones now (front and rear bushes) and never needed more than a g-clamp or a bench vice.

LOL. I tried following your How To guide for pressing in poly bushes with the wishbone still on the car. You made it look so easy with just a G clamp. Fekkin nightmare! Had to take them off and press them in with an HGV press. I still don't know how you did it......


The fun bit is the juggling act in getting the wishbone off the car and back on again without getting bits of CV joint allover the place.

Yeah, I was petrified about that. Hearing the noise of vast expense coming my way!!!!

[p fandango]

The power flex standard range is still a fair bit stiffer than the stock rubber item.
Blacks make them feel like marsh mellows lol

[Harvey]

Blacks make them feel like marsh mellows lol

Yes but I like a nice rattle free car.

[JamesT5]

The chassis and geometry control of the Black Series will be second to none given they are designed for track racing. I've got the powerflex black series engine mount bushings apart from the top rear which incidentally, I've just ordered as well and will be fitting before the MOT. Once the wishbones and lower torque rod have the black bushes fitted as well, I'll have got every available powerflex black series bush they do for the P2 front end. This will be one hard ride I can tell you! :D :B_thumb:

[silverhorse]

You're a braver man than me, James. and you are in Mid Wales too. I bet your roads are as crap as they are here in rural Norfolk.

[graemewelch]

The chassis and geometry control of the Black Series will be second to none given they are designed for track racing. I've got the powerflex black series engine mount bushings apart from the top rear which incidentally, I've just ordered as well and will be fitting before the MOT. Once the wishbones and lower torque rod have the black bushes fitted as well, I'll have got every available powerflex black series bush they do for the P2 front end. This will be one hard ride I can tell you! :D :B_thumb:


theyll be made in the same mould using the same cad design as all other bushes that are made in the yellow stuff. rather you than me with the harsh ride. hope you havnt got any loose filling.

[JamesT5]

You're a braver man than me, James. and you are in Mid Wales too. I bet your roads are as crap as they are here in rural Norfolk.

The roads around where I live do have potholes in them but not as bad as other parts of the country and Wales in general has slightly better roads than England because Wales gets subsidised for them. Also, where I live near the Brecon Beacons, the local authority gets a 'Tourist Allowance', extra cash for road repairs so any potholes are usually swiftly dealt with! :B_thumb:

[JamesT5]

theyll be made in the same mould using the same cad design as all other bushes that are made in the yellow stuff. rather you than me with the harsh ride. hope you havnt got any loose filling.

Yes, same design for obvious reasons or they wouldn't fit but powerflex claim the compound is 80% stiffer than standard rubber bushings.

It all comes down to personal preference, some people just go with uprated standard rubber bushings and are happy but other like myself prefer the harder ride.

[M-R-P]

It'll be noisy too, I remember when I did the wishbones and engine mounts, I thought the manifold was cracked!

[graemewelch]

It'll be noisy too, I remember when I did the wishbones and engine mounts, I thought the manifold was cracked!

martyn just think of it as a knock tool that they use at power engineering but on speaker phone :uglyhamme

[LeeT5]

I've got a mixture of new OE, yellow, purple and Black powerflex bushes, all in the right places - I think. My car handles well, feels firm (like a new car does) and has a nice audible note without being intrusive, annoying, no dash vibration and above all, when cruising, it's fairly quiet. Meaning I haven't gotta turn the stereo up loud to hear the music. I'll be interested to know how this pans out.
I know you want a 'firm ride' James, but I think you may be going to far. After all, isn't your car a daily runner? I know I like to put my toe down now and again and it's nice to hear and feel the car but really? Black series throughout! You sure?

[JamesT5]

I've got a mixture of new OE, yellow, purple and Black powerflex bushes, all in the right places - I think. My car handles well, feels firm (like a new car does) and has a nice audible note without being intrusive, annoying, no dash vibration and above all, when cruising, it's fairly quiet. Meaning I haven't gotta turn the stereo up loud to hear the music. I'll be interested to know how this pans out.
I know you want a 'firm ride' James, but I think you may be going to far. After all, isn't your car a daily runner? I know I like to put my toe down now and again and it's nice to hear and feel the car but really? Black series throughout! You sure?

Yes I'm sure mate. :D

I definitely turn my back on 'normality' as many of my friends will tell you, I don't mind being viewed as a bit of a 'crackpot' and I'm willing to break the mould when it comes to stuff like this. I tend to fly in the face of the unknown at times and take the plunge where others daren't, although I have my own limits such as not wanting to climb Everest or jump out of an Aeroplane - I draw the line there.

Basically, I want to see just how rock hard I can make my car and really push the boat out plus I have this thing, some may think I've got OCD with this, but basically I want all the same bushes as much as possible so that I can feel what it's like to have Black Series everything and everywhere.

I'm probably raising eyebrows doing all of this but I'm really looking forward to the results. :D :banana: :rally_dri :partysmil

[LeeT5]

Well if you wanna go really hard then the only way forward is to fit a chassis brace kit and also make the engine top mount solid. :saythat:

I know someone with a manual R, same as mine who did just that. His top mount was solid metal!

[LeeT5]

Yes I'm sure mate. :D

I definitely turn my back on 'normality' as many of my friends will tell you, I don't mind being viewed as a bit of a 'crackpot' and I'm willing to break the mould when it comes to stuff like this. I tend to fly in the face of the unknown at times and take the plunge where others daren't, although I have my own limits such as not wanting to climb Everest or jump out of an Aeroplane - I draw the line there.

Basically, I want to see just how rock hard I can make my car and really push the boat out plus I have this thing, some may think I've got OCD with this, but basically I want all the same bushes as much as possible so that I can feel what it's like to have Black Series everything and everywhere.

I'm probably raising eyebrows doing all of this but I'm really looking forward to the results. :D :banana: :rally_dri :partysmil

I think you may find the car is almost undriveable, unless on a smooth race track. It will also put undue stress on the suspension components and will definately shorten their life!
The car may also skip and dance about on the uneven roads and therefore make it feel uneasy at motorway speed. Not a nice feeling.
It's a lot of money to spend only to find you have to take half of them off.
Good luck :scared:

[claymore]

Yep, I'm with Lee on this one,

[JamesT5]

Has anyone here actually gone totally Black on the front end? If not then it's all a guessing game and I could be on to a winner.

[stribo]

If you want to go really hard James, stop fannying about with bushes, and fit coilovers ;)

[JamesT5]

If you want to go really hard James, stop fannying about with bushes, and fit coilovers ;)

I thought about getting rid of my shocks and putting in solid cast iron 'rods', but I'll settle for some coilovers. :D

[Harvey]

I guess it would be like 19" on a "R" in advance mode,on a rough road = hopeless ride.

[JamesT5]

Don't worry everyone, I'll be putting in a full report when they're fitted and Mr Peachy can have the first VPC exclusive ride review when he's finished assisting me with the fitting. :B_thumb:

[stribo]

I guess it would be like 19" on a "R" in advance mode,on a rough road = hopeless ride.

The shocks and spring rates won't change, so I doubt the actual suspension will be mch harder, all that'll happen is they'll be more NVH (noise, vibration, harshness), as the bushes won't damp it out.

[JamesT5]

The shocks and spring rates won't change, so I doubt the actual suspension will be mch harder, all that'll happen is they'll be more NVH (noise, vibration, harshness), as the bushes won't damp it out.

You have to admit, cornering will be awesome though, I might even beat Frankie on a track day (now I have started something!)
:D :hidesbehi :mischievo

[stribo]

You have to admit, cornering will be awesome though, I might even beat Frankie on a track day (now I have started something!)
:D :hidesbehi :mischievo

The bushes will help wheel location, but as it's still running the same suspension including anti-roll bars, it won't make much difference to the handling, unless you drive it on it's limit all the time.

[claymore]

with not having a strut brace, I think the inner wings will shake themselves to bits

[graemewelch]

Got disaster written all over it. Your going to ruin the car big time

[JamesT5]

with not having a strut brace, I think the inner wings will shake themselves to bits

Only £115 from PFV, ebay seems short of them.

[LeeT5]

I thought about getting rid of my shocks and putting in solid cast iron 'rods', but I'll settle for some coilovers. :D

R u taking the p*ss?

[JamesT5]

R u taking the p*ss?

:ices_rofl :uglyhamme :banana: :rotfl:

[t5 pete]

Yes I'm sure mate. :D

I definitely turn my back on 'normality' as many of my friends will tell you, I don't mind being viewed as a bit of a 'crackpot' and I'm willing to break the mould when it comes to stuff like this. I tend to fly in the face of the unknown at times and take the plunge where others daren't, although I have my own limits such as not wanting to climb Everest or jump out of an Aeroplane - I draw the line there.

Basically, I want to see just how rock hard I can make my car and really push the boat out plus I have this thing, some may think I've got OCD with this, but basically I want all the same bushes as much as possible so that I can feel what it's like to have Black Series everything and everywhere.

I'm probably raising eyebrows doing all of this but I'm really looking forward to the results. :D :banana: :rally_dri :partysmil

Some say once you've gone black there's no going back

Has anyone here actually gone totally Black on the front end? If not then it's all a guessing game and I could be on to a winner.

Ide be quite worried if it did maybe see a doctor for that one

[LeeT5]

Only £115 from PFV, ebay seems short of them.

You telling me you haven't got a strut brace yet? Bloody hell James, that's standard practice on a T5! It completely eliminates all the torque steer and enables more control and also helps with reducing wheel spin. You'll get more benefit from a £115 strut brace than you will £115 worth of black series bushes mate.

[JamesT5]

I expected some serious stick over this, but there again I'm used to it by now. :smileypul :blahblah: :whatever: ;)

[LeeT5]

I expected some serious stick over this, but there again I'm used to it by now. :smileypul :blahblah: :whatever: ;)

Not serious stick, just common sense really. I admire your quest to go all black but I can't help think you will regret it. Not only that, the money wasted!
If your insisting on continuing, then may I suggest you change one set of bushes at a time then live with the car for a month and see how you feel about it? Then fit the next set. Otherwise, when you overstep the mark (which you will) you won't know which bushes to remove that tip the car over the edge.
I'm not being negative, just trying to help.

Btw, you shouldn't dis peoples comments. (Blah blah and whatever)
I'm sure we're all just trying to give you sound advice.

[MIKESC70T5]

Got disaster written all over it. Your going to ruin the car big time

Totally agree with Graeme on this one. The guys got a screw lose, first 0w30 oil now rock hard bushes in a daily driver because he thinks it will handle better but doesn't have a strut brace fitted yet :doh:

[JamesT5]

Not serious stick, just common sense really. I admire your quest to go all black but I can't help think you will regret it. Not only that, the money wasted!
If your insisting on continuing, then may I suggest you change one set of bushes at a time then live with the car for a month and see how you feel about it? The fit the next set. Otherwise, when you overstep the mark (which you will) you won't know which bushes to remove that tip the car over the edge.
I'm not being negative, just trying to help.

Btw, you shouldn't dis peoples comments. (Blah blah and whatever)
I'm sure we're all just trying to give you sound advice.

Lee you're exaggerating and turning this in to a Storm in a teacup. Firstly, it's not standard practice to put a strut brace on a T5 even though it is practically a good idea for any car. Secondly, I'm not going to 'tip the car over the edge', for crying out loud man - I'm changing some rubber bits for polyurethane, you're talking to me as if I'm strapping two Saturn 5 rockets to the side of the ruddy thing.

Crikey, can't I post anything on here without the Trolls sticking their ore in and trying to pass it off as useful advice. Sorry but it really is childish behaviour.

I've got forum members offering me practical help with fitting all this kit, they know who they are and that help I appreciate from them!

[stribo]

Well, it's your car James, you can do what you like with it, but just one last question, why do you think Volvo fit rubber bushes, and not polyurethane ones. Here ends my Trolling.:D

[MIKESC70T5]

Lee you're exaggerating and turning this in to a Storm in a teacup. Firstly, it's not standard practice to put a strut brace on a T5 even though it is practically a good idea for any car. Secondly, I'm not going to 'tip the car over the edge', for crying out loud man - I'm changing some rubber bits for polyurethane, you're talking to me as if I'm strapping two Saturn 5 rockets to the side of the ruddy thing.

Crikey, can't I post anything on here without the Trolls sticking their ore in and trying to pass it off as useful advice. Sorry but it really is childish behaviour.

I've got forum members offering me practical help with fitting all this kit, they know who they are and that help I appreciate from them!

If you didn't post nonsense 80% of the time maybe you wouldn't get the responses you are getting. :uglyhamme
You say you want the car to handle its best so the first thing any sane person would do, especially with a fwd car is fit a strut brace, a good sporty suspension setup and good tyres, but not you, let's poly bush everything first :slap:

What's the bet your next thread will be " I'm leaving again " lol.

[LeeT5]

Lee you're exaggerating and turning this in to a Storm in a teacup. Firstly, it's not standard practice to put a strut brace on a T5 even though it is practically a good idea for any car. Secondly, I'm not going to 'tip the car over the edge', for crying out loud man - I'm changing some rubber bits for polyurethane, you're talking to me as if I'm strapping two Saturn 5 rockets to the side of the ruddy thing.

Crikey, can't I post anything on here without the Trolls sticking their ore in and trying to pass it off as useful advice. Sorry but it really is childish behaviour.

I've got forum members offering me practical help with fitting all this kit, they know who they are and that help I appreciate from them!

Look James, I don't know you and 'your right' to do with your car, is your right. I'm pretty thick skinned and you can say what you like to me, I know when I'm right about something and all I'm trying to do is offer sound advice. Whether you listen or take it, is your call, but there's no need to call us Trolls!
I'm really not exaggerating and it is you that have turned this thread into a storm in a teacup by the mere fact of what you propose to do!
It's clear to us all that you intend on cracking on with it, well good luck is all I can say. However, having changed many OE bushes for Poly myself, my advice stands. Change one set at a time or you'll never know which bushes make the car hideous to drive!!
I had this problem when I changed my lower torq mount bush, swapped both out for poly. After a week or two I quickly realized that it drove like ££££e! So I removed the torq mount, fitted another new OE mount but this time I only replaced the smaller bush for poly. The result was amazing!!!
Oh, and I assume you'll be having your wheel alignment done after each set is changed on the suspension (if you decide to change them one at a time)? That's gonna cost you!

Anyway, I've finished trolling now so I'm off back to my cave. Good luck James and whoever is helping you :cuckoo:

By the way, I do hope your replacing all the rear bushes as well? They do black series for the rear too - I think as per S60 AWD diagram on the Powerflex site, I know they are the same as V70R/S60R - not too sure on the FWD T5 rear end?

Anyway...good luck James!! :B_thumb:

[LeeT5]

One more thing too James. Can you do me a favour? Can you list ALL the bushes you intend on replacing for black series? I would be interested in knowing and I'm sure everyone would too. Being as your going rock hard, I assume you've already fitted the subframe void inserts? These make a big difference if you haven't. Had to remove mine due to steering vibration at low speed, but then I would never have known that if I had fitted ALL the bushes at the same time!! I would have been left guessing as to which ones were the culprit.

[p fandango]

Has anyone here actually gone totally Black on the front end? If not then it's all a guessing game and I could be on to a winner.
I'm just missing the black wishbone bushes, but I have made a solid front engine mount & got solid subframe bushes

[silverhorse]

Change one set at a time or you'll never know which bushes make the car hideous to drive!!

I reckon that is good advice there James. You will know fairly quickly if they make a positive or negative difference if you test them methodically by going over roads you know intimately.
Anyway, good luck to you mate. It is your car after all, so if that's what you want to do, go for it. Keep us posted

[graemewelch]

A few words spring to mind here." A little bit of knolodgein the wrong hnds is dangerous". Some good advise here james youd be wise to listen.

[soothingduck]

What are ?

"subframe void inserts"
are they the 4 bushes (3+1)

[V70 Graham]

Good idea to change one type at a time, or at least drive the car between type changes.

[JamesT5]

What are ?

"subframe void inserts"
are they the 4 bushes (3+1)

I've got 4 sitting in a box I purchased off Sponge some time ago, just haven't fitted them yet with the subframe coming down all the time I didn't see much point. Basically they fill the gap in the subframe bush to reduce chassis movement. They make a big difference apparently!

[p fandango]

I've got 4 sitting in a box I purchased off Sponge some time ago, just haven't fitted them yet with the subframe coming down all the time I didn't see much point. Basically they fill the gap in the subframe bush to reduce chassis movement. They make a big difference apparently!
i got some alloy bushes made

http://imageshack.com/a/img22/5372/img0864hr.jpg

[LeeT5]

http://www.ipdusa.com/products/8969/...ing-insert-kit

Here's the poly insert kit for subframe bushes.

[soothingduck]

http://www.ipdusa.com/products/8969/...ing-insert-kit

Here's the poly insert kit for subframe bushes.

Yeah in the states and stupid money to get them.
I think its roofing sealant for me :)

[Harvey]

Yeah in the states and stupid money to get them.
I think its roofing sealant for me :)

You could try this stuff used it before tough is old boots when gone off.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SIKAFLEX-221-Caravan-Motorhome-Sealant-Multi-Purpose-BLACK-/371013097291?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item56621a974b

[graemewelch]

i seen some on ebay for £25 the other day. same guy who sells them on t5d5.

[Rudeyboy18]

I've got 4 sitting in a box I purchased off Sponge some time ago, just haven't fitted them yet with the subframe coming down all the time I didn't see much point. Basically they fill the gap in the subframe bush to reduce chassis movement. They make a big difference apparently!


They do make a massive difference. Fitted them on my drive and took about 45-50 mins to fit all 4. Well worth the time/effort and money

[graemewelch]

They do make a massive difference. Fitted them on my drive and took about 45-50 mins to fit all 4. Well worth the time/effort and money

mine are still in the cuboard. had them for 9 month now. ill fit them one day

[Rudeyboy18]

mine are still in the cuboard. had them for 9 month now. ill fit them one day

A man with your skills and tools should take you half the time to fit. Now the sun's out lately , you have no excuse :-)

[graemewelch]

A man with your skills and tools should take you half the time to fit. Now the sun's out lately , you have no excuse :-)

your right it probobly wouldnt take me long. my head is so far up my rear end at the minute that ive done very little recently.

[JamesT5]

i seen some on ebay for £25 the other day. same guy who sells them on t5d5.

Yes, it's the same bloke I purchased mine off! :B_thumb:

[LeeT5]

Yeah in the states and stupid money to get them.
I think its roofing sealant for me :)

I wasn't suggesting buying them from the states, I merely posted the link because its a good picture of the inserts and what they look like.
As said, you can get them off eBay and from a bloke on T5D5. They cost me £25 and did make a monumental difference but had to remove the rear ones on mine because of steering vibration at low speed. I will get some more and refit once I've had my P/S fluid flushed as I think it may be the culprit.

[stribo]

I've fitted some of Sponges to the C70, still have a set to fit to the R, TBH I didn't notice any difference, but that doesn't mean they're no good, just my car's so stiff anyway.

[JamesT5]

So here's some pictures of the Black Series bushes, the picture of the front bushes on their own didn't come out too well so I haven't uploaded it. The rear bushes look pretty damn solid to me and they feel like solid plastic! :D The front ones seem a little more flexible be comparison but not by much.

Interestingly they sent me one of those Powerflex key rings made from the yellow compound, I couldn't believe how soft and squashy the yellow stuff is be comparison!

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011562_zpsffae9f25.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011562_zpsffae9f25.jpg.html)

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011564_zps8f85aa61.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011564_zps8f85aa61.jpg.html)

[Harvey]

Good luck, hope the fitting goes to plan look forward to the photos & up dates.

[JamesT5]

Good luck, hope the fitting goes to plan look forward to the photos & up dates.

With MRP around I'm sure this will go brilliantly and I know Martin is great at solving any issues that may crop up when we do the job. There'll be plenty of photos alright, I've actively encouraged Martin to take photos of the refurb of the new control arms as he fits the bushes in.

Just waiting for my lower torque rod and top engine mount small bushing to arrive now. Gosh, this weekend will be the first time I actually feel that progress beyond normal maintenance and repairs is actually happening with this car.

[stephenevans99]

With MRP around I'm sure this will go brilliantly and I know Martin is great at solving any issues that may crop up when we do the job. There'll be plenty of photos alright, I've actively encouraged Martin to take photos of the refurb of the new control arms as he fits the bushes in.

Just waiting for my lower torque rod and top engine mount small bushing to arrive now. Gosh, this weekend will be the first time I actually feel that progress beyond normal maintenance and repairs is actually happening with this car.

I can sense the excitement in that post...like a 6 year old on xmas eve lol

[graemewelch]

i think these bushes will work well in the wishbones but its the only place that i would fit them.

[JamesT5]

i think these bushes will work well in the wishbones but its the only place that i would fit them.

Well I already have one in the top engine mount and strut brace tension bushes. I love the solid feel of them, the vibration I'm now used to and would miss if it wasn't there.

By your logic then, if the control arms are going to be ok running with these and I don't have issues with the engine mount bushings, by my estimation I'm going to be lovin' these. The lower torque rod, from what I understand, stops the gearbox from twisting and keeps it in line. I can't imagine two Polybushes in there causing any comfort issues.

I'm expecting more road vibration naturally, but also superior, flatter cornering and less roll. I already have a Polybushed ARB on the front which I would change to Powerflex Black Series if I had the chance but I e-mailed Powerflex and they don't currently plan to make a front ARB bush. This could change in the future, who knows!

[JamesT5]

I can sense the excitement in that post...like a 6 year old on xmas eve lol

Too right there Steve. ;)

[stribo]

Well I already have one in the top engine mount and strut brace tension bushes. I love the solid feel of them, the vibration I'm now used to and would miss if it wasn't there.

By your logic then, if the control arms are going to be ok running with these and I don't have issues with the engine mount bushings, by my estimation I'm going to be lovin' these. The lower torque rod, from what I understand, stops the gearbox from twisting and keeps it in line. I can't imagine two Polybushes in there causing any comfort issues.

I'm expecting more road vibration naturally, but also superior, flatter cornering and less roll. I already have a Polybushed ARB on the front which I would change to Powerflex Black Series if I had the chance but I e-mailed Powerflex and they don't currently plan to make a front ARB bush. This could change in the future, who knows!

Bushes won't stop, or lessen the effect of a car rolling, only stiffer springs or an uprated ARB will do that.

[JamesT5]

Bushes won't stop, or lessen the effect of a car rolling, only stiffer springs or an uprated ARB will do that.

Got both of those already, basically anyway. I'm putting the uprated HD Meyle Drop Links on these week as well.

[graemewelch]

Well I already have one in the top engine mount and strut brace tension bushes. I love the solid feel of them, the vibration I'm now used to and would miss if it wasn't there.

By your logic then, if the control arms are going to be ok running with these and I don't have issues with the engine mount bushings, by my estimation I'm going to be lovin' these. The lower torque rod, from what I understand, stops the gearbox from twisting and keeps it in line. I can't imagine two Polybushes in there causing any comfort issues.

I'm expecting more road vibration naturally, but also superior, flatter cornering and less roll. I already have a Polybushed ARB on the front which I would change to Powerflex Black Series if I had the chance but I e-mailed Powerflex and they don't currently plan to make a front ARB bush. This could change in the future, who knows!

i think your in for a shock if you think you going to make the car handle better. the wishbones will help with making the steering feel sharper but thats about it. the car will still corner exactly the same. all your going to do by using poly bushes on the gearbox and engine mounts is make it rattle like a old vauxhall. but each to there own but i boughta s60 cause i like the comfort of the car so id never ruin that with what are pointless mods in my opinion

[JamesT5]

i think your in for a shock if you think you going to make the car handle better. the wishbones will help with making the steering feel sharper but thats about it. the car will still corner exactly the same. all your going to do by using poly bushes on the gearbox and engine mounts is make it rattle like a old vauxhall. but each to there own but i boughta s60 cause i like the comfort of the car so id never ruin that with what are pointless mods in my opinion

I don't think much of Decat exhaust systems but I don't go slating them on a forum, however you make and sell them and will tell me they're the best invention since sliced bread. The point is it's down to personal preference.

If there wasn't a market for your decat exhaust systems and downpipes you wouldn't be on here trying to sell them, the same goes for Powerflex. I think it's safe to say that Powerflex did their market research before trying to flog bushes like this and if I recall you were actually trying to make some front control arm rear bushes some time ago to sell on here. If they're a 'pointless mod' then why did you go to the bother of trying to do up a Computer Aided Design drawing of them and get them moulded and made.

I find your comments very odd Graeme, I feel you're trying to write off mods that you yourself have either made or try to make or have fitted to your own car. Makes no sense to me whatsoever.

:confused: :wtf:

[graemewelch]

I don't think much of Decat exhaust systems but I don't go slating them on a forum, however you make and sell them and will tell me they're the best invention since sliced bread. The point is it's down to personal preference.

If there wasn't a market for your decat exhaust systems and downpipes you wouldn't be on here trying to sell them, the same goes for Powerflex. I think it's safe to say that Powerflex did their market research before trying to flog bushes like this and if I recall you were actually trying to make some front control arm rear bushes some time ago to sell on here. If they're a 'pointless mod' then why did you go to the bother of trying to do up a Computer Aided Design drawing of them and get them moulded and made.

I find your comments very odd Graeme, I feel you're trying to write off mods that you yourself have either made or try to make or have fitted to your own car. Makes no sense to me whatsoever.

:confused: :wtf:


rewind a bit james and youll see i said the poly bushes in the wishbones will prob work very well. what i am saying is that solid black engine mounts in MY opinion are a step backwards and would take away everything that made me buy a s60 in the first place. there are certain mounts and bushes on our cars that benifit from uprated bushes. the wishbone is one of them. then theres others that have been tried time and time again and are proven to be a bad move. yet you wont take onboard any advice from other member that have been there done and went back to oe.

im on this forum because i drive a volvo james its that simple. i make down pipe and various other parts cause i can and that i want to fit them to my car. i doubt very much youll find me blowing my own trumpet about what i build for my car or parts that others have asked me to build.

i realy hope one day that some of the things you do to your car dont backfire as upto now i think youve been extremly lucky

[JamesT5]

rewind a bit james and youll see i said the poly bushes in the wishbones will prob work very well. what i am saying is that solid black engine mounts in MY opinion are a step backwards and would take away everything that made me buy a s60 in the first place. there are certain mounts and bushes on our cars that benifit from uprated bushes. the wishbone is one of them. then theres others that have been tried time and time again and are proven to be a bad move. yet you wont take onboard any advice from other member that have been there done and went back to oe.

im on this forum because i drive a volvo james its that simple. i make down pipe and various other parts cause i can and that i want to fit them to my car. i doubt very much youll find me blowing my own trumpet about what i build for my car or parts that others have asked me to build.

i realy hope one day that some of the things you do to your car dont backfire as upto now i think youve been extremly lucky

I refer to my comment about market research, if there wasn't a market for these Black Series then they wouldn't make them and to say that I've been extremely lucky that nothing has backfired on me is a little melodramatic IMO, it's not luck it's just that I have taken the right moves and not everyone's opinions about what I have done have been correct.

On a foot note, I'm now getting a little tired of having to justify every modification I'm making to the car and then spend 2 or 3 pages arguing the toss with a minority on the matter, next time I think I'll just plough on and fit bits rather than trying to tell people about them beforehand.

[graemewelch]

I refer to my comment about market research, if there wasn't a market for these Black Series then they wouldn't make them and to say that I've been extremely lucky that nothing has backfired on me is a little melodramatic IMO, it's not luck it's just that I have taken the right moves and not everyone's opinions about what I have done have been correct.

On a foot note, I'm now getting a little tired of having to justify every modification I'm making to the car and then spend 2 or 3 pages arguing the toss with a minority on the matter, next time I think I'll just plough on and fit bits rather than trying to tell people about them beforehand.


think youll find companies will make what ever sells. its as simple as that.

if you dont like people responses then dont post. your always going to get people who disagree. most take it on the chin and dont spit there dummy out.

[MIKESC70T5]

think youll find companies will make what ever sells. its as simple as that.



K&N are a classic for this. They make induction kits for a lot of cars that give no power gains and in some cases lose you power. All they do is look good and make noise. Doesn't stop people buying them though.

[stephenevans99]

think youll find companies will make what ever sells. its as simple as that.

This is true :(

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/car-bike-Turbo-sound-exhaust-muffler-pipe-whistler-whistle-wizzer-Great-sound-/140798462684?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item20c83e0adc

[JamesT5]

Upper Engine Mount Small Bushing (see photo) arrived today, still waiting for the Lower Torque Rod bushings to arrive but i might burn off the rubber from my old torque mount today and prep it ready for fitting the bushes straight on when they arrive.

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011566_zpsa9bf1f40.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011566_zpsa9bf1f40.jpg.html)

[M-R-P]

You shouldn't need to burn the old bush out James, mine just pushed out.

[JamesT5]

You shouldn't need to burn the old bush out James, mine just pushed out.

Mine have left loads of rubber residue in the hole mate, I'll have to burn it off first.

[JamesT5]

You shouldn't need to burn the old bush out James, mine just pushed out.

Oh, hang Martin, I'm on about the torque rod now not the engine mount bushing...

[M-R-P]

Oh, hang Martin, I'm on about the torque rod now not the engine mount bushing...

So am I, the bush has a plastic casing iirc and it just pops out - it may need a little persuasion with a screwdriver and a hammer tho :)

[V70 Graham]

.....it may need a little persuasion with a screwdriver and a hammer tho :)

Another technical term I guess lol

[stribo]

If you can't fix something with a hammer, you need a bigger hammer. ;)

[M-R-P]

Right, here's some pictures from tonight's fun...

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af125/MRPV70/DSCF7672_zps489e4260.jpg (http://s1000.photobucket.com/user/MRPV70/media/DSCF7672_zps489e4260.jpg.html)

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af125/MRPV70/DSCF7675_zpsf49d6b05.jpg (http://s1000.photobucket.com/user/MRPV70/media/DSCF7675_zpsf49d6b05.jpg.html)

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af125/MRPV70/DSCF7674_zps019541ff.jpg (http://s1000.photobucket.com/user/MRPV70/media/DSCF7674_zps019541ff.jpg.html)

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af125/MRPV70/DSCF7676_zpsa3a8005f.jpg (http://s1000.photobucket.com/user/MRPV70/media/DSCF7676_zpsa3a8005f.jpg.html)

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af125/MRPV70/DSCF7677_zpsdb47d410.jpg (http://s1000.photobucket.com/user/MRPV70/media/DSCF7677_zpsdb47d410.jpg.html)

[JamesT5]

They look fab Martin, looking forward to seeing them in the flesh!

[M-R-P]

They put up one hell of a fight James, much harder than the standard powerflex jobbies.

I'm happy to report however, the rear bushes have a lot more flex in them once fitted, than I thought they would. I'm still not 100% sold on the design though.

[JamesT5]

They put up one hell of a fight James, much harder than the standard powerflex jobbies.

I'm happy to report however, the rear bushes have a lot more flex in them once fitted, than I thought they would. I'm still not 100% sold on the design though.

Think of me as a Guinea Pig for them, I have lot of confidence in them and it's like anything new, until they've been tested and vouched for then a lot of people will be twitchy with it.

[graemewelch]

The wishbone bushes will be fine. But its the only place id fit blacks on a road car. But thats just me and my fussness of what i will and wont fit to my car

[M-R-P]

Being only recently released, the rear bushes are as yet unproven in ride quality and longevity. It'll be interesting to see how these turn out.

[graemewelch]

Im sure rear bushes will be fine. The problem with other bushes was the material.

[M-R-P]

Oh yes, I forgot - one of the rods was straight instead of fluted so I got all Pedro on it...

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g413/martinrpeachey/Snapbucket/DSC_0071_zps4c248948.jpg (http://s1100.photobucket.com/user/martinrpeachey/media/Snapbucket/DSC_0071_zps4c248948.jpg.html)

[V70 Graham]

Looking forward to seeing your results come Saturday night.

[partsforvolvos.com]

The rear bush design is already proved on other applications, just not on the Volvo. I think it was for a Peugeot amongst others.
I discussed it in detail with powerflex before it was released, and we reviewed other solutions available for this.
the other option was a swivel bush but it was felt the cost would have been way too high.
my own conclusion was that the polyurethane quality makes a massive difference, because a couple of designs can be ok in the correct quality.

don't forget powerflex have a lifetime warranty and they back it up.

[graemewelch]

The rear bush design is already proved on other applications, just not on the Volvo. I think it was for a Peugeot amongst others.
I discussed it in detail with powerflex before it was released, and we reviewed other solutions available for this.
the other option was a swivel bush but it was felt the cost would have been way too high.
my own conclusion was that the polyurethane quality makes a massive difference, because a couple of designs can be ok in the correct quality.



don't forget powerflex have a lifetime warranty and they back it up.

agree with all the above. powerflex have a very good repuataion and material quality is key when it come to quality and durability. powerflex are the only bush that i would use on my car. but only there normal range execpt for maybe the wishbone bushes.

[LeeT5]

Upper Engine Mount Small Bushing (see photo) arrived today, still waiting for the Lower Torque Rod bushings to arrive but i might burn off the rubber from my old torque mount today and prep it ready for fitting the bushes straight on when they arrive.

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011566_zpsa9bf1f40.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011566_zpsa9bf1f40.jpg.html)

I don't see any point in replacing this one. When you remove the top mount and look at the smaller bush, I think you'll find its nearly rock solid anyway! Mine was, so I never replaced it. It's the larger bush that wears and needs to be poly. The smaller bushes NEVER wear out on the top engine mount.


I don't think much of Decat exhaust systems but I don't go slating them on a forum, however you make and sell them and will tell me they're the best invention since sliced bread. The point is it's down to personal preference.

If there wasn't a market for your decat exhaust systems and downpipes you wouldn't be on here trying to sell them, the same goes for Powerflex. I think it's safe to say that Powerflex did their market research before trying to flog bushes like this and if I recall you were actually trying to make some front control arm rear bushes some time ago to sell on here. If they're a 'pointless mod' then why did you go to the bother of trying to do up a Computer Aided Design drawing of them and get them moulded and made.

I find your comments very odd Graeme, I feel you're trying to write off mods that you yourself have either made or try to make or have fitted to your own car. Makes no sense to me whatsoever.

:confused: :wtf:

That's an interesting comment! How can you not think much of them?? It's a well known fact that on a Turbo charged car, decatting the exhaust makes a huge difference - mainly allowing the turbo to spool up quicker and a notable difference in turbo lag. Being as the manufacturers of motorcar parts have to be seen to be making a conservative effort in saving the planet, some bright spark invented 'Race Catalysts'!
Why might that be?? (For those that don't know) - its because Decatting an exhaust DOES make a difference and therefore, having a race cat not only improves performance but saves the planet too! As well as keeping the MOT tester happy and allowing your car to be road legal.

Regarding all these Black series bushes your in the process of fitting, I think it is you James that has not done your research.

Quote from Powerflex site...."Ultimate performance motorsport track and race bushes offering the most precise and accurate alignment for your chassis."

Unless your entering the BTCC James...your wasting your money!!

You will get better results by fitting yellow and purple bushes where possible and have a car that handles better yet still retains some form of comfort! It is you that decided to tell the world what your doing and it is you that is taking everyones comments personally. Nearly everyone thinks your bloody stupid for doing it and not only are you fitting the hardest bushes you can get but your not even going to trial each bush to see if it makes the car handle worse/better. As a qualified mechanic/vehicle technician I find this route completely chaotic and bloody minded. Doesn't mean I'm not interested in the results, just cannot get my head around what your doing. Will you be truthful in your findings when the car is finished?? I suppose we'll all have to wait.
I think that I'm not alone in thinking that the car will handle great on a track (providing you uprate the springs, shocks, ARBs etc) yet as a daily driver on UK roads it will handle like poo!

[LeeT5]

rewind a bit james and youll see i said the poly bushes in the wishbones will prob work very well. what i am saying is that solid black engine mounts in MY opinion are a step backwards and would take away everything that made me buy a s60 in the first place. there are certain mounts and bushes on our cars that benifit from uprated bushes. the wishbone is one of them. then theres others that have been tried time and time again and are proven to be a bad move. yet you wont take onboard any advice from other member that have been there done and went back to oe.

im on this forum because i drive a volvo james its that simple. i make down pipe and various other parts cause i can and that i want to fit them to my car. i doubt very much youll find me blowing my own trumpet about what i build for my car or parts that others have asked me to build.

i realy hope one day that some of the things you do to your car dont backfire as upto now i think youve been extremly lucky

I'm one of those ppl. Not all MODS work. Most do thou.
Bottom line is, when modding a car you should ALWAYS do one MOD at a time, especially when it comes to suspension components. Of course, if it's a Spring/shock combo or Remap + exhaust system, then that's very different because those parts have been trialled and tested to death and they are known to be sound.

[p fandango]

what i can't understand, is how can a thread on a simple thing like this go on for 6 pages. No wonder its getting depressing on here

i swear some people on here think they could teach Adrian Newey a thing or 2

[LeeT5]

What James should do is........(lets all sing a song).....:band:

"STOP! In the name of love, before you break your car"...Think it ooh, ohhver. Think it ohh woah..ver!! STOP in the name of Love James!"

[graemewelch]

That's an interesting comment! How can you not think much of them?? It's a well known fact that on a Turbo charged car, decatting the exhaust makes a huge difference - mainly allowing the turbo to spool up quicker and a notable difference in turbo lag. Being as the manufacturers of motorcar parts have to be seen to be making a conservative effort in saving the planet, some bright spark invented 'Race Catalysts'!
Why might that be?? (For those that don't know) - its because Decatting an exhaust DOES make a difference and therefore, having a race cat not only improves performance but saves the planet too! As well as keeping the MOT tester happy and allowing your car to be road legal.


Its james way of having a dig at me. Ive read posts that say he wa ts a 3" downpipe. But cause i dont agree with fitting black bushes alround he gose all imature and has a sly dig.

[p fandango]

What James should do is........(lets all sing a song).....:band:

"STOP! In the name of love, before you break your car"...Think it ooh, ohhver. Think it ohh woah..ver!! STOP in the name of Love James!"
He's gone for a harder compound bush. Believe it or not the world isn't going to end because of it, get over it

[V70 Graham]

One things for sure, we'll all know this time tomorrow, I'm sure James will be honest and tell us truthfully what he thinks.

[claymore]

He's gone for a harder compound bush. Believe it or not the world isn't going to end because of it, get over it

as long as the car doesn't drive so harsh that it hops across the road on a corner into the path of another car, I was under the impression that black powerflex was for track use, I wouldn't like to use them on a road car without any supporting mods.

EDIT:, off the powerflex web site "For the ultimate in performance Powerflex introduce The Black Series. a new range of bushes developed for Race, Rally and Circuit use."

[p fandango]

as long as the car doesn't drive so harsh that it hops across the road on a corner into the path of another car, I was under the impression that black powerflex was for track use, I wouldn't like to use them on a road car without any supporting mods.
as no one has used them on the road yet theirs no evidence it will have any adverse effect on harshness/ride (as the main ride comfort is determined by the springs & shocks) so can't see it being any unsafer than any other modification on a car. Especially a home done modification as no one knows how different combinations of components will react with each other

[claymore]

as no one has used them on the road yet theirs no evidence it will have any adverse effect on harshness/ride (as the main ride comfort is determined by the springs & shocks) so can't see it being any unsafer than any other modification on a car. Especially a home done modification as no one knows how different combinations of components will react with each other

having seen videos of James's car as it crashes and bangs along the road with the suspension on it at the moment, I can only imagine what effect it will have on his car....lol

[Harvey]

I think the only difference will be the noise & vibrations that will make it into the cabin.and not much more.

[Harvey]

i swear some people on here think they could teach Adrian Newey a thing or 2

Just to say the redbull's looked a bit better in Q1 today !.

[M-R-P]

Time to add my two penneth...

James has softer springs than my car and lower quality shocks. His car is almost identical to mine suspension wise. My car has standard poly front bushes and mayle rear bushes which, after fitting both mine and James's bushes and locking them in a vice and flexing said bushes to test their flexibility, I can confidently say there's not much in it. The black bush is definitely harder but not much - it's not like they're milled aluminium.

I fitted all my mods individually and can tell you exactly what does what and how much and, at the very worst, James's car will be noisier on the road and have a shaky steering wheel on rough roads.

To say it crashes about from just watching a couple of videos isn't really fair, if I fitted a camera the same way James fitted his, it'll look a lot worse.

I'll have a ride in James's car before I fit the new wishbones and of course, be there for the test drive so rest assured, I'll give a detailed and honest review of the change in ride quality.

More noise, possibly more vibration. That's it, that's my educated prediction.

I don't know anybody who's actually tried and tested this bush configuration, and as someone who has tested previously unavailable bushes, I would like to know how they turn out before I go telling James he's a wally for wanting to fit them. So come on guys, calm it down a bit please.

[Harvey]

Just to ask what size tyres-rims are on James car, smaller rims = better / softer ride.

[M-R-P]

Just to ask what size tyres-rims are on James car, smaller rims = better / softer ride.
225x45x17 Ameltheas, same as mine Harv.

[graemewelch]

i dont htink the black wishbone bushes will be that harsh, but we all know that all black engine mounts will be a silly move.

[M-R-P]

i dont htink the black wishbone bushes will be that harsh, but we all know that all black engine mounts will be a silly move.

But not a lot of people know that fitting the powerflex strut brace tensioners, reduces the engine vibration caused by fitting poly engine mounts :)

Part of the function of forums is to help rectify problems when they occur, not just tell people what they should or shouldn't do. they might like having their nuts jiggled :)

[graemewelch]

Yeah but whats the point when people cant take things onboard. Advice is just that. Spitting your dummy out and is just childish. Theres a load of hear say on hear but also some good advise if your prepared to wade through all the waffle.

[JamesT5]

i dont htink the black wishbone bushes will be that harsh, but we all know that all black engine mounts will be a silly move.

Actually, having now completely Powerflexed my top engine mount assembly with every available Powerflex Black Bushing available, I can say I'm genuinely happy with the way it feels and aside from increased dash vibration which would happen with any grade of Powerflex, I love the feeling of the car and am quite comfortable with the comfort level. On a run, even at 30mph, I don't notice any vibration from the Black bushes and that's the honest truth.

[JamesT5]

Can I just say, those who are showing support for me here, thank you, you know who you are.

For the minority that seem to want to hack me to death, do you really think the world is going to end when these bushes are fitted because it's actually quite comical reading some of the comments. The way you are talking, you'd think my car was going to take off and cause an RTA every time I drive over a Cats eye. :hilarious

For those of you think my bushes are too hard, I have some good news for you. I've written to Powerflex about their up and coming 'Powerflex Pink' range of bushes, these will be designed for Monster Trucks but they plan to bring out a range for the V70, S60 and S80 along with the V70 P1 and 850 models. They're way softer than the yellow range so when the truck comes down hard the driver doesn't get whiplash. Should be good and they'll look great as well....

:hihi: :wavey:

[stribo]

But not a lot of people know that fitting the powerflex strut brace tensioners, reduces the engine vibration caused by fitting poly engine mounts :)

Part of the function of forums is to help rectify problems when they occur, not just tell people what they should or shouldn't do. they might like having their nuts jiggled :)

That's a bit of a reactive view, I think most people are being proactive, and trying to avoid problems before they occur. For my part, I think all that'll happen is they'll be more road noise, more vibration through the steering, and it won't transform the handling the way James thinks it will. On the upside the steering should feel sharper.

[stephenevans99]

.... do you really think the world is going to end when these bushes are fitted because it's actually quite comical reading some of the comments.

I'm holding onto this months mortgage payment - JUST IN CASE ;)

[Harvey]

James hope you have a good run down south today & the work goes to plan.

[p fandango]

Yeah but whats the point when people cant take things onboard. Advice is just that. Spitting your dummy out and is just childish. Theres a load of hear say on hear but also some good advise if your prepared to wade through all the waffle.
if your "advice" was actually based on anything, such as having tried them then i could understand all the anti-black comments. To me the advice on how stupid it is to fit Black bushes is in the same league as the comments about "how it'll be too harsh & uncomfortable", different people want different things from there car & different people can tolerate different conditions & may be quite happy with it

[stribo]

if your "advice" was actually based on anything, such as having tried them then i could understand all the anti-black comments. To me the advice on how stupid it is to fit Black bushes is in the same league as the comments about "how it'll be too harsh & uncomfortable", different people want different things from there car & different people can tolerate different conditions & may be quite happy with it

It's a bit harsh to call him a racist. ;)

[claymore]

if your "advice" was actually based on anything, such as having tried them then i could understand all the anti-black comments. To me the advice on how stupid it is to fit Black bushes is in the same league as the comments about "how it'll be too harsh & uncomfortable", different people want different things from there car & different people can tolerate different conditions & may be quite happy with it

To me it just seems a very strange sequence of modifying, if I wanted to improve my handeling I would start with a strut brace then probably uprated dampers and perhaps a little lowering, then probably bushes (but ones suitable for fast road)

[Harvey]

To me it just seems a very strange sequence of modifying, if I wanted to improve my handeling I would start with a strut brace then probably uprated dampers and perhaps a little lowering, then probably bushes (but ones suitable for fast road)

I guess the main reason to change them is due to MOT is around the corner and they are in a poor condition (wishbones that is).

[M-R-P]

if your "advice" was actually based on anything, such as having tried them then i could understand all the anti-black comments. To me the advice on how stupid it is to fit Black bushes is in the same league as the comments about "how it'll be too harsh & uncomfortable", different people want different things from there car & different people can tolerate different conditions & may be quite happy with it

Harsh and uncomfortable... try Apex yellow springs on a P2 - now that ruins the ride. I'm pretty sure (keep in mind I've now fitted pretty much every type of upgraded bush to P2 wishbones) that James's car will still be more comfortable than mine.

It's been interesting reading the various reactions to this thread, but most of the negative stuff is purely based on reading the blurb on the powerflex ad and not actually experiencing these bushes first hand. They are a lot harder to fit and will transfer a lot more vibration to the car but I can't see it ruining handling, quite the opposite, the level of feedback and precision compared to the non-genuine rubber bushes he has now, will be nothing but positive.

Let's see what the day brings... :)

[V70 Graham]

Have a good day mate, let us all know how you get on and your HONEST opinion of the results.

[M-R-P]

Have a good day mate, let us all know how you get on and your HONEST opinion of the results.

You know me, if I think it's crap, I'll say so ;)

[960kg]

Harsh and uncomfortable... try Apex yellow springs on a P2 - now that ruins the ride. I'm pretty sure (keep in mind I've now fitted pretty much every type of upgraded bush to P2 wishbones) that James's car will still be more comfortable than mine.

It's been interesting reading the various reactions to this thread, but most of the negative stuff is purely based on reading the blurb on the powerflex ad and not actually experiencing these bushes first hand. They are a lot harder to fit and will transfer a lot more vibration to the car but I can't see it ruining handling, quite the opposite, the level of feedback and precision compared to the non-genuine rubber bushes he has now, will be nothing but positive.

Let's see what the day brings... :)

I know i am P1 V70 but i have Apex Yellow springs 40mm drop and yes mine is firm (but not uncomfortable) but then i have 55 ratio tyres to help it out. I have the suitable Bilstein Struts on the front but use standard shocks on the rear as i prefer the rear to break away first!

I have read all about these black bushes in this thread and don`t wish to join the banter but for road cars unlike race cars one has to have suspension, not for comfort only but for grip, if the suspension does not give or absorb the correct amount the car WILL slip off a cats eye in the wet easier than one could imagine and with the state of our roads tramlining will be all to familiar and can be dangerous driving fast.

It`s no good saying i only travel between points A & B `cos the road is smooth!........this is rather a silly statement.

[Sperm1980]

Hi James

I have read this thread with interest, and totally understand peoples advice/comments. reading your previous posts, what you do as an amateur mechanic is great, and I applaud all that you achieve with your car.

A few years ago, we (who i work for) started research into KERS and TERS for heavy vehicles. We were rubbished at the time, but now, F1 has taken it on board, and it is already in production vehicles, and every other company is on the back foot.

What i'm trying to say is, its your car, your money, and if its rubbish afterwards, you can fix it. Opinion and advice is great, and well worth taking on board but its your decision and if you like how your car feels after the mods, then brilliant!

What I have found is everybody is an expert, but only you know what you want!

Apologies if I upset anybody!

Cheers

[soothingduck]

I have been following this thread from the start and watched it go downhill (like so many other threads here and all over the net)
I once posted a thread about a canoe I built from plans, it took about 10 months and over that time 6 people got banned over fluk hall (but it just got worse) and my the time i'd finished the canoe I was just so sick of it I didn't post a pic of the finished canoe and just never went back.

The fact is text is not the same as face to face as you can't read the other persons face ( a smiley just isn't the same as a smile) and people say things that they wouldn't say to your face (they will tell you different) It's just how the net is.
The net is like ice-cream (best served chilled):pimp2: I must admit to wishing m/soft would invent a vertual poking stick from time to time.

I am about to redo all engine bushes during my rebuild but have no idea which way to go and i'm not sure I dare ask now.

It's a shame really

[LeeT5]

For the record, I have new OEM, yellow, purple AND black PF bushes fitted to my car.

Regards the black bushes fitted to the wishbones, I think it's a great move because the steering will be more positive and not 'floaty'. Fitting black bushes here will not make one jot of difference to the ride quality per say, due to the relative nature of the bush in relation to the suspension itself.
However, quite why you want to fit black bushes to the engine mount is beyond me? They don't improve handling here and surely the point of a bush in the first place is to prevent metal to metal contact and therefore eliminate ANY vibration.
Fitting the black insert bushes to the strut brace does not increase or decrease vibration, I should know as I have used the purple insert and now I use IPD's alloy strut brace brackets (you don't get any harder than that) and after fitting I noted absolutely no increase in dash vibration.
Having the strut brace inserts will improve steering feel and sharpen the front end up slightly, so this can only be good.
What will increase vibration is the large top mount in black.
I remember having a purple top mount on my T5 and the dash vibration was bad.

[LeeT5]

He's gone for a harder compound bush. Believe it or not the world isn't going to end because of it, get over it

I was only having a laugh!

[V70 Graham]

No updates yet.....is that a good thing ?

[LeeT5]

as no one has used them on the road yet theirs no evidence it will have any adverse effect on harshness/ride (as the main ride comfort is determined by the springs & shocks) so can't see it being any unsafer than any other modification on a car. Especially a home done modification as no one knows how different combinations of components will react with each other

Had my Black series bushes on my car now for 6 months and I can concur, they are harsh. Luckily for me thou, having an R means that when in Comfort mode the ride is still soft but firm! Like that new car feeling when you jump into a new hire car.

Yes the main ride comfort IS determined by the springs/shocks but its the vibration of the tyres on the road hitting all the little imperfections and holes, cats eyes, cracks, changes in types of tarmac/road surface that is going to be transmitted through the wishbones/subframe/chassis via all the black bushes and ultimately felt by the driver and passengers. Now I'm not going to argue with anyone whether or not they don't care about the excess vibration and noise and yes they might well be accustomed to it and James, me ole mate, you may not give a toss about it, however, this thread will be cast in stone for future users to view and ppl on the net and I am saying that noise and vibration is NOT welcome in a car that is used as a daily driver with the missus and kids. What most of us are saying is by fitting Black series bushes at every available bush on the car will have an adverse affect whether James likes it or not.

[Harvey]

No updates yet.....is that a good thing ?

I guess we will have to see,they could be down the pub still.

[LeeT5]

Actually, having now completely Powerflexed my top engine mount assembly with every available Powerflex Black Bushing available, I can say I'm genuinely happy with the way it feels and aside from increased dash vibration which would happen with any grade of Powerflex, I love the feeling of the car and am quite comfortable with the comfort level. On a run, even at 30mph, I don't notice any vibration from the Black bushes and that's the honest truth.

Really?? Not true. I have PF top engine mount yellow and i get No vibration.

[LeeT5]

So James, exactly which bushes have you changed now then? Have you just changed the Wishbone and top mount? What about the rear of the car? No point just changing the front otherwise your going to put undue stress on the rear of the car.

[M-R-P]

Done.

What a ball ache! if I can give any advice for fitting black wishbones... Don't! It was hard as hell to get the wishbone in.

I managed to slip with a spanner and go chin-first into the brake disk, crushed my hand, fingers, and just about every moving part on the top half of my body has stopped working.

Was it worth it? Yes (but I'm not doing again)

The ride is tight and feels precise, there's no significant vibration or noise and the handling is very nice.

The black engine mounts however... I don't like those - very shaky.

James is on his way home, hopefully a full review will follow tomorrow. I did a little something else to his car today too, which I think he's pleased with ;)

I'm just having a nightcap (yes it took 9 hours) of codine, ibuprophren and beer before a shower so I'll stick around for a bit if anybody has any comments/questions.

[LeeT5]

Done.

What a ball ache! if I can give any advice for fitting black wishbones... Don't! It was hard as hell to get the wishbone in.

I managed to slip with a spanner and go chin-first into the brake disk, crushed my hand, fingers, and just about every moving part on the top half of my body has stopped working.

Was it worth it? Yes (but I'm not doing again)

The ride is tight and feels precise, there's no significant vibration or noise and the handling is very nice.

The black engine mounts however... I don't like those - very shaky.

James is on his way home, hopefully a full review will follow tomorrow. I did a little something else to his car today too, which I think he's pleased with ;)

I'm just having a nightcap (yes it took 9 hours) of codine, ibuprophren and beer before a shower so I'll stick around for a bit if anybody has any comments/questions.

Well done you! :beer::B_thumb: I do hope James is getting the wheel alignment done pronto?
I knew the black top mount would vibrate and honestly I don't see the point. No improvement in performance just annoying vibration - which could have an adverse effect on electrical items and components in the dash.
What was the 'little something else'??

So all you've done is wishbone bushes and top mount? What about the rest of the car?

[V70 Graham]

So your of the 'wishbones worth it engine mounts forget it' way of thinking, much the same as many members thought might be the case.

Shame about the slip/crush incident....hope your not too sore.

Hopefully James is happy and will post a full review tomorrow when he's done a few miles.

[graemewelch]

Exactly what i thought. Wishbones great mounts a huge no no.

[LeeT5]

The lower torque rod, from what I understand, stops the gearbox from twisting and keeps it in line. I can't imagine two Polybushes in there causing any comfort issues.


The lower transmission torq mount is there to secure the base of the transmission to the Engine subframe. This prevents excessive forwards/backwards movement of the gearbox which in turn prevents your gear lever jumping out of gear. It also enables smooth gear selection when changing gear between acceleration/deceleration. Without it, your gear changes would be nigh on impossible and if you did select gear it would jump out as soon as you hit the throttle.
Fitting poly here makes a big, big difference and you may experience harsh gear changes and or excess engine vibration.

[Harvey]

The lower transmission torq rod is there to secure the base of the transmission to the Engine subframe. This prevents excessive forwards/backwards movement of the gearbox which in turn prevents your gear lever jumping out of gear. It also enables smooth gear selection when changing gear between acceleration/deceleration. Without it, your gear changes would be nigh on impossible and if you did select gear it would jump out as soon as you hit the throttle.
Fitting poly here makes a big, big difference and you may experience harsh gear changes and or excess engine vibration.

Also stops the front lower engine mount from Being pulled around to much as well.

[LeeT5]

Also stops the front lower engine mount from Being pulled around to much as well.

Very true!

[M-R-P]

I don't know what James has planned for the back end tbh. And he says he's happy with the vibration. It's as bad as mine was before fitting the strut brace tensioners. Not the end of the world, just annoying.

I've not fitted any rear bushes to mine as at the time, all the bushes were in good nick. Recently however, it's getting a bit sloshy back there, so I'll be looking at sorting that lot when I get myself a man-cave and a driveway.

[Harvey]

I don't know what James has planned for the back end tbh. And he says he's happy with the vibration. It's as bad as mine was before fitting the strut brace tensioners. Not the end of the world, just annoying.

I've not fitted any rear bushes to mine as at the time, all the bushes were in good nick. Recently however, it's getting a bit sloshy back there, so I'll be looking at sorting that lot when I get myself a man-cave and a driveway.

Powerflex don't do any bushes for the rear end,for the FWD cars.

http://www.powerflex.co.uk/resize_image.php?image=Diag_2615.jpg&w=450

They list for the AWD S60 / V70 cars.

http://www.powerflex.co.uk/resize_image.php?image=Diag_238.jpg&w=450

[M-R-P]

a few are cross compatible I believe mate and I can always "make" them fit.

[LeeT5]

a few are cross compatible I believe mate and I can always "make" them fit.

Yeah, that's what I did. Just fit what bushes you can that the AWD car has on the FWD car. More of a choice with the R models thou s nearly all the bushes are the same for S60R/V70R.

[JamesT5]

I'd like to start by thanking Martin for his effort on what was a very difficult task that definitely required the efforts of 2 big blokes with a great deal of tenacity. Without Martin's help yesterday I would not have achieved the job we did as a pair and for that I owe him a lot! I'd also like to apologise to Martin for all the broken tools, injuries, blood, sweat and Agro that he had to put up with yesterday, and to his wife and family for taking him away from them for the whole afternoon.

As we inspected the car it was discovered that the lower ball joints were totalled, the gaitor had come off, grease had gone and they were an MOT test failure if they weren't changed. So we took a trip to GSF and another £63 out of the kitty for Ball Joints as well. I was a bit surprised considering the ball joints that came off were only put on, brand new, just 18 months ago! I think this was the cause of the 'dung, dung, dung, dung' sound when I turned the wheel towards full lock because with the joints being dry, there was nothing lubricating them and it made that horrible sound which has now completely gone! The only thing that remains is that rattle sound going over rough surfaces, a sound that hasn't changed at all since adding the Powerflex bushings and I suspect is either brake carriers of the heat shield tapping against the exhaust pipe on the rear. Anyway, back to the car yesterday and a photo of one of the old ball joints.....

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011610_zps8c81f9dd.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011610_zps8c81f9dd.jpg.html)

Martin had trouble taking off the drivers side ball joint out of the stub axle, the passenger side came off a lot quicker. To be honest, getting everything off wasn't the real issue although sliding the control arm out wasn't easy. The real issue was getting the control arm back on and locating the ball joint in to the stub axle - what a ball ache! (excuse the pun :D ) The issue was we had to jack up the hub assembly to get the control arm lined up properly to push the ball joint in to the spline but in doing so, the suspension coil/spring would push the hub assembly outwards (we disconnected the driveshaft to hub bolt and outer CV joint at the start). This meant that the splined hole for the ball joint would move outwards away from the control arm and we had to try and move the whole hub assembly inwards again using a trolley jack against the bottom of the brake rota, and then lever the trolley forwards using an large piece of angle iron for leverage. It didn't help that the brake rota kept turning and slipping off the trolley jack. This technique worked (just) on the driver side but the passenger side was a completely different ball game, by this time it was dark, we were both tired and pretty pissed off.

In the end, the second arm went in by leaving the two lateral bolts out of the subframe, the large (rear) upward bolt in (not tightened) and then using the angle iron as a lever across the top of the control arm with my weight on it, Martin managed to line up the ball joint to the stub axle, pop the 14mm ball joint bolts in and then after some more expletives :D , managed to get the two lateral bolts in to the subframe using a screw driver to line the holes up. What a nightmare!

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011615_zps7e7926b4.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011615_zps7e7926b4.jpg.html)

The 'scene' earlier in the day......

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011605_zpsc2d9afce.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011605_zpsc2d9afce.jpg.html)

The first control arm and Meyle HD droplink fitted......

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011603_zpsc02f712e.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011603_zpsc02f712e.jpg.html)

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011604_zps562ab687.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011604_zps562ab687.jpg.html)

The other little job Martin did yesterday for me, was he just so happened to have a spare injector refurb kit knocking about and decided to refurbish my injectors with new filters, seals and some strange plastic bits, the name of which escapes me but sounds like 'pickle'. :D

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011606_zps7c2466aa.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011606_zps7c2466aa.jpg.html)

The difference in boost and performance was astonishing afterwards. On the way home at around 11.30pm and about 10 - 15 miles from Poole, I decided to plant my foot to the floor in second only to be met by a big jolt and 'Pooomffff', and a car that was gasping for air. I recognised the symptoms within a few seconds as that of a blown off boost pipe and I wasn't far wrong either. The Intercooler to ETM pipe had actually blown off the ETM! I sent a text to Martin and the good Samaritan turned up in the Starlet with a new jubilee clip, fitted it and then I was on my way. Again, thanks to Martin for making the extra effort to come to my aid there as well.

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s562/_JamesT5/P1011616_zps5f084e81.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/_JamesT5/media/P1011616_zps5f084e81.jpg.html)

So my review of the Black Poly's....... Brilliant, outstanding in fact! I love the ride quality, the front end feels like brand new and is comfortable even on rough or bumpy roads, the car handles brilliantly around the bends and on the straight, feels totally solid and goes where I point it. There is less roll, especially from the front end as well and this makes cornering much more pleasant. I also noticed the car brakes better because the front end doesn't seem to want to 'stoop' as much as with standard rubber bushings. I would certainly recommend these bushes to anyone, but just make sure you have a garage fit them if you want to avoid a repeat of what Martin (and I) suffered yesterday. :B_thumb:

As for the engine mount bushings, I know Martin wasn't keen on the extra dash vibration but personally I am used to it and quite enjoy it because it reminds me of just how solid things are underneath and when the car is moving, the extra dash vibration is non existent unless the engine is 'chugging' away close to idle.

Can I honestly say I'm in love with the Black Series Powerflex bushes? Yes, 110% and I'm going to lobby Powerflex to bring out an 'official' range for the FWD V70, S80 and S60 because you know what, they've transformed the front end of my car in to something very very enjoyable. Despite the set backs yesterday, I enjoyed every mile of my trip home last night.

Not forgetting though, many thanks to Martin for the help yesterday. I can't put a price on it, honestly, you were brilliant! :beer: :B_thumb:

[graemewelch]

a job well done. i hope marytn now has a fridge full of beer. glad your happy witht he bushes. my opinion hasnt changed and i was right in what i was thinking. theyd be spot on in the wishbones but not in the engine mount but as ive said many times each to there own.

when doing wishbones i always lower the subframe. it takes the strain off the lower arm bushes and makes getting the ball joints into the hub very easy

[V70 Graham]

Glad your happy James......he's not a bad lad that Martin fella.

[M-R-P]

glad you're impressed with it James, quite a job that lol.

[JamesT5]

glad you're impressed with it James, quite a job that lol.

Yes it was, I also ache a little and to make matters worse I've been cursing at my rear droplinks this morning as well (see separate thread). :)